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Pete Lavallee

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17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« on: May 15, 2015, 03:49:13 PM »
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Matt Kardash

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2015, 04:09:26 PM »
I am for it. The green was way too small for the shot required.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 05:01:38 PM »
Says they are going to sod it.  Sod it with what?

The other thing missing is did they build it to USGA spec and install sub air?
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Pete Lavallee

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 05:10:05 PM »
The article states that 10 greens have already been redone. I recall Tom Doak saying they are all rebuilt to USGA specs. I doubt they need sub air.
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"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Gib_Papazian

Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2015, 05:18:13 PM »
Having observed the degradation of the putting surface over the last 40-odd years, I am all for it. The buildup of sand over the years made it ridiculous and nearly impossible.

It is one thing to have a Riviera type idea with a bunker in the middle of the green provided there is an option to use the contours of the putting surface to get from one part of the green to the other.

However, watching Miguel Jimenez have to flop a sand wedge off the putting surface is just silly. It is about time everybody stopped pretending the 17th hole was mis-designed like that because it is not true.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 05:40:01 PM »
I hope they get it right!
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Brett Hochstein

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2015, 06:25:10 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 15, 2015, 05:40:01 PM
I hope they get it right!

Me too.  Ryan Farrow posted an old picture of it I'd never seen on twitter back during the pro am.  It was pretty cool looking--lots of visibility/size, and some good contour between the two sections.  Doesn't seem like that level of contour has been achieved in that photo in the article, but it can be hard to tell, especially in muted light.
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Gary Sato

Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 07:16:45 PM »
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on May 15, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 15, 2015, 05:40:01 PM
I hope they get it right!

Me too.  Ryan Farrow posted an old picture of it I'd never seen on twitter back during the pro am.  It was pretty cool looking--lots of visibility/size, and some good contour between the two sections.  Doesn't seem like that level of contour has been achieved in that photo in the article, but it can be hard to tell, especially in muted light.

Of course they got it right, they had Arnold Palmer overseeing the project and to make it perfect they did the work in house.  What could go wrong?

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Pete_Pittock

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 07:29:58 PM »
Quote from: Gary Sato on May 15, 2015, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on May 15, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 15, 2015, 05:40:01 PM
I hope they get it right!

Me too.  Ryan Farrow posted an old picture of it I'd never seen on twitter back during the pro am.  It was pretty cool looking--lots of visibility/size, and some good contour between the two sections.  Doesn't seem like that level of contour has been achieved in that photo in the article, but it can be hard to tell, especially in muted light.

Of course they got it right, they had Arnold Palmer overseeing the project and to make it perfect they did the work in house.  What could go wrong?


Gary,
They are working on 17, not 7 as seen in you photo
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Gary Sato

Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 07:34:34 PM »
Yes I know.  I was trying to have fun when 7 was torn up.

Here is 17, from the PB web site.

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Tom_Doak

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 09:34:55 PM »
That is WAY better than what they've had.  Kudos to Arnie, or to whoever did the work.
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2015, 01:54:04 AM »
Quote from: Gary Sato on May 15, 2015, 07:34:34 PM
Yes I know.  I was trying to have fun when 7 was torn up.

Here is 17, from the PB web site.



Is it the 10 year anniversary thread talking, or does that front left bunker from the angle of this picture look a hell of a lot like a rabbit?
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Carl Nichols

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2015, 09:07:28 AM »
Does anyone have before and after pics?
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David_Tepper

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2015, 11:56:54 AM »
Carl -

Here are a number of images (some real and some imagined). If you scroll down there is a "before" pic, but not with much of an aerial view.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2010/6/28/pebbles-17th-another-look-at-the-evolution.html

DT

P.S. Here is  a better pic:

http://www.caddybytes.com/Pebble_Beach_17th_hole_picture.htm.htm
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 12:03:39 PM by David_Tepper »
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 03:05:37 PM »
Quote from: Matthew Petersen on May 16, 2015, 01:54:04 AM
Quote from: Gary Sato on May 15, 2015, 07:34:34 PM
Yes I know.  I was trying to have fun when 7 was torn up.

Here is 17, from the PB web site.



