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Ed Homsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
I was a huge fan of Johnny's during his playing career.  Followed him for much of the 1989 U.S. Open at Oak Hill.  During the final round, he finally hit a terrific drive on the 18th.  Came over to the ropes, near where I was standing and said "I spoiled my no-hitter".  Priceless.  He earned the reputation for speaking his mind during his career as a TV analyst, but I began to lose my great regard for him because so much of his commentary seemed pompous, and often, not particularly insightful.  I did not tune in to TV golf broadcasts because Johnny was announcing, but did, occasionally, turn off a TV broadcast because his commentary was annoying.  He was a great player, with a beautiful swing. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Fix me egg.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
In an era of overused superalitives, we may forget just how great Miller was as a player. There are exactly two active players who have won more PGA events than Miller. Tiger and Phil.


I will bet even money that no active player will get to 25 wins. And it is not about fields. Go back to watch the 1975 Masters.


I remember the 63 like it was yesterday because it was magical.


We really do take too much for granted today.


Ira

John Blain

  • Karma: +0/-0
I was a huge fan of Johnny's during his playing career.  Followed him for much of the 1989 U.S. Open at Oak Hill.  During the final round, he finally hit a terrific drive on the 18th.  Came over to the ropes, near where I was standing and said "I spoiled my no-hitter".  Priceless.  He earned the reputation for speaking his mind during his career as a TV analyst, but I began to lose my great regard for him because so much of his commentary seemed pompous, and often, not particularly insightful.  I did not tune in to TV golf broadcasts because Johnny was announcing, but did, occasionally, turn off a TV broadcast because his commentary was annoying.  He was a great player, with a beautiful swing.
Ed-
I hate to let facts get in the way of a good story but Miller wasn't in the field for the 1989 US Open at Oak Hill. I'm guessing that you are probably confusing that US Open with the 1980 PGA @ OH in which Miller was a contestant.
In regards to Miller, has there ever been anyone who has referred to themselves in the third person more than good old Johnny? I won't miss that or references to the "fall line" :)

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0

Miller was a welcome change from the standard golf announcer pablum.  His background as one of the game’s greats gave his commentary weight.  A welcome relief from the standard “How good is that shot?” comment.


I got the privilege of meeting and playing with him at an outing at Champions in Houston.  I still use the driving tip he gave me on the range.


He seems to look a lot older in the past year.  I hope he is well.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:22:22 PM by David_Tepper »

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
I will be the contrarian...

He was a great golfer, and I'm sure hes' a great family man and gracious in person... but safe to say i will not miss his pompous and holier than thou commentary from the tower.  Good riddance!


Unfortunately he's being replaced by Paul Azinger, who is so much worse. I've never been a big fan of Johnny Miller's commentary, but I'd rather listen to him for 4 hours than have to listen to Azinger bloviate for 5 minutes.


AAArrrggghhh! That's he best NBC could do? Zinger is terrible in this role.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
In an era of overused superalitives, we may forget just how great Miller was as a player. There are exactly two active players who have won more PGA events than Miller. Tiger and Phil.


I will bet even money that no active player will get to 25 wins. And it is not about fields. Go back to watch the 1975 Masters.


I remember the 63 like it was yesterday because it was magical.


We really do take too much for granted today.


Ira


Bumping my own thread to raise odds to 3-1 that no active player will get to 25 wins.


Ira

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
In an era of overused superalitives, we may forget just how great Miller was as a player. There are exactly two active players who have won more PGA events than Miller. Tiger and Phil.


I will bet even money that no active player will get to 25 wins. And it is not about fields. Go back to watch the 1975 Masters.


I remember the 63 like it was yesterday because it was magical.


We really do take too much for granted today.


Ira


Bumping my own thread to raise odds to 3-1 that no active player will get to 25 wins.


Ira


I'll take that
How about 10-1 that it happens in next 6 years?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bumping my own thread to raise odds to 3-1 that no active player will get to 25 wins.
Winning is much tougher now.

And… Dustin Johnson has 19. He could get to 25.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,


I will take the bet.


Erik,


Disagree that tougher to win now.


Ira

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bumping my own thread to raise odds to 3-1 that no active player will get to 25 wins.
Winning is much tougher now.

And… Dustin Johnson has 19. He could get to 25.


McIlroy has 14. I think he'll make it to 25.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,


I will take the bet.


Erik,


Disagree that tougher to win now.


