[Josh Stevens]

I am a golf nut and I confess I struggle to maintain interest in pro golf outside the majors.  I might go and watch for a few hours if a tourney is held at my club, but I will spend most of that in the bar

I'm not sure architecture really translates well on TV, and while it does in the flesh, most spectators don't see it.  They see big smashed drives and that's it

There are more good tournaments played on average courses than average tournaments on good courses or indeed good tournaments on good courses

[Brett_Morrissy]

Chris and I were discussing this last week, a town like Melbourne has so much quality sport, that it can get spread around quite a bit.

Whereas a tournament that is extraordinarily successful, the Victoria Open (Men & Women) at Thirteenth Beach Golf Links, which three years ago moved to a major regional centre in Geelong, Bellaring Peninsula and the seaside village of Barwon Heads, has seen significant crowds, 4 x 18 holes of Pro-Am sponsors sold out prior, Thursday's car parks almost full by lunchtime, 36 hole venue allows for Rds 1&2 to alternate with Men and Women, before the cut, when men and women alternate tee times on the Beach course, while members and guests can still play a round on the Creek course, before catching some golf. Players loved the event, no ropes allowing for crowds to interact with the players, listen to them, watch them closely and walk the fairways.

The prize pool is increasing approx $100k each year for both men and women, prize pools are equal.

It allowed for the unique outcome of Richard Green and his fiancé, Marieanne Skarpnord, to both win their titles at the same venue, on the same day. Incredible.

Entry for kids is free, so to locate the tournament in A regional centre a little over 60mins drive from Melb, allows for a more genuine interest in the actual golf, in this unique format.

[Greg Gilson]

Brett, the Vic Open has done a wonderful job of creating a unique format that other struggling tournaments should look at - largely driven by GV's David Greenhill. It has found a nice home in regional Victoria. It has provided a couple of wonderful feel good stories.

However, it is a long way from "extraordinarily successful" as you describe it. It is but a shadow of the past position it once held...albeit that its heading back in a positive direction. Without TV  tournaments cannot get sponsors. Without sponsors.....and so the spiral goes.

I do not have a magic answer...just commenting on your description.

[James Bennett]

I hear that Adelaide is thinking of doing something again - may have been a meeting of powerbrokers recently or about to happen.  We will see what happens - ladies or mens event in future, perhaps a year or so's time.

James B

[Mike_Clayton]

James

It is ridiculous Adelaide hasn't seen a decent event for many years.

Greg,

I'm saying the Vic Open is extraordinarily successful. The event was dead in Melbourne and in 3 years it has formed a base from which to make a really great tournament. It needs more money and a better field but both are coming and the local support is amazing. The lesson might be to take golf where people appreciate it.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Greg, I invite you to come down next year and see it, if you haven't already, I was not comparing it to its successful past, that is indeed history. My description is based on a current pro tournament being held in Barwon Heads, that all the players enjoy coming to and the depth of fields continue to grow, the crowds are enthusiastic and supportive, the golf community gets to together to supply abundant volunteers and most importantly, it is the venue, Thirteenth Beach Golf Club, that is one of the keys to the success, all parties are benefitting, and TV should be part of the event next year, albeit for the women's event only.

I stand by my comments.

[Greg Gilson]

Thanks Brett. I have lived through the past 8 years of the Vic Open's rollercoaster and I have dropped down there the past 2 years as my wife has been part of the WGV/GV Team involved. I think that I am in somewhat deep agreement with you & Mike C. We just differ on our definitions of "extraordinarily successful". Please see my actual comments. The tournament has done a good job of resurrecting itself from the dire straits it had found itself in. David Greenhill probably deserves a statue. I just think it has a way to go before it is accorded "extraordinarily successful" status. Hey, I'm not into nitpicking...its a good news story and we need more of them.

[Mark_F]

The lesson might be to take golf where people appreciate it.

So it's the (potential) spectators fault they don't go to tournaments Mike?

The Masters is too expensive to get into given the quality of the field, you have to put up with power-hungry Nazi's marshalling, that big shithead security guard who seems to think he can stand right in your view with impunity, the food is crap and expensive and the village is full of uninteresting and banal displays.

Most of the golfers are boring robots who don't interact with the punters at all and the caddies seem to think they are Nobel prize-winning Neurosurgeons, not one step up from grocery cart pushers.

The TV coverage is woeful, so it's best not to even watch it.  Before you know it, the event is upon you and you find yourself not giving a stuff.

[Josh Stevens]

Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to.  With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.

Wonder how this course would be seen in the US.  Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like

[David Stamm]

Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to.  With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.

Wonder how this course would be seen in the US.  Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like

My thoughts as well. It's been great fun watching how the course has been playing. RM is truly magnificent, especially under these conditions.

[RJ_Daley]

Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to.  With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.

