[Dan Kelly]

Great article and thread. I played baseball in central Kansas from the time I could walk. I still play in a Friday night softball league (to drink beer with the buddies) as well as an over-30 baseball league. I love the game, the strategy, the people, and the history.

A couple of years ago we took the kids to Chicago. I had never been to Wrigley and a friend hooked me up with tickets to an afternoon game. I was in heaven. My wife, the 12 year old boy, and 10 year old girl were not. They were bored out of their minds by the first pitch. Asking to leave by the 2nd inning. I left that living museum that day (after making them stay for all 9 glorious innings) thinking there was no hope. But then a funny thing happened.

Our Kansas City Royals had a magical year... after 29 awful ones. They captured the heart of the entire community. My family was not spared. We watched every playoff and World Series game together (except for Game 1 which I was fortunate enough to attend while checking an item off of my bucket list). My 11 year old daughter cried at the end of Game 7. She was fully invested. Now she constantly asks when pitchers and catchers report. The 13 year old boy has a renewed interest in playing catch in the backyard. They love it.

I guess all I'm saying, in a round about way, is that sometimes you just need a kick in the pants. Something to flip the switch. I think that happens in cycles. Sure, neither game is necessarily growing right now, but there will always be something that pours new fans/players back into the game. There will always be a reason for a boy to walk 9 with his dad or for his daughter to help him finish off a bag of peanuts on a summer night at the ballpark.

Great post, Brandon. Thanks. (BTW: The Minnesota Twins had their most recent magical season while my sports-fanatic daughter was in utero. I think she got the bug before she was born! We're hoping for another one before one of us is in the grave! [There I go again. More winter-gallows "humor."])

P.S. Have we gone a full page into this thread without anyone's mentioning the one serious problem that baseball (as a spectator sport) and golf (as a participant sport) have in common?

Three little words, gentlemen: Pace of Play.

I did NOT stay for the end of most of this year's baseball playoff games. I stayed only till I thought I could see the ultimate outcome -- and, thankfully, I was right every time. (Exceptions: I stuck around for the end of Bumgarner's games, even though the outcomes were never in the slightest doubt. You can't turn away from genius just to catch up on your sleep.)

I do wonder how many "golfers" give it up because, at public courses anyway, it almost always takes too damned long to play. Me, I get enough traffic jams Monday through Friday.

[jeffwarne]

I grew up with baseball as a fan and a player-really loved it.
But I can't imagine a more boring game as a player(for those who don't love it)-unless you're a pitcher or a catcher of which I was both.

7 guys watching one guy pitch and one catch, 8 guys watching their teammate bat.zzzzzz
Makes golf seem downright exciting
certainly boring to practice if a coach doesn't break up into groups with multiple rotating stations.

There are better choices for kids, though I still love attending games as a father and a fan.

[Brandon Urban]

Great point about pace of play, Dan. I'll relate it back to my kids. They both play soccer, watch soccer, live soccer, etc. The great thing and what they love about the sport is that it is 45 minutes of nonstop, 15 minutes to rest, and then 45 more minutes of nonstop. There are no timeouts and you can count on a game being over in 2 hours or less (most of the time). Baseball, in contrast, is the slowest of slow, thus the hatred.
It fits perfectly with golf and public play. That's where I spend the majority of my rounds now and I have to go on a weekday morning or early afternoon or I would probably throw my clubs in the nearest man-made water hazard and walk off, never to return.

[jim_lewis]

In my youth, my life revolved around baseball, and to this day, the happiest moment of my life was when the Dodgers beat the Yankees in the 1955 series.

My fear for baseball today is the decline in interest among the kids, and I blame that largely on night baseball, especially the All-Star game and the World Series. The games are just on too late for most school-age kids.

Also, little league baseball has become too expensive of some low income families. The boys I coached showed up with a large bag with a couple of $75 bats, two gloves, batting gloves, and their personal helmets. We had a tough time recruiting players, especially minorities even with "scholarships".

Have you noticed the dramatic decline in African American big leaguers since the hey day of Aaron, Mays, Robinson, Gibson, Stargell, etc.?

Then there is youth baseball's greatest enemy.....Soccer.

[jeffwarne]

In my youth, my life revolved around baseball, and to this day, the happiest moment of my life was when the Dodgers beat the Yankees in the 1955 series.

My fear for baseball today is the decline in interest among the kids, and I blame that largely on night baseball, especially the All-Star game and the World Series. The games are just on too late for most school-age kids.

Also, little league baseball has become too expensive of some low income families. The boys I coached showed up with a large bag with a couple of $75 bats, two gloves, batting gloves, and their personal helmets. We had a tough time recruiting players, especially minorities even with "scholarships".

