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MCirba

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (attendees listed)
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2015, 10:58:24 AM »

Perhaps my friend Mike Cirba will summarize the five presentations, which were each enjoyable and very different.

I can give it a shot from memory.   

First, it was really great to see everyone after a long winter and I knew I was in the grand company of fellow golf geeks when Ian Larson showed the first "After" picture of the restored 1st hole at Culver Academy and the room was filled the something that sounded strangely like mass ecstatic moaning.   Egads.

A big thank you and shout out to the lovely ladies in attendance who probably haven't seen their men quite this excited in...oh, never mind.   Diane brought some terrific food and while I guess my estimate of bringing SIX large bottles of wine was a bit overstated for the afternoon crowd, at least no one died of thirst, although tee-totaling Mayday reportedly nearly brought himself to the point of dehydration due to a stomach bug.   Thankfully, he missed some of the good-natured Flynn bashing that ensued late in the day.

After a bit of a late start with general chaos of hellos and introductions, Ian Larson took the podium.   Ian told me prior he was nervous to present but you'd never know it as his presentation was polished, insightful, and enthusiastic, despite nagging technical problems with the projector that required an unanticipated 10 minute interruption to correct.

Ian, who recently started his own design and construction company called "Surface Golf" gave us an idea of his street creds and told us excitedly about his west-coast pilgrimage to learn at the feet of the Captain, George Thomas, with gigs at Riviera and LACC.   Ian has done construction and grow-in work for courses and architects great and small and today's presentation was focused in on one Culver Academy, a nine-hole course by Langford and Moreau in the middle of Indiana.

Ian shared that he was less than enthusiastic about the grow-in assignment from Bobby Weed until he started researching the history of the course, originally built in the 1920s for the Culver Military Academy.   During lean times most of the entire course was left overgrown and it wasn't long before all the bold and steep bunkers were fully overgrown and disappeared from play.

Weed's restoration was indeed a "historic restoration" where even the top-shot bunkers and those mostly only in play for higher handicappers were brought back from the grave.   While the "Before" pictures showed the promises of the unusually rolling landforms for that part of the country, the "After pics" provided a compelling sense of what has been recaptured.

Along with the bunkers, the greens were extended out to the edge of their pads and because of the significant undulations are kept at about an 8 at most on a Stiimp, with no intention to ever be cut shorter.   Ian shared how two men (Ken and Bob?) were essentially responsible for all upkeep and that the club does not presently have a Superintendent.   As such, the course is kept a bit shaggy and...to the better.

Because of the remote nature of the course as well as the fact it does not need to be a revenue stream, Ian shared almost transcendentally how he spent many an evening out on the beautiful property by himself, watching the sun set across the Indiana plains, thankful for a job where he could be just "out there", doing what he clearly loves.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (attendees listed)
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2015, 11:22:51 AM »
Next up was self-avowed architectural geek Mark Chalfant, who founded the "Devereux Emmet Society" and who is a student of Architecture of all types.

Like Ian, Mark shared that he was nervous but his professorial style belied any indication of such.   Armed with reams of notes and terrific aerials, his presentation focused on some of the key traits of Emmet, which included wide variety of hole lengths, the tendency towards development of "half-par" holes better suited to match-play mentality, a penchant for courses that finished with a short par four followed by a short par three finale, a keen eye for how to effectively use landforms, no reluctance to introduce blind shots where the land dictated, and perhaps most engagingly, the creation of bunkers in every size, shape, depth, and form imaginable.

That later point was brought into focus through aerial photos of a number of Emmet's courses that Mark felt were particularly well preserved and/or restored.   Mark focused primarily on Emmet's courses in and around upstate NY and Long Island, including Macgregor Links, Schuyler Meadows, St. George's  and Huntingdon, the latter two having been restored effectively in recent years by Gil Hanse and Ian Andrew, respectively, though the efforts of members who saw the potential of what had been originally built.

