[M.R. Kramer]

Don,

Being raised in Traverse City for more than 15 years I know plenty about quality golf around the area. I unfortunately do  not live there anymore. It is a beautiful area. Second to none.

First of all...I would not recommend playing Highpointe. The only thing it has going for itself is the low green fees and it variety of 9's. It you want to play a course that is both cheap in its design, and green fees...then Highpointe is for you. Good luck holding your shot on the approach (green are rock hard and slow)!!!! The 8th green is the worst green ever. You need an elevator to get to the top tier. Also if you are on the 10th green, bring a helmet because someone might be firing an approach shot at the flag that they can not see. I heard they did redesign it so maybe it is better now. Don't worry Tom, I love Pacifica Dunes. Great Job!There is a reason why the green fees are so low at this course.

Courses that I would recommend: The Bear (GT Resort) very difficult, Treetops (Fazio), Arcadia Bluffs,the Legend and I have heard good things about the Kingsley Club (although I have not played it).

What you really need to do is find someone that is a member at Crystal Downs (good luck).

If you really want to go low then play Elmbrook on TC. You can brag to everone after that round

If all else fails enjoy the Bay of Lake Michigan.

[Nick_Ficorelli]

John L:
Lochenheath is   a players course...It is walkable, some holes were a bit tight off  the tee last season, but I am sure that  that will be cut back a little as it matures.
Having played all the courses in the area for years, there are certainly others within a 1 hr. drive that I would recommend ,but short of a invitation to Kinglsey Club, I would   pass on all but High Pte. and Lockenheath .
Worth the trip:
Black Forest,Belvedere,Smith(Treetops),Black Lake

[Dan_Lucas]

There is almost no fescue left at High Pointe. It was managed to extinction. The course is almost totally converted to Annual bluegrass now.

[Don_Mahaffey]

I had a chance to play 36 holes with Joe Hancock yesterday, High Pointe in the AM, and The Kingsley Club in the PM where Dan Lucas joined us.
I came away from High Pointe impressed by the design and depressed by the poor conditioning. Lack of grass was not a problem, there was plenty, (not much fescue), but the 6 inch primary rough and overall wet, soggy,( low 90's with no rain the week I've been here) overly lush turf was a bummer. I thought the course design was really very good and I loved the greens, but unfortunatly they were hard to appreciate when rolling about 6 on the stimp. Whenever I play a course like that I come away scratcing my head wondering if the owners have no idea what a jewel they have or are simply inept. Maybe in this case both. Good golf properties have a theme they carry from start to finish. Whether it's great service or raw golf, the good ones get it right. I have no idea what this property is trying to accomplish, but the empty parking lot during the week of the 4th of July is telling.
The Kingsley club is a different story. Good golf is the goal and they get it right. If you love golf course management spend an afternoon with Dan Lucas. There's a guy who has a passion for what he does and he does it very well. The course has been talked about a lot here and it does not disapoint. It's hard for me to think of a better course I've played, it is very good design. To me, what is even more impressive is the perfect blend of design and maintenence. They get it right, if you love firm and fast, and a course with options, this is the place. I'm not a course rater but I don't understand how this course gets ranked below others I've played. I loved the course and the attitude of pure golf is refreshing.    

[brad_miller]

Don, how would you compare KC to Rustic Canyon?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Brad,
Both RC and KC are built on sand and have very good greens complexes. I'm not sure of the connection between Doak, Hanse, and DeVries, but those gents build the type of greens I love. Some might call them over the top from time to time, but I have great respect for the chances they take and the uniqueness of their greens. Both Rc and KC have 18 unique greens and in that way the courses are similar. KC has more bunkers then RC and they are generally more severe. The
site at KC has much more movement then the gently sloping canyon that RC is built on. RC is more forgiving off the tee, but there is plenty of room to hit the ball at KC. I only felt squeezed at the par 5 17th at KC, a short one at just over 500 yds. What both courses have in common is the need, not just the option, but the need to use the ground if your going to get close to the hole. I can't say enough about the blend of design and maintenance at KC, it is done to perfection and
with their small membership they should be able to keep it up. I know that's important at RC too, but time will tell if the course will hold up to the high volume of rounds. KC and RC are two courses serving two different types of golfer, but I sure do hope they are signs of where design and management are headed in the future. For those of you who haven't seen KC, it is worth the price of a trip to Northern Michigan.