Then there is youth baseball's greatest enemy.....Soccer.

Actually Jim, the enemy of both soccer and baseball is...
travel ball
Mediocre kids travel to play mediocre kids when everybody's elite.(that is if they write the check)
Such a waste of time and money for most involved and to the detriment of local volunteer programs.
Many towns and communities used to thrive on local games-nobody (other than a parent) is travelling to an all day tournament three hours away-to say nothing of the fact that it's priced out some in both money and time allotment, while crippling the local leagues they used to get their start in
I know many disagree.

[jim_lewis]

Jeff:

I agree completely. The same applies to youth hockey.  My oldest grandson who is only 9 was asked to join the travel hockey team at an estimated annual cost of about $3,000, which meant several weekends a few hours out of town. No way.

I especially miss  unorganized neighborhood baseball. When I was a kid, we had an open field across the road from my house. Every Sunday afternoon and many summer days a dozen or more boys would gather to play baseball. We used taped up bats and balls and shared gloves.

I just turned 72 and the thing I miss most from my youth is playing baseball, listening to games on the radio, arguing with my classmates about players and teams, and memorizing my baseball cards.

These days its hard to find a serious baseball fan to talk/argue with.

I am sure baseball is not dead, but the experience that meant so much to me is.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff:

I agree completely. The same applies to youth hockey.  My oldest grandson who is only 9 was asked to join the travel hockey team at an estimated annual cost of about $3,000, which meant several weekends a few hours out of town. No way.

I especially miss  unorganized neighborhood baseball. When I was a kid, we had an open field across the road from my house. Every Sunday afternoon and many summer days a dozen or more boys would gather to play baseball. We used taped up bats and balls and shared gloves.

I just turned 72 and the thing I miss most from my youth is playing baseball, listening to games on the radio, arguing with my classmates about players and teams, and memorizing my baseball cards.

These days its hard to find a serious baseball fan to talk/argue with.

I am sure baseball is not dead, but the experience that meant so much to me is.

+1
played a lot of sandlot ball-had a lot of cards the hard way (i.e. chewed a lot of rock hard gum )
I will say sadly I'm no longer a serious fan.
Used to love listening to my Braves on the radio (before they were good)

[Jason Connor]

I have friends who have this debate and I always point out that the 1961 Yankees drew an average of 21,500 home fans.

26 of 30 teams beat that in 2014.  12 teams beat that by 10,000 fans per game.



The biggest irony to me in the comparison of baseball & golf declining:  MLB stadiums (the playing surface) is actually getting smaller while golf courses are getting dramatically larger.

[jim_lewis]

here is how golf and baseball are similar. Baseball at the highest level including college is thriving. At the amateur and youth level, not so much.

[Greg Holland]

Also, little league baseball has become too expensive of some low income families. The boys I coached showed up with a large bag with a couple of $75 bats, two gloves, batting gloves, and their personal helmets. We had a tough time recruiting players, especially minorities even with "scholarships".

As the father of an avid baseball player - baseball bats have gone the way of Drivers.  You are hard pressed to find a new bat for less than $250 these days, and most are more.  Of course, like clubs, you can wait until the end of the model year, and get one a bit cheaper.

Travel ball has turned into a money making machine.  It used to be the kids that were really good played travel ball through all star teams or what have you.  Now, too many parents think their kids are good enough to play travel instead of rec, and there are lots of teams that really have no business playing at the level they play at.   

[Jud_T]

When the Cubs win the World Series in 2018 it will make the Super Bowl look like one big half-time show and the NBA like the 4th quarter poseurs that they are.  And don't get me started on soccer.  Grown men will be crying buckets of tears.  Nothing can quite evoke emotions like generations of fathers and sons tossing a ball. I know Rogers Hornsby Hit .424 in 1924 and that Babe Ruth replaced George Halas in right for the Yankees.  Walter Johnson had a WAR of 16 in 1913 and Hack Wilson had 191 RBIs in 1930.  I couldn't care less how many yards OJ gained in a single season, how many points LeBron's gonna rack up before he gets it saved for posterity in ink or what Jonathan Quick's save percentage is.  Baseball allows you to get inside it like no other major sport.  There's a history and leisureliness to the game, as in golf, that can seem mundane to the casual observer, but for the true aficionado there are endless depths to be plunged.

[jim_lewis]

Jud and Greg:

I agree with everything you both said except the part about the Cubs winning the Series. They have to win the NL pennant first. And to think, just  a few years ago I thought $75 for a little league bat was ridiculous. I played a lot of baseball in the 50's and early 60's, and don't think all my bats cost $75, Total. And I never owned but 3 gloves, total, until I bought one a few years ago when I was coaching little league.

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