Matt_Ward

The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« on: May 02, 2011, 06:38:10 am »
Had the pleasure in playing C&C's new layout in the Pinehurst area -- The Dormie Club.

A number of people have seen / played the course and I just wanted to add my thoughts on two sensational back-to-back holes.

The short 14th plays about 310 yards -- although the effective distance is slightly longer because of the climb from tee-to-green -- a situation, I might add, comes up frequently when playing the course. The 14th at TDC is similar in certain ways with what C&C did with a similar number hole -- the one at Bandon Trails. Unlike the Oregon course -- the NC-hole plays as I said uphill. You also have a piece of land that was used so superbly by the duo.

There is a solitary bunker that guards the left center of the fairway -- a slot is provided for those who want to squeeze their tee shot through that opening -- and the emphasis is on the word squeeze. If you push to the right to avoid the bunker you only increase your overall demands -- the land then slopes away from the green and you have a daunting pitch shot to an elevated green with sharp falloffs that are cut quite close -- anything that comes up even a smidge short -- will roll back. If you hit it too hard then you face the possibility your shot can scamper across the green which is quite narrow towards the rear portiion.

The hole is quite fair -- something the OR layout has had issues with for many people (personally I like the hole there very much). At TDC you have to accept your limitations -- starting at the tee and positioning yourself so your approach can be made with a direct flight to the green itself. Blasting away from the tee is a dead-propositin and C&C have really added much with what this hole provides.

The 15th has been mentioned on another thread and I have to say for a hole just under 400 yards it is an eyeful for its beauty and strategic brilliance. In many ways it reminded me of the 6th at PV. You can cut off as much as you dare -- push too far right and it's reload city. The hole funnells into a tight landing area the longer you hit the tee shot -- get to the 280-300 yards mark and you really need to marry length and total laser-like accuracy. The further back you play the longer the approach and if you hit it left to avoid the danger on the right you will have a blind approach.

The green is also well done -- balls will bounce in from the left and you need again to gauge the flight time (and roll) in order to get near the pin for a birdie putt.

I will have more to say on TDC -- but I wanted to emphasize these two stellar holes. They use the topography to the best effect and you need to really study your options before you pull the trigger. Hats off to the duo for a winning pair of tour de force holes.

Chip Gaskins

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 06:45:16 am »
i tried to tell you it was great...

Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 07:09:16 am »
Chip:

I never doubted people and I could not say anything until having played the course.

Hard to imagine another course in the broader Pinehurst golf community but TDC is clearly a big time cut above the rest.

There are many fine holes at the course but I really enjoyed what they did with #14 and #15. Shows how creativity can be used to the maximum effect.

Steve Kline

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 07:10:37 am »
SoI'll be in Pinehurst from May 28-June 1. Anyone want to get together to play at Dormie? I'd rather not go by myself.
"The eliminated players may strike." - Tim Bert, Kingsley Night Golf Event

Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 08:07:22 am »
Steve:

You will enjoy TDC - just fantastic golf -- although keep in mind, the first three holes set the stage for when the golf really kicks into gear with the 4th hole.

Jim Franklin

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 07:35:57 pm »
Thanks Matt, I will be there Sunday and look forward to seeing the layout. I also can't wait to see #2 the following day.
Mr Hurricane

Sean Leary

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 08:47:21 pm »
Matt,

10 plays vs Sand Hills how do you split them.

Kalen Braley

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 09:06:37 pm »
I was kinda hoping for a few pics to see for myself.

In the meantime, a spot of humor:


Brad LeClair

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 11:42:43 pm »






Brad LeClair

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 11:56:05 pm »
I agree 100% with Matt.  14 i found to appear to be very ho-hum off the tee and even considered having a go with the driver but ended up hitting a nice 3iron down to about 45 yards and was perfectly stymied by the well placed greenside bunker.  on a second trip back i would much rather lay back with a shorter club or try to ensure my approach was snug against the left side of the fairway.  these were two of my favorite holes at the Dormie Club.   I can apprecaite the comparison between Dormie & Bandon Trails but i'd say the short par 4 plays better at Dormie however lacks the view and "oh my" moment from the tee box.

