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Sean_A

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The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« on: July 31, 2015, 08:57:05 PM »
I have long advocated for the use of explosives to create the canvas for architecture.  The idea being to blow the hell out of site, grass it over etc, mold it a bit here and there and let nature takes its course for a few years.  Then design a lay of the land course over the site.  Well, I finally came across some great evidence that this method can be superb for achitecture.  On a recent trip to Flanders Fields I came across Hill 60, part of the 1917 Messines Offensive some 3 miles south of Ypres...which was the only real triumph the British achieved in Flanders during long years of fighting.  At Messines, General Plumer, under the infamous Genral Haig, was ordered to attack the Messines Ridge as a strategic gambit prior to Passchendaele.  The strategy for taking the ridge was to increase the ongoing tunneling efforts and eventually set off about 20 explosions in all using nearly 1,000,000 pounds of explosives....it was one of the largest explosions in history.  The strategy worked as the Germasn were taken by surprise and in utter chaos during a creeping barrage which was supported by tanks and airplanes.  The strategy worked like a charm and the entire Ridge was taken rather quickly...though the advantage of taking the Ridge didn't result in a positive outcome so far as the war was concerned.  The bottom line was the overall strategy was about who would surrender first, a war of attrition. That Germany would crumble first only became clear once the US entered the war and some million soldiers poured into the fray by summer of 1918. 


Anyway, one of the sites of the tunneling was Hill 60.  A small site which still has a crater some 25 feet deep. The surrounding roly poly which is sublime for golf is spoil from the explosion which now feels more like a park than a battlefield.  The concrete ruins are German bunkers.












It may sound odd, but it was heartening to find something cool on an otherwise somber spot.  As a non-GCA aside, if anybody has an opportunity to spend some time touring the cemetaries, battlefields of Flanders and Menin Gate in Ypres, it should be grabbed with both hands. Its certainly a weighty excursion, but well worth while.   


Ciao
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 09:09:31 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 09:36:17 PM »
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead.
Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 09:38:12 PM by Wayne_Kozun »

RJ_Daley

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 11:39:06 PM »
It is my understanding that the original ground used for Whistling Straits was a practice ground where they trained WWII pilots of mainly the TBF Avenger to come in low and drop the torpedo bombs.  While the transformation by Pete Dye was totally to reconfigure, recontour and restage the site, I believe the original practice bombing tract of land was also strewn with these sort of little pockets, hummocks and hollows left over from craters and such.  But, it was a toxic EPA level one cleanup site with what I understand was plenty of chemicals from the explosives. 

Thus, perhaps the idea of a carpet bombed land tract, allowed to set fallow for years for eroded but interesting terrain curiosities may be a bit impractical if such involves the residue of the chems in the bombs or explosives.  :-\

But, I get your drift Sean.  I'll opt for a sandy, gravelly site with drumlins and eskars left over from a glacier, or an ancient ocean floor, or an outflow of ancient blown out caldera..  ;)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Phil Young

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 03:13:31 PM »
During the construction of Kingsbarns one of the tractors found a, till then, unexploded land mine the hard way. Fortunately no one was injured. The coast in that area had been laid with numerous mines during the war as it was viewed as a possible landing site for a German invasion. After the war it was believed that all had been removed. Evidently they were wrong...

Tillinghast found the use of explosives to remove some obstructions to be quite practical:


Paul Gray

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 07:31:58 PM »
I think I've mentioned this before, probably on a similar thread, but when I first 'revisited' golf a few years ago and started looking at dull sites, it occurred to me that a military training exercise or two, preferably in winter, could do wonders. I'm very pleased then to see Sean actively giving some merit to this idea.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 05:51:36 AM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Pete_Pittock

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 07:44:50 PM »
The cross bunkering on 8 at Bandon Dunes always looked like a bombing run to me. I know that a Fazio blast at the Pronghorn course opened up a lava cave and changed the layout. Nearby, the large hump on  Juniper's 6th fairway is the result of not using explosives as they couldn't justify $1M(?) to flatten the area.

Carl Rogers

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 07:49:24 PM »
My experience in the world of building and removing rock in mountainous areas informs me that the use of explosives must overcome serious regulatory, environmental and geo-technical liabilities in almost any locale.  Their use cannot be contemplated casually.  In a given geo-technical area, the explosion could alter the bedrock enough over long distances causing the foundations of buildings to shift and thus crack.      ................ see you in court
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Doug Siebert

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 09:46:25 PM »
The problem with using land that has been carpet bombed for golf is that not every bomb detonates. They still find unexploded bombs in London even in 2015, and probably will every once in a while until after we're all gone.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Sean_A

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 05:24:34 AM »
Hang on folks...I am not talking about carpet bombing a place or using enough explosives to create huge craters.  The above was only an example of how the land can be formed without looking contrived or like any one of a thousand other courses. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

BCowan

Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 09:10:22 AM »
S,

   Great thread.  I agree with you completely.  I like you (i think) give flatter courses more props if well designed.  It's too bad it will never happen with all the lawyers we have everywhere. 

BCrosby

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 10:09:54 AM »
There is a picture in a Country Life circa 1912 of Colt dynamiting tree stumps at St Georges Hill. It was an impressive explosion.


