[Phil_the_Author]

David,

From what I've been able to find out, almost all "Hell's Half Acres" in the towns across America can be traced back to a town in Arizona in the 1820's which is supposedly the first place it was used. I don't have that info in front of me and I'll see if I can locate it again. The one In Philadelphia is derived from the Western usage.

The 15th hole at the Olympic Golf and Country Club in or near Seattle Washington opened for play in November 1924 and was called "Hell's Half Acre" as you stated. The description of the hole, which can be found in the December 27, 1924 issue of the American Golfer leads me to believe that the "HHA" feature was not a bunker, sandy waste area or rough, but rather the bluff upon which the "100 foot circular tee" was built and the valley over which one needed to drive to reach the fairway. But again, I'm not certain about that.

Tom, Tilly did design the 7th at PVGC. He also did name a number of "Great Hazards" including the "HHA" at Baltimore Five Farms. You can see this in the October 1928 edition of the American Golfer. In the article titled, "Where Hagen Will Defend His Crown," it refers to the 595-yard par-5 14th hole by its name, "Hell's Half Acre," the name that Tilly gave it.

The hazards at Bethpage Black have been called "Sahara" since at least as far back as the mid-1960's as I can vouch for that from personal experience. The cross bunker on the 4th was also referred to by its name "Glacier" at that time. These names go back much further. Who gave them the names and actually when is not known. There is no question that they are a version of the Tilly "Sahara" style great hazard bunker.

Another one is the "Tarantula" bunker. It's most well-known being on the San Francisco Golf Club. These are actually more common than most think and become quite recognizable when one appreciates their distinctive characteristics.

[Tom MacWood]

Phil
That is interesting about Baltimore, that is the earliest reference I've seen to HHA. How do you know Tilly named it?

I don't doubt the hazards at Bethpage were referred to as Saraha from the 60s on, but Tilly died two decades earlier. I don't recall Tilly ever referring to a Sahara concept, but if you say he did... What are some of the best examples of Tilly's Sahara and what differentiates it from his Great Hazard holes?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

You misunderstood what I said. "What are some of the best examples of Tilly's Sahara and what differentiates it from his Great Hazard holes?"

The "Sahara" isn't different from the "great Hazard" because it IS A Great Hazard. The phrase "Great Hazard" is an overall concept that takes in various specific individual types of hazards. "Sahara" is different from "Tarantula" which is different from "HHA" etc... but ALL are "Great Hazards."

Here is another outstanding "Sahara." The 17th on Baltusrol Lower:


Tilly believed in giving golf holes names and often did so on many of his original designs. For example, he named the holes at Winged Foot and even wrote in an article exactly why he called it "Babe in the Woods." Other times he wrote the hole names on his drawings.

Here is Tilly's "HHA" at 5 Farms. The lines are drawn in as the hole aerial was used in the 1932 Golf Illustrated article reporting on the play in the U.S. Amateur:

[Tom MacWood]

Other examples of Tilly "Great Hazards" are the Sahara bunker which is quite often thought of as a "Hell's Half Acre" but usually isn't.

Please explain.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

Quote from: Philip Young on Yesterday at 08:43:17 AM

Other examples of Tilly "Great Hazards" are the Sahara bunker which is quite often thought of as a "Hell's Half Acre" but usually isn't.

Please explain.


Reread my earlier post #16 as the explanation is in there.

[Tom MacWood]

Tilly’s “Great Hazard” is a GENERAL title for several different STYLES of large areas of hazard. It can be found in a number of different forms and even combinations.

These can be those that involve an entire section of the fairway from one side of the rough to the opposite side. The sketch below is an example of this:

This “Great Hazard” is a SAHARA bunker, the forward end of which is higher than the rest of it. This is shown by the lines at the far end of it. Even though the two bunkers shown on opposite sides of the fairway that drives need to carry are large, these are neither “Great Hazards” nor Sahara bunkers. Due to its massive size it is also a “Hell’s Half Acre” type of “Great Hazard.”

