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Joel_Stewart

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"Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« on: June 12, 2015, 11:52:55 AM »
I just heard about this book.  Can anyone comment?

I haven't read it but it looks interesting. 

B.Ross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 12:02:28 PM »
i bought it tuesday night, finished it yesterday. loved it. really interesting take on the tour. strongly recommend reading. if you like the pga tour and aren't naive enough to believe athletes are superheroes who are angels, it's a great book.

Matt_Cohn

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 12:31:24 PM »
I watched his interview on Golf Channel. It didn't make me want to be his friend. Safe to say no tour player will ever talk to him again, so I wonder what his next career move will be.

Bill Seitz

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 12:36:54 PM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/9/flash-new-book-reveals-augusta-national-forces-media-to-take.html.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 12:47:32 PM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Of course Geoff was not a fan, the author took to criticizing Geoff personally.  I guess he is more used to being the shooter than the target.  However, I'm not surprised that golf.com tried to make the most of the inflammatory comments, considering how they chose to help publicize my book.

Note:  I have not seen this book yet, so have no comment on it generally.  And I doubt I'll read it, either.

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 12:58:09 PM »
Of course Geoff was not a fan, the author took to criticizing Geoff personally.  I guess he is more used to being the shooter than the target.  However, I'm not surprised that golf.com tried to make the most of the inflammatory comments, considering how they chose to help publicize my book.

Note:  I have not seen this book yet, so have no comment on it generally.  And I doubt I'll read it, either.

He criticism of Shackelford was pretty mild.  It's more the stuff that shows up in the excerpts about the US Open and Augusta that make it seem like it's a book written for non golfers.

Gary Sato

Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
Interesting that SI came out with a controversial confidential poll a few months ago and only a few people became testy.  Now Shane Ryan (an outsider) is putting his neck out and naming names and he's become a villain. 

If anyone feels that the pro tour, the players, the press that follow it and related entities like the equipment manufacturers are just a big generous love boat then they should look in the mirror.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 11:00:07 PM »
I bought the book and will begin reading it tomorrow, but what I gather from excerpts I've read and commentary I've seen is that the book is as much a check on the golf media as anything. It has needed an ombudsman for a long time, and Shane Ryan, at least temporarily, seems to have filled the void.

Also, if it does turn out that Tour pros completely shun him in the wake of this book, then they're just proving him right.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 10:13:56 AM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Of course Geoff was not a fan, the author took to criticizing Geoff personally.  I guess he is more used to being the shooter than the target.  However, I'm not surprised that golf.com tried to make the most of the inflammatory comments, considering how they chose to help publicize my book.

Note:  I have not seen this book yet, so have no comment on it generally.  And I doubt I'll read it, either.

I don't personally read books but would love to help a brother out. I'll send a copy to the first five people who PM me a word that rhymes with Shac. Please include your delivery address

Sam Morrow

Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 11:52:32 AM »
Is there anything about architecture in the book?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2015, 08:40:06 AM »
Congrats to all the winners of the Rhyme with Shac contest. My personal favorite being knick-knack, paddy whack. Happy reading!!!

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 11:06:18 AM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/9/flash-new-book-reveals-augusta-national-forces-media-to-take.html.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Ryan used to (or maybe still does?) write for Grantland and there were a few times he would write about golf and even a few times I seem to recall he was on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk golf. I was stunned every time at how little understanding Ryan had of golf, period. People can speculate about players and motivations and that's one thing, but he didn't seem to understand the basics of what tournaments are about, how strategy changes based on courses and conditions, etc. Based on that, I've really never been interested in his book project.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2015, 11:56:46 AM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/9/flash-new-book-reveals-augusta-national-forces-media-to-take.html.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Ryan used to (or maybe still does?) write for Grantland and there were a few times he would write about golf and even a few times I seem to recall he was on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk golf. I was stunned every time at how little understanding Ryan had of golf, period. People can speculate about players and motivations and that's one thing, but he didn't seem to understand the basics of what tournaments are about, how strategy changes based on courses and conditions, etc. Based on that, I've really never been interested in his book project.

Does he play golf?