Indeed, the overhead of Huntingdon, where GCA-er Robert Emmons has helped lead a wonderful resurgence in that course through tree removal, bunker recapture, and green expansion, looked to be something you'd see on "Mysteries of Ancient Astronauts", as it seemed to be some hieroglyphic conversation with an aerial being.   Having played that course a few years back it was particularly good to see what's been accomplished.

At one point Mark pointed out his own "obsessive" personality about the topic of golf course architecture, which gathered more sympathetic head-nodding agreement in the room than a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.   

Mark's final slide was a very grainy photo of what had been one of Emmet's best courses, Pomonok in Queens, NY, now sadly under concrete.  As Mark described what we were supposed to be looking at of the hazy aerial, it occurred to me that if someone walked in off the street their first thought would be that we were all examining the Shroud of Turin.

Mark made a strong case for the fact that Emmet is often overlooked as one of the very best, and very earliest, American architects.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (attendees listed)
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2015, 12:11:09 PM »
Next on the dais was Jim Nagle, of "Forse Design Incorporated", who is one of our locals guys made good, hailing from nearby Lancaster County.   Accompanied by his lovely wife Meghan, Jim seemed very excited to join us for the day and his presentation was concise and focused.   Jim and Ron Forse have created a number of new designs in PA and WV but have gained prominence in recent decades through restorative work of old classic architects.

Jim began by telling us how he first got into the business through a chance meeting with Pete Dye and worked in Colorado with Perry and other family members.   It made me wonder if this most recent renaissance of golf course architecture would have even been possible if not for the influence of Pete Dye, who both inspired and directly trained so many of the modern practitioners of the craft.

Jim's theme focused on the three elements of great architecture from his perspective; 1) Strategy, 2) Variety, and 3) Naturalness and then proceeded to show us examples where all three components were on exhibit.  Rather than use easy examples of famous courses such as Lancaster and Pine Tree where Forse/Nagle have done stellar and well-received work, Jim sought to use examples from some of their lesser known courses such as Alex Findlay's Lebanon CC and Tavistock CC, the latter of which he said stood out to him as perhaps the best of Findlay's remaining work due to the superior bold internal green undulations.   Other courses he cited included William Flynn's little known Concord CC, where some unfortunate changes over the years are now being rolled back through an aggressive restoration effort.

Jim provided a terrific example of strategy by showing an overhead of the 3rd hole at Newport (RI) CC, indicating how Tillinghast's bunkering scheme provided clearly differing options for three levels of players.   Continuing on the theme of strategy, Jim couldn't help but provide a few examples of his much loved Lancaster, where the removal of an interfering tree on the 6th hole (par three) suddenly brought a bold tee shot to the back left corner into play, challenging the creek that borders along that edge.   Similarly, he displayed how an old recently discovered drawing by William Flynn of the 3rd hole translated into before and after photos that showed a tree impinged, one-dimensional hole prior contrasted with a widened, multi-route with accompanying bunker challenges after, setting up a steeply uphill approach over a 'great hazard" and skyline green.

Jim talked a lot about "scale" and how the size of certain properties dictated what size golf features needed to be created to be in harmony with the surrounding terrain.   Citing work at Lebanon (a MUCH underappreciated central PA course with a fairly incredible back nine), Jim showed thematically how man-made features could be created that were sized appropriately yet retained a sense of naturalness with the surrounding countryside.

Jim and Ron's work at Lancaster will get world-wide attention this summer in the US Women's Open and it couldn't be more richly deserving.   I think folks will be amazed at how good that William Flynn golf course is, and it certainly exhibits all of the components of greatness Jim mentioned in his exceptional presentation.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (wrap-up mode)
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2015, 12:42:08 PM »
Decompression Sunday.   :)

Ian's presentation of the before and after at Culver Academy was wonderful.  I gotta get there next time I'm back in the state from my youth.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (attendees listed)
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2015, 01:20:42 PM »
The comeback story of the day was one Lester George, who had been "scratched", Rollerball style from the tote-board by Chairman Bausch due to a broken tooth, yet steeled himself with a sip or two of Pinot Grigio and then fought his way to the podium, resplendent in an ASGCA plaid jacket.

