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Steve_ Shaffer

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The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« on: September 03, 2008, 07:44:08 PM »
In the Westwood thread that I started about 2 months ago, there was this comment: "Westwood was built as the Jewish equivalent of St. Louis CC" This has prompted me to ask about the courses of these clubs. My research has revealed only these courses are nationally rated:

Golf Digest

Quaker Ridge is 33 in America's Greatest 100 and  7 in NY state
Century is 20 in NY state
Franklin Hills is 21 in Michigan
Mountain Ridge is 14 in NJ
Hollywood is 15 in NJ
Broadmoor is 15 in Indiana

Golfweek

Quaker Ridge is 35 in Best Classic
Fenway is 60 in Best Classic
Franklin Hills is 63 in Best Classic
Engineers is 79 in Best Classic
Hollywood is 83 in Best Classic

It should be noted that Hollywood and Engineers were not originally founded as  "Jewish clubs." By that I mean founded as a result of the blatant antisemitism of private clubs of pre WWII America.

Clearly, Quaker Ridge is the top ranked course.


Have I missed any other ranked clubs?

Where do the remainder of these clubs stand?  How about these:

Sunningdale, Metropolis, Old Oaks, Elmwood, Hampshire and Willow Ridge, all in Westchester County, NY
Fairview in Connecticut
Crestmont, Preakness Hills, Shackamaxon and Woodcrest in New Jersey
Fresh Meadow, Glen Oaks, Inwood, Middle Bay, North Shore, Seawane and Woodmere on Long Island.
Philmont, Green Valley, Radnor Valley, Meadowlands and Westmoreland in Pennsylvania
Hillcrest and Brentwood in Los Angeles
Hillcrest, Twin Orchards, Briarwood and many others in the Chicago area.
Woodmont and Suburban in Maryland
Standard in Atlanta
Westwood in St. Louis

And the list goes on...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 06:11:52 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jed Peters

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 07:47:10 PM »
Lake Merced Country Club in San Francisco, CA is one of note as well--but was hacked by Rees Jones' firm (IMHO).

I do need to play it again, however....

That being said, I would have loved to play the Mackenzie routing/design back in the 30s and 40s....

Phil_the_Author

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 07:49:18 PM »
There is the Standard Club in Alpharetta, Georgia as well. It is a fine course that underent a renovation by Arthur Hills a few years ago. Everyone speaks highly of it...

Bruce Leland

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 07:57:08 PM »
Oak Ridge CC in Hopkins MN is a fine old course that should be included here.  I played The Standard Club in Alpharetta about 3 years ago and it is an interesting layout on rolling terrain.
"The mystique of Muirfield lingers on. So does the memory of Carnoustie's foreboding. So does the scenic wonder of Turnberry and the haunting incredibility of Prestwick, and the pleasant deception of Troon. But put them altogether and St. Andrew's can play their low ball for atmosphere." Dan Jenkins

Pete_Pittock

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:58:32 PM »
Tualatin CC near Portland
Glendale near Seattle
Richmond in Vancouver BC

Bob Jenkins

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 08:08:24 PM »

Richmond Golf Club near Vancouver is one of A.V. Macan's later courses and has been the subject of some discussion on this board. It would not, however, be considered a classic or even top 5 in this area.

Bob

Tim Gavrich

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 08:19:15 PM »
Belmont CC outside of Boston is a Ross course that was recently renovated, I believe.  I've not played it, but I've heard good things.

Tumble Brook CC in West Hartford, CT
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Lawrence Largent

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 08:23:26 PM »
Starmount Forest in Greensboro

Jason Topp

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 08:51:16 PM »
Oak Ridge CC in Hopkins MN is a fine old course that should be included here. 

I am at Oak Ridge.  Sometimes we are on state lists.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 08:51:34 PM »
How coincidental!  The Westwood CC near Buffalo is also a historically-Jewish club!  It has some lineage, traceable to Colt and Allison, but was also butchered by William Harries.  It sits on a non-descript piece of land but has a great 17th and a tricky 18th.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

J_ Crisham

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 09:12:06 PM »
Ravisloe and Lake Shore in the Chicago burbs were very much Jewish clubs back in the day. Not sure if they have opened up over the years. I have played with some great guys from both of these clubs over the years.
                                                            Jack 

Adam Clayman

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 09:21:29 PM »
From my limited understanding, Sunningdale in N.Y. is worthy of study on many levels. Not just architectural history, but more importantly, to study why ill-conceived changes got made and how to recognize that failed process and learn from it.
 
I would expect the recent work being done there will raise the quality of the golf tremendously. Whether it's recognized by magazine lists, or not.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike Sweeney

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 09:32:32 PM »
Rockrimmon by RTJ in Stamford, CT on the Pound Ridge, NY border and Preakness Hills in NJ are historically Jewish but I believe they have opened up over the years like many of those mentioned before.

Noyac GC by William Mitchell in Sag Harbor, NY was founded by a Jewish guy who the story goes could not get into any of the Big clubs in Southampton. However, he made a point that it was non-denominational.

Bob_Huntley

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 09:47:57 PM »
Lake Merced Country Club in San Francisco, CA is one of note as well--but was hacked by Rees Jones' firm (IMHO).

I do need to play it again, however....

That being said, I would have loved to play the Mackenzie routing/design back in the 30s and 40s....

Jed,

What is it that Rees Jones did that displeases you?

What was his remit? Did he ignore the requests of his clients? As I have heard, it was  some of the younger members of the club that decided to toughen it up. Do tell me if I am wrong.

