[Jay Flemma]

Just some water cooler talk here, but if a course in England could replace Hoylake in the Rota, which one could it be? Also, these straight mowing lines at Hoylake look un-natural to me...almost cubist!  If Hoylake were the work of a master painter, which would it be?  Picasso?

[Jay Flemma]

Deal looks fun and I hear wonderful things about it from everybody.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Wow, Brian, I had the over / under on Deal in this thread at 2 replies. This has to earn you a spot on the leadership roster of the Deal Subtle Promotion Society. Congrats!!!

[David_Tepper]

The East Course at Saunton usually gets mentioned when this question gets asked. I have never played or seen it. In terms of both logistics (having a 2nd course for tents) and location, it has some merit.   

[Adrian_Stiff]

First reaction is none to any current one that has not hosted.

Deal already has hosted twice and should have hosted a few more times 1915, 1938 and 1949 logistically RSG must be better. The RCP members will know much more why the Open will/won't return. Princes (same story)

Not sure if Saunton East can be stretched enough golf wise. My quick fix to 7000 yards would need to see the 5th axed and a long par 3 into 7th on the west (245 yards) there is a great hole from there to the 6th on the east, 7 could also be played +70 yards and there is potential at 3, 4 and maybe 17 to get it up to the magic 7200. BUT 8, 9 and 10 suck for spectator movements. You could merge 3 holes in from the West and make it work as a golf course, perhaps at 7300. Logistics are also not great, it has a single road in for about 5 miles from Barnstaple which would probably take an hour.

Burnham & Berrow is another that might fall short on stretchability, singular road in same sort of problems.

Westward Ho! Ticks a few boxes outside of the golf ticks. Can't think of anything along the South.

Hunstanton on the east side is probably the best chance but miles off (that word again) logistically.

Saunton, Burnham and Hunstanton have never staged Amateur championships so I think they need to hit that bar. The AM champ needs 36 holes now (two close courses) that rules B&B out.

[Pete Lavallee]

Why is Walton Heath never mentioned? Surely the composite course which has hosted Open Qualifying and a Ryder Cup could work. Definetly long enough and with the extra course it has the room to host the Tented Village. Access from the M26 would allow the London crowd to attend. What am I missing?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Links

[Paul Gray]

Why is Walton Heath never mentioned? Surely the composite course which has hosted Open Qualifying and a Ryder Cup could work. Definetly long enough and with the extra course it has the room to host the Tented Village. Access from the M26 would allow the London crowd to attend. What am I missing?

Walton HEATH

[Bill_McBride]

Is it R&A by laws that the Open must be on a links, or just tradition?    Walton Heath would be a great venue. 

[Sean_A]

Its not hard to figue out why Walton will not and should not host an Open. 

Saunton, too far from anything and not really up to standard for an Open. 

Forget about Westward Ho! - way too easy unless they completely change the character of the course. 

Burnham, they could stretch the course a lot further, but this location doesn't make logistical sense, not even viable for an Amateur.   

Hunstanton - come on - forget it. 

Princes is just as difficult if not more difficult than Deal.  Tough to justify either place with Sandwich next door. 

All that said, I would be happy to see Lytham dropped for Deal or Princes, but I may opt for Formby as the choice replacement. The R&A seems happy to have two nearby hosts, so I can't see that being a reason to exclude Formby.  If they wanted, more yards could be added.  What am I talking about?  Why muck up Formby when Lytham is already a mess? Lets just keep things as they are.

Ciao   

[Mark Chaplin]

If there was to be another English venue it would replace a men only Sandwich, however it is looking likely they will vote to admit lady members so I wouldn't hold your breath. Lancashire is already over exposed and corporates want the South East.

My prediction is still Princes.

[Sean_A]

Chappers

Princes isn't a bad shout, but I have a hard time believing another English links would be replaced for it.  In fact, I ahe a hard time believing any English Open rota course will be replaced for a newbie.  The question becomes what does Princes, Formby or anywhere bring to the table that isn't already there?  The only real deal I can see is geography and that must favour the West Country or the East coast, but I can't see any courses in those two areas which are ideal choices.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean as I say the only new venues will replace men only clubs, that's the opening for Royal Portrush when Muirfield dips out of the rota. If Sandwich votes as expected there is no vacancy for another venue. The infrastructure investment is too high for 1 in 20 year venues.

[Adrian_Stiff]

A course in Wales would be the most likely to solve the 'West' issue.