We were all the better educated for his efforts!

Lester's presentation focused on something near and dear to all of us, the future of golf.   Evidently the USGA is becoming somewhat convinced that all of their "grow the game" initiatives will be for naught if they can't do something to reduce the pace of play and I believe they're right.   I can't tell you the number of times I've thought during a 5+ hour round of golf, "if anything ever made me quit the game, this would be it."

Lester's case study concerned Independence Golf Club in Midlothian VA, a public course built in 2001 and designed by Tom Fazio whose charge was to provide Virginia with a US Open capable course.   The course was also to be the home of the Virginia Golf Association and due to conflicting goals and large capital debt ten years after inception the course was struggling and new ownership took over.  I should mention that the property is quite large, also contains a par three course, a vast training center, and outbuildings for Corporate and retail functions.

The new owner came at things with a vastly different approach.   Knowing what he was asking was likely to be controversial, he explained to Lester up-front that he wanted to significantly reduce the time it took to play a round of golf and pretty much provided Lester free reign (and about 1.3 million) to do what he saw fit towards that goal.   The owner is also doing a number of novel things to get folks to the facility and particularly is looking to create family-friendly activities such as concerts, pizza restaurants, fitness centers, use of the grounds for jogging trails, 6 and 9 hole rounds, etc., as a way to have a recreational center that just also happens to have a golf course.

The golf course had a significant amount of bunkers, many of them over 10 feet deep and many located far from putting surfaces, ensuring that the weaker players would be brutalized.   Many of the greenside bunkers were front right.   The grasses in the rough grew lush and deep and rarely were any bailout areas provided where the lesser player could navigate safely.

Lester described how through a combination of bunker removal, bunker reconstruction, re-grassing, widening of fairways, clearing of off-fairway areas, the creation of milder short game recovery areas, and some other touches the course was able to reduce rounds by over 45 minutes, from nearly 5 hours on average to 4 hours 5 minutes, measured by GPS in the carts.   In addition to the financial impact of getting more people through the gates, overall less carts were needed, maintenance costs were reduced, the course rating actually improved, and things are looking rosier, with more changes to come.

I had an evil thought that in 50 years some internet geeks will find old aerials and set out to restore Independence, penal bunkers and all, to "Fazio's original design intent".   Indeed, I think we sometimes here get so caught up in the "bunker porn" view of historical courses that we sometimes forget the very real economical decisions that club's and courses have made over time, often for reasons we can only speculate about decades later.  

I do know that the other architects in attendance certainly were given food for thought in terms of their own designs and while some may view these types of changes negatively as reducing golf course challenge, Lester provided plenty of evidence that the course's design intent remained intact while the course is now much more navigable for the average player.

I personally think "sustainability" is the watchword for 21st century golf so listening to Lester's presentation was refreshing in approach and educational in substance.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (wrap-up mode)
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2015, 01:57:47 PM »
A BIG thank you for hosting us all and to the speakers for presenting. What a tremendous day!

I filmed the presentations and am reviewing them now. Once they are all edited, I will upload them to YouTube and share the URLs on this thread.

MCirba

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (wrap-up mode)
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2015, 02:05:06 PM »
Due to the enthusiasm of the presenters, the detailed questions, and the general spirit of community and camaraderie, the event was running late and it was after 5pm when our final speaker Ron Prichard took the podium.

Ron certainly needs no introduction to most of us who have been graced with knowing him as an architect and friend, but for those who don't know him, let's just say that Ron is a character.   A man educated in and highly appreciative of all art forms, with a rapier and biting wit mixed with a gentle compassion, Ron is truly one of a kind.

