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Steve_ Shaffer

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Grand Canyon University has agreed to take over Maryvale Municipal Golf Course in west Phoenix and sink $8 million into the site, making repairs and upgrading the clubhouse. In return, GCU's golf teams will use the course and the university will have naming rights.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2014/10/23/grand-canyon-university-renovate-maryvale-phoenix-golf-course/17813671/

http://news.gcu.edu/2014/10/gcu-redesign-manage-maryvale-golf-course/

https://www.phoenix.gov/parks/golf/phoenix-golf-courses/maryvale

Will be playing there soon before the work starts. Don't know if a golf course  architect is involved in the renovation.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 08:45:20 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Yost

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 11:27:16 AM »
Anyone with scuttlebutt on who the supervising architect will be?

The course is landlocked, and already with a compact routing.  It will be interesting to see how they will stretch the course to 7200 yards and add a 10,000 sqft clubhouse.

Stuff like this is what worries me:
"Some greens could be moved closer to water hazards to make par-3s more challenging, for example."

Just hoping this "sound bite" is not representative of the renovation philosophy. The only thing that realistically can challenge expert golfers is length and 7200 is not all that long. My concern is that they try to make the course "more challenging" using means that do nothing to challenge the college level golfer, but only succeed to inflict misery on the majority of players with average skills.   

Phoenix has but a few traditional style golf courses that are enjoyable and playable by the masses.  Hoping they don't turn Maryvale into another modern style courses that targets the visual aesthetic over playability.  


« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:31:35 AM by Tom Yost »

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 01:02:07 PM »
Paging Forrest Richardson !!!!
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 05:07:41 PM »
Haven't played there yet but from what I hear from some locals , there's not much room to stretch the course to 7200y.

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 03:29:35 PM »
I do not know any of the specifics. It appears like a good deal for the city and GCU. Obviously the Bell legacy could (and should) remain a part of the asset. As for the 7200 yard goal: That may come with some liability. Length for length's sake is never cost effective. Better to keep it pleasant and just creat a par 69 card for the macho boys.

Would be a fun assignment, but so far we have not been contacted.  
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:31:06 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Matthew Petersen

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 06:30:04 PM »
I'm not familiar enough with the routing to say how it can be stretched. The course currently tops out at 6646 and already it's a course jammed onto the property. It's a nice little course but just immensely over treed, which is an unusual condition here in Phoenix. Their "tagline" lately has been "get lost in the trees," which is just not a big selling point for me on a property where no trees grow native.

Losing a lot of trees would improve the course and open up some room for new length but as Forrest suggests, that also brings liability into the equation. Right now the only thing "protecting" a lot of tees and greens are big trees.

I question how much Bell is really left there to protect, but if you thin the foliage, maybe it shines through.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 11:59:43 AM »
Matt, Tom & Forrest

Maryvale closes on January 4.  Let's get out there and take some pics.

I just learned that John Fought is the golf architect for the renovation project.

http://johnfought.golfservers.net/home/john-fought.html


http://www.azfamily.com/news/Grand-Canyon-University-to-redesign-manage-Maryvale-Golf-Course-280350562.html
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 12:04:10 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bill_McBride

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2014, 12:12:00 PM »
Who has played it prior to the renovation?  Thoughts?

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2014, 01:24:03 PM »
The decision by the university to invest in this course seems bizarre to me. 

Why would they want to take on this risk?

I could see the U investing in making the practice facilities better for their golf teams.  But, renovating an entire golf course?

The press release from the University tells me they don't have a clue about running a golf course in 2015.  Their decisions are based on 1995 thinking.   :o

Isn't this somewhat similar to Papago's folly?




Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 05:48:14 PM »
Morgan,

Why? Grand Canyon U wants to go big time in college sports. They are now Division One in NCAA basketball , soccer and baseball and are members of the Western Athletic Conference.  Golf is next. Why not? The weather is a big recruiting factor and Jerry Colangelo is a big donor to the school where the Business School bears his name.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dave Givnish

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 06:15:14 PM »
Jerry Colangelo is a big Grand Canyon supporter. He has done what I think is a good job updating the Wigwam property. The city doesn't have the money to upgrade the facility. It isn't a big stretch to see that the renovation will be in good hands. Fought and Lehman redid Phoenix CC (about 10 years ago?).

