[Ronald Montesano]

We've finished 90 holes at Bethpage in three days (done all the crayons, as I like to say) with some surprising scores and some surprising revelations about these five golf courses. In due time, all will be revealed. For those manducaters champing at the bit to see some photos, here are the five courses in alphabetical order.

Black: http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Bethpage%20Black-July%202011/
Blue: http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Bethpage%20Blue-July%202011/
Green: http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Bethpage%20Green-July%202011/
Red: http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Bethpage%20Red-July%202011/
Yellow: http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Bethpage%20Yellow-July%202011/

For those with scads of patience, the RED TOUR begins here.

Bethpage Red is the second of two fairly pure A.W. Tillinghast courses. What our triumvirate found noteworthy were the following, scant details: the Red plays 6200 yards from the forward tees (a daunting mileage for the usual company that plays up there~seniors, beginners and ladies); the 1st and 18th holes on the Red are miles better than their similarly-numbered holes on the Black. We cobbled together a fantastical championship routing that eliminated two holes (10 & 11) from the Black and incorporated these two, finer holes from the Red. It goes Black 1-9, 12-18, then a shuttle over to #1 Red and another shuttle over to #18 Red to finish the round. Never mind all the difficulties involved (and trees, and lost sight lines); it's fantasy. Despite a flat stretch on the back nine (similar to the flat stretch on the Black, albeit longer and less interesting), the Red is easily the New Course to Bethpage Black's Old...if it were off the property, it would garner heightened respect. Enough intrommercial...on with the peregrination.

Bethpage Red~Hole#1...Par 4:471\464\439...My initial thought was that A.W. Tillinghast forward-channeled Mike Strantz on this hole, given the funnel shape of the ascending fairway that reminded me of #9 at Tobacco Road. The drive down from the tee deck brings you parallel to #18 at Black, so fescue and bunkering are shared between these holes. There is ample landing space. The approach ascends quickly past knobs of earth left and right, to a plateau green installed in the hillside, near the top.

From Tee Deck


Deeper from Tee Deck


From Fairway [note nobs left and right, creating cascade effect, followed by green at top right of golf cart]


Closer from Fairway


Partway up slope


Backward from front of green, #18 Black on left & #18 Red on right


From rear left of putting surface

[Mike Sweeney]

Won't make the whole tour today but #1 is a fabulous hole. If you don't count the bunkers that are really there for #18 BB, this has to be one of the great long par 4 bunkerless holes in golf.

If I remember correctly, like many at Bethpage, the green does not have a ton of internal movement but has some nice slope to it as seen in your last picture. As a long uphill second shot opener style green, it is perfect.

[Kevin Pallier]

Ronald

I look forward to your tour. Whilst I didn't think 1 Black was over bunkered IMO 18 is. You may very well be on the mark with regard to your assessment of them v those on the Red.

[Will Lozier]

How Mike Stranz came up, I'll never know!  #1 Red is a beast and a fantastic hole that would fit well with the Black.  There was originally talk of making Red #18 (another great hole and another beast) the closer...even from #18 Black tee to make it more logistical.  I'll be interested to look at a map to see the logistics of your suggestion of including the first and last of the Red while excluding 10/11 Black...just did and that would be very interesting!  I like it.  A long last walk from 17 to 18 with a bunkerless pentultimate hole in the USOpen!  The only shame is that 16 (18 Black) is still a lame hole for my taste while I love the suffering that 10 is known for.

[Tim Martin]

#1 Red is certainly a majestic looking hole from the elevated tee and a tougher opener than it`s big brother the Black.

[Andy Hughes]

Tricks, assuming a nice drive, ~ what club is the second shot with? Do approaches trundle back down the hill if they are too weak? 

[Brian Freeman]

Ron - looks like a fun trip and this could be a great thread.  I've been itching to get back up there since the '09 US Open and I'm sure this won't help.  Look forward to the continuation.

[Joe Bausch]

Whew, I thought somebody in your group had been attacked by a peregrine falcon on the Red course!

 

[Ronald Montesano]

Joe--Tim Martin ate the falcon...

Andy--I hit a decent drive from the middle tees and had a 3-hybrid left to the green. Yes, a ball that does not reach all the way to the collar could tumble on down.