Is it the 10 year anniversary thread talking, or does that front left bunker from the angle of this picture look a hell of a lot like a rabbit?

And a white rabbit to boot ;D
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David_Tepper

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 10:30:59 AM »
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Howard Riefs

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 10:43:36 AM »
A couple more photos from this thread in early May:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60959.0.html
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 11:33:56 AM »
Geoff Shack posted some grow in photos, as Howard notes above.  Does the bunker shape seem better in dirt and at ground level than from the air? If so, great, but the aerial above doesn't look like the exact same bunker shape to me as what existed before the sod.

Any explanations?

In either case, I think Palmer did an excellent job doing what needed to be done.  Of course, I liked their revamped bunkers in the last Open there. I thought the old ones were tired, and their new ones were traditional enough to fit in, but with enough extra shape to be a nice improvement.
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Mark_Fine

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 11:31:58 PM »
I was just out there and played Pebble and saw the construction work.  The caddie I had has been sending me photos including early on in the construction.  Yes they put in a sub air system and apparently built to USGA spec.  The bunkers look great from ground level (nothing like a rabbit).  The sod came from in front of Bing's house.  They must have been preparing for this there.  Looks to me like they did a great job with the hole.  Of course there will be no more trying to replicate Tom Watson's chip in!  There is a bunker there now!
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Rob Marshall

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 03:31:14 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on May 18, 2015, 11:31:58 PM
I was just out there and played Pebble and saw the construction work.  The caddie I had has been sending me photos including early on in the construction.  Yes they put in a sub air system and apparently built to USGA spec.  The bunkers look great from ground level (nothing like a rabbit).  The sod came from in front of Bing's house.  They must have been preparing for this there.  Looks to me like they did a great job with the hole.  Of course there will be no more trying to replicate Tom Watson's chip in!  There is a bunker there now!

I believe that the area where Watson chipped in from was washed away in a storm years ago. That's what I was told by my caddie when I played there a few years ago anyway.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 08:00:20 PM by Rob Marshall »
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 04:58:43 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on May 18, 2015, 11:31:58 PM
Yes they put in a sub air system and apparently built to USGA spec. 

Mark, any idea if the sub air installation is part of Palmers grand plan to change the grass to bent?  If I remember correctly, Palmer told the GD panelists in Orlando that he wanted to change the grass.  It was all speculation but Palmer and the Pebble Beach Company are still horrified at Tigers comments about the bumpy greens and his refusal to return to the AT&T. 
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Rob Marshall

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 08:03:31 PM »
Growing up and still living in upstate NY, most of the greens I play on have a lot of Poa. I've never understood the whining from the Pros about it. It may get a little bumpy very late in the day but under normal conditions it putts just fine.
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Mark_Fine

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2015, 02:56:18 PM »
Joel,
Many years ago they changed the #2 green to bent and it didn't go too well.  I don't know what their future plans are at this point?
Mark
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David_Tepper

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2015, 04:35:06 PM »
"I've never understood the whining from the Pros about it. It may get a little bumpy very late in the day but under normal conditions it putts just fine."

Rob M. -

Part of the whining from the Pros about the greens during the AT&T/Crosby is that the pin placements remain the same on all three courses for the first 3 days of the tournament. As a result, there is a lot of accumulated foot traffic around the cups by the 3rd day of the tournament. Not exactly "normal conditions!"

Plus that event is played in February, when the greens are usually soft due to the winter rains (at least back when it used to rain in California during the winter. ;))

DT  
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Rob Marshall

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Re: 17th green @ Pebble is finally expanded
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2015, 05:57:03 PM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on May 20, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
"I've never understood the whining from the Pros about it. It may get a little bumpy very late in the day but under normal conditions it putts just fine."

Rob M. -

Part of the whining from the Pros about the greens during the AT&T/Crosby is that the pin placements remain the same on all three courses for the first 3 days of the tournament. As a result, there is a lot of accumulated foot traffic around the cups by the 3rd day of the tournament. Not exactly "normal conditions!"

Plus that event is played in February, when the greens are usually soft due to the winter rains (at least back when it used to rain in California during the winter. ;))

DT  

So is it the Poa or the foot traffic or a combination of both?
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