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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« on: September 08, 2014, 06:44:23 PM »
Intellectual curiosity comes in all varieties. To me, it is an absolute must for an architect to see new things and continually learn. Without doing so, one’s work is doomed to stall; n’est-ce pas? As much as any student of architecture, Tom Doak possesses a burning desire to expand his knowledge base. This month’s Feature Interview with Tom demonstrates those desires with the two quotes below from the Interview helping to substantiate that premise:
 
The one factor that means a lot more to me than to most reviewers is originality. I’m not so impressed by a course that offers just straightforward, solid golf … you don’t have to travel far from home to find that. But if a course has one terrific hole that isn’t quite like anything I’ve seen before, I probably overrate that course, relative to some other reviewers. I’m looking for something special.

AND

It is all about seeing something different or well done — whether it’s a single golf hole, a unique feature, the routing, a new architect’s work, whatever. I’m just hoping it is not all straightforward.

Tom’s (still boyish) enthusiasm for seeing new things has clearly not diminished and his soon to ship, updated The Confidential Guide Volume 1 on GB&I is a very handy by-product of that never-ending quest. Though Tom has now designed courses and written about golf course architecture in 4 different decades, his work on both fronts remains fresh, compelling and influential. You are never quite sure what he is going to say or do. Coincidence? I think not. As we exchanged emails about the book composition he was always on the go – once in Nepal, some in New Zealand or Europe and several times in the UK. His final journey for this new edition of The Confidential Guide was down the middle of England on a trip whereby the most noted course seen was Beau Desert (not a favorite of his FYI). Very few people make trips like that. It’s more likely a forced slog about ticking courses off someone else’s list.  :P The breadth of Tom’s trips surely help provide him an ever evolving perspective on the joys of the game which he then expresses in both design and writing.

Uniquely, his viewpoint represents a single yardstick upon which courses can be judged. Magazine rankings are by definition a group consensus of disparate views whereas Tom represents a unified perspective honed from four decades of critical observation. Thus, his grades and opinions serve as a useful benchmark. In the end, parsing words and judgment and debating the merits of courses is simultaneously educational, fun and ridiculous. The important thing is: IT HAPPENS. Prior to TCG and the internet, discourse was non-existent and mostly so too was good architecture for a sustained period of time. Without doubt, the impact that The Confidential Guide has had on the critiquing courses is vast. You see it every day in this Discussion Group. His grades are often a lightning rod for discourse and disagreement and sometimes disappointment.  Poor Noel Freeman has suffered the indignity of his beloved Cinque Ports saddled with ‘a Doak 6’ for years. Noel will be delighted to discover that Deal gets a nice bounce. 

Of course, Tom could not have guessed how much teeth gnashing his grades would engender. That puts pressure on him to be thorough. To expand his reach and offer additional input, he unnecessarily but very kindly asked Masa Nishijima from Japan, Australian Darius Oliver and me to chime in with grades and thoughts. Hopefully, after all our communication and opining, every course got a fair shake. That’s important because The Confidential Guide(s) has impacted hundreds upon hundreds of trips since its original release in 1988. No doubt places like Kington and Fraserburgh will benefit from this updated version’s fanfare on a go forward basis. That’s wonderful because it is only by exposing people to fun, non-championship courses that other fun, non-championship courses will ever get built!

Fleshing out Tom’s words, Angela Moser’s first-rate diagrams are a welcome addition to the new ‘Guide” as are all the GCA contributed photos. A couple of GCAers are even specifically mentioned! Personally speaking, it is a treat to be involved with such a famous brand and reminds me of working with Mark Rowlinson on The World Atlas of Golf. What a honor to play a small role in updating the two books most germane to the genesis of GolfClubAtlas.com.

For those who would like to purchase Volume 1, GB&I or sign up for the 5 volume set, I will post a link shortly in its own thread. Volume 2 on where to play in the Americas during winter will be out fall/winter 2015. And yes, that means that Tom will be out scouring such regions between now and then in hopes of seeing something new/different. Modern transportation and Tom’s past success makes his trips possible and agree or disagree, we all benefit when this keen student shares his observations in such a 'conversation inducing' manner.

Best,

Frank Pont

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 03:54:36 AM »
Ran,

thanks for another great interview, and also for your inputs to the new Confidential Guide.

I think it is great that Tom at the top of his career is taking significant time to write a series of books reviewing golf courses that will likely become a classic in the area of golf course architecture. (ironically I actually am a bigger fan of his Anatomy of a Golf Course. It has been read a lot more than my copy of the Confidential Guide).

The one thing that impresses me the most about Tom's participation here on GCA is not his frequency of contributing (although it is impressive, where does he find the time!) but the fact that virtually every contribution is well though out and well written. But maybe more important contains a quote I wish I had thought of.

My main wish now is that we find a way to collect all the great quotes/comments of Tom made on GCA over the years and collate them into a very thick book.

Now that would be a book I would recommend to every serious student of the field of Golf Course Architecture!

Sean_A

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 04:03:39 AM »
Tom

Thanks for taking the time to do the interview and thank you Ran for facilitating. 

