[Anthony Gholz]

To All:


As part of a book I'm writing regarding the Charles Alison course (and its predecessors) of my home club in Port Huron Michigan, I have developed a list of C&A in NA as part of the process to put them in context for the members.  This process has taken years.  This post will have 5 pages covering three categories:


A) Still existing C&A
B) No Longer Existing C&A
C) Listed by someone somewhere as by C&A, but I'm not able to find enough evidence to agree with them.


My audience is primarily the membership, but hope that eventually one or two of you might be interested in the book.


The first 2 pages relate to 25 of 28 existing C&A courses along with the abbreviations I'm using to note the source of the info.
Thanks in advance for any and all comments.
Anthony "Tony" Gholz

[Anthony Gholz]

page 2

[Anthony Gholz]

abbreviation

[Jud_T]

Anthony,


This is great stuff.  Thanks for posting.  I had the pleasure of playing and touring several Colt/Alison courses with Frank when he was in town and it was quite illuminating.  Colt & Alison are still probably under-appreciated in this country.  Put me down for a copy.  These lists alone are a great resource.

[Phil McDade]

Tom Doak certainly knows this, but I understood Colt rarely traveled, or did not travel, to the United States after a certain time in the duo's career as architects.

[Wayne_Kozun]

What about Toronto GC in 1912?

[BCowan]

What about Toronto GC in 1912?

''This post will have 5 pages covering three categories:''

Tony,

   Great work as always.  Count me in for a copy.  Might have to sneak over and play Lost Nation GC in Cleveland next year

[Joe Zucker]

Ben, don't hold your breath for Lost Nation.  I haven't played it in 6 or 7 years, but the last time I was there the conditioning was so bad it was hard to notice anything else about the course.  I remember the routing was good, but not a lot of other details are fresh in my mind and I can't say if the course has ever been altered.  I would be curious if any one knows much about this local course that didn't always have a great rep in Cleveland.

[BCowan]

Joe,

   That is what sturges told me.  Said a house in middle of course was most interesting feature.  Westwood is suppose to be good colt/alison I'm told.  Have u played there?

[Adam Lawrence]

Tom Doak certainly knows this, but I understood Colt rarely traveled, or did not travel, to the United States after a certain time in the duo's career as architects.

Colt never returned to the US. Hugh Alison (he was always known as Hugh, never Charles) had a base in Detroit for much if the 20s. QED, any work done post WW1 was done by Alison.

[MCirba]

Tony,

Cool list and it's good to see your mention of George Thomas and the attributions in his book.  As much as anyone in those years he was on the scene and was well aware of who was doing what.

[Anthony Gholz]

here are the final two pages part of which should answer Wayne's TGC question.  Tomorrow I'll post a NA & PHGC centric timeline re C&A for review as well as this list.  It gives dates (best I can discover) for C in NA.

[Jim Franklin]

Didn't Doak do some work at Milwaukee? I didn't see that listed. Darius Oliver may be a good resource as these are his favorite architects, I believe.

[Anthony Gholz]

final page (of five) again all comments, corrections, adds are welcome.  As can be seen I've put together a lot of work from many people, of a good many years, including gca people who are no longer with us.  It is not intenede to call out anyone just cite sources so we all can see where I got the info good or bad.  I've been lucky to be close to Alison's Detroit center of operations so the midwest and especially the Detroit/Toronto/Cleveland area is where much of the work can be seen.  I'm especially interested in reactions to the "C" list below.  Does anyone have further Weston info that would change its location in the list?

[Anthony Gholz]

Jim you are correct.  Jeff Bergeron sent me some info last night re Milwaukee and I will add.  I'm out today actually playing our Alison course so I won't review/respond further today.  Thanks to all so far for your thoughts.

[SL_Solow]

I have information regarding Briarwood revisions if you are interested.

