[Charlie Goerges]

Anything's possible!

[Garland Bayley]

18th Hole - Par 4, 423 Yards

I love it! Fade tee shot, draw approach. Pete might like it too.

[Garland Bayley]

I like the way you used the terrain to make a more interesting par 5 5th along the edge of the property, making it more interesting than my par 5 running along the same edge.

To my eye it looks like the bunkers on the inside of the 6th are too short from the tee to be in play. What does your measurement say? Obviously you have many bunkers that are not in play for the good golfers (of course Whistling Straits probably wins this category hands down). However, you must realize that a high handicapper like myself would probably choose to play somewhere else.

I think your best back to back holes are 13 & 14. From the pictures it looks like that center bunker on 14 will make the second shot very interesting for players like me. Making the second shot interesting on par 5s is something I was not too adept at.

On 13, can the tee markers be set to make the ideal approach point blind from the tee behind the esker? I think that would be a great bit of quirk for this hole.

Enjoyed your routing. Wish I was as artistic.

[Jim Colton]

Garland,

Thanks for your comments.  I think the 2nd bunker on the 6th is probably far enough to at least think about.  I think the one on the left is about 290-300 from the back tee.  I can measure it tonight.

On 13, I meant that esker (I'm going to pretend I know what an esker is) to play a role visually on the tee shot when I drew it up, but I think the tee box is elevated just enough to where it doesn't play much of a role.  Perhaps the start of the left fairway and probably the closest bunker is partially blind.  I like what you were able to do with the esker (I'm going to start using this term all the time now).  Maybe I could've made that area one big fairway, including the esker, and just have the left side littered with bunkers.

I like the centerline bunker on the 14th in that it forces you to think a little bit more on your 2nd shot.  So many times I play par 5's and my strategy (or lack of it) is just to hit the ball down the fairway as far as possible.  The bunker forces you to decide what you want to do and commit to doing it.  I would've liked to have moved it about 2 yards to the left of where it is, but once I stamped it in Sketchup there was no turning back.  That way there would be a little bit more room down the right side, but then you're flirting with the water and it comes into play more on the third shot.

[John Mayhugh]

Jim,
Wouldn't you want to build this course in Long Beach?

How about naming the holes after Snoop songs?  There are plenty of good options, though not all are necessarily appropriate.  And I'm guessing the blunt-shaped tee markers are out for a similar reason......

Thanks for sharing all your hard work and imagintion with us.

[Jim Colton]

East Si-ide!

Apparently Snoop Dogg has put out a bunch of albums since 'Doggystyle' and 'Doggfather', but I really stopped paying attention.  Surprisingly, I thought for sure this would've been the first intersection of GCA and Snoop Dogg, but he pops up multiple times in the Search function.

Looking at his song catalog, there are actually a ton of workable song names that could go on a golf course.  I'm usually against naming unless the course is really worthy, which my design definitely is not.  Maybe if I win the contest I will go back and name the holes.

I imagine the course logo would look something like Ballyneal's, except a marijuana leaf behind the 'B' instead of a yucca plant.

[John Mayhugh]

East Si-ide!

Apparently Snoop Dogg has put out a bunch of albums since 'Doggystyle' and 'Doggfather', but I really stopped paying attention.  Surprisingly, I thought for sure this would've been the first intersection of GCA and Snoop Dogg, but he pops up multiple times in the Search function.

Looking at his song catalog, there are actually a ton of workable song names that could go on a golf course.  I'm usually against naming unless the course is really worthy, which my design definitely is not.  Maybe if I win the contest I will go back and name the holes.

I imagine the course logo would look something like Ballyneal's, except a marijuana leaf behind the 'B' instead of a yucca plant.

I'm not familiar with anything beyond those first couple of albums either.  I'm not a huge fan of naming holes, but your Snoop theme would yield some interesting ones.

Wonder how much Snoop your fellow Ballyneal member, John Kirk, has on his iPod? 

[Charlie Goerges]

Thizzle Casizzle nizzle some sizzle.

Fo' Shizzle.

[Ian_L]

Hi Jim, very cool course.  I think my favorite hole is #14, a great par-5 that gives the player the option of staying away from the water if he so chooses.  #11 looks fun as well.  I noticed our designs share no green sites, although your # 5 and #14 are somewhat close to my holes 16 and 5 (my design is #007, I'll have my tour up in a couple  days).

Your holes 15-18 run nearly the exact same route as my 1-5, except in reverse, which I found very interesting.

[Jeff Tang]

Jim, great design!  There's a lot of room out there to choose holes and you can see from your course aerial that there's a lot of space between holes which is nice.  Looks like it would be a fun course to play and having been to Erin Hills I'm sure it would be very cool to look at as well.  The Dye influence is apparent especially with your par 5-3-4 finish with 18 being a stout par 4 running alongside water.

[Jim Colton]

East Si-ide!