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 12:20:43 PM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/9/flash-new-book-reveals-augusta-national-forces-media-to-take.html.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Ryan used to (or maybe still does?) write for Grantland and there were a few times he would write about golf and even a few times I seem to recall he was on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk golf. I was stunned every time at how little understanding Ryan had of golf, period. People can speculate about players and motivations and that's one thing, but he didn't seem to understand the basics of what tournaments are about, how strategy changes based on courses and conditions, etc. Based on that, I've really never been interested in his book project.

Does he play golf?


He did an AMA (Ask Me Anything) on reddit, and someone asked what his background with the game and writing about it was. His response:


Quote

[/color]As a kid, golf was the thing my stepfather put on TV that would steal time away from NFL, or NBA basketball, or all the other sports I actually enjoyed watching. I knew early on that it wasn't a sport I would play, either, since every time he took me to the range, I'd get angry that I wasn't immediately great. Once I brought my baseball glove so I could catch his 9-irons (the range was empty), and one slipped through the criss-cross webbing and cracked my head open. I remember being in the car on the way to the hospital, and my stepfather just dreading the call he had to make to my mom. I think 12 stitches was the result.
[/color]Slowly, I started to really like watching the majors, especially the Masters. By the time I was in high school and college I wouldn't miss them, and I absolutely loved the Ryder Cup. I begged Grantland to send me to the 2012 Ryder Cup, and they really liked the story I wrote from there (Google "Poulter's Cup," the formatting is kind of weird after the site re-design but it mostly is fine, I think), and I got to continue writing in 2013 for the big tournaments. From that writing, my agent Byrd Leavell contacted me about writing a book, we put a proposal together, Random House bought it, and then in 2014 I was full-time...I think I ended up attending 33 tournaments that year. So it was a bit lucky—my writing career had started with college basketball and baseball, and golf was a bit of a fluke.
[/color]As for playing, I took it up three years ago, and I'm completely addicted. I broke 100 for the first time this spring, and I'm really close to breaking 90. I had a great chance about two weeks ago, and just choked my guts out on the last two holes to shoot 92...I think I had two 8s, or something. Absolute disgrace. I'm playing in my first tournament, a flighted match play event, next week. My profile as a golfer is that I can drive pretty far, and my 60-degree wedge gets me out of a lot of jams, but I am just pathetic on the greens. If I'm four feet away from the cup, I'm two-putting. It's just a fact. I need to take a putting lesson.
[/color]

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2015, 01:56:25 PM »
I watched his interview on Golf Channel. It didn't make me want to be his friend. Safe to say no tour player will ever talk to him again, so I wonder what his next career move will be.
But of course none of this should be the concern of an author while he is writing a book.  If it is then you know you have a bad book in your hands.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2015, 02:00:43 PM »
Geoff Shackelford was not a fan.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/9/flash-new-book-reveals-augusta-national-forces-media-to-take.html.

Some of it sounds interesting, but at least from the excerpts that Shackelford posted, it sounds like the book was written by someone who doesn't particularly like golf. 

Ryan used to (or maybe still does?) write for Grantland and there were a few times he would write about golf and even a few times I seem to recall he was on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk golf. I was stunned every time at how little understanding Ryan had of golf, period. People can speculate about players and motivations and that's one thing, but he didn't seem to understand the basics of what tournaments are about, how strategy changes based on courses and conditions, etc. Based on that, I've really never been interested in his book project.


He's also clearly out of the Simmons/Grantland (see: Andrew Sharp in all of his awful glory) school of frat-boy, smart-ass, snarky, name-dropping school of journalism in vogue over there (meaning: Grantland). A website I still visit regularly, but interestingly one in which all the best writers (Molly Lambert, Katie Baker, Louisa Thomas, the sad-they've-departed Emily Yoshida and Tess Lynch) are women (Zach Lowe and Barnwell being the exceptions).

Peter Pallotta

Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2015, 02:10:56 PM »
What David Kelly said.
 