Tom, where do you get info on which courses you want to see and what is it about those courses which attract you?  When you do see these courses, what percentage are positive hits compared to the ones which failed to impress?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Dunfanaghy, Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Thomas Dai

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 05:16:49 AM »
Very nice and a fine prelim to reading the book on release.

One of the things I like about Tom's 'Anatomy of a Golf Course' book is the diagrams so I'm looking forward to seeing the ones Tom and Angela have prepared for the 'new' C-G.

Interesting tale about Killin GC in Perthshire. Delighted to see Minchinhapton Old on the list of courses TD'd still like to see. Royal Guernsey too, an interesting choice. Any particular reason I wonder?

atb

Paul_Turner

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 07:12:14 AM »
Great stuff and can't wait to read the new books.   Fingers crossed that Tom liked most of the additional GB&I courses reviewed, even if the Doak ranking isn't all that high.

Good point on the Irish courses, they have gone crazy in recent years lengthening and remodeling.

Bets on the Doak 0 in GB&I?? 

Did the GB&I get a Gazette?
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 07:53:35 AM »
I found my copy of The Confidential Guide at Barnes and Noble when it first came out and loved it.  I argued with it more times than I could think.  I also did use it for travel. Others that helped with travel are Mark Rowlinson's book on golf in England and Wales and Jim Finnegan's three books on golf in GB&I.   I stopped my obsession with top 100 courses years ago.  As a result, I have played over 180 courses in GB&I, so this first volume should contain most of the ones I have played.  Unfortunately, I didn't keep copious notes on the courses so for many courses I only have fleeting memories. 
Will it be available on Amazon?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tom_Doak

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 08:21:26 AM »
Will it be available on Amazon?

Tommy:

As with the original book, I have paid to have them printed myself, and will sell them directly.  In fact I've formed my own publishing company this time, and am actively considering publishing other titles as well.

Technology makes this a lot easier than it was 20 years ago.  There should be a link to order the book on my web site today or tomorrow -- but they have been putting it off every day for a week now!  I'll let you know when it's live.

Will be back to answer questions tonight.  I'm looking for golf holes today. 

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 09:29:33 AM »
Thanks Ran for another insightful contribution to the interview series and to Tom for taking the time.
As with many awaiting the link toorder..thanks again.

JC Jones

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 10:55:17 AM »
Will it be available on Amazon?

Tommy:

As with the original book, I have paid to have them printed myself, and will sell them directly.  In fact I've formed my own publishing company this time, and am actively considering publishing other titles as well.

Technology makes this a lot easier than it was 20 years ago.  There should be a link to order the book on my web site today or tomorrow -- but they have been putting it off every day for a week now!  I'll let you know when it's live.

Will be back to answer questions tonight.  I'm looking for golf holes today. 

This is fantastic.  I am so glad that you are not using Amazon and are keeping things in house.  Today, more than ever, people can leverage the technology available and (try to) disassociate themselves from the Big Box.

I think it is truly remarkable, Tom, that you have continued to share your knowledge with the masses and us nerds should be very grateful for that.

One question that I assume will be answered, how much disparity will we see in the ratings given among the raters?  Are there courses, for example, where you gave it a 7 and Ran gave it a 4? 
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 12:50:15 PM »
Lloyd Cole is selling his new albums on the Internet himself, seems to be working.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 12:59:05 PM »
to paraphrase Veruca Salt... "I want it now"

John Mayhugh

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 01:12:20 PM »
Another enjoyable and educational interview.  While I'm sure to enjoy every volume of the new CG, the GB&I version is the one I most look forward to.

I wonder if there is anything that would be better for the game in the US than this:
Hopefully, the book will prompt some people to check out a smaller course they wouldn’t otherwise have included in their plans.

Glad to see someone way more knowledgeable than me does this too.
But if a course has one terrific hole that isn’t quite like anything I’ve seen before, I probably overrate that course, relative to some other reviewers. I’m looking for something special.

Jim Franklin

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2014, 01:49:54 PM »
Tom -

Do you include courses you designed in each book?
Mr Hurricane

Peter Pallotta

Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 02:14:52 PM »
Very nice indeed; congratulations to Tom and all involved.

It struck me that, while the Guide brings to mind (and focuses current discussions on) "ratings", this 5 volume set will in the decades to come serve future readers and afficianados differently, i.e. as a kind of "historical snapshot" of the great courses as they exist today, and of how a leading practitioner of the day viewed/assessed/understood those courses.

It is charming indeed to be around and watch the birth of our generation's version of Darwin's Golf Courses of the British Isles. It's fun to think that in 50 or 60 years, some young fan of golf course architecture will pick up Volume 1 and start reading, and get the same feeling as I do when I start reading Darwin on London area courses:

"...a new star, the star of sand and heather, has arisen out of the darkness, and a whole generation of new courses, which really are golf and not a good or even bad imitation of it, have sprung into being. Here are some of them, and they make an imposing list—Sunningdale, Walton Heath, Woking, Worplesdon, Byfleet, Bleakdown, Westhill, Bramshot and Combe Wood...The glorious golfing properties of this country of sand and heather and fir-trees have been discovered."

best
Peter

« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 08:57:35 PM by PPallotta »

Jim Nugent

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 05:19:03 PM »
Tom, will you offer a digital edition?

