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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« on: January 20, 2015, 11:15:16 AM »
This is not intended to be a bashing thread but instead a discovery.  What has Gill Hanse done besides sell mediocre courses to outstanding clients?  Not a small feat on its own.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:14:22 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 11:18:48 AM »
While I have not played enough Hanse courses to comment on the quality of his work, I will say the his reputation in the industry is impeccable.  I've heard that he's pleasant, cooperative and easy to work with.  I think that goes a long way.   
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 11:22:47 AM »
Quote from: JR Potts on January 20, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
While I have not played enough Hanse courses to comment on the quality of his work, I will say the his reputation in the industry is impeccable.  I've heard that he's pleasant, cooperative and easy to work with.  I think that goes a long way.   

I agree 100% I even love his affiliation with Cornell, the University that saved my Daughter's life.
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 11:22:54 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 20, 2015, 11:15:16 AM
This is not intended to be a bashing thread but instead a discovery.  What has Gill Hanse done besides sell mediocre courses to outstanding clients?  Not a small feat on its own.

Mediocre? Seriously?
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Chris Roselle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 11:24:15 AM »
While I have not played most of his original designs, Applebrook GC is one of my favorite modern courses in an around Philadelphia.  I love the restoration work he did at Gulph Mills GC and although I never played Sleepy Hollow GC prior to his work there I thought it was a tremendous course when I played it after his restoration.
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John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 11:25:41 AM »
I think one of the things over looked on Hanse is the renovation work he's done has been truly well received. His list of quality courses he's helped out successful is a big plus to his reputation. Kittansett, Fenway, LACC to name a few.
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Integrity in the moment of choice

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 11:31:31 AM »
Modern restoration work is predictable at best.  I don't get out much.  What's great about the new work?

I've played Rustic and it hardly shines above the work of dozens of other young architects.
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Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 11:38:26 AM »
With Tallgrass, I think he designed the second best public golf course on Long Island. Maybe even first best since I'd probably rather play it more often than BPB. While every hole isn't a home run, as a whole it's an extremely fun course that contains almost everything we tend to value: walkability, variety, strategy, generous playing corridors, and well-positioned, well-contoured greens that add adequate challenge to its 6500 max length. There are devilish short par 4's and long blind par 3's. There are solid risk/reward par 5's. It makes creative use of a relatively flat site, and it has nods to minimalism, quirk, and template-based design.
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South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 11:44:46 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 20, 2015, 11:31:31 AM
Modern restoration work is predictable at best.  I don't get out much.  What's great about the new work?

I've played Rustic and it hardly shines above the work of dozens of other young architects.

Dozens? Name 4 under 50...
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 11:45:08 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 20, 2015, 11:31:31 AM
Modern restoration work is predictable at best.  I don't get out much.  What's great about the new work?

I've played Rustic and it hardly shines above the work of dozens of other young architects.

Dozens? Please regale us with the names of these "dozens".
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 11:45:56 AM »
Quote from: JR Potts on January 20, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
While I have not played enough Hanse courses to comment on the quality of his work, I will say the his reputation in the industry is impeccable.  I've heard that he's pleasant, cooperative and easy to work with.  I think that goes a long way.   
+1   Makes me wonder if we will see him at Sand Valley in the future. Would have liked to see him get the nod at Medinah for the #2 renovation work.
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Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 11:47:04 AM »
I think what's more important is that he's getting a chance at a big-time American venue.  I like C&C and Doak as much as the next guy, but variety is the spice of life.   Maybe it will be great, maybe it will be awful.  
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:03:40 PM by Josh Tarble »
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Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 11:48:16 AM »
He did a great renovation at the Country Club of Rochester
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If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Matt Bielawa