Apparently Snoop Dogg has put out a bunch of albums since 'Doggystyle' and 'Doggfather', but I really stopped paying attention.  Surprisingly, I thought for sure this would've been the first intersection of GCA and Snoop Dogg, but he pops up multiple times in the Search function.

Looking at his song catalog, there are actually a ton of workable song names that could go on a golf course.  I'm usually against naming unless the course is really worthy, which my design definitely is not.  Maybe if I win the contest I will go back and name the holes.

I imagine the course logo would look something like Ballyneal's, except a marijuana leaf behind the 'B' instead of a yucca plant.

I'm not familiar with anything beyond those first couple of albums either.  I'm not a huge fan of naming holes, but your Snoop theme would yield some interesting ones.

Wonder how much Snoop your fellow Ballyneal member, John Kirk, has on his iPod? 

John, I couldn't resist.  This is the closest I'll ever come to designing my own course, so what the heck.  I went back and named the holes.  I've brought GCA to a new low.

1 - G Funk Intro
2 - Upside Ya Head
3 - Lay Low
4 - Who Am I? (What's My Name?)
5 - The Shiznit
6 - Gold Rush
7 - Deep Cover
8 - Gz Up, Ho'z Down
9 - Gin & Juice
10 - Dogg(leg)Father
11 - Drop It Like It's Hot
12 - Step Yo Game Up
13 - Sensual Seduction
14 - Freestyle Conversation
15 - That's That S***
16 - Lodi Dodi
17 - Beautiful
18 - Oh No

[John Mayhugh]

Now I need to compare the holes to the song titles.   

[Jim Colton]

Here's my commentary from the judges.  Thanks for the feedback.

A tad too strong of a golf course--too penal in certain areas. Too many green complexes that are set on a left to right/right to left nature. It's O.K. to make a golf hole go straight once in a while, so feel free to do it!  The routing had me thinking of something Fazio would have concocted, in fact the entire golf course seems to have a Fazio-like joy-die-vie. Still, a good routing utilizing the land for ground game IF the green is reachable. Not every one-shot hole has to have a Redan-like green to it.

No. 1 Likes –
Good Flow and Mix
Good, and not overdone bunkers.
No. 1 DisLikes –
For this site, I don’t like the pond use – it’s too typical, especially the Pete Dye 18th, which is too short for a modern cape hole anyway at 423 yards.  The fingers of the pond on 4 would probably be blind.
After varying wind direction all round, 15-17 play in same direction.
Would anyone play their second shot right on 14?
Fairway bunkering may be too short from tee……





1 – dyeish with some cool holes






Design 001
Design no. 001 offers a good routing for the most part, but with too many blind shots for my tastes. I like the way that holes 1, 9, 10 and 18 are located around the clubhouse site. Holes 7, 13 and 17 are my favourites for their use of the land in the case of 7 and 17, and for the shot options on 13.
GENERAL NOTES:
•   Hole no. 1. I am not a big fan of uphill holes to start a round, as they tend to slow down play because people hit short, especially if the climb is severe before the green.
•   The tees of hole no. 2 are well located near the green of hole no. 1 and the tee area is on a nice spot in general.  However, the green site will need work:  it looks like it is an afterthought to get to the third hole.
•   Hole no. 3. appears to be a transition hole that connects hole no. 2 to a more interesting section of the site.
•   Hole no. 4 presents an interesting idea, but the hole seems a bit forced onto the landscape.  Visibility of the fairway will be limited from the tee area due to the steep slope, I hope that the water looks good in its natural state....
•   I like the way this hole no. 5 climbs up the hill to what appears to be an interesting green site.  Part of the second shot might be blind, but in this case, I don’t mind it so much, since the high mound on the left side of the hole helps you align yourself by containing the hole and somewhat defining the turning point of the dogleg.
•   The back tee of hole no. 6 offers a blind shot to an undefined target.  The back tee would need to be elevated, requiring a large quantity of material to blend in the landscape.  Once you have a view of the entire hole, however, the hole becomes more interesting with the tee shot to an angled fairway. The front to back slope of the green would certainly be interesting on this hole.
•   Hole no. 7 is a great hole.  I like the way it goes right around the hill with the fairway kicking balls to the left, where the angle gets more difficult.  Simple concept but well executed.
•   I am not sure I like the semi-punchbowl green site of hole no. 8 following a steep climb on the second shot, which will be blind once again.  However, the hole reminds me of the 3rd at the National Golf Links of America.  This is not necessarily a bad thing....
•   I am not too sure about hole no. 9.  It appears to be very difficult with no clear definition or view of the shot you have to hit to this cape style green with death surrounding it.
•   Hole no. 10 offers an interesting uphill tee shot with the two bunkers on the right side of the fairway.  Not sure how well it would work on site, but interesting idea.
•   Hole no. 11 offers a nice punchbowl green site with a semi-blind tee shot.  I like the idea, but I feel the execution is not quite there for the strategic interest.
•   Hole no. 12 offers another semi-blind shot to a nice punchbowl fairway, and another semi-blind approach shot similar to hole no. 8.
•   Hole no. 13 is another great hole with an interesting tee shot challenged by the bunker on the left side of the fairway.  The bunkers around the green seem to be too deep for my taste, but I like the way the green is set up to receive the shots from the left fairway area.
•   Hole no. 14 is another interesting hole that uses the landscape well.
•   I am not sure I like hole no. 15.  I would have preferred a green on the left, near the tees of hole no. 16.  Many features of the course are blind, and this is a spot where blindness could have been avoided for, IMHO, better results.
•   Hole no. 16 is a nice par 5 that uses the side slope with good results.
•   Hole no. 17 is a great looking par 3 with what should be a nice backdrop and interesting ground features.  Looks like balls could be played on the ground on the left side of the green and feed down to the putting surface.
•   Hole no. 18 is another good hole along the lake but it feels a bit like a clichι.  However, I must admit to liking it nonetheless.  A tee shot along the water is definitely favoured here to have a good access to the green surface.  Well done.
Best Holes:    Hole no. 7 - Par 4
      Hole no. 13 - Par 4
Hole no. 17 - Par 3

