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Sven Nilsen

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1922 Mystery Photos
« on: November 19, 2014, 05:04:02 PM »
In 1922 the Bristol Steel Shaft Company ran a series of Ads in Golfers Magazine.  Each Ad featured a photo, most of them with fairly striking features.  I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on what holes or courses are pictured (the Ads didn't identify the courses, but I do know the answer to one of these).

A.


B.


C.


D.


E.


F.


G.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 06:11:16 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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Matthew Essig

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 05:07:56 PM »
Really cool find, Sven!!!!

Is G that long par 3 from Oak Hill?
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Mark Bourgeois

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 05:12:07 PM »
I swear I've seen B in / around Pinehurst.
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jeffwarne

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 05:14:44 PM »
Is B Augusta CC?
hill course #6?
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Peter Pallotta

Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2014, 06:07:35 PM »
Thanks, Sven. Very interesting -- courses seemed more themselves back then.  Or to put it another way, each course looked like nothing but itself, and more like itself than it did any other course. There's something bold in each of those photos, a kind of proud uniqueness. Ive said it before here and maybe I'm dead wrong, but for all the truly great work in modern gca we seem to be living in very conservative (or perhaps just cautious) times.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 06:09:31 PM by PPallotta »
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Matthew Sander

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 06:31:07 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on November 19, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
I swear I've seen B in / around Pinehurst.

Mark,

To my eye, B resembles Pine Needles #5 a bit.
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Jim Sherma

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 06:51:56 PM »
I think F is the Links Club on Long Island by CBM.
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 06:55:37 PM »
Quote from: Jim Sherma on November 19, 2014, 06:51:56 PM
I think F is the Links Club on Long Island by CBM.

Correct.  That's the only one I know.



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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jonathan Mallard

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 06:58:30 PM »
Quote from: Matthew Sander on November 19, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on November 19, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
I swear I've seen B in / around Pinehurst.

Mark,

To my eye, B resembles Pine Needles #5 a bit.

My first thought was #8 at Mid Pines.

My second thought was did it exist at that time?
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 07:24:53 PM »
Is "G" the 10th hole at Valley Club, Montecito?

Edit: Nevermind. The picture predates VC opening by about a decade
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 08:01:06 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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Matthew Sander

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 07:30:02 PM »
Quote from: Jonathan Mallard on November 19, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: Matthew Sander on November 19, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on November 19, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
I swear I've seen B in / around Pinehurst.

Mark,

To my eye, B resembles Pine Needles #5 a bit.

My first thought was #8 at Mid Pines.

My second thought was did it exist at that time?

Yeah, the 1922 date would eliminate Pine Needles as a possibility. Mid Pines could still be a candidate, but IIRC there isn't that severe of a valley between tee and green on the 8th hole (at least in its current iteration/location).
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Dean DiBerardino

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 09:12:10 PM »
"E" is the 13th at Mayfield.

Here's a recent image....

« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 09:18:09 PM by Dean DiBerardino »
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BCrosby

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 07:44:37 AM »
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 07:47:33 AM »
Bob, that's quite a find and quite a loss of three astonishing bunkers on the 13th at Mayfield.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 08:30:51 AM »
Awesome find!  I love the lace bunkering on the outside of 13 at Mayfield!

Mark
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Bret Lawrence

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2014, 09:54:38 AM »
Pictures A., C., and D. have a lot of spectators in the shot.  I wonder if  C. is from the 1921 US Open at Columbia Country Club? Maybe it's the 18th hole, from the clubhouse?
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jeffwarne

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2014, 10:03:37 AM »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

RJ_Daley

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2014, 04:07:09 PM »
If I am not mistaken, Ross had an endorsement deal with Bristol clubs and shafts.  While someone already I.D.d a non-Ross course, could most of these be photos of courses done by GCAs and players with Bristol endorsements?
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2014, 06:02:59 PM »
Here are the options for championship events leading up to and including 1922 -

US OPEN - Brae Burn, Inverness, Columbia, Skokie

US AM - Oakmont, Engineers, St. Louis, TCC

PGA - Engineers, Floosmoor, Inwood, Oakmont
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bret Lawrence

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2014, 06:42:39 PM »
In 1919 The Western Open was at Mayfield, so maybe we should include the Western Open too?

Mayfield, Olympia Fields, Oakwood, Oakland Hills
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2014, 07:17:18 PM »
Quote from: Bret Lawrence on November 22, 2014, 06:42:39 PM
In 1919 The Western Open was at Mayfield, so maybe we should include the Western Open too?

Mayfield, Olympia Fields, Oakwood, Oakland Hills

Good call.

There's a bit of OFCC (South) in that "C" photo. 
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2014, 12:04:24 PM »
Quote from: Bret Lawrence on November 21, 2014, 09:54:38 AM
Pictures A., C., and D. have a lot of spectators in the shot.  I wonder if  C. is from the 1921 US Open at Columbia Country Club? Maybe it's the 18th hole, from the clubhouse?

The photo marked "D" is from the Columbia CC in Chevy Chase Md.. The same photo heads a Feb. 1922 article by Cecil Leitch titled  "America".
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Bill_McBride

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2014, 04:06:36 PM »
Quote from: Jim_Kennedy on December 14, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: Bret Lawrence on November 21, 2014, 09:54:38 AM
Pictures A., C., and D. have a lot of spectators in the shot.  I wonder if  C. is from the 1921 US Open at Columbia Country Club? Maybe it's the 18th hole, from the clubhouse?

The photo marked "D" is from the Columbia CC in Chevy Chase Md.. The same photo heads a Feb. 1922 article by Cecil Leitch titled  "America".

#15?  Over the hill dogleg left toward the clubhouse. 
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2014, 04:17:27 PM »
Bill,
The caption says it's the 17th.
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1922 Mystery Photos
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2014, 08:57:09 PM »
A lot happened on the Mayfield hole between 1919:



1922:



and today:

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