Jim Franklin

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 12:19:58 am »
I can see PV #6 in the comparison of #15. How far is it to the bunkers straight away?
Mr Hurricane

Brad LeClair

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 02:17:46 am »
From memory i recall 250-270 yds...

Cory Lewis

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 02:37:06 am »
What I love most about 14 & 15 is the impact the wind has on these two holes. The majority of the loops I've had the wind has been in your face on 15 which makes the tee shot really interesting.  Into a stiff breeze I watched a guy kill his drive right at the short bunker on the left and not get close to it.  When the wind is with you on 14, 95% of all players I've seen hit driver and go for the green, most of them end up in the woods left having to punch out. The ones that hit a good drive between the tree and the bunker are rewarded with a simpler chip shot.  Perfect risk/reward hole. 
Journey to 1000 golf courses played. Done!  July 25, 2012. 1000 golf courses!!!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52954.0.html

Twitter: @corylewispga

Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 08:48:08 am »
Cory:

Good point on the wind dimension. The breeze was slightly into me from the left on #15 but I hit driver anyway and had roughly 80 yards left as I squeezed the tee shot between the bunkers left and the drop-off right. In the future -- I would likely hit 1-iron or 3-metal and take my chances further back.

The key thing is that the approach is not e-z by any means -- one can fly the ball all the way into the target but the bounce in from the left side is also a fun thing provided one gets the proper kick.

#15 is a marvelous hole because of the scenic "all in front of you" look it provides. It reminds me very much of PV's 6th hole.

The 14th, in my mind, is a better hole than the one (#14 too) at BT.

The driver shot is one any player needs to really think about -- pushing it to the right only ensures the ball will scamper even further to that side and the resulting pitch needed for the 2nd is quite frightening because those who play it too "cute" can easily replay that same shot.

The play is what Brad said -- hit for roughly 200 yards and keep it tight to the left side of the fairway. You then are staring down any pin location. The greatness of the hole is that it looks SO SIMPLE -- but will pick your pocket faster than anyone can imagine.

Sean:

I played Sand Hills not long after it opened -- so from memory I give the Nebraska layout a 7-3 split in its favor -- but make no mistake about TDC is very good in so many ways -- the weak link for me was the first three holes - they are good (especially the short 3rd) but SH has no real weaknesses. TDC does have one thing few ever realize -- the course plays at minimum 200+ more yards than the course indicates because of the elevation changes. When TDC gets the greens at full firmness and speed I could see the 7-3 margin being narrowed. Only time will tell. There's more to the Pinehurst area than #2 now -- a first rate layout by C&C.

Gents:

Although not tied to this thread -- I really liked the par-5 10th - 659 yards. No misprint there ! Just keeps on swinging left from tee-to-green and the narrow funnel towards the green really takes guts to fire a second shot to get closer to the green.

Jim F:

If you want a sleeper course nearby to Pinehurst -- try Bayonet at Puppy Creek in the greater Fayetteville area -- fun layout and wonderful terrain although you will not know it till you get through the 2nd hole.


Jim Franklin

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 10:59:25 pm »
Matt -

I wish I had time to check out that course, but I am playing Dormie and then #2 early the next day before I need to get to Charlotte for meetings and a charity outing. Maybe next year I can allot more time to my visit.

On #15, how far is the bunker on the left from the green?
Mr Hurricane

jonathan_becker

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2011, 11:11:28 pm »
Matt, Brad, and Cory,

Call me nuts (and this is based on a single play at Dormie), but on #14, I don't think that banging driver or 3 metal and missing to the right is all that bad of a play to try and leave yourself a shorter pitch.  There's plenty of room over there and the angle in provides the opportunity to use the green as a backboard of sorts.  Sure, the green falls off the front and back, but the majority of the green slopes left to right.

The green does provides a tough shot from almost anywhere.  I hit driver and came up about 15 yards short right in front of the green.  The pitch I had was so tough because I couldn't get the ball to stop trickling to the right side of the green. I struck it perfectly, it checked, but it wouldn't stop feeding.  I then looked over to the short right fairway and thought that's where you could use the slope of the green to get the ball to stop quicker on the approach.  

