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Mark Bourgeois

Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« on: August 28, 2007, 10:00:04 AM »
Good info on this site re the provenance of the course.

I particularly enjoyed this GCA.com thread.  Be sure to pay attention to Brad Klein's reply #57 and to read Michael Fay's writeup praising the quality of Spence's restoration..

But no pics, so here are a few of the front nine.  These greens are fast even by top-tier private course standards! They bedevil the golfer with slope not  contour.

1 tee, par 4.  The strategery starts right here, as you'd think you want to hit your shot right (the line to the green is between those two large trees), but in fact the angle of the green indicates for the best angle in, the golfer must aim left, potentially bringing into play the stream over there


1 approach


1 green.


I did the worst thing possible preparing for my round: I spent about 15 minutes on the practice green, of which 13 were unmowed-green prep time, followed by 2 minutes of mowed-green time.  And so I was well below this first green on approach, 8 feet above for my second putt, 15 feet below for my third putt. Tap in for my fourth!


2 tee, par 3 (1 green in foreground). The challenge is apparent; carry creek, yet stay below the hole


2 green, from right. Alas, 4 putt


3 tee, par 5.  This is a neat ANGC 13th-type hole. Lay up off the tee or try to cut the corner


3 approach. Do or die time: to go for the green you must carry a stream with a sharp bank. The temptation to quasi-bail by playing over the stream to the left is tempting...


...and a better option than trying to lay up as close to green as possible (shades of 13 ANGC, yes?)


3 green


3 green, from 7 tee. Lots of neat vistas out here


4 tee, par 4 up and (a little) over. Number 1 stroke hole


4 approach


4 green, as seen from left and 5 tee (many short green-to-tee walks out here!)


5 tee, par 4. The terror of this hole is a busy road steps to the right!


5 approach. This approach reminds me a little of the 5th(?) at PB Dye GC


5 green


6 tee, par 4. Here's another example of what Ross did so well: a "barrel-straight" uphill par 4 that plays from an elevated tee.  Like looking down a barrel, distances appear deceiving, and this hole plays loonnng.


6 approach


6 green, from right. Note slope


6 green, from left


7 tee, par 3. The par 3s collectively have a higher slope rating than any course I've played (2nd=9, 7th=5, 9th=3, 14th=18, 17th=10).  In the morning round I played the middle tees (190 yards) and could not understand why.  Then I moved back for the afternoon (220 yards) and experienced the terror of holes like this


7 green, from back right. Note falloff into chasm of death. Green also falls off to back and, to a lesser extent, the front.  A conservative tee shot away from the chasm gives the golfer a terrifying putt to this flag: gently uphill, then the falloff after, all on a verrry fast green. Yikes!


8 tee, par 5 up and over


8 approach.  Excellence in deception: Note how green appears "connected" to fairway. In fact, there is a huge swale and the green is much farther away


8 green. Note elevation: green is 15-20 feet higher than fairway swale 30 yards in front


8 green


9 tee


9 tee, another brutal par 3


9 green "approach" (You know what I'm talking about)


9 green.  The 2002 restoration brought greens back to their original sizes and shapes


The stream to the left of 9 green influences or directly affects play on 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, and 9.  The man knew how to make a lot out of a little.

Speaking of which, for Bunkerman: 18 bunkers on front nine, 2 and 7 bunkerless. Bunkerless par 3s, wow.

Back nine whenever I get a chance.

Mark



« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 03:59:02 PM by Mark Bourgeois »

Brent Hutto

Re:Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2007, 10:11:14 AM »
2 tee, par 3 (1 green in foreground). The challenge is apparent; carry creek, yet stay below the hole


2 green, from right. Alas, 4 putt

This is basically the eighth hole at Pasatiempo except with a crick! I love that hole at Pasa and I'll bet I'd love this one, too. How long is the shot here?

I'm also surprised at a resort-type course in this litigious age still having a tee shot over the head of a putting green for a different hole. I guess you just wait for those folks to putt out.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2007, 10:25:05 AM »
Brent,

180 from the middle tees, 210 from the backs. Middle tee is below and to right of this vantage. Impossible to hit 1 green.

Backs actually are to the right of this vantage. You could hit 1 green from those tees but it would have to be one hell of a "pitch out."

Mark

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 12:18:19 PM »
Mark


8 years and no opportunities to finish the tour?  Bottom line, is Grove Park Inn worth a go?  If not, is there a course close to Asheville which is worth a go?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 12:25:01 PM »
Timely bump Sean. I'm heading to Asheville Thursday. I don't know if I'll have time to break away for a round or not, but Grove Park is on the list of places that would be close enough to swing by if it's worth seeing.


For those who have played it, what's the verdict?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 01:00:15 PM »
Mark: I am planning a trip to the area and would like to talk to you about it.  Could you send me a message with your contact information?

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 03:16:37 PM »
Wife has high school friends in the area.  Grove Park looks like a go.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 03:29:22 PM »
The Director of Golf is Simon Andres who used to work at Hershey. He's a good guy and I've been meaning to make a trip down. Seeing these pictures bumped up to the first page has whetted my appetite further. Need to talk to the wife.

GLawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 08:50:28 PM »
Great pics.  I think Omni deserves credit for investing in classic courses, Bedford Springs, Cascades, and Grove Park.  These old properties have to be costly to operate.

Greg Krueger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 11:00:00 AM »
I have played about a dozen rounds at the Grove Park Inn and strongly recommend it. There is good variety, is usually in very good condition (Maybe a little soft at times) and is absolutely beautiful with lots of vistas of the course, hotel and surrounding mountains.
Stay Below The Hole!!!!!