What interests me is that Maryvale and Papago are both essentially being transferred from city control to private stewardship.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 10:45:20 AM »
This should be good for Phoenix golf for the following reasons:

1.  Colangelo, if he has some oversight control will make sure it is done well.  His track record speaks for itself.

2.  I suspect the Colangelo-Lehman relationship brought in Fought.  While I have never desired to play a Fought course for a second time, his work on public courses is decent and Phoenix isn't exactly a hotbed of golf architecture.

3.  The school has some deep pockets, the school president's son is the men's golf coach, having a golf course is usually an asset for a college or university, so it makes sense to me for them to acquire and renovate.

4.  I have not played the course, but in looking at it from the tired old clubhouse(someone was vacuuming in the pro shop at 3 PM when I was there) it looks like an ordinary William F. Bell course with too many trees.

5.  After years of losing millions of dollars from its golf operations, the City of Phoenix is finally making some changes.  They farmed out maintenance to OB Sports.    Getting Maryvale off their inventory of courses is a plus for the city.  The location is not prime, was losing money and it needs 7 figures in dollar renovations.  This is different than Papago which took a financially successful product, spent millions and brought in inexperienced management, the Arizonal Golf Association.  Today the city still technically owns Papago but is not responsible for it operations, profits or loses.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

jeffwarne

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2014, 10:50:08 AM »

3.  The school has some deep pockets, the school president's son is the men's golf coach, having a golf course is usually an asset for a college or university, so it makes sense to me for them to acquire and renovate.




Does anything else need to be said?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 01:09:59 PM »
If the money is largely donated than I approve  ;)

Otherwise, it's a lot of $ to spend on a non revenue sport.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2015, 07:14:23 PM »
I visited the course today but did not play because of lingering back problems. The course is flat as a pancake, a good walking course and heavily treed. It was busy with mostly walkers who were getting their last play before the course is closed for renovations. Many golfers were wearing jeans. One regular described the course as  "Encanto with more trees." Encanto is another Phoenix muni by W.P. Bell. There were no drawings on premises of the new design by Fought. It will be a tight stretch to get this course to 7200y. Currently, it's 6691y from the tips @ 71.2/121. Many doglegs, about 6 holes with water including a par3 over water(#4@ 162y from the tips) and greens that sloped back to front, some with character. The renovated course will open in the fall.

http://ktar.com/22/1795677/Maryvale-Golf-Course-getting-9-million-facelift

I took some pics but the non overseeded fairways provided no contrast as you can see in the pic in the above article so here are some pics I found online.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 08:32:53 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Yost

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2015, 10:50:45 AM »
Encanto dates back to the 30's and has been attributed to William Park Bell.

Maryvale and Papago are 60's efforts by the son, William Francis Bell.


That illustration of the island green is not what I hoped to see, but I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise. 







Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2015, 01:01:44 PM »
Tom,

Ooops. Both Encanto & Maryvale look similar.  ;D

Here's a better pic for Maryvale:



Let's be the first to play the new version of Maryvale in the fall. Should be an improvement over what 's there now.

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matthew Petersen

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2015, 12:45:37 PM »
Steve, that island green pic is #15 at the Blue (Patriot?) course at the Wigwam.

Tom Yost

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2015, 03:45:13 PM »
Steve, that island green pic is #15 at the Blue (Patriot?) course at the Wigwam.

Good eye Matt!

I respectfully withdraw the facepalm.



Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2015, 08:34:32 PM »
Matt,

The pic from Wigwam Blue has been removed. Here is a pic of #4 @ Maryvale:

« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 09:08:18 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2015, 02:46:00 PM »
Some words from Fought on his renoavtion:

Designed in 1961 by William F. Bell, creator of famed Torrey Pines in La Jolla, Calif. Among other courses, Maryvale is known for its mature trees, four lakes and large greens. Spread across 130 acres, the par-72 venue will be extended to more than 7,200 yards in preparation for college tournaments.