[tchsg05]

How could you pass up on the bear at grand traverse resort?  It is a much truer test of skill than lochenheath with no tricked up greens.  And highpointe is always in terrible condition.  The back nine is the only reason to go.  The bear, designed by nicklaus, is an awesome course.  Maybe thats why the hold the michigan open there instead of, well, lochenheath.

[Joe Hancock]

D Kring,

The Michigan Open has been at The Bear for umpteen years running. Regardless of new venues in the area, I would imagine it takes more than just a better golf course to lure away such a large golf event. Apparently you didn't like Lochenheath? Why? I have not played it yet, but after a roung of golf last winter with Mr. Smyers at Southern Dunes, I would suspect that strategy and features were well thougt out. He has a pretty full grasp of the game.

Joe

[Steve Lang]

I just played the Black Forest and Highpointe back to back and think y'all are missing the pointe... you want manicured conditions... pay $145 at the bear... the greens there are fine, they are difficult if you don't roll it well...  Can't get it to the back on HP's #8,... run it up there... Lousy 18th... you nuts!!! Must of bit off too much and put too many in the water eh?  

Bear-trap...The Mich Open was at Schuss Mountain for many years, before and after the bear was in bankruptcy ... it couldn't get the play $... beyond the resort suckers.  even my wife thinks the Bear is over-rated... and what about Player's Wolverine??

A regional hidden gem is Grandview, just north off M-72 east of Kalksaka... $25 after 3 PMfor all you can play... or go get scalped by the Chief,,, an interesting newer course for those who like forced carries...

Cheers

[Nick_Ficorelli]

Black Forest remains my favorite in the area,
but,its just too damn wet.
All the ground features are compromised as they insist on green and lush. The 2nd hole was always one of my favorites with a blind , ripping left to right 2nd shot cut off the hill into the green.
Couldn't wait to get up there and see how close I got.
Now, sadly, the shot just dies in the mush and divots in front of the green.

[tchsg05]

 If you are a skilled golfer I would highly recommend going to Grand Traverse Resort and play the bear.  It is a wonderful course and you are sure to enjoy your round.  You may also want to try lochenheath.  Very difficult if you dont hit the ball long and straight.  Enjoy

[tchsg05]

 If you are a skilled golfer I would highly recommend going to Grand Traverse Resort and play the bear.  It is a wonderful course and you are sure to enjoy your round.  You may also want to try lochenheath.  Very difficult if you dont hit the ball long and straight.  Enjoy

[Anthony_Nysse]

The Bear and the words wonderful don't belong on this site!! The Bear is an example of Nicklaus giving a client what he wanted. It's an over the top resort course that because of it's difficulty and high prices had a very difficult time making it. As manufactured as Arcadia Bluffs is, I think that I'll take it ANY day over the Bear....even Rees' Thousand Oaks is more preferred by me, but Pilgrim's Run still takes the crown!!

[David Wigler]

The third book I ever read on golf architecture was Brad Klein's Rough Meditations.  It is still the most readable book I have ever seen on the subject.  In it (And I am paraphrasing because I do not remember the exact quote) Brad said something like "I still go back to the Bear to remind myself of everything that is wrong with golf course design."

The Bear may be a great test of golf, but it is a horrible golf course.

[ed_getka]

The Bear is a good place to start a foundation of archtiecture learning. Next go to High Pointe down the road and in spite of the conditioning you will see some pretty interesting stuff, then go to Kingsley Club to see a great modern course, finish at Crystal Downs for the classic perspective and I doubt you would ever venture back to The Bear.

[tchsg05]

The Bear and the words wonderful don't belong on this site!! The Bear is an example of Nicklaus giving a client what he wanted. It's an over the top resort course that because of it's difficulty and high prices had a very difficult time making it. As manufactured as Arcadia Bluffs is, I think that I'll take it ANY day over the Bear....even Rees' Thousand Oaks is more preferred by me, but Pilgrim's Run still takes the crown!!
If the the other courses are so great how come they dont hold the michigan open at any of them?

[Joe Hancock]

OK, Tony,

Follow the logic: Therefore, the course that hosts The Michigan Open must be the best golf course.

Any questions?

Sarcastic as ever,

Joe

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