Now, I'm not saying it's the preferred play, but I don't think it's a bad play.  But I would much rather take my chances from down there than lay up off the tee and have to hit a full approach into the green.  I would worry about ripping it off the front or pulling it left as that's jail over there as well.

Here's a few shots that I took, too.








jonathan_becker

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2011, 11:13:04 pm »
Jim,

They told me 290 to the bunkers on 15.  Considering it was 45* and into the wind when I played it, it was no cause for concern.

Carl Rogers

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2011, 11:50:14 pm »
Did I hear that this course is semi-accessible for the semi-masses like me?

Jim Franklin

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2011, 12:39:32 am »
Jim,

They told me 290 to the bunkers on 15.  Considering it was 45* and into the wind when I played it, it was no cause for concern.

How about from these bunkers to the green for the second shot?
Mr Hurricane

jonathan_becker

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2011, 12:46:40 am »
Jim,

They told me 290 to the bunkers on 15.  Considering it was 45* and into the wind when I played it, it was no cause for concern.

How about from these bunkers to the green for the second shot?

This a straight up guess, but I believe I was more back towards the left bunker off the tee and I had 120 left.

Jim Franklin

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2011, 04:10:38 am »
Jim,

They told me 290 to the bunkers on 15.  Considering it was 45* and into the wind when I played it, it was no cause for concern.

How about from these bunkers to the green for the second shot?

This a straight up guess, but I believe I was more back towards the left bunker off the tee and I had 120 left.

Thanks. That is what I was looking for.
Mr Hurricane

Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2011, 08:47:39 am »
Jonathan B:

OK -- I'm calling you "nuts." ;D

Going too far right is a bad play -- the pitch shot is more than a simple one and the "backstop" you claim is a slight one at best and I'm being generous with that usage.

The best play is about 100 yards out and towards the left side of the fairway hugging the tree line -- all the pin locations are in full view from that spot.

Much tougher option to drive the green because it's slightly uphill and one needs to slot the ball perfectly. Unlike the 14th at BT - the tee shot there is much easier since you are hitting "down" towards that green.

We can quibble on whether it's bad or not so bad -- but I don't see far right or anything that is green high and towards the right -- leaving a ticklish 20-30 yard pitch to be anything remotely close to ideal. Just too much risk to possibly chunk it or hit it short and the ball returns to your feet.

The 14th at TDC will spark plenty of discussion and when you have a hole that is THAT short -- you expect to have a good shot at birdie - that doesn't happen if you hit down the far right side in my mind.

Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2011, 08:52:51 am »
Carl:

Get there soon !

Believe the base rate is $150 plus the cart and/or caddie fee.

Well worth it indeed !

Jim:

The smart play on #15 is to leave something in the 100-120 yard range. The choke point is quite narrow and the slightest pull / push can be the end of the story before it even begins ! Enjoy -- eager to hear your thoughts.

jonathan_becker

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Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2011, 09:04:34 am »
Matt,

What's funny is that I don't consider myself an overly aggressive player, but I'm hitting it down there on this hole.  Mainly because I hate having a short iron or wedge hanging below my feet and that's this hole.  My miss is to stand up on it which bring thats right bunker into play. 

It's all what you're comfortable with as a player, but I would rather come in from the odd angle with a better stance and use the slope of the hill to my advantage to loft the ball high and soft and get it to land more dead instead of it coming in ripping with wedge spin.  That's just me though.


Matt_Ward

Re: The incredible 14th and 15th holes at Dormie Club !
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2011, 09:17:14 am »
Jonathan:

The front bunker is ONLY in play with the driver or one's longest club -- could be a 3-metal for the strongest of players.

A wedge shot to VIEWABLE PINS (wherever it may be positioned) is promoted much more so with a left side of the fairway position. It's a dead on shot from that side. You keep on saying about the backstop element -- what backstop. You make it sound like one can hit it hard and ipso facto the hill with whatever spin you can put on a ball from say 30-40 yards will suck the ball nearer to the hole. You're right -- "that's just you (me) though."

I played several shots from different angles and the far right side can easily become a repetitive exercise because you are hitting to a narrow elevated target and the slightest -- and I mean the slightest chunk -- and it's a repeat game again. Going long is no bargain either.

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