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91
Nick,
One thing that the club may be thinking is acquiring new land.   I don't know the boundaries of the present property but I just looked at an aerial and it seems land is available going towards Academy Road in the northwest quadrant, and there may be more due north nearer the clubhouse.   

Indeed, one of the limitations of the current course is that it's on pretty tight property.   Originally, the Ross 17th and 18th holes were quite different, both being long par fours (as memory serves), but in the 1960s (I believe) Grant Avenue was expanded and the club lost some land along that side, leaving the par three and shortish par four finishing holes done by William & David Gordon.
At that time they also extended the par five 13th and created a new green.   I believe most of the rest of the course is relatively intact Donald Ross, albeit a little tightly constricted in spots.


I looked up the property at work and found the land you are talking about is owned by the neighboring church. I assumed a long term lease or purchase deal is possible, and the announcement of Rees Jones and a Redesign had me interested. I was hoping someone here had some plans or further information confirming any of this be true. I know there is a ton of biased regarding Rees Jones and obvious judgement but figured maybe people were past all that. Personally I think a lot of his changes in the 90s were decisions of the clubs he worked for in order to accommodate high US Open scores. It's really not fair to blame the guy who actually does the work. In construction design flaws happen all the time, and like golf course architecture the builder is always blamed. The other side of the story is never told which is usually the builders side who did what his client told him to.
92
Golf Course Architecture / Do long hitters have too much of an advantage?
« Last post by Eric LeFante on Yesterday at 11:42:07 AM »
A cornerstone to GCA is risk vs reward. The 8th hole at Shinnecock is a good example; itís about 290 yards to carry the bunkers on the left from the back tee. If a player is able to do this, he will be rewarded with a wedge approach AND a better angle to approach the green vs the right side of the fairway.

http://www.usopen.com/course/8.html

Think about how Brooks Koepka and Ian Poulter played this hole; Koepka hit driver down the left and Poulter had to go down the right side of the fairway because he couldn't carry the left bunkers.

Did either player really have a decision to make on the tee? Koepka can carry the left bunkers, wants a wedge approach shot, and wants the best angle to get his second shot close. Poulter cannot carry the left bunkers so he needs to go down the right side of the fairway.

The architect canít change the fact that Koepka can outdrive Poulter by 30+ yards, but should the architect also give Koepka the better angle?

What if the better angle was from the right side of the fairway? Now Koepka has a decision to make; lay up down the right, have a longer shot into the green but a better angle, or hit driver down the left, have a wedge in, but have the less desirable angle.

Long hitters can have a shorter approach shot on most par 4s and par 5s; isnít that enough of an advantage? Should architects give them a better angle as well?
93
Nick,
One thing that the club may be thinking is acquiring new land.   I don't know the boundaries of the present property but I just looked at an aerial and it seems land is available going towards Academy Road in the northwest quadrant, and there may be more due north nearer the clubhouse.   

Indeed, one of the limitations of the current course is that it's on pretty tight property.   Originally, the Ross 17th and 18th holes were quite different, both being long par fours (as memory serves), but in the 1960s (I believe) Grant Avenue was expanded and the club lost some land along that side, leaving the par three and shortish par four finishing holes done by William & David Gordon.
At that time they also extended the par five 13th and created a new green.   I believe most of the rest of the course is relatively intact Donald Ross, albeit a little tightly constricted in spots.


8 and 9 were changed due to a routing quirk. I believe the original 8th green had the creek behind it and not in front and then the 9th played back away from the clubhouse, but I could have it backwards. Either way, it was clear that the 8th the water hazard behind was rather novel.
94
14.2 for me Pat. Thanks!
95
Golf Course Architecture / Re: Westward Ho! RND proposed course changes
« Last post by Niall C on Yesterday at 10:52:58 AM »
Excellent. One more and we have a fourball !!