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 11:51:31 AM »
Boston GC is the only original design I've seen, but I was very impressed by it.  Some awesome green complexes.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 11:54:40 AM »
For the guys who want names instead of discussing courses.  Nuzzo + pic three from this list. http://www.asgca.org/members/84?letter=All I really am not into naming names when their work speaks for itself. 
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Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 11:56:00 AM »
I've played four of his original designs: French Creek, Applebrook, Inniscrone, and Rustic Canyon.  While I thought they were all good, I didn't feel that they were world beaters.  I have played nine of what he calls "restored courses" and thought his work was brilliant.  If what he has done in restoration is indicative of what he might do in original work, maybe his best stuff is in front of him.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:00:38 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 11:58:30 AM »
I've played three new courses by Gil Hanse:

- Craighead Links could have been a really bland, low budget course on average land and soil. Instead it is a great example of how much imaginative green complexes can elevate a layout.

- Boston GC is the best modern course I've played. Great vibe, subtle homages to early design styles as well as an abundance of features, some highly individual, that never make the natural flow feel anything other than the perfect fit for the land.

- Castle Stuart has many similarities to Boston in the style of features used. Really well thought out, highly strategic and loads of fun.

The only doubt I’ve ever brought up is that many of the elite modern architects are so good at designing and building features that they potentially could cross the line between simplicity and subtlety in to something a little more contrived… This is what I was trying to get at on this “subtlety vs eye candy” thread… http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56826.0.html

But that was more an observation. I haven’t actually seen a course where it has happened to the detriment of the design…
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:00:16 PM by Ally Mcintosh »
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 11:59:21 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 20, 2015, 11:54:40 AM
For the guys who want names instead of discussing courses.  Nuzzo + pic three from this list. http://www.asgca.org/members/84?letter=All I really am not into naming names when their work speaks for itself. 

Nice dodge.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 12:08:19 PM »
Trolls gonna troll.
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Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 12:11:05 PM »
David Stamm,

Please explain what you are championing here.  I was about to name names and then came upon Neal Meagher, the most charming man with whom I have ever shared a round of golf.  I just don't do lists, never have.  It's what's not on a list that often matters most and I don't want to miss someone.

Now please stop the bickering and tell us what you love about the work of Gill Hanse.
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 12:11:48 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 20, 2015, 11:15:16 AM
What has Gill Hanse done besides sell mediocre courses to outstanding clients? 
With a loaded (and incorrect) question like that there is no answer that would suffice.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 12:13:12 PM »
The only course of his I have played is the Craighead course at Crail, where I'm a  member.  I agree completely with Ally's comments there.  It's also worth noting that he is well liked at Crail because he has come back to the club (his first course in Europe, I believe) twice since it opened, each time attending a members' meeting to get feedback on the course and suggesting changes as a result.  All without charge.  Great client care in my book.
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2015, 12:17:06 PM »
I apologize for misspelling Gil's name throughout the thread.  I only edited the first post for future reference.
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2015, 12:22:02 PM »
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:24:22 PM by David_Tepper »
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2015, 12:25:15 PM »
Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on January 20, 2015, 11:58:30 AM
I've played three new courses by Gil Hanse:

- Craighead Links could have been a really bland, low budget course on average land and soil. Instead it is a great example of how much imaginative green complexes can elevate a layout.

- Boston GC is the best modern course I've played. Great vibe, subtle homages to early design styles as well as an abundance of features, some highly individual, that never make the natural flow feel anything other than the perfect fit for the land.

- Castle Stuart has many similarities to Boston in the style of features used. Really well thought out, highly strategic and loads of fun.

The only doubt I’ve ever brought up is that many of the elite modern architects are so good at designing and building features that they potentially could cross the line between simplicity and subtlety in to something a little more contrived… This is what I was trying to get at on this “subtlety vs eye candy” thread… http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56826.0.html

But that was more an observation. I haven’t actually seen a course where it has happened to the detriment of the design…


Ally,

Thanks, I have to admit that I didn't realize that Boston TPC and Boston GC were two different courses until today.  I simply can not stand the TPC course so was misguided on the Boston work.
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