According to Fought, "The basic layout of the golf course is actually quite good. The holes fit together well. But after 50 years of neglect, the facility is totally rundown." He added that while Bell's basic routing and playing corridors will be retained, fairway contours will be introduced on the flat site to enhance drainage. To produce a more strategic test, Fought noted that all greens, tees and bunkers will be completely reconstructed.

The contractor is ready for the challenge. "We at Duininck Golf are excited for the opportunity to partner with John Fought and GCU on this project," said company principal Judd Duininck. "Working with great clients like John and GCU who share the same values as Duininck Golf makes for great projects. John has some unique design tweaks in store for Maryvale, and our team is anxious to bring these to life."

Duininck Golf recently teamed with Fought to complete a revival of the Donald Ross-designed Wilmington Golf Course in North Carolina.

"Duininck Golf has a proven track record," Fought said of the contractor. "I've worked with the company's construction crew before and they're really good. The site supervisors are excellent, as are the shapers. I'm delighted they've been hired."

Fought explained that a virtually new layout will be superimposed on the current Maryvale site, which is three miles west of GCU's main campus. "I am retaining the basic footprint, and the new holes as before will be framed by mature Aleppo pines, palms and eucalyptus trees, but the course itself will be brand-new."

Fought added that a vegetative edge of oleander will be planted around the course to buffer holes from passing traffic. The greens, he explained, will be slightly elevated, while the 80 fairway and greenside bunkers will be rebuilt and, in many cases, repositioned. Fifty-plus years of top-dressing will be cored out from the old greens and used to create subtle contours around the new putting surfaces.

Given its pedigree, the new facility will be a parkland-style course, not a target-style desert layout with limited turfgrass. Fought's design scheme features greens and tees within close proximity of each other to encourage walking.

"I always try to design courses that are classic and strategic, not penal," Fought said. The end result, according to Muller, will be a course with the potential to host an NCAA tournaments but also serve the needs of the neighborhood.

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/maryvale_golf_course_in_phoenix_to_undergo_renovations
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 01:16:10 PM »
I drove by Maryvale recently and construction is well under way.

Here's an article from last month:

http://www.pga.com/golf-courses/golf-buzz/maryvale-golf-course-getting-major-facelift-will-reopen-home-course-grand


I will be visiting the course soon to take construction pics as I have been granted permission by the architect. Stay tuned.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 04:40:53 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2015, 02:02:02 AM »
I met with John Fought at the course on Tuesday. He gave me a tour of the course during construction. I was impressed. I will post his drawings , then construction photos and the Master Plan. Later....
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 10:14:54 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matthew Petersen

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2015, 09:22:07 AM »
I met with John Fought at the course on Tuesday. Have gave me a tour of the course during construction. I was impressed. I will post his drawings , then construction photos and the Master Plan. Later....


Very cool, Steve. Really looking forward to this preview as I've been very interested in the plans for this renovation and how they're stretching all the new distance from such a compact site.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Maryvale GC (W.F. Bell) Phoenix, AZ
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2015, 04:52:46 PM »
Here is John Fought's Master Plan:

MASTERPLAN NARRATIVE  PART ONE

September 2014



PREFACE


Whenever I embark on developing a master improvement plan for an existing golf course there are many elements that carefully researched and must be taken into consideration. They include the history of the course, the state of the course’s vital infrastructure and most importantly, the owner’s needs and desires for the golf course. My vision for Maryvale is based on proven design principles that will provide permanence to the improvements not gimmickry to the golf holes. Tantamount to achieving permanence is building an infrastructure that utilizes modern construction methods that are cost efficient to construct while providing the tools necessary for the course’s maintenance staff to keep the course in top condition on a year round basis.
DESIGN PHILOS0PHY 