Tilly’s SAHARA bunkers are ALWAYS “Great Hazards” but they are NOT always “Hell’s Half Acre’s.” A “HHA” encompasses the entire fairway from one side to the other upon which it is constructed, and in so doing creates two distinct fairway sections. Below is an example of a “Sahara” bunker which is a great hazard, but because it doesn’t create the two distinct fairway sections, it isn’t a “HHA”:

This is unquestionably a “Great Hazard” and, even with the few small grass hummocks in it, it is a “Sahara” yet it actually only impacts onto the fairway depending upon how far a drive and how much of it the player CHOOSES to carry. This is NOT a “HHA.”

The “Hell’s Half Acre” “Great Hazard” must bisect the fairway creating two distinct areas. Though most often found on par-5’s it can also be found on par-4’s. The one below is from the Philadelphia Cricket Club. It may be all sand, or a large sand area with islands of grass hummocks, a combination of individual bunkers of varying size and numbers and grass areas or even as below which is an area predominately of rough with a minimal number of bunkers placed within:

There are a number of other ways that Tilly used “Great Hazards” and these will all be discussed in Tilly Volume II.

You did not explain what differentiates a Tilly Sahara from his Great Hazard. What are some of the best examples of Tilly's Sahara?

Did Tilly ever refer to his Saraha concept?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

You simply don't seem to be able to comprehend a simple statement here Tom. The "Sahara" is a TYPE of "Great Hazard." Not all of Tilly's Great Hazards are Sahara's. A "HHA" is a TYPE of "Great Hazard." Not all Great Hazard's are HHA's.

Lettuce is a vegetable; not all vegetable's are lettuce. Why is this concept so difficult for you?

[Tom MacWood]

Phil
Now I understand. Sahara and HHA are types of great hazards.

What differentiates a Sahara bunker from a HHA bunker?

Did Tilly ever refer to any of his great hazards as HHA or Saraha? I believe you said Tilly named the bunker at Baltimore HHA. How do you know that?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

"What differentiates a Sahara bunker from a HHA bunker?" The answer lay in my post #16 which defines each type and in 16 & 27 where examples of both are seen. I think the differences are striking and should be obvious.

In post #27, the "HHA" at the 5 Farms is typical in that it bisects the fairway completely creating two distinct sections before and after and is a combination of small sand bunkers with large surrounding rough and long grasses. The typical "Sahara" bunker does not bisect the fairway but rather runs alongside it and, in addition to its size, impacts into it as can be seen in the photos of Bethpage 5 & 7. Yet the main difference isn't the bisecting of the fairway as there are some "Sahara's" that do this. This can be seen in post #27 in the photo of 17 on Baltusrol Lower which bisects the fairway including the much smaller bunker in the rough to its left. So what then is the defining difference? Even though there are a very few small little tufts of high grasses within its body, the hazard is 98%+ sand. A "HHA" is a mixture that contains a great deal of rough with islands of sand, not the other way around as is the case at Baltusrol. That is why the bunker has been called "Sahara" going back to the day the course opened for play.

"Did Tilly ever refer to any of his great hazards as HHA or Saraha? I believe you said Tilly named the bunker at Baltimore HHA. How do you know that?"

Yes he did. I've already mentioned the "HHA" at 5 Farms. Tilly named every hole there and its in the club records. You can see the hole names if you visit the Tillinghast Association website at www.tillinghast.net and go through the 5 Farms slideshow. Before you ask, NO, I won't produce copies of them on here. Sometimes you simply do need to actually believe someone. As a great black-caped philosopher said in a galaxy far, far away, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Tilly named a great many of his holes on many different courses. With the EXCEPTION of "Hell's Half Acre" I am unaware of his giving a NAME to any of his bunkers other than refering to them as a type. This doesn't mean that he didn't, just that I have yet to see any. There is enough secondary evidence to believe that he did call the bunker on 17 at baltusrol Lower Sahara; I just don't have the absolute proof. As I mentioned above, it has been refered to as a "Sahara" bunker since the copurse opened.

The real question actually, is where and when did Tilly begin using the term "Hell's Half Acre?" Why did a number of 1920s-30s golf writers (e.g. - Grantland Rice, etc...) call it a SAHARA bunker? That's a question for a different time and day and you can read about it in Volume II when it comes out...

