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John Chilver-Stainer

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Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« on: December 17, 2014, 05:27:12 PM »
In some locations good traditional bunker sand is very expensive or difficult to get hold of and if the site is really windy can just get blown away.

On the Playitas course I designed in the Canary Island of Fuerteventura we decided to use a local volcanic sand called pikan for the occasional fairway bunker. It is inexpensive and has a rich brown colour which match the landscape.



In the  photo the pikan bunkers guard the right hand side of the fairway but only come into play for the shorter player. The sand in the foreground is wind blown sand from the sand depot for the greens and tees during the construction.

I've seen black volcanic sand bunkers but have yet to see a blue bunker!!!

Paul Gray

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Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2014, 06:29:12 PM »
John,

So do different bunkers on the same course have different sand?
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2014, 07:18:57 PM »
Paul,

At Playitas they do.

Some of the more wind exposed bunkers in the fairways have pikan sand, otherwise the deeper greenside bunkers have normal sand.

One of the greenside bunkers is visible in this photo

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2014, 07:46:07 PM »
Coal Creek's (Alberta, Canada) bunkers use copper slag and have a black / dark brown color:



Same with Old Works in Montana:

« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 07:49:10 PM by Matt Frey, PGA »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2014, 07:57:55 PM »
Gary Player's course at Lost City in South Africa had red, yellow and white sand in three bunkers around a single green.  That was weird.  But I find nothing wrong with using local and inexpensive materials as shown in the examples above.

The tragedy is those courses where they ship in bunker sand from 1000 miles away so it will "perform" better, such as courses in Florida using sand from Ohio, at 3x the cost.

John Cowden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2014, 09:06:32 PM »
Aspen Lakes GC in Sisters, Oregon, outside Bend, uses red crushed lava rock in its bunkers.  The Cascades are ancient volcanoes, some more ancient than others (see Mt. Saint Helens), and several can be seen from the course.  The "rock" is an intriguing touch.  And it's not as rough on your wedges as you may think.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 09:26:42 PM »
I really liked the color and consistency of the sand at Old Town, which (correct me if I'm wrong, Dunlop), comes from the nearby riverbed. The Yadkin?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2014, 10:37:09 PM »

Gary Player's course at Lost City in South Africa had red, yellow and white sand in three bunkers around a single green. 

That was weird. 

But I find nothing wrong with using local and inexpensive materials as shown in the examples above.

The tragedy is those courses where they ship in bunker sand from 1000 miles away so it will "perform" better, such as courses in Florida using sand from Ohio, at 3x the cost.

Tom,

That's an interesting phenomenon.
More likely a trend and concession to "can you top this", which seems to be systemic in Florida, irrespective of the topic/issue.

I just had a discussion with Bob Randquist, the Super, Super at Boca Rio, about the sand they use.

If I recall correctly, I believe he said it was local, "Florida Superior 100" or something like that.

What surprises me is that you'd think with the economy and financial difficulties clubs are experiencing, that this would be a natural area to cut costs while not compromising quality.


Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2014, 11:10:43 PM »
We've got localized sand at a course we're working on now, but the brass is very much concerned with getting different types of sand from all over tested for shape (sub-angular), perc rates, etc.  You dig down anywhere on this site and there's an abundance of naturally colored sand that drains well.  I can't imagine quantity would be a problem.  I have no idea what the perc rate is, but i know the entire drainage system on site is based around hitting this layer with sumps.  No idea what the shape is and if it's sub-angular enough to prevent fried egg lies.  Don't know if i really care, either.  Maybe that's a preference.  Seems like if sand is on site you should use it, similar to what the above courses have done.

So my question is when did testing sand become a common practice and who first came up with the idea?  I'm sure it makes someone a lot of money.  Is it a useful practice or is it just another niche someone carved out in the convoluted golf construction industry?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 12:18:38 AM »
So my question is when did testing sand become a common practice and who first came up with the idea?  I'm sure it makes someone a lot of money.  Is it a useful practice or is it just another niche someone carved out in the convoluted golf construction industry?