Mike--Excellent point. It never occurred to me how bunkerless the hole really is.

Brian--Here comes hole #2.

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Red~Hole # 2...Par 4: 408\392\364...A hard-swinging dogleg left, this is one of two or three "C" holes presented by Tillinghast on this course. This is a decent hole, but nowhere near the calibre of the 2nd at the Black, which reigns supreme from this point on. The key is to neither slide a ball too far right nor tug it too far left. The green is also not bunkered (from my recollection) and is a nice break after the daunting first hole.

From the tee deck


From front of tee deck


From outside of fairway bend


Closer Up


From rear of green

[Mike Sweeney]

Bethpage Red:

#1 - Doak 9 hole !
#2 - Doak 3 hole.

Average score to date - Doak 6, Kyle Harris are you out there!! 

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Red~Hole # 3...Par 4: 382\368\354...Hole The Third wraps back around Hole The Second, albeit with a little more character in my eyes. The drive slides left to right and can run through the fairway if driven too far. The second is played over some wrinkled turf to a green perched near a left and back fall off. A bunker right pushes your approach leftward, toward those aforementiond declivities. The putting surface is ample. I made a truckload of putts on the Red, more than on any other course at Bethpage...who knows why? Word in the rough is that the parks department is going to pump a bit of cash into the Red, to have two chamionship calibre courses on site.


From Tee Deck


From Tee Deck Deeper


From Fairway


From Fairway Closer


Nearly To Green

[JC Jones]

Wow.  Your thesaurus is impressive.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Tricks, assuming a nice drive, ~ what club is the second shot with? Do approaches trundle back down the hill if they are too weak? 

Andy, maybe I can answer this; I've had 6i in (after a nutted drive), but one can just as easily hit a wood in; the green is pretty accepting.  I don't recall the fairway being cut that close or dry whereby balls short would roll back, I recall they pretty much hang up on the hill. 

Hitting this green in reg and making a par is an incredible feeling. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Red~Hole # 4...Par 3: 181\161\145...A swell little hole that plays over an angled, deep sand hovel to a diagonal green with a bit of bounce from right to left (the direction of the diagonal when faced from the tee.) Anything left (short, medium or long) is to be pitied...safety is on the right. The green comes to an extension of the shelf on which the 1st green also sits; from the back you peer down on holes on the Black and Red courses. A terrific par three.

From the tee

[Kyle Harris]

Mike Sweeney,

Right here!

Shameless self-promotion:

My post on the first at Bethpage Red in March:

http://kylewharris.com/2011/02/25/an-opening-hole-bethpage-state-park-red-course/

Various photos:

http://kylewharris.com/2011/02/15/golf-course-image-crops/

[Kyle Harris]

Ronald:

Your thought of the Black reigning supreme from the first on out will meet with some discussion from me.

I hope you're not just saying that to incite debate.

Kyle

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Red~Hole # 5...Par 5: 528\510\494...One of a fair number of canyon holes (my term) that, while they are wide enough to accommodate most drives, feel as though you are coming up or down a canyon and expect to see some landspeeders from Tatooine racing by. The optimal drive stays left center, to give a look at the elevated green. A well-busted drive (a term not found in Hogan's Five Lessons) will give you a chance to get metal or hybrid on the green. The putting region itself is a fair one. It has ample undulation and tilt, but not enough to hurl you madcap back down the fairway or into a bunker. As seen from some photos, there is sand along the perimeters, but nothing up the central corridor, allowing the ball to bound a bit forward (despite what Dave Pelz says) toward the target. In my mind, the most dramatic par five on the Red course (not the best, as you will read.)

View From Tee Deck~Back


View From Tee Deck~Closer


View Nearing Corner Of Canine Extremity


Closer In From Previous Position


Walking The Ascent


Looking Down From Putting Surface

[Ronald Montesano]

Bethpage Red~Hole # 6...Par 4: 350\338\322...One of the more unique Tillinghast holes, this "C" shaped par four is so much more curved than a typical dogleg. The proper play is to come in from the high, right side and avoid the "line of charm." The fairway slopes pronouncedly from right to left, speeding the delivery of off-line balls to the woods off the tee or the high, thick fescue or bunker to the left of the green. The hole, ultimately, reminds me of a banked race track, such is the curvature. It represents a perfect alternative to a menacing, punitive dogleg. The fairway is ample, but the increased distance from the far side of the fairway increases the challenge of delivering the approach. Currently, the green site has a chipping bail-out on the right, for those who decide to avoid dead left at all costs.