Bob

Bill Brightly

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 10:06:21 PM »
You missed Tillinghast's Alpine (originally named Aldecress) in New  Jersey. Some of the most devilish greens I have ever played.

http://www.alpinecc.org/Files/Library/TheNewCourseofAldecress.pdf


Ash Towe

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 10:12:33 PM »
If you wish to go international, in Leeds, England, Moor Allerton was predominantly jewish.  Peter Alliss was the pro there for quite a few years.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 10:14:59 PM »
Bill,

Alpine is one of those clubs that was not founded as "Jewish club" but should have been included in my NJ listings.

Other clubs on the list are:

Brynwood in Milwaukee
Highland in Omaha
Meadowbrook in Tulsa

and more...
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Gavrich

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2008, 11:40:08 PM »
If you wish to go international, in Leeds, England, Moor Allerton was predominantly jewish.  Peter Alliss was the pro there for quite a few years.
Hartsbourne outside of London is also historically Jewish.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Jed Peters

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 11:52:21 PM »
Lake Merced Country Club in San Francisco, CA is one of note as well--but was hacked by Rees Jones' firm (IMHO).

I do need to play it again, however....

That being said, I would have loved to play the Mackenzie routing/design back in the 30s and 40s....

Jed,

What is it that Rees Jones did that displeases you?

What was his remit? Did he ignore the requests of his clients? As I have heard, it was  some of the younger members of the club that decided to toughen it up. Do tell me if I am wrong.

Bob

Bob,

It's not so much as to what he did there that displeases me (I think the course is a fine, fair test of golf) but rather displeases my "eye". I can tell that the shape was taken out of the greens and bunkers by a single play, and the "old timey-ness" and classic feel were thusly pulled out.

This was accomplished by (seemingly on my one view around the property) "reesing" up the bunkers (sharpening up edges, taking out "wildness", deepening them), pushing up the greens, etc.

I have no problem with his lengthening of the course--but the greensites--which you can see originally were fantastic (post Lock/done by mackenzie) and this has been lost.

My take on it was that years of neglect and "average" club maintenance (and undoubtedly by the work of Robert Muir Graves!)  practices probably lost most of the mackenzie that was there anyhow--and this necessitated the re-do.

While I think it's a great option, and a place I could play (and would play) whenever, just that I think that the club's location/site and layout lend itself to a more "classic" approach.

Regarding the younger members wanting to toughen it up, I played unaccompanied the visit I had there, on a reciprocal, so I can't speak to that aspect of your query.

Jed


John Kavanaugh

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2008, 11:58:41 PM »
I use to play a "historically African American" public club in North Chicago (Foss Park).  Are there any "historically Jewish" public clubs in the country?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 12:03:26 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Chris Cupit

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 12:20:43 AM »
There is the Standard Club in Alpharetta, Georgia as well. It is a fine course that underent a renovation by Arthur Hills a few years ago. Everyone speaks highly of it...

Phillip,

The Standard Club underwent a complete renovation of all its bunkers and green complexes a few years ago but the work was by Michael Riley NOT Arthur Hills.  It is tremendously improved and the competitors at the recent US Amateur qualifier held there gave it terrific reviews.  The mounds and "hidden grass bunkers" of art hills were largely replaced by some terrific bunkering and the greens are some of the best in Atlanta (I think the 2nd best complexes in the area ;))

Anyway, it's much more a Riley course (if you believe greens are the "faces" of he course revealing their character as a Tillinghast man I assume would :)) than a Hills one now although the routing was almost unchanged.  (#9 green location was moved considerabley but I am not positive about any others)

Matt_Cohn

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 03:32:30 AM »
Lake Merced Country Club in San Francisco, CA is one of note as well--but was hacked by Rees Jones' firm (IMHO).

I do need to play it again, however....

That being said, I would have loved to play the Mackenzie routing/design back in the 30s and 40s....

Jed,

What is it that Rees Jones did that displeases you?

What was his remit? Did he ignore the requests of his clients? As I have heard, it was  some of the younger members of the club that decided to toughen it up. Do tell me if I am wrong.

Bob

Bob,

It's not so much as to what he did there that displeases me (I think the course is a fine, fair test of golf) but rather displeases my "eye". I can tell that the shape was taken out of the greens and bunkers by a single play, and the "old timey-ness" and classic feel were thusly pulled out.

This was accomplished by (seemingly on my one view around the property) "reesing" up the bunkers (sharpening up edges, taking out "wildness", deepening them), pushing up the greens, etc.

I have no problem with his lengthening of the course--but the greensites--which you can see originally were fantastic (post Lock/done by mackenzie) and this has been lost.

My take on it was that years of neglect and "average" club maintenance (and undoubtedly by the work of Robert Muir Graves!)  practices probably lost most of the mackenzie that was there anyhow--and this necessitated the re-do.

While I think it's a great option, and a place I could play (and would play) whenever, just that I think that the club's location/site and layout lend itself to a more "classic" approach.

Regarding the younger members wanting to toughen it up, I played unaccompanied the visit I had there, on a reciprocal, so I can't speak to that aspect of your query.

Jed



I don't think there was any Mackenzie left there after RMG in the early 1960's. Jed, I disagree with you about the course - it's one of my favorites - but more specifically that Rees did anything bad to it. I certainly don't think he took any Mackenzie out because I'm pretty sure there wasn't any Mackenzie left to remove as late as 1996. Somebody on this site has a picture of the 1960's version.

Scott Sander

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 03:53:33 AM »
Broadmoor in Indianapolis is a real pearl.

Golf Digest has it as the 15th-best in Indiana.  That's a little low, but close.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 04:28:40 AM »
There was a thread some years ago about Jewish clubs and we discovered quite a few in the UK. Maybe somebody could post a link to it. I wonder if there is a protestant/catholic divide in Scotland or Ireland?

Phil_the_Author

Re: The golf courses of the "historically Jewish clubs"
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 04:43:54 AM »
Chris,

Thanks for the correction. A member had told me that Hills had done the work...

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