Blake:

They started testing sand for USGA greens back in the late 1960's.  Sometime in the late 1980's [to the best of my memory] someone came up with the theory that bunker sand from greenside bunkers might "contaminate" the greens mix so they should test it to see if it was compatible ... leading quickly to Jack Nicklaus and other top designers insisting on getting an ideal sand for bunkers.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 08:47:07 AM »
I like hollows and depressions that are coloured shades of green, ie no sand, just grass.
atb

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 08:56:42 AM »
So my question is when did testing sand become a common practice and who first came up with the idea?  I'm sure it makes someone a lot of money.  Is it a useful practice or is it just another niche someone carved out in the convoluted golf construction industry?

Blake:

They started testing sand for USGA greens back in the late 1960's.  Sometime in the late 1980's [to the best of my memory] someone came up with the theory that bunker sand from greenside bunkers might "contaminate" the greens mix so they should test it to see if it was compatible ... leading quickly to Jack Nicklaus and other top designers insisting on getting an ideal sand for bunkers.

Tom,
Was Nicklaus out front and vocal on this? Or is he just an example and everyone was on board for the trend?

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 09:12:55 AM »
A few of the Kauai courses use the local "red dirt" sand, which looks great on those layouts.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 09:13:39 AM »

Gary Player's course at Lost City in South Africa had red, yellow and white sand in three bunkers around a single green. 

That was weird. 

But I find nothing wrong with using local and inexpensive materials as shown in the examples above.

The tragedy is those courses where they ship in bunker sand from 1000 miles away so it will "perform" better, such as courses in Florida using sand from Ohio, at 3x the cost.

Tom,

That's an interesting phenomenon.
More likely a trend and concession to "can you top this", which seems to be systemic in Florida, irrespective of the topic/issue.

I just had a discussion with Bob Randquist, the Super, Super at Boca Rio, about the sand they use.

If I recall correctly, I believe he said it was local, "Florida Superior 100" or something like that.

What surprises me is that you'd think with the economy and financial difficulties clubs are experiencing, that this would be a natural area to cut costs while not compromising quality.


Patrick,

No one knows more about the current state of bunker cost/ maintenance than Bob Randquist. Several years ago he did the most comprehensive cost analysis of bunker maintenance that I have ever read. One of the games true gentlemen as well......

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 09:19:14 AM »
Bunkers sand gets tested both for compatibility with green sand, and by the penotrometer test, to determine whether it is  prone to fried egg or buried lies.

Talked to a superintendent at a high end club here yesterday, and he had the interesting (and implemented) idea of blending two whitish local sands together to get those "perfect" play characteristics members wanted without importing Ohio or Arkansas sand, which are both over $100 per ton.  I am going out to see that one. 

I don't like the idea of bunker sand getting even more complicated, but I do like the idea of using local materials to save cost.  I can't recall anyone doing that, but it is possible some blend of two sands might get the right characteristics.  Of course, blending different sands sometimes leads to hard packed sand, too.  It would require some testing.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2014, 10:25:46 AM »
I agree 100% with the idea of using local materials. The idea of sand on all golf courses isn't real natural, but there aren't too many places where there isn't a sand source within 50 miles....many times much closer than that.

The only time I advocate avoiding certain sands has nothing to do with playing characteristics or color. The issue of avoiding certain sands should primarily be whether it is coarse enough to stay in place for a particular sites' wind conditions. Fried egg? Harumph!

Play it as it lies and stop the in-sand-ity.......

(The above statements are generalizations. There are always exceptions to the rule.)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2014, 10:29:52 AM »
I agree 100% with the idea of using local materials. The idea of sand on all golf courses isn't real natural, but there aren't too many places where there isn't a sand source within 50 miles....many times much closer than that.

The only time I advocate avoiding certain sands has nothing to do with playing characteristics or color. The issue of avoiding certain sands should primarily be whether it is coarse enough to stay in place for a particular sites' wind conditions. Fried egg? Harumph!

Play it as it lies and stop the in-sand-ity.......

(The above statements are generalizations. There are always exceptions to the rule.)

Joe

Harumph!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2014, 11:18:13 AM »
Why make smart and interesting and sustainable and un-traditional choices regarding the type and colour of bunker sand, and yet feel compelled to craft the exact same kind of amoeba-shaped bunkers we've seen for 50+ years and that a course like Augusta features so prominently (in conjunction with its bleached-white sand)? To my eye it's truly jarring: an attempt at something organic/natural offset by the wholly un-organic and unnatural.
Peter
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:52:20 AM by PPallotta »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 08:16:31 PM »

Tom,
Was Nicklaus out front and vocal on this? Or is he just an example and everyone was on board for the trend?