Tee Deck


Tee Deck, Closer


Right Side of Fairway


Up Center of Fairway

[Kyle Harris]

The stretch from the third through the sixth on Bethpage Red demonstrates through photos the major difference between the Black and Red.

Aesthetic intimidation. Where the Black is bold and in your face (even on the clunker holes like 7, 9, 16 and 18) the Red is much more understated. Scoring on the fourth, fifth, and sixth requires just as much thoughtful play as any stretch on the Black and the current maintenance meld on the Red better emphasizes this point.

Ron didn't mention just how difficult the swale in front of the green makes the tee shot on the third. Many simply play fades hugging the right side only to find themselves on a slight downslope to an awkwardly perched green. Playing outside the dogleg opens the green surface to attack from the fairway.

[Ronald Montesano]

Thanks for that input, Kyle. Whether it was the fact that #3 was hole #21, walking, of the day (I was exhausted) or that I hit my drive up on the flat, not challenging the dogleg/swale, all I did was walk through it, taking no notice. I imagine that someone who hits a hard cut around the corner will face the swale. I was most concerned with keeping my ball past the trees on the right and short of the end of dogleg/trees on left.

[Kyle Harris]

Thanks for that input, Kyle. Whether it was the fact that #3 was hole #21, walking, of the day (I was exhausted) or that I hit my drive up on the flat, not challenging the dogleg/swale, all I did was walk through it, taking no notice. I imagine that someone who hits a hard cut around the corner will face the swale. I was most concerned with keeping my ball past the trees on the right and short of the end of dogleg/trees on left.

I think you felt it as you did mention the hole has more character than the second. I believe the hole shows its teeth much more over time, after a few mishits. Double Bogey lurks with every shot.

[Chris DeNigris]

IMO, after 6 it's Black 4, Red 1 and one all square.

While I think Red 1 is a better hole than Black 1 (although I think the green complex on 1 is  a lot better)- I think it's too long for an opener.  Later in the round it plays like a great half par hole.

2 thru 6 the Black easily dominates...even if the par 3s are considered a draw (I still like B3 better) the par 5 compare is a no brainer and the 3 par 4s are significantly better.

I'm a relative novice at Bethpage- I iwish I lived closer!- and while I really like the Red I need to play it more to gain the appreciation that Kyle has for it.

Good presentation Ron-keep them coming!

[Ronald Montesano]

Chris,

Aren't the par 3s (3B and 4R) cousins? They have that similar angled green/front angled bunker setup...the one at the Black is more angled, while the Red hole is flatter, more direct, in its positioning to the tee. I think I liked the green on the R4 better than the one on the B3 but, like you, I wish I lived closer and I wish they had a season pass!

[Kyle Harris]

IMO, after 6 it's Black 4, Red 1 and one all square.

While I think Red 1 is a better hole than Black 1 (although I think the green complex on 1 is  a lot better)- I think it's too long for an opener.  Later in the round it plays like a great half par hole.

2 thru 6 the Black easily dominates...even if the par 3s are considered a draw (I still like B3 better) the par 5 compare is a no brainer and the 3 par 4s are significantly better.

I'm a relative novice at Bethpage- I iwish I lived closer!- and while I really like the Red I need to play it more to gain the appreciation that Kyle has for it.

Good presentation Ron-keep them coming!

Chris:

This is where the whole match-play golf hole analysis thing shows it's rather substantial weakness. For me, the fourth and fifth on the Black are untouchable holes. But I think anyone would agree that the fourth, fifth and even the sixth on the Red are the equal or better to the majority of the second tier of the Black course. R5 is the second best long hole on the entire property. R6 is the type of shorter hole the Black course is sorely missing, and it presents a more vexing and potentially disastrous tee shot than B2.

The only way the Black is a "clear winner" than the Red is to compare the holes as they present themselves in the routing.

As we'll see coming up, the Red Course has holes that better present the challenges shown by the Black's 10th, 12th and 16th holes.

Ron:

The green on R4 is not flatter than the green on B3. Not sure I would call them cousins.

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