[Mark_Fine]

I’m sorry but I hate when they use “fair” to describe a links golf course (or any golf course for that matter) and the Golf Channel and half the pros are using that term with Royal Birkdale.  Fair is the wrong word to be using when it comes to describing anything related to golf.   

[jeffwarne]

Painful to hear the F word so much.
Amazing that more pros don't relish sidehill and uneven lies as a way to separate themselves from the field with actual shotmaking skills and imagination.
Why would you want to play a "fair" course that gives 156 players an even chance of winning.


I guess the range I warmed up on this morning was really fair as the mats were really level

[Joe Hancock]

Painful to hear the F word so much.
Amazing that more pros don't relish sidehill and uneven lies as a way to separate themselves from the field with actual shotmaking skills and imagination.
Why would you want to play a "fair" course that gives 156 players an even chance of winning.


I guess the range I warmed up on this morning was really fair as the mats were really level

But wasn't the mat closest to the pro shop worn out more than the others? That's not fair....

[Peter Pallotta]

When absolutely everyone agrees on something, then I know it's time to disagree. In this case, two architects and one golf pro have already spoken on behalf of all of us, and of the smart/sophisticated  point of view. But what's wrong with the competitors wanting -- at least once every few years/Opens -- results that are (most and most likely) commensurate with the quality of their shots? The best golfers on the planet can certainly 'read' a golf course -- whether it's Birkdale or St Andrews or Sawgrass or Ballyneal -- much better than any of the rest of us can, and they can choose and execute the smartest option/strategy on any given hole and on any design more fully and consistently than we can even dream of. Can we honestly blame professional golfers for appreciating a course that fosters a championship test at its most fundamental/essential level, ie that rewards those who best manifest over 72 holes the very skill-set that is inherent in the game? In that context, "fair" might not be the perfect term/description, but it strikes me as a pretty good one (even if, as Bob C will point out, it's a category mistake).

[jeffwarne]

Saying RB is the fairest course on the rota implies there is something wrong, or unfair about the other courses on the rota.....


The neutered TPC is now "fair", if your definition of that is your ball in a lake every time you hit one offline-thus eliminating strategy, shotmaking and recovery.


I'd love to know of one event where the wrong person won because the fairways weren't "flat and fair" (Ok two.... Ben Curtis comes to mind )
But seriously in that case, didn't he shoot the lowest score on the same course they all played?

[Sean_A]

Can we honestly blame professional golfers for appreciating a course that fosters a championship test at its most fundamental/essential level, ie that rewards those who best manifest over 72 holes the very skill-set that is inherent in the game? In that context, "fair" might not be the perfect term/description, but it strikes me as a pretty good one (even if, as Bob C will point out, it's a category mistake).

Pietro

Aren't you arguing for all types of courses here because isn't playing all types of courses, holes and lies inherent to the game? In which case, "fair" is an aweful descriptor.  "Fair" really means little blindness (all there in front of you) and flat lies.  It is a not so subtle dig at the more adventurous designs (what few there are) a touring pro may encounter.  I can fully understand a pro wanting flat lies and full views, but don't understand why that is fair. 

Birkdale is a fine course with rich history and a lovely clubhouse 

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

This one's for you, lasses and lads!


http://www.golfwrx.com/460780/why-fair-is-the-wrong-adjective-for-golf/

[jeffwarne]

This one's for you, lasses and lads!


http://www.golfwrx.com/460780/why-fair-is-the-wrong-adjective-for-golf/

Looking for love in all the wrong places..


Nice to see that on Golfwrx!


The tide may be turning

[Kalen Braley]

Speaking of fairness...


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/jordan-spieth-reveals-one-most-213700001.html

[Mark_Fine]

Kalen,
Jordan's concern doesn't have to do with the architecture.  I am more concerned about the course being described as fair.  Not good!

[John Jeffreys]

I have heard enough of the championship going split tees to make the draw more equal or fair.

