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Ross's courses
Steve Wilson:
Sean,
I remembered reading about Rogell and that he had a Ross golf course named after him, but I couldn't remember where, when or why I knew such a thing. I searched on line and found this:
Detroit's Historic Rogell Golf Course Has New Owner
The year was 1914. The leading citizens of Detroit's Jewish community, including Max Fisher, opened the Phoenix Golf Club, later to become the Rogell Golf Course. Now its new owners, the Greater Grace Temple, have preserved a special piece of the city's history as well as a local gem.
"This purchase is very significant in that we have become the only African-American-owned and -operated golf course in the entire state," said Greater Grace Temple Pastor, Bishop Charles H. Ellis III. "This course and club have a rich legacy dating back to 1914 and that includes the likes of such prominent men as Donald Ross and Max Fisher. We are excited to continue the revitalization of this northwest corner of Detroit with this $2-million investment."
Later on in the article it mentions the back nine, rolling hills and the Rouge River.
So it would appear that the course in question, the Phoenix Golf Club, is another of those not on the list for whatever reason.
Regards
Steve Wilson:
Tom,
Aside from the fact that we nearly posted on top of one another, isn't it interesting that everyone claims Ross and so few mention Bendelow as their progenitor. Perhaps Ross didn't claim Phoenix because it was more of a reworking or tweaking rather than a full fledged design.
Tom MacWood:
--- Quote from: TEPaul on September 29, 2009, 03:39:55 AM ---"TEP
Orlando CC was nine hole course that dated back to 1910. I'm not sure who designed it; Ross added a second nine in 1917."
Then one wonders why CC of Orlando was not on that advertising pamphlet as he did list a course where he did a lot less (if anythng) than add nine holes (Whitemarsh Valley). I guess the point is that pamphlet should probably not be used as a comprehensive list of what was actually done or not done by the Ross company up until 1930.
--- End quote ---
TEP
I have a two part answer: I believe the changes to Whitemarsh Valley were a little more comprehensive than you realize and Whitemarsh was a superior and more well known golf course than Orlando (before and after). If you are Donald Ross and you are going to list courses you've remodeled, you are only going to list those courses that are that are among the elite or at least semi-elite.
Tom MacWood:
--- Quote from: Steve Wilson on September 29, 2009, 06:15:31 AM ---Tom,
Aside from the fact that we nearly posted on top of one another, isn't it interesting that everyone claims Ross and so few mention Bendelow as their progenitor. Perhaps Ross didn't claim Phoenix because it was more of a reworking or tweaking rather than a full fledged design.
--- End quote ---
Steve
I agree with you. Also the few courses he did list as redesigns were fairly high profile and I'm not sure Phoenix would qualify.
Sean_A:
--- Quote from: Tom MacWood on September 29, 2009, 06:08:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: Sean Arble on September 29, 2009, 02:11:39 AM ---
Steve
I knew the course name was changed in honour of Rogell, but I can't find what it would have been called originally on that list because there is no other course listed which could have become Rogell (now New Rogell since the city of Detroit sold the course). There are other Michigan courses missing as well. It would be very interesting to know how Ross (at the time) came up with this list.
Ciao
--- End quote ---
Sean
I did some checking it was originally Phoenix Country Club and it was designed by Tom Bendelow in 1914. It was Jewish Club and I believe Max Fisher was involved in its development. If you go near end (page 8) of the article linked below it talks about it being one of 30 courses Bendelow was involved with that year. The Ross Society has Ross's involvement dated 1921.
What other Michigan courses are missing?
--- End quote ---
Tommy Mac & Steve
Wow, I never heard of Phoenix CC in Detroit. However, it does explain the rather odd design that Rogell is - nothing remotely like the other courses Ross was involved in Michigan at the same time period, but some of this may be explained by the odd shape of land and I suspect later reworking because of roads.
Warren Valley which is two 18s today with an old 18 hole Ross course as their core isn't listed. Western, another old Detroit club isn't listed. St Claire CC ( I think it is now called its original name of St Clair River CC) is another club I know fairly well that isn't listed.
Its also interesting that Franklin Hills seems to be called Franklin Woods - in Detroit. The place names for this listing could cause a lot of confusion because some are inaccurate.
Ciao
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