Niall
96
Golf Course Architecture / Re: Union League Torresdale Redesign - Rees Jones?
« Last post by MCirba on Yesterday at 10:42:09 AM »
Nick,

One thing that the club may be thinking is acquiring new land.   I don't know the boundaries of the present property but I just looked at an aerial and it seems land is available going towards Academy Road in the northwest quadrant, and there may be more due north nearer the clubhouse.   

Indeed, one of the limitations of the current course is that it's on pretty tight property.   Originally, the Ross 17th and 18th holes were quite different, both being long par fours (as memory serves), but in the 1960s (I believe) Grant Avenue was expanded and the club lost some land along that side, leaving the par three and shortish par four finishing holes done by William & David Gordon.

At that time they also extended the par five 13th and created a new green.   I believe most of the rest of the course is relatively intact Donald Ross, albeit a little tightly constricted in spots.   
97



Nick


Rather than get caught up in semantics, or mission statements, or even Rees pompous and entitled attitude why don't we measure the man by his work on courses he did not design.


Which is his best? 


I know more than a few and would politely say disappointing at best. 


What classic era course made a good decision to hire Rees rather than others?   
98
Here is what I have so far for everyone's handicap indexes. If you don't see a # below your name, please let me know what you are playing to. Or if I have an incorrect # please let me know. Thanks.


Ran Morrissett
Pat Craig
3.1[/t][/t] 
Vaughn Halyard
13.2[/t] 
Shane Wright
1.3[/t] 
Dan Kelly
6.3[/t] 
Criss Titschinger
17.6[/t] 
Ted Sturges
  [/t] 
Tyler Kearns
  [/t] 
Frank Sekulic
7.5[/t] 
Derek Holland
14.1[/t] 
Jeff Shelman
6.2[/t] 
Brandon Urban
10.3[/t] 
Jason Thompson
9.1[/t] 
Pete Pittock
18.1[/t] 
Frank Kim
  [/t] 
Chris Tritabaugh
12.8[/t] 
John Crowley
11[/t] 
Joe Lynch
18.4[/t] 
Bill Morrissett
1.1[/t] 
Morgan Clawson
16.4[/t] 
Doug Siebert
  [/t] 
Bill Steele
16.7[/t] 
Rick Shefchik
6.1[/t] 
Jake Marvin
5.5[/t] 
Steve Kline
14[/t] 
Lou Duran
3.8[/t] 
Ross Harmon
9.3[/t] 
Jason Thurman
9.7[/t] 
Scott Skorupa
8.5[/t] 
Jay Mickle
15[/t] 
Tom Atchison
3[/t] 
Joe Andriole
  [/t] 
Matt Bosela
4.8[/t] 
Steve Greif
  [/t] 
Dave Herrick
16.6[/t] 
Zack Molnar
  [/t]
99
My concern is that the club may have hired him for his name and expect a restoration.


Mike,


The GM of Union League is highly regarded as possibly the best GM in the country? From a financial standpoint its amazing what he has done for that club. I assume the board at the UL he deals with is part of the clubs success. Rees announced on his website he was specifically hired for redesign. I have a very hard time believing a GM of Mr McFaddens caliber and the board members of the Union League don't know the difference between a restoration and redesign.


A GM's bailiwick is on the business end. As long as the project remains on budget for what the membership are willing to pay, the GM will likely have very little to say about the matter one way or the other. In the end does it really matter what we think? It's his membership and his bill to pay.

Kyle I have met him, he is one smart cookie with great business and people skills. My bet is he is knee deep in what's going on there. His ideas on customer service are outstanding, he is not going to allow any pooch screwing.
100
A modern course unique to Philadelphia Golf?


There's a Rees Jones course within 30 miles, Lookaway, and another Hurdzan/Fry just about same distance - along with the Militia Hill Course at Philly Cricket. Not to mention other courses by Ault/Clark, Bobby Weed, Gil Hanse, Tom Fazio, and Tom Doak all within the district.


I'll be saddened if they go the route of a completely new golf course. This was the site of my first "away" match in High School and also my first Donald Ross course. I understand the business appeal to it since they can bid out all the work to various contractors but.... well.



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