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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2014, 02:36:59 AM »
     Driving north from Wenatchee you see the magnitude of the recent fires. Miles of charred land on both sides of the highway. When you get to the small town of Pateros you see both the destruction of property and the valiant saves by firefigthers. Their course, Alta Lakes, lost the pro shop/living quarters and the maintenance building.
    Leaving Brewster you jog right onto Wa17 and there is a big sign 1/2 mile up the road. Sun in the eyes, understated writing, dirt road, gravel road - was this foreshadowing?
    Gamble Sands won't rate highest in Golf Digest, the resistance to scoring isn't there unless you step back a tee marker. That may not be a big problem because there is plenty of roll on the fairways. Kidd has borrowed the ribbon tee as they wind toward and enter the fairway.
The only step-down tee block I remember is on the par 3 6th.
   Ah, the lost Callaway. Even par through the fourth I was waved through a foursome. They had a forecaddie ($100/fourball), I didn't.
After hitting a drive on the 5th, which is reminiscent of Bandon Trails' 11th - hit it long and left- I had about 120 over a bunker. Ugly, ugly, pick up. Follow the sign to the next tee and am flummoxed. Par four nowhere to be seen. Decide its a blind tee like #3, pipe one southbound,
look at the scorecard, see I forgot to score the fourth and fifth. Turned around, hit it to 15'  on the northbound par 3, hurredly putt as the fourball is wating. Rush to play the 7th, great drive, don't realize it was a par 5, try to reach and card another max. Triple, double double.
    Back to golf courses. I don't know if architects try to balance out greens because the course is going to be played with a front/middle/back hole rotation. The day I played holes were set in zone 3 (back location on the 1st) and the setup was easy, only one difficult pin, on 17.
It would be hard to get a good opinion unless you played all three zones.
    The simplistic approach by Kidd got me in trouble. I tried to outthink him. You don't have to take chances. Wide fairway is just a wide fairway, you don't have to hit it to a specific section for a specific zone of the green. Most of the time you have an open green, sometimes a sideboard or backboard to help.
    Greens are 45-70 yards deep, macro-contoured, stimp around 8.5 in my estimation. Could go as high as 11+ and not cause too much stress on the puttee.
    It is 6 hrs by car from home, but I'd go back in a group situation as it was very enjoyable. It has an enormous vista and I think DMK did a very good job on scaling the course and hazards to its surroundings. Few uphill shots, mostly on the out half.
    Looking through my yardage book -
    #2 reachable par 4. Took it over the right edge of the center bunker. Hole high (zone 3 in front, 20 feet from the green, 40 feet from hole.
         Eagle.
    #3 Combination of Bandon Dunes 16 and Pacific Dunes 9th. Large horizon bunker, if you don't carry it will likely end up in an unraked footprint. Aim about 30 yds left of the right side stair and you'll be fine. Flight  over midway bunker to set up approach angle.
    #4 Biarritz green, the draw doesn't look deep until you look from the left side. I think the front portion is reverse cambered.
    #5 Long and left and you'll have a view of the green. Otherwards you'll have a long roll to the right like Bandon Trails 11
    #7 well placed bunker just short of landing area for lay up. Turbo off tee makes this reachable.
    #8 play the left side, towards the green, opens up tons of options.
    #9 backboard, but left backboard is deceivingly undersloped from fairway view. Still, use it for zone 3.
   #11 challenge the center hazard, you'll have a wedge in
   #12 challenge the bunker on the right side and you'll turbo home.
   #14 best hole on course
   #15 lots of left roll on the teeshot, play right
   #16 backboard   '          

How would I rate this course. Need to play. Very fun. Maybe in my top 25, but definitely in my top 50.  Probably tied for #2 public in Washington, probably in a tie with Wine Valley. That course has higher resistance to scoring, micro-contouring of greens, as well as macro-contouring. Far exceeds Desert Canyon. Of my recent courses comparable to Dismal-Doak. Restaurant was understaffed.

Far and away the best golf option for those vacationing near Chelan. I think this is their main market, and GS has stay and play packages here as well as one in Brewster (summer room rate about $170). I
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 05:57:46 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2014, 02:46:18 PM »
The simplistic approach by Kidd got me in trouble. I tried to outthink him. You don't have to take chances. Wide fairway is just a wide fairway, you don't have to hit it to a specific section for a specific zone of the green. Most of the time you have an open green, sometimes a sideboard or backboard to help.

