News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
This course was once private but now is open to the public.  There are 27 holes in the aerial, 18 are easy to see and 9 somewhat obscured.  Don't know why that is, maybe the 9 hole course didn't have irrigation or was just being built.  

1939 Aerial


1930 Routing Map


Present Day Google


Present Day Routing Map
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 10:13:21 AM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 05:30:34 PM »
Dan, You never cease to amaze me with how much I don't know about Chicago golf.

I suspect a Langford but other than the bunker shapes, and their directional slant, I have nothing to base that assumption on.

If there were more str8 holes I'd have guessed Bon Vivant. But that's probably due to the color of the B&W. ;D

Obtuse clues please?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 06:49:45 PM »
You want obscure, I'll give you obscure.  A former Chicago Tribune writer once coined an oft used phrase about the area where this course is located.  That writer's first published story was  "Golf Ball Strikes Back" a story about a man who  cut open a golf ball with a liquid center that exploded and squirted him in the eye.  

Of course you could also still use the Horace Greeley clue from the last one for one of the names of this course.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2006, 10:54:34 AM »
Here is a little more help and evidence that Adam was on to something.  The acronynm for the phrase used by the former Tribune writer is TLBO.  

This is the 16th hole, a 560 yd par 5 viewed from around 230 yds from the green.  The hole is located in the upper left quadrant of the aerial featuring the large fairway sand bunkers encroaching the fairway at about 200 yds from the green creating partial blindness for the landing zone for the second shot.  It looks like there were two bunkers with sand originally where this recent photo shows one bunker with no sand.  

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 12:01:36 PM »
Ah, the land beyond O'Hare!

Is this in Glenview by any chance?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2006, 12:02:27 PM »
Dan, I'm as anti-tribune as they come. So, I have no idea about the acronym, the phrase or the writer.

The course looks like it's in Bridgeport.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2006, 12:48:16 PM »
How much of the original bunkering and structure is still there?
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2006, 02:28:58 PM »
Shivas nailed this one.  It is currently called Schaumburg GC and hosted this year's Senior Illinois Open won by Bob Mack of Itasca at 3 under over 36 holes. It is a Langford and Moreau design as Adam astutely pointed out.  When it opened it was called Westmoor CC, later Roselle CC, then Golden Acres.  Appears not to have been very successful over the years having undergone several ownership changes over the year before the Schaumburg Park District took over the course in 1989 or thereabouts.  At that time they did alot of work on the course to correct years of neglect and lack of maintenance.  I played with someone who said the maintenance and course conditions were not good.  When Schaumburg took over all of the bunkering was redone at that time in a style that is very much not in tune with L&M.   The good news is appears the left most of the greens themselves intact and most but not all of the original L&M fairway mounding is there (as seen in the above photo) although now without sand.  The further good news is the fact they plan to redo all of the bunkers in the next 3-4 years and I was informed would be returning to the original L&M style.  There are still 27 holes though the nines and been combined so the original 18 is split between each of the nines. I gave the current Director of Golf a copy of this aerial.  I have a bunch of other photos and an old routing plan which I will post later on.  As you will see from the photos it is a nice piece of property.  At present the course suffers from a personality disorder between the old and the new but nothing that can't be cured with proper intervention and treatment.  
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 02:40:06 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2006, 02:31:44 AM »
This is one of the more interesting aerials I've seen. I like the
numerous "reef" type bunkers. What are all of those
earthworks/ripples on the left side of the aerial (not in the course).

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2006, 10:11:09 AM »
The ripples you see are classic L&M earthworks on the other nine holes.  I don't know why they are not more visible like the original 18, my guess is lack of irrigation as the 1930 map clearly shows the 3rd nine already in place.  SGC Dir of Golf told me there is a marked difference between the greens on the original 18 and the 3rd nine with the original 18 greens featuring significant undulation and false fronts, etc.  The 3rd 9 greens are much flatter.  We speculated the 3rd nine was intended as a beginners course.  

You can the extent to which the original bunkering has been modified by comparing the two aerials.  I will post pictures later.  

One of the questions this aerial begs is how good could this course could be if it was restored to its L&M roots.  It is good enough now to hold a major state wide tournament.  I will get into that when I post the pictures.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2006, 11:00:35 AM »
Dan,
This is a wonderful tutorial.

