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Jay Flemma

Did Behr ever write a book?  Where might I find a collection of his articles or essays?  Did he build anything on the east coast at all?  Thanks.

TEPaul

Jay:

He built nothing on the East coast, only in California. Behr did not write a book, he only wrote a series of articles that I feel were all basically strung together in a sort of an "a priori" way to make a couple of fairly fundamental points and hopefully acheive a fairly fundamental direction for architecture and golf. Some of us think he did this because he felt golf and architecture was beginning to head down the wrong roads when he wrote what he did.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 06:29:49 PM by TEPaul »

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mr. Paul, I see quotes from Behr on Shackelford's blog on a regular basis.  Are his articles archived somewhere that a computer goof like myself might be able to find some?

TEPaul

"Mr. Paul, I see quotes from Behr on Shackelford's blog on a regular basis.  Are his articles archived somewhere that a computer goof like myself might be able to find some?"

MarkS:

You should probably direct that quesiton to Geoff Shackelford.

But my take is Geoff may've been the first in modern times to attempt to both search for, collect, analyze and perhaps think to write about Max Behr and his ideas. To me it is still something of a question re how any of this information should be disseminated. Just today I shot an email at Geoff asking him what I think are a few pertinent questions about this.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 06:47:39 PM by TEPaul »

Jay Flemma

Thanks guys...are there any internet links?  Or books of collections that might have his thoughts published in them.

Tommy_Naccarato

Jay,
You have a pretty solid place near you called the USGA Library. You want to know more, you can IM me.

But then again, with all of this stuff about me being so evil and rotten, you might just think I was sending you on a wild goose chase.

Kyle Harris

Tommy,

I'm kinda banking on you having an evil side. Otherwise how else to enjoy Voyage of the Acolyte while chainsawing our way through some abomination of a George Thomas renovation?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Several of GS's books have Behr quotes. Lines of Charm have quite a few. The USGA archive has alot, but be prepared to sift through alot to find them.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tommy_Naccarato

Kyle, Obviously whomever it was that was "Hacketting" it away to pieces hasn't ever listened to the album, ever!


Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'd simply like to attest to the fact that Tommy Naccarato is the farthest thing from evil and rotten.

Signed,
Jeff Mingay  ;)
jeffmingay.com

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2007, 08:22:27 PM »
Why Thank you Mr. Mingay! Your a gentleman and a colleague! (Jay-speak)


Alfie

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2007, 08:29:52 PM »
Jay,

hope this works ?

http://search.la84foundation.org/search?q=golf&Author=Max+H.Behr&Keywords=&btnG=Search+LA84&getfields=*&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&client=default_frontend&filter=0&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&partialfields=Author%3AMax+H.Behr&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&proxyreload=1

Alfie.

Alfie

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2007, 08:34:07 PM »
Nope !

Go into la84foundation.org and then search Max H.Behr.

Alfie.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2007, 08:36:26 PM »
I wish my two paisan friends would sit down with some 'redder the bedder' vino, and fogettaboudit.  Time to give it a rest guys... Tattaglia, Clemenza, the Barzini Bros, even Fredo... they are all gone now... its just time to take care of this 'ting of ours'.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2007, 08:46:01 PM »
Tommy - You just can't leave it alone, can you?
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007, 09:03:05 PM »
Michael,
I'm being serious, I want to help Jay learn something about Max Behr so he won't misquote the term, Line of Charm again, and again, and again, and again.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007, 09:06:39 PM »
Quote
But then again, with all of this stuff about me being so evil and rotten, you might just think I was sending you on a wild goose chase.

Your a gentleman and a colleague! (Jay-speak)

These comments should definitely move the conversation forward in a positive manner... don't you think?
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2007, 09:09:17 PM »
 Miller and Shackelford's "Art of Golf Design" has some excellent Max Behr select writings.  (and it's got pichers)
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Michael Christensen

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2007, 09:09:26 PM »
I thought I read somewhere in the Fazio post that the KING was done with my fellow Orange alum???  Guess I was seeing things.... ::)

TEPaul

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2007, 09:16:50 PM »
"I wish my two paisan friends would sit down with some 'redder the bedder' vino, and fogettaboudit.  Time to give it a rest guys... Tattaglia, Clemenza, the Barzini Bros, even Fredo... they are all gone now... its just time to take care of this 'ting of ours'."

RJ:

Of course I have no idea who you're referring to. I hope it has nothing to do with the on-going discussion about the philosophy of Max Behr.

"this 'ting of ours'"?

Any of you really want to find the "Keys to the Kingdom" (of truly understanding ultimate excellence in golf architecture)?  Any of you want to find and see the real Mother Lode, the true Promised Land, the Sunlit Uplands?

If you do, find, read, reread, then read again and come to truly understand the articles of Max H. Behr!!

If you can do all that you will be Free at Last---AND You Will THANK GOD ALMIGHTY that you are FREE AT LAST.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:18:53 PM by TEPaul »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2007, 09:17:03 PM »
Michael,
How is that picking on Jay? Sorry I don't see it.

Fact: Jay calls anyone that writes on this website that he would like to quote, "his colleague". What is so wrong about that, that I tried to add some levity to the situation?

Come on Michael, at the very least you of all people should realize that a open hand--especially when it comes to the subtleties of discussion of golf architecture should be at least pondered.

Peter Pallotta

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2007, 09:27:54 PM »
Jay
Alfie's already mentioned the only source I know of, except I get to it by going to the amateur athletic foundation los angeles (www.aafla.org).  If you got to the "digital archive" link, then to "periodicals", then to "L84 Foundation Search", you can select "American Golfer" and "Golf Illustrated" and then search by keyword/subject or author's name -- both Behr and Crane as authors bring up many articles. But I think those are only a small fraction of their output, and an even smaller fraction of their 'debate'...but I think there are at least a couple from each man that gives a good picture of their basic approach...
Peter

Jay Flemma

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2007, 09:57:08 PM »
I'll check the links shortly,guys.  Thanks.  Have we compiled a list of his courses?  How are they preserved?  Are any still as he designed them back in the day?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:57:26 PM by Jay Flemma »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2007, 10:02:40 PM »
I recall from years ago Michigan State also had some of his writtings online.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

TEPaul

Re:Where is the best place to read the largest amount of writing by Max Behr?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2007, 10:07:11 PM »
Clearly, I'm completely fascinated by Max Behr and his articulated philosophy about golf and architecture but do I believe he was infallible--do I believe he got it all right?

Not really.

He railed constantly against what he called the "game mind of man" in golf and architecture. He seemed to suggest that that mentality would lead to "standardizations" and a loss of "feeling" for the game and the ever increasing inclusion of a "scientific" and "logical" approach to all things to do with the game and it's playing field.

I believe that perhaps even 95% of the participants on this website are afflicted in various ways with what Behr referred to as "the game mind of man", probably including me.

So, no, as fascinated as I am with Max H. Behr, I guess I don't believe he and his philosophy was infallible----and I think that just could be a God-Damned shame!  ;)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 10:07:31 PM by TEPaul »

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