[Jeff Taylor]

Ah, the game within the game.

Thanks for the detail Philip. Sharing information should not be a test.

[Phil_the_Author]

Jeff,

Thank you... As another great philosopher once said, "Serenity Now, Serenity Now..."

[Tom MacWood]

Tom,

"What differentiates a Sahara bunker from a HHA bunker?" The answer lay in my post #16 which defines each type and in 16 & 27 where examples of both are seen. I think the differences are striking and should be obvious.

In post #27, the "HHA" at the 5 Farms is typical in that it bisects the fairway completely creating two distinct sections before and after and is a combination of small sand bunkers with large surrounding rough and long grasses. The typical "Sahara" bunker does not bisect the fairway but rather runs alongside it and, in addition to its size, impacts into it as can be seen in the photos of Bethpage 5 & 7. Yet the main difference isn't the bisecting of the fairway as there are some "Sahara's" that do this. This can be seen in post #27 in the photo of 17 on Baltusrol Lower which bisects the fairway including the much smaller bunker in the rough to its left. So what then is the defining difference? Even though there are a very few small little tufts of high grasses within its body, the hazard is 98%+ sand. A "HHA" is a mixture that contains a great deal of rough with islands of sand, not the other way around as is the case at Baltusrol. That is why the bunker has been called "Sahara" going back to the day the course opened for play.

"Did Tilly ever refer to any of his great hazards as HHA or Saraha? I believe you said Tilly named the bunker at Baltimore HHA. How do you know that?"

Yes he did. I've already mentioned the "HHA" at 5 Farms. Tilly named every hole there and its in the club records. You can see the hole names if you visit the Tillinghast Association website at www.tillinghast.net and go through the 5 Farms slideshow. Before you ask, NO, I won't produce copies of them on here. Sometimes you simply do need to actually believe someone. As a great black-caped philosopher said in a galaxy far, far away, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Tilly named a great many of his holes on many different courses. With the EXCEPTION of "Hell's Half Acre" I am unaware of his giving a NAME to any of his bunkers other than refering to them as a type. This doesn't mean that he didn't, just that I have yet to see any. There is enough secondary evidence to believe that he did call the bunker on 17 at baltusrol Lower Sahara; I just don't have the absolute proof. As I mentioned above, it has been refered to as a "Sahara" bunker since the copurse opened.

The real question actually, is where and when did Tilly begin using the term "Hell's Half Acre?" Why did a number of 1920s-30s golf writers (e.g. - Grantland Rice, etc...) call it a SAHARA bunker? That's a question for a different time and day and you can read about it in Volume II when it comes out...

Phil
So you invented the part about the Sahara? That is what I thought. I've been researching Tilly for years and I don't recall him ever referring to a Sahara feature.

I think you may be confused about Five Farms too. The article you cited was written by W. Wilson '3W' Wingate, not Tilly. I suppose its possible Tilly gave the hole that name, but there is no evidence he did.

In the future may I suggest you not make up these features like the Sahara, it is confusing, and actually takes away from one of his most  important design trademarks/concepts, that being the long par-5 featuring the Great Hazard.

Do you know when Tilly first introduced the long par-5 featuring the Great Hazard?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

I made nothing up. You prove once again how very little you know and how arrogant you are. You also prove how little you are able to READ WHAT A PERSON ACTUALLY WRITES.

You are a waste of energy and time. You also prove that your "questions" on here had a single agenda, one that you have tried to employ on different threads. I am done with you and your hypocrisy.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom,

I made nothing up. You prove once again how very little you know and how arrogant you are. You also prove how little you are able to READ WHAT A PERSON ACTUALLY WRITES.

You are a waste of energy and time. You also prove that your "questions" on here had a single agenda, one that you have tried to employ on different threads. I am done with you and your hypocrisy.

Phil
I'm sorry you feel that way. I have a great deal of admiration for Tilly and have found you have consistently misunderstood and distorted his history, the Sahara concept being your latest distortion. Tilly deserves better.  

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