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Golf Course Architecture / Re: Has Oakmont Tree Removal Begun a Good or Bad Trend?

« Last post by Sean_A on April 16, 2024, 01:51:11 AM »

Sean: The question is whether Oakmont is really the ideal solution and I it certainly is not in all situations and perhaps it has made other clubs fearful that if they begin tree removal that it will have to result in the Oakmont model.

I am sure there are irrational members at every club who fear a bald course if a proper tree management program is implemented.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a blanket ideal tree solution. I wouldn’t like to see any parkland go the extreme route Oakmont took. Well selected, placed and managed trees can add beauty, challenge, intended visual blocks and shade.

Ciao

92

Golf Course Architecture / Re: "I don’t need to try and be better than I am.” Max Homa

« Last post by Mike_Clayton on April 16, 2024, 01:28:18 AM »

I knew what I could do and what I couldn't do. I almost never hit a show with less than 80% probability that a could pull it off.

I couldn't hit a fade.

In my one round playing with Jack Nicklaus at Sebonack, he referred to his approach on 13 as "an 80% shot" and I asked him what % he needed to go for it in his prime. 





He looked at me like I had a screw loose and responded, "100%.  You are not going to hit a good shot 100% of the time, but if you are not 100% sure a good shot will get you there, then you would be crazy to go for it."

Funny - I remember once talking to Pete Coleman who caddied for Langer in 1985 (and 1993). He was way back on Saturday playing the 13th and decided he had to go for it.
He thinned a 3 wood which Coleman said was always going in the creek. It landed short, skipped over and onto the green and he made a long putt for an eagle.
After that he would go for any marginal shot over water "Even if it was only 40/60 to get over. His short game was mustard so he always had a good shot at making par anyway"
Of 1993 they were standing in the 15th fairway when Chip Beck was laying up.
"Look" he said to Langer - "he's not even trying to beat us."

93

Golf Course Architecture / Re: WayOT. Why have dues at Augusta National?

« Last post by Pierre Cruikshank on April 16, 2024, 12:26:04 AM »

The lodging, food, green fees and especially the wine must run close to $10 million in revenue if not more.  They have Petrus in the the cellar for $35,000 and hundreds of cases of Screaming Eagle for $2,000 per bottle.

But wouldn't they charge a low profit margin on that sort of stuff, like F&B at the Masters?  I wouldn't expect them to be gouging their members on accommodations and F&B if they have trouble spending money.  So they will get revenue from that but not much profit margin since the COGS will be pretty high.

Wayne,
     The National doesn't charge much for accommodations (rooms & cabins) and F&B. The margins are extremely low; lower than most destination clubs.  The menu is simple, basically meats & veggies, nothing exotic. The Masters Tournament basically pays for the operations, renovations, & maintenance.


The National is close during the summers (May - Oct), marked by the Closing Party, usually the 3rd week of May. The summer is when all of the renovations are performed.

94

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Pasatiempo

« Last post by Pete_Pittock on April 15, 2024, 11:01:08 PM »

Wow.
Green and white, thought I was watching an extended version of The Masters.  Should re-name as Pasatiempo National.
Hope they have enough money to maintain. Hard to believe they went with bent greens where poa annua is prevalent and likely will overrun what was just planted.


Realize that it is folly to "rate" a golf course from aerials and photography.  Studied response will have to wait for a year or more until the other nine is completed and someone who has played before and after chimes in.

P.S. Mackenzie's ashes were spread over the golf course. I hope he is not disturbed.

95

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Master's Yesterday: Saturday

« Last post by Joe_Tucholski on April 15, 2024, 10:41:24 PM »

I don't disagree. #15 & #17 were poster-children for well struck short irons from the fairway not holding the green;

I sat in the grandstands at 15/16 for the day on Saturday.  With the pin on the left side in a very narrow area I was amazed that everyone hit their second to the left side of the fairway meaning they had just a few yards to land their approach that was less than a full shot with a lot of spin.  Players coming in from the left side of the fairway needed to land it past the hole to ensure they didn't spin it back into the water but then a number of people tried to hit the two bounce and spin back but didn't get the spin back because the ball ended up going long.  Brooks Koepka is one of the only players I recall playing to the right side of the fairway which allowed him to use a lot of green and not worry about spinning it back into the water and he did well making birdie.

96

Golf Course Architecture / Re: What happened to TIger's game after the cut?

« Last post by David_Tepper on April 15, 2024, 09:45:48 PM »

The Open courses usually do not have the thick, dark-green, juicy rough that is often found on US Open and PGA Championship courses. Playing out of the rough on links courses is usually not as physically taxing, which would help Tiger over 4 rounds. 

97

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Stanley Thompson - greens

« Last post by Wayne_Kozun on April 15, 2024, 09:42:47 PM »

@Jeff - How long will it be before the poa starts to encroach on the bent and become a significant portion of the greens?  I was thinking about this today as it was 10 years ago that many clubs got decimated in the Toronto area due to ice during the winter.  That took care of a lot of the poa at the time, but I presume that over the years it will grow back.

98

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Walking Only Municipal Courses

« Last post by Joe_Tucholski on April 15, 2024, 09:42:45 PM »

There are a pair of Los Angles city muni executive courses, in Roosevelt and Penmar, that I'm pretty sure used to be walking only (can't recall seeing a cart).

99

Golf Course Architecture / Re: WayOT. Why have dues at Augusta National?

« Last post by Wayne_Kozun on April 15, 2024, 09:37:10 PM »

The lodging, food, green fees and especially the wine must run close to $10 million in revenue if not more.  They have Petrus in the the cellar for $35,000 and hundreds of cases of Screaming Eagle for $2,000 per bottle.

But wouldn't they charge a low profit margin on that sort of stuff, like F&B at the Masters?  I wouldn't expect them to be gouging their members on accommodations and F&B if they have trouble spending money.  So they will get revenue from that but not much profit margin since the COGS will be pretty high.

100

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Martin Downs Golf Club (FL)

« Last post by Stewart Abramson on April 15, 2024, 09:29:54 PM »

From their website :[size=1.5rem

]FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS


How many courses does MDCC have?

MDCC is the home of Osprey Creek, a former PGA championship courses designed by legendary Treasure Coast Golf Architect Charles Ankrom.

 Can I walk the courses?

We do not allow walking on the course, as the distance between holes can be quite far.