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Sven Nilsen

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2015, 01:18:38 PM »
Bob:

Exmoor

Jim:

Do you have a date on that USGA Journal?

Dan:

Any more info on the Washington Park course?  There's a report of Tweedie's death that discusses a rudimentary course near Washington Park (39th and Indiana) from around that same time period (as well as early play in Jackson Park).  Don't think its the layout you're referring to, however.







"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 02:02:59 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Moore

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 11:58:36 PM »
On what Chicago course did Chandler Egan grow up playing?

Bob

Egan was first introduced to golf at Lake Geneva CC and also played quite a lot at Onwentsia. Exmoor was his home club.

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Adam Clayman

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2015, 09:23:18 AM »
Thanx Sven.

Is it implied CBM had something to do with Jackson Park?

Side note. The article calls CBM an American. Another example of journalistic errors?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Moore

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2015, 09:37:03 AM »
Adam,

CBM laid out the Washington Park course in the interior of the Washington Park racetrack in 1896.  Jackson Park came later and I have not seen anything indicating CBM had any role in the golf course there.
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tim_Cronin

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2015, 01:27:13 PM »
Adam,

CBM laid out the Washington Park course in the interior of the Washington Park racetrack in 1896.  Jackson Park came later and I have not seen anything indicating CBM had any role in the golf course there.

It was a big deal at Washington Park in 1897, when they lengthened the course and replaced steeplechase hurdles (think of the Grand National at Aintree) with bunkers!
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 03:00:28 PM »
H. Chatfield Chatfield-Taylor's remembrance of the beginnings of golf in Chicago. He mentions a few Scots hitting balls in Jackson Park, but not arranging a course.
 
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_36/outXXXVI05/outXXXVI05o.pdf
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Moore

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2015, 10:03:06 AM »
Since this has segued into the early history of golf in Chicago and I have extensively researched this for the book I'm working on, here is the early chronology of golf courses in the Chicago area.  I'm still filling in a few blanks but this is pretty complete and well documented.

1875 CBM and friend sink 3-4 cans and play on the grounds of Camp Douglas, a notorious Civil War POW camp located at 31st and Cottage Grove on the south side of Chicago. No other reports of CBM playing golf in Chicago until April 1892.

1887 first reported golf match in Chicago played by members of the Tweedie family (James, L.P. and Alec) and friend R. W. Chanler on informal links set up in Jackson Park close to the site of the Jackson Park links, the 1st public golf course in Chicago which opened 1899.

1887 Tweedie family members also play on informal links at the Wanderer’s Cricket Field.  The 39th Street Grounds aka South Side park served as the playing field of the Chicago Wanderers cricket team during the 1893 World's Fair. It was located on the north side of 39th Street (now called Pershing Road) between South Wentworth Avenue and South Princeton Avenue.. After Charles Comiskey built a wooden grandstand on the site in 1900, it became the home of the Chicago White Sox of the American League. It served as home to the White Sox first in 1900 as a minor league team, and then from 1901 to June 27, 1910 as a major league team.  Park later became home to Chicago's negro league teams.  

April 1892 Chatfield Taylor gets CBM to lay-out stakes for a course on bluff of Lake Michigan on the Lake Forest estate of Sen. Farwell.  Takes 2 years for Chatfield Taylor to build interest in golf.  CBM quoted in August 1892 "A number of men are pretty keen on golf here and have found a course on Senator Farwell's place along the lake where we have got a fairish links of about 10 holes"  The links are not without some disadvantage: they are too far, to small “but until we can do better they answer the purpose.”  “The ground is slightly rolling, has almost no underbrush, and although smaller than many other links having only ten holes, is as good as can be easily obtained.”  

July 18, 1893 Chicago Golf Club charter filed.

July 1893 Riverside GC organized but not incorporated.  Oldest Western Club still located on its original grounds.

August 26, 1893 Chicago Tribune reports golf played on new links in Belmont. Not sure if this is the date of Sir Henry Woods playing there.

May 1894 Belmont links described as  "16 holes, 8 out and 8 returning and are marked with white flags going out and red flags coming back.  Holes have names First Hole, Road, Hillside, Stile, Schoolhouse, Smith, Puffer, Osage, Swamp, Fence, Field, Gap, Deadhorse, Orchard, Old Home, Home distance is from 100 to 400 yds."