[Matthew Essig]

I think of an Open at Royal Birkdale as the closest thing to a US Open in the UK. That is not a negative. Each hole is blocked off by dunes, as trees do in the States. The fairways are not wide and you must place your drives in the correct spots. It is a second shot golf course. Aiming for the middle of the green is usually the smartest play. A couple converted par 5s to 4s. Par at the end of the week could very well win. The other course I see as almost a US Open in the UK is Carnoustie, but not to the same extent and is less fair than Royal Birkdale.

Or, as other people have described it, it is very "Spiethy."

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean - I just don't think it's as awful as everyone (even the golfwrx folks) seems to think it is. If, for example, being able to hit and precisely control a drawing 280 yard 3 wood is a legitimate test for the world's best golfers, and if two such golfers both hit that shot and hit it well and hit it to roughly -- but not exactly -- the same area on the left side of the fairway (let's say, the ideal spot/line), I think it "fair" that both golfers have roughly if not exactly the same approach shot left. Conversely, I think it could be considered "unfair" if some random hump or centre-line bunker or severe cant in the fairway meant that only a yard or two difference in where two smartly-aimed and well-struck tee shots landed made the difference between a routine par and a hard-fought-for bogey. Yes, that latter scenario too is "golf", and maybe even uniquely links golf -- but again, if every 5-7 years the pros play a course that seems to them 'fairer" than that, it seems all good to me.
Peter

[jeffwarne]

Justin Leonard opens the morning coverage (1:30 am) with "one of the finest compliments that players can give you is that a course is fair"


Heavy sigh....



uphill battle....(hmmm are "uphill" battles fair?)




update:5 minutes in I wonder how "fair" O'Meara thinks it is

[Matthew Essig]

Justin Leonard opens the morning coverage (1:30 am) with "one of the finest compliments that players can give you is that a course is fair"


Heavy sigh....



uphill battle....(hmmm are "uphill" battles fair?)




update:5 minutes in I wonder how "fair" O'Meara thinks it is

Or the entire first group playing the first hole as a par 5!

[jeffwarne]

2 of the first 5 have hit it out of bounds two others nearly out, one ball in the fairway out of 6...


Chris Wood pars one and has a two shot lead after one hole, and O'Meara is 4 back


Group three, two nearly OB and a third OB


hardly seems fair.....


I need to sleep but it's hard to pull away

[Matthew Essig]

9 players. 12 tee shots...

[Ally Mcintosh]

Can we honestly blame professional golfers for appreciating a course that fosters a championship test at its most fundamental/essential level, ie that rewards those who best manifest over 72 holes the very skill-set that is inherent in the game? In that context, "fair" might not be the perfect term/description, but it strikes me as a pretty good one (even if, as Bob C will point out, it's a category mistake).

Pietro

Aren't you arguing for all types of courses here because isn't playing all types of courses, holes and lies inherent to the game? In which case, "fair" is an aweful descriptor.  "Fair" really means little blindness (all there in front of you) and flat lies.  It is a not so subtle dig at the more adventurous designs (what few there are) a touring pro may encounter.  I can fully understand a pro wanting flat lies and full views, but don't understand why that is fair. 

Birkdale is a fine course with rich history and a lovely clubhouse 

Ciao

Funny Sean - flat lies and blindness aren't what I think they mean...


I always thought it related much more to do with predictability when the ball lands.


Could be all three of course.

[Tim_Cronin]

Whenever I hear a pro said, "The course is very fair," I know he's thinking, "I could shoot four 66s out here."


The way things have started, the first groups will be hitting 66 on the 16th tee. Or earlier.

[Michael Tamburrini]

Whenever I hear a pro said, "The course is very fair," I know he's thinking, "I could shoot four 66s out here."


The way things have started, the first groups will be hitting 66 on the 16th tee. Or earlier.

Once the rain stops, I'd expect scoring to be low.  The wind isn't that strong, the course is soft and they seem to have chopped the rough down. 