Pete, you articulated perfectly my main disappointment in the course. Thinking is not required.  Kidd has swung the pendulum so far in his attempt to make golf fun that the course doesn't require much in the way of strategic decision making.  A good caddie would be stumped to come up with tidbits of advice to guide your game.  He would tire of saying "hit it down the middle" and "fire at the green, you have backboards and sideboards to help you".  Because of this, I can't put GS up there in as high a company as you compared it to.  Yes, it's fun. It's worth a play. However, it won't leave you second guessing your playing decisions, wondering what could have been and itching to get back for another crack at it.   

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2014, 04:57:01 PM »
I just booked a tee time for this Sat. I am ver excited to try this course. Let's hope Brent does not get us thrown out this time...

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2014, 04:59:17 PM »
Can't get passed that kilt.  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 05:54:09 PM »
Can't get passed that kilt.  ;D

What are your intentions? And, why would you want to get past the kilt?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ben Baldwin

Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2014, 06:49:05 PM »
Can't get passed that kilt.  ;D

What are your intentions? And, why would you want to get past the kilt?


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 09:03:23 PM »
A friend of mine who played Gamble Sands two weeks ago emailed me to say that if he hadn't known better he would have bet I had designed it.  I'm not sure if that will make David happy or piss him off  :)  But I am definitely never showing up in a kilt for the ceremonial first tee shot.  That's David's gig.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 11:26:40 PM »
The simplistic approach by Kidd got me in trouble. I tried to outthink him. You don't have to take chances. Wide fairway is just a wide fairway, you don't have to hit it to a specific section for a specific zone of the green. Most of the time you have an open green, sometimes a sideboard or backboard to help.

Pete, you articulated perfectly my main disappointment in the course. Thinking is not required.  Kidd has swung the pendulum so far in his attempt to make golf fun that the course doesn't require much in the way of strategic decision making.  A good caddie would be stumped to come up with tidbits of advice to guide your game.  He would tire of saying "hit it down the middle" and "fire at the green, you have backboards and sideboards to help you".  Because of this, I can't put GS up there in as high a company as you compared it to.  Yes, it's fun. It's worth a play. However, it won't leave you second guessing your playing decisions, wondering what could have been and itching to get back for another crack at it.   

Daryl,
but you don't know about strategic decision making until too late.  I was taking thirty years of learning how to an architect tends to protect certain areas and apply that to Gamble Sands, but DMK may have decided to go EIEIO.

With the size of the greens setting up potential 100-200 foot putts the green speed around 8.5 seems to increase the chance of three putting multiple times.


Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 11:29:28 PM »
Peter - what do you rank it in the Doak scale?  More importantly, is it worth the drive from Seattle / Portland?  Sounds like it.

     Driving north from Wenatchee you see the magnitude of the recent fires. Miles of charred land on both sides of the highway. When you get to the small town of Pateros you see both the destruction of property and the valiant saves by firefigthers. Their course, Alta Lakes, lost the pro shop/living quarters and the maintenance building.
    Leaving Brewster you jog right onto Wa17 and there is a big sign 1/2 mile up the road. Sun in the eyes, understated writing, dirt road, gravel road - was this foreshadowing?
    Gamble Sands won't rate highest in Golf Digest, the resistance to scoring isn't there unless you step back a tee marker. That may not be a big problem because there is plenty of roll on the fairways. Kidd has borrowed the ribbon tee as they wind toward and enter the fairway.
The only step-down tee block I remember is on the par 3 6th.
   Ah, the lost Callaway. Even par through the fourth I was waved through a foursome. They had a forecaddie ($100/fourball), I didn't.
After hitting a drive on the 5th, which is reminiscent of Bandon Trails' 11th - hit it long and left- I had about 120 over a bunker. Ugly, ugly, pick up. Follow the sign to the next tee and am flummoxed. Par four nowhere to be seen. Decide its a blind tee like #3, pipe one southbound,
look at the scorecard, see I forgot to score the fourth and fifth. Turned around, hit it to 15'  on the northbound par 3, hurredly putt as the fourball is wating. Rush to play the 7th, great drive, don't realize it was a par 5, try to reach and card another max. Triple, double double.
    Back to golf courses. I don't know if architects try to balance out greens because the course is going to be played with a front/middle/back hole rotation. The day I played holes were set in zone 3 (back location on the 1st) and the setup was easy, only one difficult pin, on 17.
It would be hard to get a good opinion unless you played all three zones.
    The simplistic approach by Kidd got me in trouble. I tried to outthink him. You don't have to take chances. Wide fairway is just a wide fairway, you don't have to hit it to a specific section for a specific zone of the green. Most of the time you have an open green, sometimes a sideboard or backboard to help.
    Greens are 45-70 yards deep, macro-contoured, stimp around 8.5 in my estimation. Could go as high as 11+ and not cause too much stress on the puttee.
    It is 6 hrs by car from home, but I'd go back in a group situation as it was very enjoyable. It has an enormous vista and I think DMK did a very good job on scaling the course and hazards to its surroundings. Few uphill shots, mostly on the out half.
    Looking through my yardage book -
    #2 reachable par 4. Took it over the right edge of the center bunker. Hole high (zone 3 in front, 20 feet from the green, 40 feet from hole.
         Eagle.
    #3 Combination of Bandon Dunes 16 and Pacific Dunes 9th. Large horizon bunker, if you don't carry it will likely end up in an unraked footprint. Aim about 30 yds left of the right side stair and you'll be fine. Flight  over midway bunker to set up approach angle.
    #4 Biarritz green, the draw doesn't look deep until you look from the left side. I think the front portion is reverse cambered.
    #5 Long and left and you'll have a view of the green. Otherwards you'll have a long roll to the right like Bandon Trails 11
    #7 well placed bunker just short of landing area for lay up. Turbo off tee makes this reachable.
    #8 play the left side, towards the green, opens up tons of options.
    #9 backboard, but left backboard is deceivingly undersloped from fairway view. Still, use it for zone 3.
   #11 challenge the center hazard, you'll have a wedge in
   #12 challenge the bunker on the right side and you'll turbo home.
   #14 best hole on course
   #15 lots of left roll on the teeshot, play right
   #16 backboard   '           