Ira


Dj has 19- surely he can get 6 more-could happen this year


you can't be serious that it's not tougher to win now.
Half the winter field was club pros in the 60's and 70's-look at the back end of the field vs. the front end in the 1970's vs now.
There are 50 players on the web,com tour that could win next week.
That and modern equipment brings parity to the fields making it harder for the best to separate.
Somebody's going to be on with their driver, wedge it well and make a few putts to go super low, every week.
Back in the day a great like Jack(or even Tiger pre ProV1) could separate himself with length and towering long irons-and amass multiple wins.


People trot out the argument that there were more great players 40 years ago-based on all the players with multiple majors.
Look at any club pro section-there are many players who win multiple championships because the fields are thin(the winner is 15 under but the cut is 6 over)-just like the PGA Tour 40-50 years ago-the 150th guy could never beat the 1st. If only 30 guys can win(as opposed to 150), you're destined to have multiple players win multiple majors due to a smaller amount actually able to collect wins.


But even if I concede there were more greats then, there are far more who can and do win now, thus splitting the win pie much more (Tiger blew this theory up for quite a few years ;)


If we're talking about Johnny Miller he was a genius with a golf club, but his putter betrayed him too often
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
The only three that I would add to the list are Jordan Spieth, Justin Thomas and Bryson DeChambeau.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 ::) ???


,
Broadcasting career ...outspoken, irreverent




but his legacy is those iron shots to 5-10 feet when he got hot , white hot
ball striker supreme ....even gave the Golden Bear pause to wonder if ?

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,


I will take the bet.


Erik,


Disagree that tougher to win now.


Ira


Dj has 19- surely he can get 6 more-could happen this year


you can't be serious that it's not tougher to win now.
Half the winter field was club pros in the 60's and 70's-look at the back end of the field vs. the front end in the 1970's vs now.
There are 50 players on the web,com tour that could win next week.
That and modern equipment brings parity to the fields making it harder for the best to separate.
Somebody's going to be on with their driver, wedge it well and make a few putts to go super low, every week.
Back in the day a great like Jack(or even Tiger pre ProV1) could separate himself with length and towering long irons-and amass multiple wins.


People trot out the argument that there were more great players 40 years ago-based on all the players with multiple majors.
Look at any club pro section-there are many players who win multiple championships because the fields are thin(the winner is 15 under but the cut is 6 over)-just like the PGA Tour 40-50 years ago-the 150th guy could never beat the 1st. If only 30 guys can win(as opposed to 150), you're destined to have multiple players win multiple majors due to a smaller amount actually able to collect wins.


But even if I concede there were more greats then, there are far more who can and do win now, thus splitting the win pie much more (Tiger blew this theory up for quite a few years ;)


If we're talking about Johnny Miller he was a genius with a golf club, but his putter betrayed him too often


Jeff,


I will concede that I have a high level of nostalgia for the athletes of my youth.  MJ, Ali, Pele, and Gretzky will always be the GOATs of their respective sports, the 1985 Bears will always be the best defense, and I will never witness a better baseball player than Willie Mays.  But I am not dead yet, and I do appreciate the transcendent achievements of Tiger and Tom Brady.  I also will concede that top to bottom, the fields are better now.  However, if you look at the quality at the top of the fields, a good argument can be made that they were better then.  If I define my "youth" as the period from the first tournament I really remember--the 1971 US Open--until I graduated Law School and entered the real world in 1982, the following players won on Tour:  Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Littler, Trevino, Green, Seve, Casper, Irwin, Weiskopf, Stockton, Jacklin, Wadkins, Floyd, Watson, Lietzke, Haas, Elder, Nelson, Morgan, Zoeller, Peete, Bean, Strange, Stadler, Barber, the Grahams, Crenshaw, Sanders, Goalby, Charles, and Chi Chi.  Now, I do not disagree that with thinner fields trading victories among them probably was easier, but it was far from easy to win when Miller won.  If you took the comparable period from Tiger's last Major until today, I do not think the list would be as impressive, and it would not be as impressive if you picked the period from Tiger's first Major until his last Major.  Some of the names that we do not think about as much such as Littler (RIP), Peete, Wadkins, Nelson, and Floyd for example were stone cold killers.


Ira

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Disagree that tougher to win now.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 

Jeff's post was a good response.

I will concede that I have a high level of nostalgia for the athletes of my youth.
It's clouding your ability to perceive reality.

MJ, Ali, Pele, and Gretzky will always be the GOATs of their respective sports
Lemieux was a better hockey player than Gretzky.