Ron speaks without notes with a grace and ease that lets his audience know up front that this is going to be a two-way interactive dialogue, not a soliloquy, and he was assisted by a young associate named Tyler (last name I regrettably missed) who has been working with Ron for the past few years.

Ron had hoped to enchant us with a six-minute clip of Beethoven to set the appropriate mood, but in the spirit of moving the program along nixed that idea.   Instead, he tied the idea of studying the classics as worthy of artistic emulation into a wide-ranging program that loosely touched on everything from Donald Ross's design progression and evolving styles to grammatically correct use of language to accurately describe golf course features (i.e. identifying the difference between what makes up a "green" versus a "putting surface"), to recounting how he needled Rees Jones to describe what exactly he meant by "Shot Value", to working with Desmond Muirhead in an attempt to create a replica of St. Andrews Old Course in Japan, to doing hand drawn topographical maps of Pinehurst #2 before realizing that technology already existed to do it much easier with lasers.

In essence, Ron provided us with a history lesson of golf course architecture across the past five decades (while Ron claims facetiously to be only 60 years old) while showing how the techniques have changed (as well as the game) but that the classical essence of great architecture remained the same.   Ron provided us with what he felt was the best definition of "Classic", as follows:

Something that serves as a model since its elements are so poised as to represent for all time the miraculous illusion of perfection."

Ron spoke with sadness about agronomic changes and mowing techniques that have forced his hand to reduce green slope on some greens where he's worked (Mountain Ridge) and his presentation turned into a detailed discussion between Ron, and Jim Nagle, and Lester George, as well as Tom Paul that could have gone on all night concerning interpretations of Donald Ross's field drawings, their complexity, versus simpler line drawings done by William Flynn, the Gordons, and others..

Seeing the hour, Ron graciously wrapped up and some of the group convened to a nearby restaurant for sushi and more golf talk.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 02:28:54 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: GCA Philly gathering: 'barn fest' this Saturday (wrap-up mode)
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2015, 09:10:25 AM »
As each video will take some time to edit, save and upload, I will be posting them one at a time this week.

Mark Chalfant's presentation on Devereux Emmet's Bold Bunkering and Greens is now live on YouTube. You can view it by clicking here or visiting the link below. Enjoy!

youtu.be/zIXMF2eXlYk

Joe Bausch

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Matt deserves a big thanks for being the videographer!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Michael Blake

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Thanks to Joe for organizing and hosting.  And for the post-event social at Susanna Foo.
Thanks to Ian, Mark, Jim, Lester, & Ron for presenting.
Thanks to Matt for videoing.

Nice to see some old faces and meet some new ones.

Joe Bausch

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I apologize for not finding you Saturday and introducing myself.  But you probably saw that I was a bit occupied herding all the cats.  :-)

Glad you hit it off with Mayday.  Now he officially has one buddy.   ;)

When you are back in the area, yell, and we'll go play some classic course.  Maybe even Mayday's!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Next video to be available is Jim Nagle's presentation.  Maybe by later today or tonight!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Chris Mavros

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This was a lot of fun to attend and next time I will need to work on my time management so I'm able to stay for the entirety.  It was great to finally meet a lot of you in person and the presentations that I was able to stay for were excellent.  I'm already looking forward to the next gathering and am thankful I'll be able to watch the presentations I missed online. 

Thanks again to everyone involved in making this a great time. 

mike_malone

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Joe

Great job. Barry is just grateful I did not throw up in his lap.
AKA Mayday

Joe Bausch

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Joe

Great job. Barry is just grateful I did not throw up in his lap.

That trash can did not smell good Sunday morning.

Good work by you!

 ;)
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Kris Shreiner

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Many thanks to all that made for such a memorable SuperNova GCA day...even if the Wildkittens did make a meek exit from the tourney.

Special kudos to maestro Joe and Lady Di, who nailed the vittles and refreshments department!