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 11:16:19 AM »
Timely bump Sean. I'm heading to Asheville Thursday. I don't know if I'll have time to break away for a round or not, but Grove Park is on the list of places that would be close enough to swing by if it's worth seeing.


For those who have played it, what's the verdict?

Absolutely worth a play! Biltmore Forest is probably better, as is Mimosa Hills (an hour away), but you'll enjoy it.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 02:08:54 PM »
Mark -


I love the Jones plaque. What year was his last round at GPI?


Bob

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 10:28:47 PM »
Mark


8 years and no opportunities to finish the tour?  Bottom line, is Grove Park Inn worth a go?  If not, is there a course close to Asheville which is worth a go?


Ciao

What I should've done is just email a few pics of the back to Brent. Nobody cared about this course so why waste the time?

I see you may play Roaring Gap. Can we please just have one course on here, just one, without a million pics? A nice remote course that retains its mysteries and mystique, that we don't even see through a glass darkly?
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2015, 11:14:15 PM »
Mark


8 years and no opportunities to finish the tour?  Bottom line, is Grove Park Inn worth a go?  If not, is there a course close to Asheville which is worth a go?


Ciao

What I should've done is just email a few pics of the back to Brent. Nobody cared about this course so why waste the time?

I see you may play Roaring Gap. Can we please just have one course on here, just one, without a million pics? A nice remote course that retains its mysteries and mystique, that we don't even see through a glass darkly?

There are plenty of Roaring Gap photos floating around in here. 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 03:36:49 AM »
Mark


8 years and no opportunities to finish the tour?  Bottom line, is Grove Park Inn worth a go?  If not, is there a course close to Asheville which is worth a go?


Ciao

What I should've done is just email a few pics of the back to Brent. Nobody cared about this course so why waste the time?


Mark


There are over 1100 hits for average pix of 9 holes...how much interest were you expecting?   


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 07:16:26 PM »
Who cares about hits? Also, the "pix" are below-average.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 07:35:13 PM »
Wish I had seen this thread back in '07. This course looks very cool--definitely my type of place. For some reason, the pictures remind a lot of Leatherstocking--tight site, hilly terrain, quirky green complexes. I'll put it on the (ever-lengthening) list.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Joe Sponcia

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2015, 09:50:26 PM »
I walked a little bit of the perimeter of the course and could see a fair amount from above the property.  What I saw was over-treed, bowling alley fairways, and not much fun. 


Grove Park doesn't appear to be in the same stratosphere as Biltmore Forest.  I'm going to find an excuse to play Mimosa this fall...but it definitely comes highly recommended.
Joe

https://pillarsofgolf.wordpress.com

"If the hole is well designed, a fairway can't be too wide". - Mike Nuzzo

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2015, 10:04:51 PM »
I walked a little bit of the perimeter of the course and could see a fair amount from above the property.  What I saw was over-treed, bowling alley fairways, and not much fun. 


Grove Park doesn't appear to be in the same stratosphere as Biltmore Forest.  I'm going to find an excuse to play Mimosa this fall...but it definitely comes highly recommended.


I really enjoyed Mimosa Hills and hope you find your way there.

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2015, 07:13:21 AM »
I've not played Biltmore Forest but am to understand it's a notch above Grove Park, which I think is great and on par with Roaring Gap. I think Old Town and Musgrove Mill are a cut above still. Mimosa and CCoA are highly enjoyable.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 01:55:40 PM »
I didn't play golf in Asheville, but I did have a few drinks on the patio at Grove Park before walking five or six of the holes on the back nine with my wife, spending about 45 minutes watching people play their way around. After seeing those holes, I really couldn't imagine forking over the green fee when I could instead go drink for 5 hours at any of the local breweries in town and come out with a tab half as expensive and far less of a headache.


While Mark's photos show some strategic holes with nice green complexes, they also reveal some of the course's obvious routing constraints. Personally, I'm not especially excited about playing a resort course with multiple instances of teeing off over the green of another hole. I've seen the games of the golfers at Grove Park, and I don't like my chances of coming out of there without a head injury.


I didn't see much of the front nine up close though. The back, on the other hand, was a different story. I got good looks at groups playing 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, and 18, and passing glances at 13 and 14 as well. 15 is sort of a cute hole, and 10 and 11 weren't bad. But man, that finishing stretch is among the worst I've seen. Can anyone defend 16-18? I watched multiple groups play each of those holes, and they looked utterly awful. Narrow, jammed-in, and neutered. 18 was particularly bad, as it looked like an elongated version of the 17th at Crystal Downs with more severe slopes, an even tighter version of Crystal's already non-existent landing area, and with far more potential liability for a miss. Honestly, after seeing that one hole I had already lost my appetite to pay $140 to play the place. The patio at Grove Park is amazing. It would be a tragedy to waste time golfing that could be spent drinking there.


Has Ross' level of involvement in the course ever been confirmed?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 02:54:21 PM »
I've played Grove Park Inn two, maybe three, times in past  couple of years.  I'd agree that the front is better than the back, but I am not a fan of the course and would not choose, on my own, to go back.  I prefer CC of Asheville, which I used to be able to get on via reciprocal, but that arrangement with my club no longer exists.  I've played Biltmore Forest once, two years ago, I think, and liked it, but would have to go around again to be sure.  Our round there was interrupted several times by passing thunderstorms which made the course very wet and broke our rhythm.  All these courses were originally Ross. Ten years or so ago, plus/minus, Kris Spence did a lot of reworking at Grove Park.  Asheville (or Buncombe Co.?) muni is also a Ross, but when I've played it, again several times in the past 10 years, it's been in terrible shape, in too many ways to describe.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Grove Park Inn Pics (Front Nine)
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2015, 11:02:14 PM »
All these courses were originally Ross.


Grove Park Inn was originally Barker.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

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