But I am not dead yet, and I do appreciate the transcendent achievements of Tiger and Tom Brady.
Tiger > Jack, and 14 > 18 when weighted for strength/depth of field.

I also will concede that top to bottom, the fields are better now.  However, if you look at the quality at the top of the fields, a good argument can be made that they were better then.
It really can't be.

I'm about a +1. If me and a few buddies from +2 to 2 handicaps play against a field of 100 8-18 handicappers, we're gonna win a lot of events. Doesn't mean we're better than Tiger Woods, playing against a field of full-on PGA Tour players.

Gary Player won a major - the 1959 British Open - at a time when American golf was absolutely dominant. The field featured only four Americans, two of whom were amateurs, and none of whom even made the cut.

As Jeff said, half of the fields in Jack's day were club pros. The PGA Tour hadn't even split from the PGA of America until 1968, and they still maintained a lot of control for a decade after that. The "top" of the fields had inflated win totals because they were passing the trophies around a limited number of people.

If I define my "youth" as the period from the first tournament I really remember--the 1971 US Open--until I graduated Law School and entered the real world in 1982, the following players won on Tour:  Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Littler, Trevino, Green, Seve, Casper, Irwin, Weiskopf, Stockton, Jacklin, Wadkins, Floyd, Watson, Lietzke, Haas, Elder, Nelson, Morgan, Zoeller, Peete, Bean, Strange, Stadler, Barber, the Grahams, Crenshaw, Sanders, Goalby, Charles, and Chi Chi.
You'd have never heard of some of those guys were they playing these days.

Now, I do not disagree that with thinner fields trading victories among them probably was easier, but it was far from easy to win when Miller won.
It was easier to win in the 70s than it is now, 40+ years later.

If you took the comparable period from Tiger's last Major until today, I do not think the list would be as impressive, and it would not be as impressive if you picked the period from Tiger's first Major until his last Major.
Because you're unable to see reality.

Nicklaus himself said - in 1996 or so, pre-Tiger - that the "good players" of that era would have been absolute stars in his day. And that was over 20 years ago.

What team is likely to have the best five basketball players: a team from a school of 100 students, or a team from a school of 500 students? It's a simple numbers game, Ira: the modern player faces multiple times the strength/depth of field as Miller faced.



To bring it back on topic, this is why I think Miller's true legacy is easily his broadcasting. Though I wasn't old enough to see him play, I can appreciate the stories about when Johnny Miller was "on."

But he.- BY FAR - influenced and reached many, many more people with his 29-year broadcasting career than his relatively brief playing career. He is a top five broadcaster in golf for his career while being nowhere near even the top five American born players.

His broadcasting career is his legacy. Not only because he did it last, but because he did it longer, it reached more people, and he did it better.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 09:16:55 AM by Erik J. Barzeski »
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Current Wins by player who have a reasonable chance.

DJ - 19
Mcilroy - 14
Jason Day - 12
Spieth - 11
Justin Thomas - 9

Outside shot
Bryson - 5
Fowler - 5
Pat Reed - 6
John Rahm - 2

Notables who didn't get there: (PGA Tour wins only)
Gary Player, Ray Floyd, DL3, Hale Irwin, Greg Norman, Ben Crenshaw, Ernie Els, Tom Kite, Nick Price, Furyk, Couples, Pavin
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 10:29:16 AM by Kalen Braley »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
All of that said, I loved and still love one watching Miller rip it and come out of his shoes.


Far better ball striker than announcer but he was really growing on me the last 5 years, and could actually (along with always interesting insights) poke a little fun at himself.


Coming out of the booth to beat Watson in the battle of the balky putters at Pebble was impressive.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
20 down...5 to go
3-1
What was the bet again?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
20 down...5 to go
3-1
What was the bet again?


"Bumping my own thread to raise odds to 3-1 that no active player will get to 25 wins."



That's the line.  Bet 10 to win 30.

Ira, I'll get in on that action for DJ.  How much would you like to lose?  :D

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
kalen-I know the odds given.


What's the unit?
The nice thing about this bet is I don't have to pay off until EVERY current active player is no longer active so I'd say that's at least 30 years out whereas DJ could close this deal by year end :)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff,


Your point about longevity is a good one. I am 61 so let’s limit it to me turning 75 (with luck). Charity of one’s choice. I will PM you with the unit.


Ira

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ira doubling down...he must know something...

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