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James Brown

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Dornoch #7 Update
« on: November 21, 2017, 08:48:17 PM »
Anyone got an update on the progress?  Have they started?

Ted Sirbaugh

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 09:56:06 PM »
James,

Here is the most recent update I've seen:

https://twitter.com/golfarchitects/status/931232099360825344


I'm not sure what else has gone on with it besides them clearing out some of the gorse and marking the green location.


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 10:13:38 PM »
There was a thread on this with pics a couple of months ago.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65027.0.html

Almost all of the new 7th hole has been cleared of gorse & underbrush. My understanding is it will take several years before the new 7th hole is ready to be put into play.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 10:17:42 PM by David_Tepper »

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 04:07:08 AM »

Interesting how the land uncovered by gorse removal which is of a very similar appearance as the land the present hole is on is described as 'amazing' where as the present hole is apparently so dull and boring. Yes, it will make a more spectacular setting but I doubt the quality of the hole or course will be improved. Indeed, this could open up a whole new can of worms with players taking an age to finish the hole.


Is the 5 hour round in Dornoch officially on notice I wonder!!!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 04:30:06 AM »

Interesting how the land uncovered by gorse removal which is of a very similar appearance as the land the present hole is on is described as 'amazing' where as the present hole is apparently so dull and boring. Yes, it will make a more spectacular setting but I doubt the quality of the hole or course will be improved. Indeed, this could open up a whole new can of worms with players taking an age to finish the hole.


Is the 5 hour round in Dornoch officially on notice I wonder!!!

Except...a view will be on offer....no small matter imo.  I don't have an issue with alteration, but then I trust the archie can design a good green or even damn near replicate the old green.  From a different perspective, I think a legger right will actually offer more variation for the course as there are ton of leggers left.  My real worry is the 8th.  While I didn't care for the tee shot, I did find it awkward and therefore interesting.  Mind you, perhaps losing an awkward tee shot at Dornoch is okay because there a few others.

The 5 hour round is already upon at Dornoch.  Most places where tour buses roll in is a place with 5 hour rounds.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 01:39:55 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 10:55:38 AM »

Sean,


I have no doubt in the ability of the architects to produce a good hole, at least their track record would suggest it. I do however doubt the course will be improved by it as a whole. If it is the views that they wanted then simply cutting the gorse down and keeping on top of it would have done that. Cheaper, quicker and much less disruptive.


The only real difference is that the hole will be played closer to the edge of the drop which might be more spectacular but I will guarantee you that the greenkeepers will not keep on to of the gorse on that slope leading to many lost balls. With the general wind direction and the prevalence of the slice amongst players the average visiting fourball will be looking for at least two lost balls during the play of the hole and of course the photo call on the tee or green or both will compound this.


I actually think that the changes to 8 will be the only real win in this scheme. My comment about the 5 hour round being put on notice was more about its demise as the new improved 6 hour + round moves into residence in Dornoch and all for a bit of 'golf porn' :-[


Jon

Sean_A

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 01:41:30 PM »
Jon

Half of Dornoch's appeal is golf porn.  The club is only taking advantage of what they have.  Its not as if money is an issue.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:45:36 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 03:26:52 PM »

Sean,


I understand that and I am sure most will not be able to see past the bling. I wonder what the cost will be however.


Jon

Sean_A

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 07:48:01 PM »

Sean,


I understand that and I am sure most will not be able to see past the bling. I wonder what the cost will be however.


Jon


The cost doesn't matter...the club is flush.  They could alter several holes and not dent the bank account. Now if they could spend some cash on clearing gorse...


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2017, 01:50:45 AM »

Sean,


I was not referring to a financial cost. Saddening how price tag and bling effect seem to be all that is considered but I would suggest that there is something more important that might be at risk.


Jon

Sean_A

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2017, 04:53:44 AM »

Sean,


I was not referring to a financial cost. Saddening how price tag and bling effect seem to be all that is considered but I would suggest that there is something more important that might be at risk.