How would I rate this course. Need to play. Very fun. Maybe in my top 25, but definitely in my top 50.  Probably tied for #2 public in Washington, probably in a tie with Wine Valley. That course has higher resistance to scoring, micro-contouring of greens, as well as macro-contouring. Far exceeds Desert Canyon. Of my recent courses comparable to Dismal-Doak. Restaurant was understaffed.

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2014, 11:30:25 PM »
I just booked a tee time for this Sat. I am ver excited to try this course. Let's hope Brent does not get us thrown out this time...

Never been kicked off a course in my life sans Salish.  That was a strange day.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2014, 01:02:36 AM »
Brent asked : Peter - what do you rank it in the Doak scale?  More importantly, is it worth the drive from Seattle / Portland?  Sounds like it.

Only TD can answer that one. It could be as high as an eight, as low as a six. It is probably as remote as the Nebraska sand hills courses, being five/six hours from Seattle/Portland. It doesn't fit into an established niche of strategic/penal. I doubt if it is considered a destination course because it lacks lodging and I didn't search Brewster for motel quality. I haven't checked MapQuest for comparative travel time from both Seattle and Spokane to Brewster vs Walla Walla, but I guess it is similar. For Washingtonians it would be worth the trip from a golf standpoint.       Not so from Oregon as a regular destination, as it is 2x Wine Valley , 1.5x for Bandon and 2x for central Oreogn.

If someone put on a group outing, I'd be interested. But remember I think Sagebrush is worth a 7.5 hour drive, plus BC has upped their speed limits.

There are some courses where you feel you belong, feel like home. That's what I feel at Sagebrush and can see it at Ballyneal, Dismal or Sand Hills. As much fun as Gamble Sands provided, it didn't push me to that level.


Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Played Gamble Sands today New
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 07:07:40 PM »
Played Gamble Sands yesterday with my father. Here are my notes:

*Adventure! I have played in Scotland, Bandon, and many other places and I have never played a course that exemplifies adventure more than this one.
*Terrific routing. Green to tee transitions are, overall, short. At no point did I think that the routing should have been different.
*The fairways were the perfect amount of firm and fast.
*As Pete mentioned, positioning off the tee can greatly impact your approach. Take the risky play on many holes, and you are rewarded with a straight-forward approach, one where you are hitting straight on into the green without having to carry a bunker. Take the easy line or lay up and you have a much tougher approach.

-Standing on the 17th tee, the "bite off as much as you can chew" bunker on the right felt boring/overused due to the previous iterations on the other holes.
-As was mentioned, Kidd scaled it back on this course. The place where this was most evident was on the greens. The green surrounds were wicked, but a majority of the greens themselves were very large and quite docile.

Overall, we had a blast and we will absolutely go back.
The greens were fairly slow yet firm, which is expected of a first year course. It will be interesting to see if the micro-contours in many of the greens will play larger as the speed picks up. If they do, the course will be plenty tough. If not, the course will still give an easy and interesting day.
This course fills a gap in a trek across Washington State. I promise a trip consisting of Wine Valley, Gamble Sands, Tumble Creek, and some Puget Sound courses will not disappoint.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 07:21:01 PM by Matthew Essig »
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

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