Wonder how this course would be seen in the US.  Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like

My thoughts as well. It's been great fun watching how the course has been playing. RM is truly magnificent, especially under these conditions.

Well, didn't we essentially have that at Pinehurst U.S. Open last year?  My take from commentary was that the viewers and golf fans had mixed reviews, perhaps leaning towards favorable.  Of course our denizens on GCA.com loved it as being the more pure and intended 'maintenance meld'. 

Wading through Mark's humorous sarcasm (to know hi is to love him  )  I think he makes a good point.  The problem seems to be that 'spectator friendly' is a dual edged sword, in my view.  The standard of on-the-course comportment of the spectators has always traditionally been the genteel golf clap, reserved and polite spectator.  Yet, the economic pressure to set up the venue with every profit center of sales of F&B and trinkets and such as a priority becomes a blend of over-served punters, and in some cases substandard quality of offerings at max prices.  I would say some event concessionaires get it right at both golf venue and other stadia of sporting events.  But, then we get the occasional venue that gets the punter's more involved by design like the Ryder Cup and The Waste Management - Superbowl weekend drinking contest in AZ where the crowds get boisterous.   The players do get more interactive at the Ryder and President's cups.  But, they get indignant when some joker yells "mashed potatoes" after booming drives from the teebox.   Mark, we can't turn golf into a blood sport, and yet maintain some semblance of the sport's more genteel tradition, and have the so-called punters get invested and interactive, all at a low low price of admission.  It is a conundrum, it seems to me.  I really don't know the actual economics and financial details of putting on a successful tournament here in the U.S., let alone Australia.  But, I suspect that the answer to financial success and viability lies more in the TV rights and advertisements, than the take at the gate or the beer tent.  The Champion's Tour did encourage their players to have more interactive activity both with the spectators and broadcasters  on-course, during progress of play.  I don't think the problem is unsolvable.  But, tradition of how we watch the tournaments and get the spectators more invested needs some out-of-the-box rethinking. 

To lose the yearly rota of Australia golf events to watch that many of us northern hemi, snow bound cabin fever ridden blokes endure would be a pity.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

I've watched in awe Lydia Ko play 27 holes this week. She has not come close to missing a single shot - on a really hard course. Almost every shot lands precisely in the right place (she misjudged a pitch into 17 last night) with absolute control.
You know how hard it is to get to those back pins on 3 East (15) She hit a hybrid to 6 feet the first day, holed a 9 iron the second and hit a 7 iron to 15 feet yesterday. Brilliant shots all of them.
What amazes me is (we counted them) there were less than 20 women who looked like they may have been members of clubs watching her play the back nine yesterday.

What is utterly ridiculous is spectators are not allowed to walk the fairways.

And the greens are too hard at this point. Women cannot spin the ball like men and it is silly to expect them to.

[RJ_Daley]

Thanks Mike for all the updates.  What a great situation you have to be in the front row and midst of the burgeoning greatness of Ms Ko during her early career.  Sorry Ms Oh didn't make cut.  But, have a great final round today. 

[Benjamin Litman]

Yes, Mike, many thanks for the updates--both here and on the tournament website. For those unaware, Mike has been writing great articles daily at the Women's Open website about mostly the course but also the players. If the few hours on Golf Channel aren't enough for most people, the website (via YouTube) offers a livestream, which I greatly appreciate.

As of two years ago, Lydia Ko joined Tiger as my favorite golfers to watch. She's mesmerizing and a very intelligent young woman. Listen to her comments about Royal Melbourne: The 17-year-old appears to be the only one who not only understands, but embraces and even loves the many challenges the course presents. Watching Lydia in an era Michelle Wie was supposed to own should make clear once and for all that the greatest predictor of a childhood prodigy's success in professional golf is success (where success is defined by victories). Michelle had, has, and will always have the talent edge, but Lydia was always going to be the better professional because she just wins. I can't wait to watch the clinician at work tonight. Bring it home, Lyds!

[David_Tepper]

I do have a question about the course. There is a fair amount of vegetation (trees and bushes) that appears to be very much "in play" on a number of holes. It is hard to tell from watching on TV whether or not a ball hit into the trees and bushes will be playable or will result in an unplayable lie or even an lost ball.

Are the trees and bushes as dense as they appear on TV? Are recovery shots likely/possible from them?    

[Benjamin Litman]

David, I'll let Mike be the one to give the defintive response, but from my memory, there are very, very few trees/bushes that are actually in play for the pros. A shot would need to be hit well offline to find them.

[Josh Stevens]

RM is somewhat links like in that while it does not have a lot of vegetation near the lines of play, what there is is generally really ugly.

Tea Tree is gorse without the prickles, very woody and low horizontal growth patterns.  To be avoided

Yes I concede Clayts point the girls cant get the spin.  THey seem to generate good distance with modern bats, but they lack the acceleration down into the ball and perhaps there is just too much release - balls are pitching short and running 40m over the back of the green.  Maybe they should use Balata balls?