Jon


Oh, well I am not convinced by your argument that the 7th is a critical aspect of the course balance/rhythm/flow.  The new hole is over the same type of land, so flat. A legger right gets in the act which if anything helps variety.  I am far more concerned about the knock on effect for 8. It still isn't clear to me how that drive will look.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2017, 11:34:56 AM »

Sean,


it will dogleg to the left like majority on the course. Have you actually looked at the land? What 7 does to add to the variety of the course is one of the few straight away holes. One of the few holes that has subtle contours. One of the few holes that play level along the length. One of the few greens that are lie of the land not perched. One of the few two shotters that require two big shots. One of the few holes that does not rely heavily on bling to impress. Removing it will certainly mean losing some of these characteristics though not all but will replace them with things Dornoch already possesses in abundance. Being asked a good question is interesting and fun. Being asked the same good question over and over again can become tedious.


Jon

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 06:18:20 PM »

Sean,


it will dogleg to the left like majority on the course. Have you actually looked at the land? What 7 does to add to the variety of the course is one of the few straight away holes. One of the few holes that has subtle contours. One of the few holes that play level along the length. One of the few greens that are lie of the land not perched. One of the few two shotters that require two big shots. One of the few holes that does not rely heavily on bling to impress. Removing it will certainly mean losing some of these characteristics though not all but will replace them with things Dornoch already possesses in abundance. Being asked a good question is interesting and fun. Being asked the same good question over and over again can become tedious.


Jon


Jon

The land is the same, fairly flat...so no difference there.  There are plenty of straightish holes....1, 9, 10 & 15...no great loss there. The green can be replicated or made better and kept lie of the land.  The length/difficulty can be retained.  I was under the impression the hole was legging right...toward the water.  It seems like you are arguing just to argue  8)  Its not as if the 7th is precious in any way.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:27:08 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Rich Goodale

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2017, 08:22:16 PM »
The 7th at Dornoch is in fact very precious to many active players and observers-even a few precious critics-for many reasons, all of which have been articulated on this and other previous similar threads.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 08:35:14 PM »
The 7th at Dornoch is in fact very precious to many active players and observers-even a few precious critics-for many reasons, all of which have been articulated on this and other previous similar threads.


Certainly is to me.  Played Dornoch 10 Times and hit about 7 different clubs into #7.  And the green!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 03:59:29 AM »


Sean,


it will dogleg to the left like majority on the course. Have you actually looked at the land? What 7 does to add to the variety of the course is one of the few straight away holes. One of the few holes that has subtle contours. One of the few holes that play level along the length. One of the few greens that are lie of the land not perched. One of the few two shotters that require two big shots. One of the few holes that does not rely heavily on bling to impress. Removing it will certainly mean losing some of these characteristics though not all but will replace them with things Dornoch already possesses in abundance. Being asked a good question is interesting and fun. Being asked the same good question over and over again can become tedious.


Jon


Jon

The land is the same, fairly flat...so no difference there.  There are plenty of straightish holes....1, 9, 10 & 15...no great loss there. The green can be replicated or made better and kept lie of the land.  The length/difficulty can be retained.  I was under the impression the hole was legging right...toward the water.  It seems like you are arguing just to argue  8)  Its not as if the 7th is precious in any way.

Ciao


Sean,


No, I am not arguing for the sake of it but when something is written that is wrong then I see nothing wrong in pointing that out. Just by repeating misinformation does not make it true even though certain US citizens and self proclaimed golfing experts believe it does ;)   


So you do not know the land then so why not just say so? The general form of the bluff there is a long arc going left and having looked at the area cleared of gorse it is certainly doglegging to the left.


As to Dornoch having plenty of straight holes yes 1 & 9 are straight but 15 is only playable in a straight line if you can clear the mound otherwise it plays as a dogleg which is the case for the vast majority of players and 10 is a par 3 so I am surprised you did not add in 2, 6 and 13 to the list. Are you sure you know the course? ;D


Jon


« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 04:05:28 AM by Jon Wiggett »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 04:28:04 AM »
The green will be on the far right looking down to the 9th green 10th tees, so it will be a slight dogleg to the right, at the moment not all bushes have been cut down, the reason for this is we will be playing the original hole for the next few years so do not want to break through until we have to, it is difficult to see the exact route at the moment until this happens, we will be concentrating on the green site and green surround first.