[Mark Chaplin]

Adrian the WDA are actively chasing the Open and Royal Porthcawl is their only option. Kent County Council valued the Open as a £90m economic benefit over 5 years to Kent. The North West will work tooth and nail to keep their over exposure to the Open and the income it brings.

[James Boon]

People often discuss the logistics, access and infrastructure needed when hosting an Open or other big professional tournament
(See Steve Okula's post on the Gullane Scottish Open 2015 thread as a good list of the concerns, plus parking as he mentions later examplehttp://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59076.msg1388844.html#msg1388844)
The frustration for me is that half of the current venue's seem to fall down on a lot of these requirements but they have hosted the Open historically so they seem to get a pass? This for me means the bottom line is that if the R&A want it to happen they will make it happen, so unless they are asking for extra venues (perhaps they are?  ) I cant see it happening?

Adrian,

Saunton is a decent course, though I'm not sure its quite Open caliber for me? However, as it often gets mentioned I have in the past tried to figure out at least the course, spectator movement and grandstands issue (access is a general nightmare I would imagine). I figured the best bet was to:
- start on the 2nd
- Utilising some of the West course as range, chipping and putting green
- play round to the 6th (certainly keep 5 in the routing, more short par 3s needed for these chaps to play!)
- hop over to the West to play 10, 11 and then back along 8, probably from new back tee)
- Then play 7, miss the tight group in the middle then 11 to 18
- no room around the last for grandstands etc so...
- head back down the first as a tough par 4 to finish
- throw in quite a few new back tees and it should be somewhere around the 7,000 plus required?
- probably need a temporary clubhouse down there somewhere, leaving the existing clubhouse as it is for the members to look out over what would be the penultimate hole on this bastardised composite 

Serious question this, as I've never played the course, would Seaton Carew be a possible Open venue? Plenty of audience in the north east? Or isn't the course quite up to what the R&A would want, or would someone argue its too close to Muirfield?

Cheers,

James

[Jon Wiggett]

Serious question this, as I've never played the course, would Seaton Carew be a possible Open venue? Plenty of audience in the north east? Or isn't the course quite up to what the R&A would want, or would someone argue its too close to Muirfield?

Cheers,

James

I thought that James but then with Hartlepool as the back drop Still, good course with summer and winter versions.

[Paul Gray]

We seem to be assuming a limited number of courses on the rota. I am completely unaware on the R&A policy on this but is there any conceivable reason for the rota not to be larger?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Room for tented village, Room for tv compounds, Room for Hospitality units, Hotel Space, Car Parking, 7200 Yards, Road Infrastructure from Motorway to course, Room between holes, Huge Practice ground.

Then they start the thinking.... is it a good enough course.

I would not be surprised if the R & A really wanted less courses on the rota. With the chop for Hoylake, Lytham, Turnberry and Carnoustie.

South East = ££££££££ An RSG Open every 5 or 6 years perhaps
They love Birkdale for North West
Old Course = speaks for itself
Troon for West Scotland
Muirfield for Edinburgh
Portrush for Northern Ireland

A reason for having more is it is quite a disruption for the club, hence the amount and roughly once in 10 years distribution.

[Frank Pont]

Littlestone with some serious tweaking would be great.

Trevose would be another solid candidate.

Both have enough space, problem would be mostly logistics.....

[Tom_Doak]

Why do they need more Open venues?  Have they run out of ideas for defacing the ones they already have?

[Ryan Coles]

What are the detrimental alterations that have been made to Hoylake?

[Tom_Doak]

What are the detrimental alterations that have been made to Hoylake?

They eliminated the most fascinating hole [the old par-3 7th] before the last Open.  It had out of bounds just to the left of the green, a frightening prospect that gave pause to even the best players ... so they took it out.

They also changed the green at the 17th [1st hole for the tournament] because it was too severe, and created gallery-flow issues because it was right up against a road.

Sounds like they have added some contouring around some of the greens before this event, too, but I haven't been there for a while.

[Adam Lawrence]

Tom, the Dowie was changed quite a long time ago. There was no OB on the hole for the 1967 Open, and Cameron Sinclair later rebuilt the green.

I wrote a piece on the history of the hole a few years ago. http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/The-dumbing-down-of-Dowie/2088/Default.aspx#.U8rhu2K9KSM

You are correct that the Royal green was moved before the 2006 Open. With the green hard against the boundary fence spectators would have been unable easily to access the 18th/2nd hole.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Why do they need more Open venues?  Have they run out of ideas for defacing the ones they already have?

A longstanding thought of mine is if you hate a course wish an Open on it. I'm amazed all these Dealies want an Open. They might as well be saying, we want to kill that which we love.

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