If I may be so bold as to question if K&N did the newer version?

I concur with you that if the principles and landforms were re-instated the course would be exponentially better. The DOG is fortunate to have you showing him the value of treating his course like a work of art. It can only add to the long term value.

 I'm no Royko expert....TLBO? please.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2006, 12:14:11 PM »
Dan,
This is a wonderful tutorial.

If I may be so bold as to question if K&N did the newer version?

I concur with you that if the principles and landforms were re-instated the course would be exponentially better. The DOG is fortunate to have you showing him the value of treating his course like a work of art. It can only add to the long term value.

 I'm no Royko expert....TLBO? please.

Adam,

"The Land Beyone O'Hare"  I grew up there, in Arlington Heights, which as noted by Shivas probably developed before Shaumberg, since it was on a CNW rail line.  However, the western burbs also had a CNW line and a Milwaukee Road line.  I always thought the NW was developed by OHare and the west by Woodfield Mall and a better highway system.

KN split up in 83, and we hadn't done any work there. If it was done in 89, as Dan suggest, then it was Nugent, Killian, or Lohman, with my guess being the latter based on the newly posted photo.  As always, I could be wrong, but Nugent at least had moved to some more interesting things (Jim Engh worked with him in this time frame, I think) than what I see and Ken was trying to move to California market.  The ground level shot resembles Lohmann bunkers I have seen, and Bob stayed with pretty simple bunker patterns, sometimes as a result of the general tightness of the property on the old courses.

Dan,

Thanks for these photos, each of which I save.  As a kid interested in Golf Architecture, I played Golden Acres and saw little architectural merit at the time.  I wasn't as keyed in to Langford and Moreau at the time, but I recall most of the bunkers being gone at that point. I should have recogized the lake in the middle.

All should note the french drain tile pattern in the valley below the lake in the BW photo.  Obviously, bad dam construction or they left an existing lake in.  Also note that due to modern irrigation (and probably a perpetually wet fw) later gca's decided to add to the lake surface for irrigation storage and drainage.

It appears the west nine (if the photo is oriented NS) was either under construction or abandoned in the 39 aerial, which would be interesting to know.

Lastly, in comparing the photo to the routing, its clear that many bunkers were changed in the field.  Some were split into two, and almost all have a smaller scale than depicted on the LM routing plan, where they are not depicted as narrow "reef" bunkers at all.  Others were moved around.

I notice that every single boundary hole slices OB. I wonder if LM were tweaking McDonald, or just using the land.  And I wonder if they knew TLBO would put houses adjacent so tightly, if they (or any subsequent gca) would have been tempted to route the other direction!

Just a lesson in using aerial photos over plans if you are restoring courses.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 12:18:02 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2006, 12:25:50 PM »
I also notice that the holes in the SW corner needed to be tightened up to get the new parking lot in.  I guess they were no longer using the "caddy yard" shown on plan and in the '39 aerial!

Last question - the site was treeless and the LM routing shows scattered trees.  Of course, all fw are nearly tree lined now.  Just how much thought do you think LM put into those trees on the rendering?  

Did the want scattered clumps?

Did they show what they thought could be planted in the original budget?

Or did they just assume trees would be planted and arrange them to look good on the rendering?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2006, 12:46:31 PM »
Shiv,

I played Little League and later ran high school cross country there at Pioneer Park. Sounds like you were close enough to the Catholic shool to hear the nuns whacking the kids!  Ironically, the parking area at the top of the park saw more parking in the night than the day, and so your neck of the woods was known for, well, necking :) and might actually have been more of the "action heights" than you give it credit for!

Our house was in Scarsdale Subdivision at the corner of Park St and Lincoln, about as far east of AH road as the park is west.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 02:59:37 PM »
I had only a brother, Shiv, four years older than me....

I was a south guy, never went to the catholic schools, as I was a Lutheran.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: Westmoor CC (routing and present day aerial added)
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2006, 07:33:37 PM »
Jeff, Thanks for the lessons.

One of the aspects that made me doubt the Langford guess was the size of the bunkers.

You boys grew up in what we called the boondocks. Far out!
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back