According to the post above the hole is meant to turn right, toward the water...which I imagine is how the views are on display.  If the hole does turn left I am not sure that is a great thing.  But also if the hole does turn left I am not sure why Ricardo would say the 9th would be a big legger right....a tee near the current area would be very easy to keep in play.

Made a mistake about 10...meant to say 11. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 05:30:18 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 09:28:40 AM »
I’m confused.
Shirley (don’t call me Shirley!) the new green will be to the right of the current one, making the hole a dogleg right?
Clarification much appreciated!
Cheers,
M.


Cancel that! Forgot about the other thread:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65027.msg1550100.html#msg1550100
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:43:51 AM by Marty Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 04:16:26 AM »

Marty,


yes, it seems it will be doglegging to the right so my mistake. Having seen the cleared area of gorse and a sketch of the proposed hole which both appeared to suggest it going the other way. They must be using quite a bit of the existing holes fairway. Having said that, it still does not change the basic questions behind how sensible this plan is.


Jon

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 04:38:16 AM »

Marty,


yes, it seems it will be doglegging to the right so my mistake. Having seen the cleared area of gorse and a sketch of the proposed hole which both appeared to suggest it going the other way. They must be using quite a bit of the existing holes fairway. Having said that, it still does not change the basic questions behind how sensible this plan is.


Jon

Jon

I think the plan is sensible...a similar hole creating more variation and more views...what isn't sensible about this if finance isn't an issue?  I can understand not liking the idea, but not sensible? 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2017, 05:53:27 AM »
Sean didn’t Tralee manage to spend €1m on the 9th? Deep pockets can become shallow very quickly. 
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2017, 08:08:15 AM »
Chappers

Tralee ain't Dornoch.  That said, I wouldn't necessarily be in favour of #7 changes if I were a member of Dornoch, but I do think the concept has merit.  I would rather see the gorse cleared and the clubhouse upgraded.  As a visitor...for sure...the changes are positive. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2017, 12:33:02 PM »

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Sean.


I can't see where the extra variation is if the hole is similar nor why it is sensible to spend money just because 'you can afford it'. Funny how if you were a member you would like it less yet as a visitor your in favour. I guess it is a question of bling over substance. I wonder if this is the same reason for your doubts about the changes to 8 designed to make taking on the bluff more challenging. 11th a straight hole?


Jon

Sean_A

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Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2017, 12:53:44 PM »

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Sean.


I can't see where the extra variation is if the hole is similar nor why it is sensible to spend money just because 'you can afford it'. Funny how if you were a member you would like it less yet as a visitor your in favour. I guess it is a question of bling over substance. I wonder if this is the same reason for your doubts about the changes to 8 designed to make taking on the bluff more challenging. 11th a straight hole?


Jon

Well, I spose if the club were to offer a year or two with no dues some money in the bank could be spent.  Otherwise....the club is collecting money...the question must be asked to what purpose if dividends aren't paid?  Having money can be a dangerous thing, but there is need to be precious over the 7th...at the same time I wouldn't say altering the 7th is a priority for Dornoch...it isn't the worst hole on the course.  Lets put it this way...altering the 7th is small beer when money is floating about. I am far from precious about the 7th...it ain't a special hole...or if it is, Dornoch must have 17 of the damn things.

Yep, 11 plays pretty straight...I certainly wouldn't call it a dogleg or curving hole.  You can hit a drive down the middle and it will likely drift back to the left. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 12:58:18 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dornoch #7 Update
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2017, 03:38:47 AM »

Sean,


you have to ask two basic questions.


1. what is RDGC?
2. Why/ for who are they changing the hole?


A straight hole to me is when you can stand on the tee, look down the fairway and see the green all in a straight line. If I stand on the tee at 11, aim a the green and hit it straight the ball comes down in the left hand rough. Not a big dogleg but one none the less.
Jon

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