[Craig Sweet]

Cary, I doubt the "war" against the 1% will target golf courses. We're more interested in dragging the bankers and hedge fund managers from their offices and hanging them in Times Square.

Where I live we have a 18 hole muni that runs along side what has become a high traffic "strip" developed commercial street. I could imagine a day when the course is reconfigured as a 9 holer, and the land along the street sold to commercial developers....

[Jeff_Brauer]

In the US, there is probably more emphasis on keeping golf courses.  So many middle class homeowners have home equity tied up in their golf course view, many local govts lobby to keep unprofitable courses open.  Even back to the great depression, there seems to have been a trend for private clubs that struggle to go to public.

Maybe the same will happen in China, let the private investor overspend on the clubhouse, and then take it over and make it a more peoples friendly pay as you go golf course.

[Jaeger Kovich]

And yet, I leave for China tomorrow morning for one of my projects there.  It is on Hainan where golf is legal.  Approvals are said to be in place, but then some locals say they need to save about 5 acres of rice paddies in various locations, so we need to resolve it for construction to begin.

I really have no understanding of how it all fits in, and when I ask my clients, they say the same thing. Just that it is "very confusing."

Don't be so sure about how "legal" it is on Hainan. I'm guessing you will be flying into Haikou, and you will no doubt see all the trees planted in the greens and grassed over bunkers of the course I spent 2 years building for RGD. The flight path into Haikou takes you right past the course about 5 min before you touch down.

Where in Hainan is your project?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jaeger,

Not far from Shankin Bay. However, inland, so nowhere near as good.

I toured the Doak project a year ago, and it is sad to hear it is grassed over. May have to go take a look. 

Like I say, I have no idea how this all fits in, but they tell me when we finish this rice paddy issue we will be ready to go.  But, the timing is suspicious. It could be they want it stopped, but knowing the permit is basically there, throw up some kind of environmental obstacle to stop it from being permit compliant.  I just don't know.  I guess I will know more on Tuesday.

[David_Tepper]

It is too bad young Li Hao-Tong did not win the European Tour Shenzhen Open in China earlier today. He lost in a playoff. Had he won, it would have given the sport a (male) national hero.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2015/tournamentid=2015028/news/newsid=253882.html

[Mike_Young]

In the US, there is probably more emphasis on keeping golf courses.  So many middle class homeowners have home equity tied up in their golf course view, many local govts lobby to keep unprofitable courses open.  Even back to the great depression, there seems to have been a trend for private clubs that struggle to go to public.

Maybe the same will happen in China, let the private investor overspend on the clubhouse, and then take it over and make it a more peoples friendly pay as you go golf course.

Jeff,
I'm not sure the same thing can happen now.  After the depression there were courses where people could learn to play.  Today, a Chinese guy taking up the sport at 25-35 years old can't learn on so many of the projects developed to attract RE sales.

[Norbert P]

Better Call Saul Bendelow




(From Wikipedia )
Design philosophy[edit]
 
. . .   
 
... "Most of Bendelow's early work was focused on spreading the game and "bringing golf to the majority of the populous."[6] As a result, most of his designs prior to World War I were fairly basic, focusing more on playability and ease of construction and maintenance. After World War I, Bendelow's designs started to become more strategically intricate, particularly in his work for private clubs. Bendelow left A.G. Spalding and joined American Park Builders during this time. In addition, construction technology and client budgets greatly advanced after World War I. These factors would give him the time required to focus on developing more challenging layouts. The added resources also allowed Bendelow to use more refined techniques in design and construction, including the use of topographic maps, soil surveys, irrigation plans, and plaster of paris green models."

 Its great that China is enjoying the game but perhaps the culture would be better served in the long term if Bendelow's and Spalding's Johnny Appleseed philosophy was more prevalent than the Apple Pie speculations.  

[Jaeger Kovich]

Jeff - I suggest you contact some people involved at The Dunes in Shenzhou Peninsula. Should be about an hour south of you. The last time I was there (year and a half ago) they were getting protests from local farmers who used to occupy the land.

Shanqin Bay had some protests too I believe, but the main investor there is a part of the same party as President Xi, so they will not be effected the same way others have in the most recent crack down.