[C. Squier]

The only course whose marshals have the motto, "we don't cause trouble, we don't bother nobody".

Love it.

CPS

[Jim Colton]

6th Hole - Par 4, 434 Yards - "Gold Rush"

Downhill par 4 that bends left to right.

Any ideas on how I can solve this blindness problem on my 6th hole?  I painted myself into a corner w/ the 5th hole (which I like), but any subsequent next tee shot is likely to be completely blind.  It is feasible to melt down the ridge where the middle tee sits, either filling in the sharp drop towards the entrance road or making the slope down the fairway more gradual?  I think this might work because the same slope on the 5th is much more gradual.

I thought I could solve the problem by changing the routing a little bit with a short par 4 6th, adding a par 3 7th, making the old 7th the new 8th, then making the old 8 into a revised par 4 9th.  [Edit:  I also took the opportunity to tweak 2 & 3 by making 2 a short par 5 and moving #3.]  I like the new 6th hole and this revised routing in general, but it's still completely blind.  It would probably benefit from the same type of earthmoving.

Any comments or suggestions?  Did they move earth on the 10th at EH?

[Anthony Gray]

  Jim,

  Hands down the best course name. This site could use a little more Snoop Dog.

  Anthony

[Charlie Goerges]

Jim, I don't know if you need to solve the blindness. You might just need to run the fairway back and do some Fazio-style aiming/framing bunkers. If you do want to get rid of that blindness (without earthmoving) I think you could run a par 3 to that far ridge, and then tee off from on top of it. I'll try to post an image of what I mean.

[Charlie Goerges]

Here is what I meant:

[Ian_L]

Hi Jim, I was back in that same corner.  My solution was similar to Charlie's, except my par-3 went down the hill to the "east" of his green, by the road.  I kind of liked the hole, although it would leave a big uphill walk to the next tee.

[Jim Colton]

Hi Jim, I was back in that same corner.  My solution was similar to Charlie's, except my par-3 went down the hill to the "east" of his green, by the road.  I kind of liked the hole, although it would leave a big uphill walk to the next tee.

  I was thinking of something similar to what Charlie had posted.  I sketched it out and may have something to share tonight.  I think it's workable.  The par 3 is a little short for my tastes, but given that ridge is very narrow and any resulting par 3 is probably going to be penal in nature, a short-iron is probably appropriate.  Essentially, it's the same shot as my original 9th hole, but 165 yards instead of 210.

  Dumb question for the masses: is it ill-advised to have a reachable par 5 as your 2nd hole?  Does this bring play to a standstill?

 

[Steve Lang]

  ? reachable par 5 as second hole?  it will always hold things up.  we have one as a 4th hole on one course and it creates a tremendous backup, especially in MGA events..

i really didn't want to have any in my Foothills Trail design.. except for potentially the last hole..

[Jordan Wall]

This is cool.  The golf course is great as is the theme.  The Snoop thing is catchy.

As far as the Snoop Dogg theme goes, check out his website.  In the textilizer portion type in anything you want, as long as you want, and it translates to snoop talk.  Pretty funny.

http://gizoogle.com/index.php?translate=false

Cheers,
Jordan

[Jim Colton]

Here's an overhead view with the topo lines, a la what Dan Moore did for some of the other entries.

[Jim Colton]

Based on some feedback and additional work with the site, I have come up with a revised routing for my course.  I tried to use the natural contours in a more interesting way for both the fairways and greens.  Hopefully I've succeeded.  More to follow, but please feel free to let me know what you think.  The old routing is directly above.

[Edit: Made some additional changes and updated again on Mar 30]

[Charlie Goerges]

Jim, I'm looking forward to it. Your new 6th reminds of the two or twenty hole at Engineers. At least from what I've seen of it in images and aerials.

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