I don't know if Shane is any good as a (sports) writer, and the smart ass approach can wear thin very fast; but I do know that David's right -- and that most of today's 'proven' golf/tour writers (with the exception of Jaime Diaz and Lorne Rubenstein) rarely amuse, inform, entertain, or enlighten me. Maybe it's because they want to make sure they can keep talking to tour players
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:18:29 PM by PPallotta »

Alex Miller

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »

I did not enjoy this article by Shane Ryan. I am his target audience except I actually have an understanding of the sport of golf which he seems to lack (as do many of his fans). But fortunately for him his writing may be accessible to a larger audience just for that reason! He knows little and writes for those who know less.

http://deadspin.com/how-augusta-national-became-golfs-north-korea-1709794444


Actually I guess this was an excerpt from the book... so I guess you know if I'm going to buy it or not.

David Kelly

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2015, 03:42:35 PM »
Actually I guess this was an excerpt from the book... so I guess you know if I'm going to buy it or not.
Don't bother.  I got it for free and I'm not going to read it but I'm not really the target audience as its been years since I watched the Golf Channel from anywhere other than at a golf course.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2015, 03:51:56 PM »
I'm about a third of the way through the book and like it. He didn't write it for golf nuts per se - I've found it a little heavy on recaps of final rounds, but when it gets into stories about specific players like Bubba Watson, Patrick Reed and Jason Day, it's very strong.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Cliff Hamm

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2015, 04:33:31 PM »
 Have just started. Dislike Bubba more than ever. But I have become a big Jason Day fan.

Benjamin Litman

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2015, 04:46:18 PM »
My main problem with the book is that, like most culture these days, it caves to our ever-shrinking attention spans. At its best, culture elevates, instead of reflects, humanity. But more and more, we see films with five-second scenes and read books with "vignettes" (read: chapters that can be leaked as snippets accompanying a photo slideshow). We come away titillated, but learning very little. In short, I might like the book more if, instead of trying to tackle 15 different players in 20-page chapters, it tackled only one. Character development, in film and literature, is a lost art, and I'm dismayed when I see authors like Mr. Ryan furthering, as opposed to bucking, that trend. It reveals a certain laziness and makes me, at least, less likely to accept what I'm being told.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

B.Ross

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2015, 05:38:50 PM »
i'm his targent audience in age (29) and i'm a grantland lover and total golf nut. equipment geek, follow the tour, and clearly courses interest me if im a member here.


look, it wasnt the worlds greatest book, but you do learn a lot about certain players and then a ton about the ryder cup. i dont think it matters that ryan cant really break 90, or that he's in his early 30s, if that. his goal was to give you a picture into the lives of young guys coming up on tour done through the lense of covering the tour for a season. i think he did that and did it well. i learned alot about jason day, adam scott, ernst, dubisson and others.


also as i read it, at no point did i think he doesnt understand the game of golf. if were questioning his understanding of golf b/c of his lack of golf skill, know that numerous (if not most) golf writers who cover courses or the tour couldn't break 80 if their lives depended on it. 

Matthew Petersen

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2015, 07:19:26 PM »
i'm his targent audience in age (29) and i'm a grantland lover and total golf nut. equipment geek, follow the tour, and clearly courses interest me if im a member here.


look, it wasnt the worlds greatest book, but you do learn a lot about certain players and then a ton about the ryder cup. i dont think it matters that ryan cant really break 90, or that he's in his early 30s, if that. his goal was to give you a picture into the lives of young guys coming up on tour done through the lense of covering the tour for a season. i think he did that and did it well. i learned alot about jason day, adam scott, ernst, dubisson and others.


also as i read it, at no point did i think he doesnt understand the game of golf. if were questioning his understanding of golf b/c of his lack of golf skill, know that numerous (if not most) golf writers who cover courses or the tour couldn't break 80 if their lives depended on it.


I haven't read the book. I had commented that he didn't seem to understand a lot about golf based on his actual golf tournament reporting (commentary? whatever). If the book is more about personalities, that seems more suited to his skill set as a writer.

Daniel Jones

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Re: "Slaying the Tiger" by Shane Ryan
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2015, 10:07:07 PM »
I'm about 1/3 of the way through it... I doubted whether it was a good idea to pay $11 to download a bunch of dirty laundry, but that seems to be exactly what I did. I have no doubt there was plenty of research that went into the book, but it reads like a giant compilation of everything that's ever been posted on Twitter. 

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