The crews that built Athens CC (Ross) dynamited many stumps. The irregular landforms left by the explosions are still visible in several places.


Bob

Joe Hancock

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 10:33:39 AM »
S,

   Great thread.  I agree with you completely.  I like you (i think) give flatter courses more props if well designed.  It's too bad it will never happen with all the lawyers we have everywhere.

Ben,

Give a nutty enough guy a small dozer and he can build that stuff. Dynamite is dangerous, even more dangerous than lawyers. Dynamite has no appeal process......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Sven Nilsen

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »
Dynamite was used quite a bit back in the early days, but it was more of a necessity than a luxury back then, especially when trying to carve a course out of the rocky and treed terrain of the Northeast.


That being said, some guys did come up with some creative methods for building features.  Here's Arthur Lockwood using it to make traps and bunkers (May 1917 Golf Illustrated) -


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2015, 11:05:28 AM »
Hang on folks...I am not talking about carpet bombing a place or using enough explosives to create huge craters.  The above was only an example of how the land can be formed without looking contrived or like any one of a thousand other courses. 


Ciao

Aka the "monkeys at a typewriter" strategy -- in "Anatomy of a Golf Course" Doak gives three strategies for creating ground for golf (IIRC). One is have a bunch of guys (amateurs / know nothings? or is that Pete Dye's idea), run roughshod over the land with bulldozers.

Picking up more directly on your OP how about these pics of a Redan hole:







Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Carl Rogers

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 11:09:31 AM »
Relative to terrain, rock & elevation change, the course I have some playing knowledge of is Ballyhack in Roanoke, VA. If Lester, Wade or Tommy is lurking, I wonder if explosives were used there?


Would a comment concerning the practicality of their use be possible?
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Sean_A

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 03:59:18 AM »
S,

   Great thread.  I agree with you completely.  I like you (i think) give flatter courses more props if well designed.  It's too bad it will never happen with all the lawyers we have everywhere.

Ben,

Give a nutty enough guy a small dozer and he can build that stuff. Dynamite is dangerous, even more dangerous than lawyers. Dynamite has no appeal process......


Joe


I don't think guys can build the stuff in the photo, but you are missing the point.  The idea is to lay the course over the cool land, not build the course in.  If you build the course in tons of cool stuff will never appear because guys can't think like this...the formations have to be found.  The formations reminded me a ton of TOC. 


Ciao
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 04:03:44 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Bill Brightly

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 06:11:22 AM »

Gotta love Sean! Only he could see this and think "Fairway!"










Niall C

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 06:46:39 AM »
There is a picture in a Country Life circa 1912 of Colt dynamiting tree stumps at St Georges Hill. It was an impressive explosion.


The crews that built Athens CC (Ross) dynamited many stumps. The irregular landforms left by the explosions are still visible in several places.


Bob


Tom Simpson wrote an article for one of the golf mags or perhaps Country Life c.1909 on the use of explosives in golf course architecture. These days with all the health & safety issues I'd imagine it would ony be used in extreme circumstances.


Sean


I've played courses with that kind of terrain and I'm sure you have as well and personally I find it fairly wearing after a while. Also pretty awkward for mowing with inevitably longer grassy areas where the mower can't get to and generally where the ball ends up. Not ideal.


Niall

Blake Conant

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 07:30:14 AM »



Land disturbed from WWII, I believe in France.  Always thought that was cool ground

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 07:41:47 AM »
Colt’s ‘lost’ Southend Course is still there: Belfairs Park. The first 9 opened several years before the second which was blasted through an existing forest.  The first 9 features some fairways with rig and furrow left intact. The second 9 has flat fairways. Colt knew a thing or two.

http://www.belfairsgolfclub.co.uk/
Let's make GCA grate again!

Joe Hancock

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 08:18:40 AM »
Sean,

You underestimate me.

I didn't say anything about building a course. I think I can build "that stuff" with a small dozer, you are likely thinking of a dozer being used a certain (conventional) way....but until you buy up 110 acres of land and then hire me, we may never know!
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

David_Elvins

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 07:21:25 PM »
Interesting stuff, Sean. I like it.

You could easily leave some unexploded ordinances in there for the ultimate 'luck of the bounce' architecture.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

David_Tepper

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2015, 12:24:27 AM »
Sean A. -

I recall reading that the contours in some of the greens at Beau Desert are caused by collapsed tunnels in the coal mines well below the property? Have you heard of this?

DT

Paul Stephenson

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 05:43:08 PM »
You would have been close to a course that has incorporated such explosives.


Golf Club De Palingbeek looks to have some craters from blown First World War mines.   





A smaller one.  Oak Dump Cemetery is at top of the picture near the green.






  The course sits across the canal from Bluff Craters on the trench map from Aprik 1917.  There are rather large craters already marked on the spot where the 10th and 18th holes of the golf course now stand;  just behind the German lines (Oak Trench).


The very big one just across the canal is not there yet. 




« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 05:48:15 PM by Paul Stephenson »

Frank Pont

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Re: The Case For Explosives In Architecture
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2015, 10:33:48 AM »
Tom Simpson wrote an article in the early 1900's about using explosives in building a golf course.

I currently have a somewhat eccentric client who seriously wants to ONLY use explosives to shape a new golf course we are looking at.....

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