[James Bennett]

David

how would you describe the gorse that surrounds Dornoch?
I expect it catches the worst of shots, and rarely comes into play for the best of shots, unless a particularly aggressive line of play is taken.

That is how I would describe RM.  Plenty of width, but with strong hazards for the player that chooses to take them on, and perhaps the best vegetation management program in Australian courses (tree management, natural vegetation management and grasses management.  For all the discussion about the bunkering, greens and routing at RM, the vegetation management is of an equally high standard, making the place what it is. "A cathedral of Australian golf".

James B

[Josh Stevens]

Having said all that, how much of the nice change is due to the course design as opposed to the course presentation.

If you were for example, to put Merion and Kingston Heath in roughly the same architectural par ballpark, would you rather watch Merion under US open conditions or KH under its usual tournament conditions (ignoring the stature of the event and the quality of the field at a US Open)

[David_Tepper]

Benjamin L. -

While most of the heavy vegetation at RM may not come into play for the pros, I am wondering how often it comes into play for the mid-teen handicap.

James B. -

I would describe much of the gorse that surrounds Dornoch as overly penal, since most of the time it results in a lost ball (stroke & distance, the harshest penalty). It instead of gorse, if there was water or just OB stakes, I wonder how people would judge the course? At least with water you get relief at the point of entry, not stroke and distance.

The good news is Dornoch has removed much of the gorse that was within the course and done so on the Struie course as well.

DT       

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

Lydia KO's course management is extraordinary. I don't think she BELIEVES she can pop a ball to within a yard of her intended landing spot she KNOWS it!

Her chip in for eagle at the third on the last day as an example! A delicate pin-point precision stroke with a wee bit of backspin to counter the downslope after clearing the bunker lip by a foot to allow the ball to trickle into the hole.  From what ...all of 30 metres maybe? Just exquisite!  She must have been channeling Seve!

And yes, as Mike Clayton pointed out it seemed that the greens got just a bit too firm for the amount of backspin which could be generated by the golfers. That being said I was intrigued that running shots were not utilised more.  Perhaps that is not possible on RM considering where the pin placements were?  Can anyone answer this as I have not played Royal Melbourne itself.

Cheers Colin

[RJ_Daley]

Interesting point Colin.  And maybe a top player like Mike can answer the question of utilizing the bump and runs and running along the ground from fringe vs a chip shot. 

Jane Crafter had a players lesson on our broadcast demonstrating use of the hybrid club to bump it along the ground with a little loft.  I also suspect the decision not to bump it was more because of angles and flirting with the green edges cut so much into the greens, with either fall in slopes from green into bunker, or slight humps just over the bunker edges on green surface.  Perhaps the runner on the ground taking an angle too close to these precarious bunker edges within greens is too chancy.  But, when the path of the ball didn't have to travel so close to a bunker edge, the bumper along the ground is the preferred method off the fescue surrounds. 

What would Tiger give to have Lydia's short game at this point in the proceedings! 

And, you have to love the ladies demeanor and the appearance they loved playing RM.  At the key moments of a missed shot or some disappointment by the contenders, you could see a bit of shocked disappointment, followed by classy efforts to suck it up and turn the frown upside down with a gracious smile to the crowd.   Despite what must have been a bit of a cooker in temperatures, they all showed great composure.   I could watch golf like that every day.  Matter of fact, I might.  I taped all 4 rounds! 

[Jerry Kluger]

I was disappointed how much putting they showed - that was not the exciting part of watching RM.  Ko is an outstanding talent but she has to do something about her putting routine - she needs to do something to speed up.  She would view the putt from behind, then alongside, then half way down the line, then with two fingers from behind, then line up the line on the ball, then have her caddy behind her make sure she was lined up and then finally stroke the putt. Oh yeah, she would also take a few practice strokes.

[RJ_Daley]

Jerry, whilsrt the men of PGA tour are getting as bad,  the LPGA is so much worse with this aspect of putting fastidiousness.  What is really maddening is those that use all these 'aim point' methods and are so OCD about the putting, yet are not very good putters.  Ko doesn't seem to have that particular problem at this juncture. 

And, it gets worse at the lower levels of ladies golf.  Watching some of the college am girls will drive you nuts.  Their coaches encourage this I believe. 

[Colin Macqueen]

Jerry,

The fact that KO seems chip in once and three-putts only once a round (to ensure she keeps her feet on the ground and realises she is a mere mortal) would seem to mitigate this need of yours for her "…to speed up"!!

To be honest I watched all four rounds (cyclonic conditions here kept me indoors!) and I did not feel that she was footling around in an egregious manner.

But, but, but ……… RJD has taped all four rounds so he could actually time all these gals, do a statistical analysis, and give us a definitive answer!

Disclaimer: I am NOT a Kiwi …… just in awe!!

Cheers Colin

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