To Matt , who captured the day for all to see AND even survived my spirited rant concerning the game's continued apathy toward better supporting caddie golf. ;D

The speakers were an engaging group, providing insights from ALL angles. When you hear references to Van Gogh and then to the designer of the Union League, by two different GCA presenters on the same afternoon, you KNOW fertile minds are at work!
This Philly gathering offered yet another wonderful example of how much Ran's GCA experiment generates so much more for our merry band BEYOND the sward.

Well done gang...a perfect first shot into a Swinging Spring!

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 10:21:33 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Ed Brzezowski

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" Lesser known Concord CC", it's only been around 90 years. You Philly guys should be ashamed. But then again maybe the membership at Concord should be too for hiding our light under a basket, as the Bible says. Super is killing himself trying to do good. Greg is making inroads and the project returning hole five to Flynns plans is almost done. Now if a few of us can convince the board to put back the Hells Half Acre Tilly removed we will be well on our way.

If any of you guys want to see this unknown course please let me know. It's not far from the famous Clayton Park track.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Joe Bausch

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" Lesser known Concord CC", it's only been around 90 years. You Philly guys should be ashamed. But then again maybe the membership at Concord should be too for hiding our light under a basket, as the Bible says. Super is killing himself trying to do good. Greg is making inroads and the project returning hole five to Flynns plans is almost done. Now if a few of us can convince the board to put back the Hells Half Acre Tilly removed we will be well on our way.

If any of you guys want to see this unknown course please let me know. It's not far from the famous Clayton Park track.

Let's do 27 soon, Ed!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Matt Frey, PGA

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Next up in the video series is Jim Nagle's presentation on the Three Elements of a Good Golf Course and Where to Find Them on Hidden Gems. You can view it by clicking here or visiting the link below. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/Pm-JxSZ3_GM
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 03:49:11 PM by Matt Frey, PGA »

Joe Bausch

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That is really good, Matt.  I hope many will take the time to view Jim's presentation.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

PCCraig

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Thank you very much for filming and posting these presentations, Matt & Joe. I haven't had the time to watch them yet, but I've bookmarked and will watch them when I have a chance. Great stuff and much appreciated!
H.P.S.

Mark McKeever

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" Lesser known Concord CC", it's only been around 90 years. You Philly guys should be ashamed. But then again maybe the membership at Concord should be too for hiding our light under a basket, as the Bible says. Super is killing himself trying to do good. Greg is making inroads and the project returning hole five to Flynns plans is almost done. Now if a few of us can convince the board to put back the Hells Half Acre Tilly removed we will be well on our way.

If any of you guys want to see this unknown course please let me know. It's not far from the famous Clayton Park track.

Tilly removed a HHA?!?!   I saw the photo in one of the presentations, but why would it have been removed by AWT?
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Phil Young

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Ed,

Why do you believe that Tilly removed an HHA? The only day that I can put Tilly on site is 8/15/1936, during his PGA Course Consultation Tour.

He made several major recommendations including reducing the size of some overly large greens on 2, 4, 12, 13 & 14. A new green site for 10 & a new tee for 11. Many times he didn't list every recommendation made in his letters of this type, but he always listed the major changes. In my opinion removing an HHA would qualify as that.

Does the Club have a copy of his notes that he left behind that would indicate this? I've attached a copy of his letter below:
 

RJ_Daley

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Mike Cirba's synopsis and observations certainly demonstrate how we are so much better off with him back in the GCA community.  Joe and the Philly gang really do raise the bar when it comes to walking the walk and giving meaning to the study of GCA while maintaining the spirit of sharing their knowledge and enthusiasm with the rest of us.  Thanks all.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

BCowan

Great work Joe and thank you Matt for filming!   I really enjoyed both videos.  Mark Chalfant comment about Mr Emmet early courses being solid with average land really impresses me.  I think that is a point that gets overlooked on GCA.  I look forward to playing an Emmet course this summer. 

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