August 4, 1894 first competitive team match played between Chicago Golf Club and players from Lake Forest who had yet to form a club.  Held at Belmont  where “There were 18 holes each about seven inches deep and four inches in diameter, surmounted by flags which made them distinguishable from a distance.”  

August 11, 1894 return match played in Lake Forest on the links on Sen. Farwell's estate.  Note.  CBM did not play in these matches.

January 1895 CBM and CGC purchase Patrick Farm in Wheaton to replace inadequate links at Belmont. In March James Foulis arrives from St. Andrews as CGC greenskeeper/pro and work on championship 18 hole course begins.  Course would evolve over first few years and would be the first 18 hole course to host a USGA Championship in September 1897. Map of course published in early 1897, 1st golf map of a links in Chicago. 1st and 18th holes revised between date of map and September 1897 USGA Championships. Hosts 7 USGA Ams or Opens between 1897 and 1912.

1895  Lake Forest Golf Club founded with a 9 hole course on the McCormick Farm

1896 LFGC changed to Onwentsia GC and move to the Cobb's Farm Location. (9 holes in 1896 expanded to 18 in 1897.). Hosts US Am in 1899 and US Open in 1906.

March 1896 Lake Zurich Golf Club founded.  9 hole course.

April 1896 Washington Park 9 hole course laid-out.

Oct. 1896 Exmoor founded 9 hole course laid out in Spring 1897. Expanded to 18 in 1901

March 1897 Glen View Club founded 9 hole course laid-out Spring 1897. Expanded to 18 in 1898. Hosts US Am in 1902 and US Open in 1904.  

By 1900 there would be around 30 golf clubs in the Chicago area with Chicago Golf Club, Glen View, Onwentsia, Midlothian CC, Homewood CC (now Flossmoor), and Westward Ho having 18 hole courses.  






« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 10:08:55 AM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Sven Nilsen

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2015, 10:27:24 AM »
Dan:

Can you clarify the history of Riverside?

There are a number of confusing reports out there all of which I'm sure you've seen.  These include:

1893 - Havemeyer
1894 - The 1900 Harpers notes the course was laid out in Sept. 1894 by Robert Foulis
1896 - The 1899 Guide notes the present 9 hole course was laid out in 1896 by David Foulis
??? - The Green Book of 1901 notes the course was laid out by Havemeyer, Driver and Hannah.

Thanks,

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Dan Moore

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2015, 11:14:35 AM »
Sven,

Langford 1919.  ;-)

I don't have that at my fingertips.  I do know Riverside opened a new 9 hole course in 1896 and Robt Foulis didn't arrive in Chicago until June 1895 with David coming to the CGC in 1896. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2015, 12:31:25 PM »
Dan,

So when does this book arrive?  I would be all in to be one of the first ten to buy......
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2015, 03:59:15 PM »
Anybody here care to tell the story of why Chatfield-Taylor has 2 Chatfields in his name?  It's pretty bizarre.

$$$$-lots of it.

 Wayne B. Chatfield (1839-1892) a "bachelor whose family pride was tenacious", left his nephew Hobart Chatfield 2.5 million dollars coupled with the stipulation the he add Chatfield to his surname. Hobart who was born with the middle name Chatfield then became known as Hobart Chatfield Chatfield-Taylor.

THis snippet from "Golf In America" has an interesting take on the rise of golf in the 1890s:

https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=TWygfs3jzQ0C&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&hl=en&pg=GBS.PR12
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 04:21:25 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Moore

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2015, 09:31:09 AM »
New name for my book  Early golf in Chicago: the Chatfield-Chatfields and the Oldest Macdonald.

Sven,

When I get home from my trip tonight I'll look at Riverside some more.  From what I found on my computer I'm not sure what I wrote about Riverside is 100% accurate and I'll see if I have any documentation on a Foulis connection.  I have a 1896 article on the layout that cites professional advice, but no name. 

Jeff,

Want to be the honorary chair of my Kickstarter campaign?  Hoping to have it finished late '16. 



"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: The First Daily Fee Course In Chicago
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2015, 07:52:52 PM »
Dave.
Could be, I have read that it was 3.5 mil in a couple of other places. Also, his father H.H. left the bulk of his fortune to charity when he died in 1875.
H.H. 'only' left Hobart $50k (ca. $1,087,000.00 today), but he contested the will and ended up with all of H.H.'s $2 mil pie (ca. $43,500,000.00 today)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 07:57:33 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

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