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Padraig Dooley

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6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« on: June 03, 2008, 05:45:51 PM »
I played a course recently called The Shire near Barnet just outside London. It was designed by Seve Ballesteros and it has 6 par 3s, 6 par 4s and 6 par 5s.

This is the second course I've played with that configuration, the other was Larvik GC, a couple of hours from Oslo, Norway.

Both courses have only once have holes with consecutive pars 9 and 10 both 4s at The Shire and 7 and 8 at Larvik both 5s.

How many more courses have this configuration of 3s, 4s and 5s? I'm aware of The Berkshire(Red), can't think of any in Ireland.

There were some pace of play issues at the Shire, is this one of the reasons why there aren't too many more courses like it?

   
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Sean_A

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2008, 06:03:48 PM »
PD

Bransford near Worcester (as in Worcestershire) has the equal three way split of pars, but it isn't a good course.  I can recall knowing nothing about the course and starting in an odd spot for some reason.  It seemed an eternity before we played a par 4.  No, I remember now, the first two holes were par 4s.  the next six on the card are not 4s, but we skipped #s 9 & 10 because of slow play and we knew both these holes essentially flowed back to the house after 18 anyway.  We continued on 11.  So we went all the way to #16 before playing another par 4.  It was very wierd playing 12 holes without a par 4! 

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Pete_Pittock

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 06:26:27 PM »
Spring Hill in Albany OR
Old Course at Homestead

Here is a link to a thread discussing six par 3s, which is not your exact premise
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23120.0.html

Jim Sweeney

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 06:30:09 PM »
Forest Highlands in Flagstafff, AZ.
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Dan Kelly

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 07:02:02 PM »
Mississippi Dunes; Cottage Grove, Minnesota.

Terrible golf course, IMO -- though its  terribleness has nothing to do with its 6-6-6 layout.

The owner mostly designed it himself. Perhaps the Devil made him do it.

The Devil might be in the details -- but God was first. And God had nothing to do with the details at Mississippi Dunes.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 07:48:45 PM »
I think Forest Highlands is par-71, with "only" five par-5's.

The only course I can remember playing with 6-6-6 is The Berkshire (Red) outside of London.  Based on my experience there, it is a very flattering set-up for a course ... lots of birdie opportunities between the par fives and the par threes.  And not enough variety of par fours, for my tastes.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 07:52:06 PM »
GCA member Roy Case's new Park Ridge GC in Lake Worth, Palm Beach County, FL is a 6-6-6 course and is fun to play:

Here's the layout:

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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

james soper

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 09:30:44 PM »
haile plantation in gainesville, florida. gary player signature golf course. http://www.clubcorp.com/club/scripts/section/section.asp?NS=PCH&SUBGRP=15&MFCODE=HPGCC

Chris Moore

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 11:22:45 PM »
Copper Mill in Zachary, Louisiana.

Mark Pearce

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 04:12:43 AM »
The Berkshire Red is a very good course and no pace of play issues.  I disagree with Tom, there's plenty of variety in the par 4s - it's just that 3 or 4 of the long ones are called par 5s.  It might be one of the greatest par 68/69 courses around but even moderate golfers find it very easy to make birdies with all those short par 5s.  Of course, as we know, par isn't important so I thinkit's just a course with a great set of 2 or 3 shot holes.

Doug Ralston

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2008, 09:03:32 AM »
Crooked Tree in Cincinnati has 6-6-6. It is no super course, but certainly playable. It is tight, so the 'advantage' in scoring you might expect from 6 par-5's is somewhat negated.

Doug

Mike_Cirba

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 09:39:54 AM »
I'm not sure if it still exists after the Myrtle Beach course retraction of recent years, but Dan Maples designed a course there called Sandpiper Bay that had six of each.

