[ed_getka]

Either Miller is an idiot or I just haven't heard anyone use the term before. In the Jan 2005 Golf Digest Johnny decides to educate the golfing masses by defining backboards and "fault" lines. He calls the slope the ball heads down from one tier to another as the fault line. From my skiing days it was the fall line, and I would assume it would be the same for golf. Does anyone else use fault line?

[S. Huffstutler]

Believe me....it's not you.

steve

[ed_getka]

Great, now we've got Miller "teaching" architecture terminology WRONG!

[Phil_the_Author]

Ed,

This is the man who routinely tells his audience that putts "hook" and "slice" so in a contest of who is the idiot my vote goes along with Steve's. It ain't you.

[Brent Hutto]

Well, for what it's worth I've never heard the term "fall line" until reading this thread. But then again I've never been on snow skies or won a US Open so I can't say with authority which is the preferred term.

I will say that when I've heard Johnny Miller (and other TV announcers) say "fault line" it was quite clear that they were talking about a major, abrupt change in elevation of the green. So whether he's an idiot or not the term certainly conveys the meaning he intends, which is good enough for me.

[Greg Holland]

In Johnny's defense, I believe he was using the term "fault line" like it is used in geology--which means (according to my dictionary) "a break in the continuity of a body".  

[A_Clay_Man]

Perhaps he uses the term so to distinguish between the actual fall line?

Brent, The fall line, is where two slopes, vectored in different directions meet, to form the straight line. Almost like a Double break straight, except this is actually straight..

 I assume it is the vector where, or how, the surface drainage flows linearly.

[Brent Hutto]

Perhaps he uses the term so to distinguish between the actual fall line?

Brent, The fall line, is where two slopes, vectored in different directions meet, to form the straight line. Almost like a Double break straight, except this is actually straight..

 I assume it is the vector where, or how, the surface drainage flows linearly.

OK, now I understand the meaning. A lot of greens at my home course have tiers but the transition between them doesn't tend to be along a "fall line", it's more of a (sometimes irregular) curve like I'd imagine seeing along a "fault line" where there's been an earthquake. So maybe both terms have utility but they're describing different things with a "fall line" being the linear subset of possible "fault lines" beween sections of a green. Or something like that.

To me "fault line" connotes something abrupt and obvious wheras "fall line" could very well be the meeting of two slopers which are quite subtly different. Maybe if I played on similar greens to those on Tour I'd agree that Johnny Miller should be using a term with more subtle connotations.

[TEPaul]

It just amazes me how many seem to love to hate Johnny Miller. I don't get it. People on here are constantly calling the guy an idiot, a terrible golf commentator etc. I like Johnny and I like him because he really does say it like he sees it pretty much unflltered. It's also my distinct sense when it comes to understanding golf, particularly tournament golf that Miller knows about ten times more than all of us on here put together. But of course I'm sure it will never cease to amaze me how many on here will never understand that!

[ed_getka]

Tom,
  I like Johnny Miller as a broadcaster too. However, when he decides to "teach" people about architecture I would prefer that know what he is talking about. When someone such as Miller has a forum to spout off in such as Golf Digest I don't think it is too much to ask, given the number of readers he is reaching.

[ed_getka]

He also states in the same lesson that Shinnecock has a backboard on the front left side of 16 green. I haven't been to Shinne. but if the slope is where he says it is, isn't that a sideboard? The funny thing is is that he uses the term sideboard in his paragraph, but then gives an example that seems to be wrong when he calls something that sounds to me like a sideboard a backboard.
   In JM's defense he is defining his commentary for viewers who may not understand what he is talking about. I just feel there are enough words in the English language already, why not just use what exists?

  "A fault line marks the precipice of a tier or slope where the ball will take the break and roll away from the slope toward the hole."

[DMoriarty]

"A 'fault line' marks the precipice of a tier or slope where the ball will take the break and roll away from the slope toward the green." (Johnny Miller in Golf Digest, January, 2005)

Like Ed, I've usually heard the term "fall line" in a skiing context.  In skiing it means the direction down a slope where pull of gravity will move an otherwise force-neutral object, like a ball or water.  

It is actually a very useful concept in golf, especially in putting.   If you can figure out "the fall line" above the hole, then lag putting becomes much easier.  I think the term has come up now and then on this site.  

I looked the concept up online and it turns out that "fall line" has a related but distinct meaning in geology.  According to allrefer.com a fall line is "boundary between an upland region and a coastal plain across which rivers from the upland region drop to the plain as falls or rapids. A fall line is formed in an area where the rivers have eroded away the soft rocks of a coastal plain more quickly than the older harder rocks of an upland region. Such erosion follows a crooked line along a coast."  So there is a long fall line inland from the Atlantic, generally the point at which large boats can no longer pass.  