[Joe Zucker]

Joe,

   That is what sturges told me.  Said a house in middle of course was most interesting feature.  Westwood is suppose to be good colt/alison I'm told.  Have u played there?

Ben,

I caddied and worked in the bagroom at Westwood CC all of my formative years (from 12 to 23 years old).  I played at least 36 holes every Monday that I could.  It's a very good course, but some of my opinion could be clouded by nostalgic adolescent memories.  Pretty much all of the holes East of the clubhouse are good and all the holes to the West are pretty average because it rests on pancake flat land.

The first 7 holes are very good, particularly the 320 par 4 third that has the option to carry a cross bunker with the driver to get greenside and the Par 5 7th, which is a tight dogleg with an uphill approach over a creek.  The 8th -13th holes are back and forth without a lot of character in my opinion, but once the course returns to the hilly terrain the finish is great. The approach shot into 18 is one of my favorites, it's about a 150-175 slightly uphill shot over a valleyish area that plays right into the clubhouse.

Some of the doglegs could do with some tree clearing because they play particularly tight at the corners.  A lot of the time there is really no other option than a punch/pitch out if you find the trees.  The course also has a decent amount of elevation change for a residential area, which surprises some people.  If you ever get the chance to play Westwood, I highly recommend it.

[Ian Andrew]

I will update all the Canadian information when I'm home and have time.
But in short...


I have Alison's notes from Toronto Golf and will confirm a date
Hamilton had Alison involvement too.


Colt was involved in the construction of Toronto and Hamilton
Plan (Toronto) and working drawings (Hamilton) are in possession of the two clubs


Colt looked at Royal Montreal and the site for Mt. Bruno (on behalf of Royal) but never did much beyond recommendations
I'm fairly certain there was an Ottawa visit along the same lines (can't recall the club)


Missing is York Downs (NLE) - new course but lost in recent years to City purchase and turned into Park
Was pretty good too.


Alison had no involvement in St. George's in any shape or form.
Site selected by Thompson as part of a housing development

[MCirba]

Tony,

Much of the original Timber Point remains.   I would not classify it as mostly lost.

[Anthony Gholz]

Mr Solow: 


Absolutely send along anything on Briarwood.  and Ian thanks for anything you have. You can see I've "quoted" you from previous gca threads.  This list is only as good as the research I've done and more is from the contributions of others. My motive at this stage is to put my club, Port Huron, in the context of what C&A has done in NA.  I was surprised when I finally split the list into three parts that there are less than 30 remaining in NA. 


Re Timber Point you can see I note Frank's and Mark's review that comes up with 11 corridors and 16 greens sites still used.  If I stuck with my own criteria of "predominantly" meaning more than half the corridors and green sites still in existence, I should say yes.  Maybe we should consider it a composite course only playable in the mind of gcaers?  Could you actually play those 11 holes today?


Thanks. Tony

[Wayne_Kozun]

I will update all the Canadian information when I'm home and have time.
But in short...

Ian - the Toronto GC web site says "Colt travelled to Manitoba and designed the Pine Ridge Golf and Country Club."  Do you know if that was really the case?  Pine Ridge's web site said that Bendelow designed the course and that it was later remodeled by Donald Ross.

[MCirba]

Tony,

You may find the following useful from Mark B.'s terrific site, www.golfcoursehistories.com

Here's Timber Point compared between 1930 and 2012;

http://golfcoursehistories.com/Timber.html

[Anthony Gholz]

Wayne:


See #10 Pine Ridge under the Category "C" listing.  I note the TGC and other references.  It appears that PR may be a confusion between Old Oakes and Whitten's list.  I don't think either C nor A were anywhere near the site.


Tony

[Sven Nilsen]

Anthony:


Hopefully you can use these additional sources in your write-ups.


First, an April 1924 Golf Illustrated ad noting some of their work:

[Sven Nilsen]

Briergate (aka Briarwood)


Sept. 1921 Golf Illustrated -






July 1922 Golf Illustrated -

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