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John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mark Bourgeois has done excellent work digging up the scores on the 11th at the Old Course of the 2010 Open.

Field, 2010: 24 birdies, 327 pars, 102 bogeys, 13 doubles

This reveals by my maths an average score of 3.22

Do you think the new 11th, will be “strengthened for the elite players” at the 2015 Open.
If so the scoring average should go up.

Will the new benign area to the left of the green instigate higher or lower averages?

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 09:51:19 AM »
It will give a needed increase in the variety of pin positions available on that hole.  Who cares about the scoring average?
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 10:09:08 AM »
If the hole plays the same as it played before, then you'd need a pretty good argument to justify architectural changes.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 11:33:52 AM »
" Who cares about the scoring average?"

Rich,
haven't you been listening?

Peter Dawson said he wants to strengthen the course against Elite Pros.
That implies the changes being made to the course, are to RESIST low scoring.

Paul_Turner

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Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 11:34:08 AM »
When was the now "prohibited" pin position last used for an Open or Dunhill?
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 09:00:36 AM »
It would have been a lot less expensive to cut and roll the greens at 9-10 instead of 12!   

Jeb Bearer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 08:52:00 PM »
It would have been a lot less expensive to cut and roll the greens at 9-10 instead of 12!   

Not to mention it would have saved the integrity and uniqueness of the hole for the other 99.9% of golfers who play the course.

Jud_T

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Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 07:55:35 AM »
If the argument was that more pin positions were needed for everyday play due to excessive wear on the green, that would be one thing.  But that is not the case, it's that more pin positions are desired for the Open at higher green speeds to make it "fair" for the pros.  Essentially the Championship Committee just bitch-slapped the town with their elitist ideals about tournament golf.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 08:08:40 AM »
Bill - they aim for 10.5 for the Open greens, speeds over 11 do not work on links courses when the breeze gets up. This is about making more pin positions not faster green speeds.
Cave Nil Vino

jeffwarne

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Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 08:15:39 AM »
Bill - they aim for 10.5 for the Open greens, speeds over 11 do not work on links courses when the breeze gets up. This is about making more pin positions not faster green speeds.

That's correct, but it's also about reclaiming pin positions LOST due to higher greens speeds.
It would be great if the governing bodies in the US adopted/went back to the speeds used in Opens so they could stop butchering their own greens
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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