[George Pazin]

Re: the barranca on 10, this is my recollectin from the book, read maybe 7-8 years ago:

One of the days DLIII chose to go for the green. He hit it into a hazard, hit out, and then was challenged a few holes later as to whether or not he had grounded his club in the hazard. The ruling was that he hadn't.

I actually taped the Golf Channel rebroadcast of the highlights of this event, but, sadly, as is my way, I haven't even found the time to watch said rebroadcast to see if it's in there.

BUT THE LAST THING I WILL DO IS TAKE HUCK'S WORD FOR IT!

How cool would the hole be if the entire right side were a lateral hazard unkempt area like PV of the past?!? That is what I was picturing in my mind.

Huck, at 300-305-315 from an elevated tee, the only guy faced with a 40 yard pitch is past champ Corey Pavin. Even I would have a chip if I caught it clean (maybe a 5% chance, granted ). That is the essence of my question.

[Paul_Turner]

It's an amazing hole.

How receptive does the green have to be kept, to give at least a fighting chance of holding the green from the right hand side?


It's hole that could only have been designed inland IMO.

Paul

Why do you make that last statement?  I can think of at least one great links hole which could be made greater, using a few of the principles of Riviera #10.

BTW........

This IS one of the great GCA threads, despite the occasional and unfortunately typical mindless Barney bashing.  Great job Jeff!  And, yes, this format should be a feature of this site.  There is more real GCA in Jeff's first post than a month of the rest of us combined rabbiting on self-importantly........

Rich

Principles, yes I agree.  Like the 6th at Pacific Dunes.  

But an exact replica of this hole wouldn't work on links.  How could you hold such a skinny green from the short angle with really firm greens in the summer?  Plus the wind.

Which is why you never really see this type of arrangement on the old links...unplayable in the summer.

[Mike Hendren]

THe only difference being that with the bunkers I feel the golfer is tempted to either play at the green or WELL left of the fairway bunkers when ideally you want to be just short of the bunker far left which one must take a leap of faith and play over the front fairway bunker.  Basically, Thomas hid the perfect location visually by intimidating you with a forced carry and then another bunker there to grab your ball if you hit it too long.  Genius.

I believe this is the true strength of the hole and what renders comparisons with Rustic Canyon's 12th marginal.  If Plan A is to drive the green or left edge, Plan B appears to be a lay-up fitted between the area pinched by the bunkers - Jeff's middle green dot.  It would be oh so easy to push an iron off the tee and gravitate toward that large and deep expanse of fairway in which Jeff's yellow dot is located.  An apparent sucker-spot, especially for yours truly.  On the other hand, any lay-up slightly pulled looks like it could easily run out of real estate as the fairway pinches in from that side.

Contrast this with the wide open fairway of Rustic's 12th and any comparison is invalidated, in my opinion.  

I have never seen a hole that had so many ingenious features that are intertwined.  Notably, I had no idea that the left-hand side of the green, which looks pretty safe and inviting from most angles on the television falls away toward the rear so dramatically.  

Question:  Are the options visually apparent from the tee at ground level, or does it just get more perplexing?

MIke

[THuckaby2]

Re: the barranca on 10, this is my recollectin from the book, read maybe 7-8 years ago:

One of the days DLIII chose to go for the green. He hit it into a hazard, hit out, and then was challenged a few holes later as to whether or not he had grounded his club in the hazard. The ruling was that he hadn't.

I actually taped the Golf Channel rebroadcast of the highlights of this event, but, sadly, as is my way, I haven't even found the time to watch said rebroadcast to see if it's in there.

BUT THE LAST THING I WILL DO IS TAKE HUCK'S WORD FOR IT!

How cool would the hole be if the entire right side were a lateral hazard unkempt area like PV of the past?!? That is what I was picturing in my mind.

Huck, at 300-305-315 from an elevated tee, the only guy faced with a 40 yard pitch is past champ Corey Pavin. Even I would have a chip if I caught it clean (maybe a 5% chance, granted ). That is the essence of my question.

George, I understand fully the nature of your question.  You're just dead wrong, that's all.  Watch the coverage.  Watch how few of them hit drivers.

The tee is raised - slightly - but it realy doesn't give much help at all.  The hole is effectively flat.  You also don't get much roll - not in February anyway.  With all that in mind, you're talking a ball that has to CARRY about 285-290 to reach the green... and remember also getting it to where one has an effective chip just isn't worth the risk!  It's a pretty darn small area to get to, and it takes a very long shot.  Listen to shivas about the realities of carrying the ball 290+ - the man knows.

Oh, more can get there today than ever before - that's why the hole is more interesting than it ever has been.  But has it gotten so short such that most pros and long hitters just bang away with no thought, as you contend?  No way, not even close.  The misses are too penal, the reward is still very small, and it remains a damn long shot with this in mind.

BTW, re the mythical barranca, how you want your crow - roasted, grilled or fricasseed?

 

[Sean McCue]

The barranca is not on #10 never has been.  The barranca is in play on holes 1,2,7,8,11,12,13 and before the flood in front of the #6 green.

[Jeff Fortson]

.

[George Pazin]

Another bump.

I think Jeff did a long series on Riviera that was excellent, but I can't seem to find it. If anyone else has any luck, please bump it.

[Scott Warren]

Thanks for bumping, George.

I can't wait for the 5am alarms this weekend to watch the tournament down here in Aus.

It's a pity some of Jeff's pictures have expired. Here is one of the approach from pretty well between the green and yellow shot lines nearest the green in Jeff's graphic from p1 of this thread (pis is also a link to a thread full of pics of the course).

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