From my past experience of playing and working on golf course’s over the past 30 years I have learned that the playing characteristics developed during the ‘Golden Age’ of golf course architecture have proven to be the most popular and interesting. During this period (1920’s) the United States most revered golf courses were constructed by the period’s icons of golf architecture. This period included the works of Alister MacKenzie, Seth Raynor, George C. Thomas, A.W. Tillinghast and the most prolific of them all, Donald Ross. Their works include Winged Foot, Baltusrol, Chicago GC, Riviera, Pinehurst #2, Seminole and so on. In his book, The Future of Golf, modern historian Geoff Shackleford provides the following analysis:
“In the 1920s and early 1930s, golf architects advocated subtle and natural design features.  They placed artistically sculptured bunkers in well-chosen locations so that every shot created options and thus
interesting decisions for golfers of all abilities.  They were sensitive to the existing terrain.  Courses were easily walk-able.  Few of the master architects like MacKenzie or Ross fought the land, even if it meant they had to include an occasional blind shot.  The result for the golfer is a comfortable feeling of playing in natural settings, not over land re-configured and bulldozed for the convenience of carts, subdivisions, or visibility."

THE GOLDEN AGE OF GOLF COURSE ARCHITECTURE

Golf began in the dunes land of Scotland and later migrated around the world.  The game arrived in the United States in the 19th Century and spread immediately throughout the country, however, early course designs looked very primitive in style. Early in the 20th century golf course architecture in the United States began to improve when Scottish emigrants such as Donald Ross and Alistair MacKenzie arrived in America.  Prominent American architects such as A.W. Tillinghast, Charles Blair MacDonald and George C. Thomas began to design important courses as well. The common thread with these pioneers was their knowledge of the great courses in Scotland and, more particularly, St. Andrews.  During the period from 1915 through the early1930’s, which has been named “The Golden Age” of golf course architecture, most of the great historic championship courses were constructed in this country by the golden-age architects.
 The dominant element of golf architecture was the lack of major earthmoving. Since large earthmoving equipment was yet to be invented a golf course architect of this era had to integrate their courses into the existing land forms in thoughtful ways. Most of the work they produced was built within the confines of the existing ground contour while the strategic elements they built defined the playing characteristics of the golf course. The tee boxes were just that, often rectangular in form and slightly elevated so as to be simple to construct and maintain. Bunkers were carefully placed to promote thoughtful play as the player maneuvered his way around the golf course. In many ways golf courses from this era were like obstacle courses which required players to think their way around the hazards while testing their mettle. This is often regarded as the risk reward element so often discussed by today’s golf commentators.

CLASSIC GREENS DESIGN


 “………the character of the course depends upon the building of the putting greens. Putting greens to a golf course are what the face is to a portrait. The clothes the subject wears, the background, whether the scenery or whether draperies – are simply accessories; the face tells the story and determines the character & quality of the portrait – whether it is good or bad. So it is in golf…….teeing grounds, hazards, the fairway, rough, etc. are accessories.”

THE PLAN FOR MARYVALE

From my study of the existing golf holes and discussion with the leaders at Grand Canyon University, I am satisfied that the general routing of the golf holes is excellent. Generally the walk between greens and tees is short and the current routing takes advantage of the property’s mature tree cover. This mature tree cover provides a pleasant surrounding and should remain an important backdrop to the golf holes. With this in mind I have crafted a conceptual plan that enhances the current golf course by building classically improved features such as tees, greens and strategically placed bunkers. I believe that the reputation of the golf course can be greatly enhanced by developing a playing strategy that requires thoughtful play. Along with these changes it is vital that the course’s infrastructure be modernized. It is apparent that the golf elements have not been updated since it original construction in the 1960’s.

“My aim is to bring out of the player the best golf that is in him. It will be difficult to negotiate some holes, but that is what golf is for. It is a mental test and an eye test. The hazards and bunkers are placed so as to force a man to exercise mental control in making the correct shot.”          
     ~ Donald Ross, Golf Has Never Failed Me

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

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