Bedford Springs in PA has five of each, and the more amazing thing is that all of them are pretty terrific, particularly the par threes which are among the very best set I've ever played.

tlavin

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2008, 10:37:19 AM »
GCA member Roy Case's new Park Ridge GC in Lake Worth, Palm Beach County, FL is a 6-6-6 course and is fun to play:

Here's the layout:



This strikes me as a spectacular idea for a public golf course, because the par 5's and par 3's tend to be much more forgiving for the average golfer.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 10:49:17 AM »
Terry

Not only is Park Ridge fun to play, it is unique to South Florida in that there is elevation as the course is built on a former solid waste landfill. The par  5 12th, the par3 11th and the par4 8th are three of the better holes on the course.Pace of play was not an issue on the 2 times that I played there. I strongly suggest a visit if you're in the area.



"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jim Johnson

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 03:54:45 PM »
Guys, wouldn't pace of play become an issue, with six par-3 holes? Perhaps Bill Yates can chime in here.

Alfonso Erhardt

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2008, 04:11:41 PM »
It is quite a common feature in many of Ballesteros' designs, at least in the ones in Spain

Padraig Dooley

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2008, 05:18:08 PM »
Guys, wouldn't pace of play become an issue, with six par-3 holes? Perhaps Bill Yates can chime in here.

One of the days at the Shire was a Pro-Am with a shotgun start, the round took 5 hours 45 minutes, so pace of play is a big issue not only with the 6 par 3s and also all but one of the par 5s were reachable for the better players.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2008, 05:28:31 PM »
The Berkshire Red is a very good course and no pace of play issues.  I disagree with Tom, there's plenty of variety in the par 4s - it's just that 3 or 4 of the long ones are called par 5s.  It might be one of the greatest par 68/69 courses around but even moderate golfers find it very easy to make birdies with all those short par 5s.  Of course, as we know, par isn't important so I thinkit's just a course with a great set of 2 or 3 shot holes.

Yes, yes and yes.  So far the only better 36 holes I experiencedn at one venue is Sunnigdale and the Berkshire is hugely underated. 6,6,6 helps contrast the Red course from the Blue.  Go there.
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Greg Clark

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2008, 06:36:56 PM »
Our own Jeff Brauer designed one about 10 - 15 minutes from my house.  West Ridge Golf Course in McKinney (Dallas area), TX.  I haven't been out there in a few years.  I need to give it another try.

Jeff Grossman

Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2008, 07:42:10 PM »
Pace of play at Park Ridge is quite good for a public track.  The average round take between 3:45 and 4:15 hrs. to play.  The course is pretty much full every day.  They the course is routed, along with hole sequencing is key to this pace of play.  We also provided very generous playing areas with limited bunkering. 

I do not no about the other courses mentioned in this thread, but it certainly has work out fine a Park Ridge.


Guys, wouldn't pace of play become an issue, with six par-3 holes? Perhaps Bill Yates can chime in here.

Cory Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2008, 11:20:00 PM »
I think a course with that configuration would be a lot of fun.  So many courses have seven or eight fours in a row and it starts to feel like a slog.

Doug Siebert

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 01:38:22 AM »
Saddleback Ridge in Solon, IA is another one.

Holes 12-17 are a string of 3-5-3-5-5-3, probably the longest unbroken string of non-par 4s you'll find anywhere outside a par 3 course.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Matthew Rose

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 05:47:08 AM »
There's a course in Lincoln, Nebraska I used to play a lot called Mahoney, which is a par-70 course with six 3s, but what was striking about it is that they were all exactly the same length, except for one really short one on the back nine (#12?). I think it was 190, 195, 195, 130, 195, 190.

I got pretty sick of hitting 5-irons.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:48:58 AM by Matt Rose »
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 02:15:45 PM »
I really don't think it matters if the design is good. I could quite see Tom Doak doing this if the ground suggested it.

Dan Moore

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Re: 6 threes 6 fours 6 fives
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2008, 06:34:11 PM »
William Langford used this configuration a couple of times in his early designs.  He had 6/6/6 at at Bryn Mawr CC near Chicago and at Innsbrook CC near Gary, Indiana.  Bryn Mawr converted two long par 3's to par 4's and two short par 5's to 4's and now has a conventional 10/4/4 configuration.  Innsbrook retains the original routing.  Innsbrook is holding a USGA Mid-Am qualifier this year. 

Here is a view of Innsbrook today. 


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