[Sean_A]

Can we honestly blame professional golfers for appreciating a course that fosters a championship test at its most fundamental/essential level, ie that rewards those who best manifest over 72 holes the very skill-set that is inherent in the game? In that context, "fair" might not be the perfect term/description, but it strikes me as a pretty good one (even if, as Bob C will point out, it's a category mistake).

Pietro

Aren't you arguing for all types of courses here because isn't playing all types of courses, holes and lies inherent to the game? In which case, "fair" is an aweful descriptor.  "Fair" really means little blindness (all there in front of you) and flat lies.  It is a not so subtle dig at the more adventurous designs (what few there are) a touring pro may encounter.  I can fully understand a pro wanting flat lies and full views, but don't understand why that is fair. 

Birkdale is a fine course with rich history and a lovely clubhouse 

Ciao

Funny Sean - flat lies and blindness aren't what I think they mean...


I always thought it related much more to do with predictability when the ball lands.


Could be all three of course.

Ally

Flat lies and lack of blindness are the basis for predictability!  So yes, I agree with you.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

Sean - I just don't think it's as awful as everyone (even the golfwrx folks) seems to think it is. If, for example, being able to hit and precisely control a drawing 280 yard 3 wood is a legitimate test for the world's best golfers, and if two such golfers both hit that shot and hit it well and hit it to roughly -- but not exactly -- the same area on the left side of the fairway (let's say, the ideal spot/line), I think it "fair" that both golfers have roughly if not exactly the same approach shot left. Conversely, I think it could be considered "unfair" if some random hump or centre-line bunker or severe cant in the fairway meant that only a yard or two difference in where two smartly-aimed and well-struck tee shots landed made the difference between a routine par and a hard-fought-for bogey. Yes, that latter scenario too is "golf", and maybe even uniquely links golf -- but again, if every 5-7 years the pros play a course that seems to them 'fairer" than that, it seems all good to me.
Peter

Pietro

IMO fair isn't equal outcome, it is equal opportunity.  Its called rub of the green.  The concept has been around for some time 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Can we honestly blame professional golfers for appreciating a course that fosters a championship test at its most fundamental/essential level, ie that rewards those who best manifest over 72 holes the very skill-set that is inherent in the game? In that context, "fair" might not be the perfect term/description, but it strikes me as a pretty good one (even if, as Bob C will point out, it's a category mistake).

Pietro

Aren't you arguing for all types of courses here because isn't playing all types of courses, holes and lies inherent to the game? In which case, "fair" is an aweful descriptor.  "Fair" really means little blindness (all there in front of you) and flat lies.  It is a not so subtle dig at the more adventurous designs (what few there are) a touring pro may encounter.  I can fully understand a pro wanting flat lies and full views, but don't understand why that is fair. 

Birkdale is a fine course with rich history and a lovely clubhouse 

Ciao

Funny Sean - flat lies and blindness aren't what I think they mean...


I always thought it related much more to do with predictability when the ball lands.


Could be all three of course.

Ally

Flat lies and lack of blindness are the basis for predictability!  So yes, I agree with you.

Ciao

OK, I'm getting pedantic here.... but I disagree with the way you are agreeing with me...


It's about what happens to a ball after it lands. These guys have such precision in their shots that they get frustrated seeing wildly differentiating results for shots that are hit exactly as planned. Do I agree with that point of view - no... But I see Peter's point.


It is not about their want to reduce shotmaking or options with their shots (in other words my definition of "fun"). It is about executing those shots with expected results, including punishment if they execute wrongly...


See my continual argument against the simplistic idea that different options / fun are directly correlated to big contour variations and quirk (despite my love of the latter).

[Sean_A]

Ally...I don't understand how we disagree, but thats okay, I agree with you even if you don't get it. 

Ciao

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,


This is golf!!  Rub of the green is everywhere .... yes ye hit a fine shot to the apparently fine position and find that " rub o' the green" has worked its magic!  This is what makes the game so compelling.  Yeah I love it!


Cheers Colion

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