Keith,

No, Jack was not vocal about it from what I recall.  However, once he started insisting on it for his designs, contractors told everyone that was the new standard, so we should do it, too.  Perhaps the contractors even convinced Jack it was the way to go.

Ironically the one course I remember on Kauai which had the native bunker sand was Jack's Kiele Course ... the bunker sand there was so heavy after a rain that I didn't see how anybody could play out of it.  All it takes is a couple of examples like that to make you look bad and start insisting on a certain spec, no matter how much it costs.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 03:50:56 PM »

Gary Player's course at Lost City in South Africa had red, yellow and white sand in three bunkers around a single green. 

That was weird. 

But I find nothing wrong with using local and inexpensive materials as shown in the examples above.

The tragedy is those courses where they ship in bunker sand from 1000 miles away so it will "perform" better, such as courses in Florida using sand from Ohio, at 3x the cost.

Tom,

That's an interesting phenomenon.
More likely a trend and concession to "can you top this", which seems to be systemic in Florida, irrespective of the topic/issue.

I just had a discussion with Bob Randquist, the Super, Super at Boca Rio, about the sand they use.

If I recall correctly, I believe he said it was local, "Florida Superior 100" or something like that.

What surprises me is that you'd think with the economy and financial difficulties clubs are experiencing, that this would be a natural area to cut costs while not compromising quality.


Florida Superior and GASH supply a sand called, G-Angle, VERY similar to Ohio's Pro-Angle. (I think its more angular) It's between 1/4 and 1/3 the cost of Pro-angle and being used throughout FL for bunker sand. The quality and availability cannot be beat!
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2014, 04:02:44 PM »
Sand Hollow Golf Club outside St. George, UT has very unique sand. The area is surrounded by gorgeous red rocks and red sand. They use the local sand for their bunkers and it is very dramatic, yet fits perfectly with the surrounds.

SandHollowPar3

SandHollow

Brandon Urban

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 04:08:24 PM »
Colbert Hills in Manhattan, KS uses purple sand in their cat paw bunker on the par 3 5th. It's actually much brighter than this picture shows.

181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Thomas Dai

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Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2014, 04:09:00 PM »
Pink sand for LPGA events?

Will it happen? Indeed has it happened?

Atb

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2014, 04:30:53 PM »
Pink sand for LPGA events?

Will it happen? Indeed has it happened?

Atb

Sexist.  ;D

I believe a number of Moroccan courses have sand a similar colour to that at Sand Hollow.

As an aside, love the look of the hole in the second pic from Stephen Davis.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

MClutterbuck

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Re: Alternative colours for Bunker Sand
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2014, 08:11:24 AM »
I agree with Joe. Sourcing materials locally should always be a top priority and often results in a big environmental benefit and savings. I find some designers/builders have their list of materials they are comfortable with and prefer not to innovate. An owner that is truly worried about sustainability and costs should always ask the right questions, and sourcing of sand should be at the top of that list.

In our case, we were hoping to use volcanic sand througout the course, since we could source it within the property or from a quarry less than 2 kilometers from the course. We were looking forward to dark bunker sand. Once we had it tested, we were fortunate enough to find it to be excellent greens mix for our bent grass greens. However, once we started shaping greens, we found the sand flew away very easily. In fact, we had to irrigate greens much more often that normal for 3 weeks and maintained them covered for 3-5 weeks. We were finding sand and 2 week old bent grass was flying away. See below the sand color and greens being covered after seeding.



We should have suspected this to be the case when 2 years earlier a nearby volcano erupted (a 1 in 400 year event), blanketing the property in 2 inches of sand. Less than a year after most of the sand had cleared or incorporated in the soil. During the eruption, homes and cars in Buenos Aires, 1000 miles away were covered in fine sand, and airports closed thoughout the country. Sand was found flying around half a world away.

Every source of sand in the region had the same trouble, plus a horrible fried egg test. We ended up having to truck sand from 260 miles away, the closest source we could find of coarse sand that would not fly in our windy conditions. Transportation ends up being 80% of the cost. We ended up filling bunkers 2 weeks ago with whiter sand than we hoped for, however it should get darker with time. See below.



 

« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 09:48:00 AM by MClutterbuck »

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