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V. Kmetz

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Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« on: January 23, 2015, 10:14:49 PM »
Hi,

When JC mentioned Chicago GC #2 as a "too hard of a hole" entry, it made me look back to the aerials on near-maps...and I surmise #2 is their Road Hole, but besides the 1, 3, 7 and 17 (DPlat, Biarr, Redan, Alps respectively)...And Imy guessing that the water carry 10th is their Short and #13 is their Eden, what other Template designs are on that course...what is their Punchbowl, Drive and Pitch, Knoll, Leven? I see a Spectacles bunker on #6, but not a Principal's Nose...I don't know if there is a Cape...and I don't know if #9 fits in any previous template...

can anyone straighten me out?

PS: i'm going to make a separate thread on the templates again...chime in there too, if it pleases you to do so.

cheers

vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 11:45:26 PM »
Hey VK,
Two is indeed the Road hole, as far as the other templates, according to the scorecard:

14 is the Cape hole (and it is a mighty fine one, outside of Mid Ocean and NGLA, maybe my favorite)
12 is the Punchbowl
5 is the Leven hole

Interestingly, they list 17 as a double plateau on the scorecard, but I recall thinking at the time that 1 was the double plateau and 17 was the Alps hole as you mentioned, but they have not said this on the scorecard.
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V. Kmetz

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 11:59:52 PM »
Hi,

CD that IS interesting about 17/1...

I was surprised by 5 being a possible Leven, until I realized it was a reverse of 17th at National, and the command is to try and go long down the right side off the tee...

Thank you for the input...is there an easy way for you to just jot off the hole number and listed template type?

Love to see it.

cheers

vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

V. Kmetz

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 11:56:25 PM »

anymore on this...anybody?

I'm happy to let it just drift off, but I'd like to understand the iteration of Templates there if anyone can speak to it, so I gave it a bump... and especially what is, if any, the Alps hole there if it is not 17...as CD indicated.

cheers

vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Bill_McBride

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 10:36:59 AM »
Quote from: V. Kmetz on January 24, 2015, 11:56:25 PM

anymore on this...anybody?

I'm happy to let it just drift off, but I'd like to understand the iteration of Templates there if anyone can speak to it, so I gave it a bump... and especially what is, if any, the Alps hole there if it is not 17...as CD indicated.

cheers

vk

17 is uphill but I don't recall a blind second or a hidden cross bunker.   I was walking with Walker Cup groups so maybe didn't see the approach from the right angle. 

I guess 16 would be a Long although the young bucks were hitting iron second shots. 
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Dan Moore

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 06:33:24 PM »
I think the entries so far account for the template holes at CGC.  It does not have as many pure templates as some MacRaynors since several hole routings from the original 1895 lay-out were incorporated into Raynors 1922 redesign.  Those would include the 1st, 10th (with a template short hole green), 14th (with the tee and fairway moved to provide the cape effect), the 15th, 17th and 18th.  That combination of pure template holes and Macdonald originals from before he became enamored with templates makes CGC unique among all Macdonald Rayor courses. 
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 06:37:18 PM »
Dan,
Isn't the 4th hole a CGC also considered a Cape?

Jim
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JReese

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 06:39:06 PM »
Some information from the 2005 Walker Cup program:  the fairway bunker on #6 is commonly referred to as the “Pope’s nose”.   17 has a double plateau green.  
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V. Kmetz

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 08:55:41 PM »
Quote from: Dan Moore on January 25, 2015, 06:33:24 PM
I think the entries so far account for the template holes at CGC.  It does not have as many pure templates as some MacRaynors since several hole routings from the original 1895 lay-out were incorporated into Raynors 1922 redesign.  Those would include the 1st, 10th (with a template short hole green), 14th (with the tee and fairway moved to provide the cape effect), the 15th, 17th and 18th.  That combination of pure template holes and Macdonald originals from before he became enamored with templates makes CGC unique among all Macdonald Rayor courses. 

Great info there DM...thank you.

It makes me wish to ask, what were CBM's feelings about the Chicago GC course post-Raynor...? Obviously they had a symbiotic relationship, but are there any records of critique or theory outwardly exchanged on subjects or courses?

On a humorous note, I was looking at the aerials of the property the other day...and concluded that Chicago almost is compelled to be as notoriously exclusive as their reputation--there is no place to park the cars! That's the smallest parking area I've ever seen.

cheers

vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

David Whitmer

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 09:05:31 PM »
Quote from: V. Kmetz on January 25, 2015, 08:55:41 PM
Quote from: Dan Moore on January 25, 2015, 06:33:24 PM
I think the entries so far account for the template holes at CGC.  It does not have as many pure templates as some MacRaynors since several hole routings from the original 1895 lay-out were incorporated into Raynors 1922 redesign.  Those would include the 1st, 10th (with a template short hole green), 14th (with the tee and fairway moved to provide the cape effect), the 15th, 17th and 18th.  That combination of pure template holes and Macdonald originals from before he became enamored with templates makes CGC unique among all Macdonald Rayor courses. 

Great info there DM...thank you.

It makes me wish to ask, what were CBM's feelings about the Chicago GC course post-Raynor...? Obviously they had a symbiotic relationship, but are there any records of critique or theory outwardly exchanged on subjects or courses?

On a humorous note, I was looking at the aerials of the property the other day...and concluded that Chicago almost is compelled to be as notoriously exclusive as their reputation--there is no place to park the cars! That's the smallest parking area I've ever seen.

cheers

vk

VK,

No need for the lot to be bigger. When I played there a few years ago I asked my host how many members they had. He said one had just passed, and they were subsequently at 104 members.
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V. Kmetz

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 10:33:24 PM »
DW,

Ay' and begorra...I expected as much.

My god, compared with some of the other classic clubs/classic courses I've been around, that's so amazing...WF is like a auto manufacturing plant by contrast.

cheers

vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Ian Andrew

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 09:07:34 AM »
There is nothing written about templates in their centennial history book (1992) nor on their current scorecard.
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BCrosby

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Re: Chicago Golf Club - Which Hole is Assigned Which Template New
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 09:15:50 AM »
Quote from: Ian Andrew on January 28, 2015, 09:07:34 AM
There is nothing written about templates in their centennial history book (1992) nor on their current scorecard.

Surprising. It is inconceivable that a history of the course written today would not spend considerable time on template holes.  Another telltale of how much interest in golf architecture has grown over the last decade or so.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:48:04 AM by BCrosby »
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