[Jim_Kennedy]

These guys probably don't care:

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/28882076/chinese-investment-group-now-owns-22-myrtle-beach-golf-courses

[Tom_Doak]

These guys probably don't care:

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/28882076/chinese-investment-group-now-owns-22-myrtle-beach-golf-courses

Jim:

The main purpose of that operation is probably to acquire green cards for the children of investors.  I doubt they have a whole lot of expertise in running golf courses, or even a lot of interest in it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,

The article didn't read like that, but I may have missed the fine print.

[Tony_Muldoon]

That's not the only thing they are banning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/11560137/China-outlaws-obscene-striptease-funerals.html

I believe tour caddies used to call the practice range "No-fun-Land."   Name would suit China better.

I do find it interesting that Golf is the seemingly where the cultures clash as they attempt modernising.

[Howard Riefs]

WSJ raises an eyebrow at China's view on legal vs. illegal golf courses.  A-hed story today:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-china-the-legal-status-of-many-golf-courses-is-full-of-holes-1431563801

[BHoover]

To borrow a line from Austin Powers: "Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh? Eh comrades? Eh?"

 

[Wayne_Kozun]

Any update on the courses on Hainan?


Tom Doak - in another thread you said that you would be doing two courses on Hainan.  Did they both get built?

[Tom_Doak]

Any update on the courses on Hainan?


Tom Doak - in another thread you said that you would be doing two courses on Hainan.  Did they both get built?

Wayne:


The first one got built, in Haikou ... that's the one Jaeger worked on and mentioned above.  It is on the list of courses that's not allowed to open, but with a unique caveat.  At last report [July] the owner was still negotiating with the government about it.


The other project, for the same client, will likely never happen now.  It's a shame, as that was a spectacular site; but all the government's new regulations about setbacks and buffers and so on probably would have ruined my plans for it anyway.

[Joel_Stewart]

Tom:


Didn't you have a potential job in Beijing (possibly with Pacific Links) which was going to be part of a large scale development?

[Tom_Doak]

Didn't you have a potential job in Beijing (possibly with Pacific Links) which was going to be part of a large scale development?

We decided not to pursue the job in Beijing.  After our last adventure, nobody was keen to go build another course over there.

[Peter Pallotta]

The last mayor of Nanjing was sentenced to 15 years in prison for taking bribes (unrelated, I would note, to golf courses!) He is one of many senior Communist Party members being dealt with harshly in recent years for such offences. If a one-party state apparatus in a country of 1 billion+ people doesn't defend -- and be seen defending -- "the rule of law" in its various aspects, the utility and validity of said apparatus will soon start being openly/publicly questioned.
Peter

[Kerry Gray]

PPallotta.
Well, it not exactly like that. "Rule of law" as many would understand it does not have the same meaning in China. Their are many many laws and many ways to interpret them and many government bodies to implement them.
The current regime is after corrupt officials but what kind of corrupt officials?
Xi seems to support a more professional judiciary which sounds good but its too early to see results as yet.
And as for openly/publicly criticizing the government, how is that possible when the government has very tight control over media? They recently tightened those controls where bloggers must verify their ID cards before allowing the blog sites to remain posted.
Xi will likely be in office until 2023 and the next regime may be very different.
I think China is a different "kettle of fish" as they say and using traditional interpretations of how nations function often do not apply.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Over a week ago China banned Communist party members from playing golf, amongst other things.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34600544

[Jon Wiggett]

Over a week ago China banned Communist party members from playing golf, amongst other things.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34600544

and then they bought Wentworth

[Adam Lawrence]

Over a week ago China banned Communist party members from playing golf, amongst other things.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34600544

and then they bought Wentworth

'They'?

[Jon Wiggett]

Adam,

Wentworth is now owned by a Chinese company. Ironic as they are banned from playing the game as it is opposed to the values of the Chinese state. I wonder if it will be back on the market?

[Adam Lawrence]

Chinese citizens are not banned from playing golf. Communist Party members are banned from joining golf clubs. Plus fwiw I believe Dr Ruayrungruang holds Thai citizenship too.

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