It seems this second definition of fall line could also apply to golf--  the line at which one level drops down to another level could be called a fall line.  Probably the meandering line at the top edge of a ridge seperating two tiers, or the meandering line at the bottom of a ridge seperating two tiers.  

As for Miller's "fault line"  I am not so sure where he gets that one.   One can have an abrupt vertical break at  a fault (where the movement has been up and down), but one can also have horizontal movement which will not necessarily result in a vertical drop.   Not sure what he means by "away from the slope and toward the green."

Perhaps he overheard a conversation between skiers in Salt Lake where they were discussing throwing themselves off a precipice and down a fall line, liked the sound of it and he thought he'd apply it to golf . . . . just a guess.  

[Mike Benham]

I believe Miller is using the pro golfer's definition of "Fault Line" ... depending on which side of the cup the putt misses on, the pro will blame the bad read on the caddie or the grain ...

[ed_getka]

David,
   The last word is hole, not green. Thus the confusion. Thanks for coming out to Rustic the other day, I had a great time.

[Bob_Huntley]

.

He is unfiltered, bit that's only good for some wines, I suppose, especially Pinot Noir.  

p.s. Merlot is generally such crap, it doesn't matter what you do with it....... and it rots the mind.

Bill,

Have you read or seen "Sideways"? Rex Pickett, the author agrees with you a thousand percent. As do I.

Bob

[Mike McGuire]

Ed -

Thanks for starting this thread. I have been debating this all year. Two guys i know regularly use fault line...i have suggested to them  its fall line. When the JM article came out it didnt take them long to let me know. I vote for  FALL LINE

[Mike McGuire]

Bob -

I've seen "sideways" .....Perhaps after I finish this bottle of "Earthquake Zin"   i could vote for fault line.

[Lou_Duran]

What is the purpose of speech and communications?  Did anyone fail to understand what JM meant by using (or misusing) the term fault line?

Some 15 years ago, I worked for a woman who was less than careful with her use of the language.  She kept talking about mute points, and it took me awhile to figure out that she really meant to say "moot".  As a diversion, me and a couple of colleagues started using the phrase "mutant point" in her presence, and she never corrected us.  She knew that we were talking about mute points.  Not long ago I heard a very smart looking guy spouting about something very complex, and then he blew it all off by saying that it was all "mute".

Perhaps Mr. Miller and my former boss knew exactly what they were doing.  Due to their pedagogary, we all now know what a fall line (and a moot point) is.  

[TEPaul]

"HE so strongly believes he's right when he hasn't a clue.....it's unequalled in any sports broadcasting.

redanman;

And who is it who's determining he hasn't a clue?  

[Mike_Young]

Johnny Miller stupid? yeah like a fox....
Fall...fault...we all know what he means.

[Michael Whitaker]

Lou - it's "a couple of colleagues and I" - but, we get the idea.  

[DMoriarty]

Johnny Miller stupid? yeah like a fox....
Fall...fault...we all know what he means.

I am still not sure what he means.   ". . . roll away from the slope . . . "  What slope and what does he mean by "roll away from" it?  If the ball was just at the precipice, then shouldnt it be rolling down the slope, not away from it.   I still am not sure what he means.   Seriously.  

I dont think he is talking about what is known as a "fall line" in skiing and (sometimes) in golf.  But I am not sure what else he could be talking about, or its relevance.  

[Mike_Young]

IMHO he speaking of the arc the ball would take from the time it left the putter until it came to rest when putting across a slope.  And also IMHO that would vary according to speed therefore the fall/fault line could and would be different for each person on the same putt.  But I also think there is a specific spot on a slope where a putt loses enough speed thhat it just "falls" in an almost straight line.  JMO

[A_Clay_Man]

Mike Young, The arc the ball travels is neither the fall, or the fault line.

In JM's colloquialease, It's MY opinion he uses "fault" to describe the ridge line of the feature, not the eliptical decaying orbit the ball travels.

Typically these ridge lines are precipises, and some have contrary slopes on the opposite side of that ridge line.

Fall Line, in the context of putting, is as I described above.

i.e.
 You have a back right pin to a green that slopes from back to front and from right to left. There is ONE spot, from above, and slightly right of the hole, (approx 45 degrees) where the putt will not break, because it is being evenly influenced by both slopes. Ergo straight. That is the Fall Line.

If the ball had been slightly more right of this SPOT, the putt will break slightly left. And if the ball had been slightly left of the SPOT, it will break right.


Any other use of the term, when talking about putting, is, IMO, inaccurate.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Ed Getka,

I'm surprised at you.

How could any Californian be taken to task for explaning the differentiation between one of two contiquous land forms by refering to them as "fault lines" ?  

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