John Sabino

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2014, 05:33:17 PM »
Ran - Great interview as usual. As a charter member of the course-notching club  ;) I object to you and Tom characterizing us with a broad brush for two reasons. First, it is not such a bad goal to aspire to play someone else's list when it includes courses such as Merion, Ballybunion and Royal Dornoch. And second, playing courses on a list is not mutually exclusive with playing lesser-known courses. The first enables the second by virtue of traveling to so many places. I always try to play unique or below-the-radar courses when I travel and as a result have "discovered" places such as Jack's Point, Whippoorwill, Brora, Western Gailes, Nairn, Lossiemouth, St. Louis CC, Ballyliffin, Addington, Killarney and Westward Ho! among many others.

I eagerly await the new TCG series.

John
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Garland Bayley

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2014, 05:45:04 PM »
Great timing with Buda starting tomorrow. Do we get a preview of the Perranporth rating?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

PCCraig

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2014, 05:59:19 PM »
Great interview. Looking forward to subscribing to the new series of guides!
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2014, 10:00:54 PM »
I always try to play unique or below-the-radar courses when I travel and as a result have "discovered" places such as Jack's Point, Whippoorwill, Brora, Western Gailes, Nairn, Lossiemouth, St. Louis CC, Ballyliffin, Addington, Killarney and Westward Ho! among many others.

I eagerly await the new TCG series.

John

John:

Good for you.

By way of contrast, I know at least two guys personally who traveled all the way to Japan to knock off the 3 top-100 courses there in the 1990's, and "had to go back" to play Tokyo Golf Club a few years later because they couldn't make time for it originally ... even though it was right next door to Kasumigaseki !


Tom_Doak

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2014, 10:13:03 PM »
Tom, will you offer a digital edition?

Jim:

It is possible that we will do a digital edition someday, likely to continue to provide updates after the five volumes have run their course.  I might very well provide it free of charge to anyone who buys the five-volume set ... but I can't really offer that now, since I am not sure when or if it will happen.

If I do so, I have some ideas on how to expand the scope of courses covered significantly, but I don't want somebody else to beat me to it so I won't say how just now.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2014, 10:19:01 PM »
Tom -

Do you include courses you designed in each book?

Jim:

Yes, my own courses will be included in the books, and by the time we get there I'll have at least one course in each volume.  Possibly a couple of them will even make the Gourmet's Choice, though I did not score that honor in the very competitive field for Volume 1.

I will offer Doak ratings for each of my own courses, but I think most people will pay more attention to Ran and Darius and Masa's scores for those courses.

David_Elvins

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2014, 11:08:39 PM »
Tom,

Ran mentions in the OP about your burning desire to expand your knowledge base.  In this regard, how does visiting courses compare with reading the Discussion Board on this site.  Which would you say you get more out of? How do the practical (playing courses) and theoretical (reading the discussion board) compliment each other? 

To follow on: how, how much and what do you learn from building courses? 
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2014, 12:49:57 AM »
Tom,

Ran mentions in the OP about your burning desire to expand your knowledge base.  In this regard, how does visiting courses compare with reading the Discussion Board on this site.  Which would you say you get more out of? How do the practical (playing courses) and theoretical (reading the discussion board) compliment each other? 

To follow on: how, how much and what do you learn from building courses? 

David:

One of the things I get from the Discussion Board is a good sense of where people are doing different work and what other courses I might like to see.  Many of the course visits I've made in the past ten years were prompted by someone's posts here.

I have less interest in the theoretical topics here, because I see ALL of golf course architecture as situational -- making the best of what you are given, rather than blue-sky thinking.  I limit my blue-sky thinking to practical applications [i.e., what could I do with a big earthmoving budget that would be different than what everyone else does], and most of those solutions go back to golf holes and courses I've seen.

Which is not to say I don't learn from discussions on this board.  Mostly, I learn when people ask a good question, or think about a topic in a way I hadn't.  The book I've been reading suggests that a philosopher should have lunch with "the most brilliant minds in the field or complete amateurs, not other professionals," because the professionals have a laundry list of reasons you CAN'T do something cool, while the others ask why you DON'T.

As to your last question, I learn a lot from walking good land [as I did all day today in Wisconsin] and I learn a lot from being on construction sites and seeing what we can and can't build.  Holes almost never turn out exactly the way I visualize them, but sometimes they turn out better, thanks to the hard work of others and maybe an insight from me at just the right point along the way.  This goes back to the whole thing being situational.  We are working on puzzles, large and small, but always different.  That's why I never get tired of the job.

Jim Nugent

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 01:11:24 AM »
Tom, I hope you guys include Rock Creek in the US edition.   


Russ Arbuthnot

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Re: Feature Interview No. 4 with Tom Doak now posted
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2014, 01:17:16 PM »
Great interview. Looking forward to the books.

The quotes that Ran highlighted reminded me of this one:

When you come to think of it, that is the secret of most of the great holes all over the world. They all have some kind of a twist.—C. B. Macdonald

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