41

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by A.G._Crockett on Today at 08:14:44 AM »

Start beginning golfers who are playing say a par 70-72 golf course for the first or second time 25 yards in front of every green.  When they can shoot 36 or better for nine holes, move them back to 50 yards from each green and continue the process. 


This not only teaches players to get the ball in the hole but is much more fun and less intimidating as they begin to learn to play on a full scale golf course. 


Of course 25 yards to start is arbitrary but you get the point. 


My home club has implemented this practice in their beginner golf program.


Note:  In all honesty, all of us, regardless of ability, could have fun with this.  I wonder how many of us could shoot under 22 or 23 from 25 yards out for nine holes.  What a great way to challenge yourself or get a few wagers going during an off peak time at your club.

Mark,


It’s a great idea; don’t be bothered by the Grumpy Old Men Syndrome that infects this board.


One of the changes that went into effect earlier this year is that short courses can now be rated and scores posted.  My club has just finished laying out a short course utilizing range mats on all the par 4’s and 5’s to create a full 18 hole par 3 course.  Most of the holes are under 100 yds.  The mats are outside the rough near the tree lines, and very much out of normal play, and will be pretty close to zero maintenance. 


It’s a very cool idea; our superintendent came up with it, and the rest of the golf staff quickly jumped on board and made it happen.  I have no idea how much play it will get, or who will be playing it, but it’s an attempt to find ways to engage more people, especially kids, in spending more time on the course. 


I can’t think of a downside to that.

42

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by Joe Hancock on Today at 08:11:30 AM »

Where I learned the game, which was a mom-and-pop 18 hole course, we played in a couples league with new golfers, male and female. Sometimes it would take 8-10 shots for the beginning golfer to reach a green. Our commitment to the game was to encourage those players to keep trying, keep moving and have fun. I sometimes wasn’t thrilled with those long rounds, but that was part of the deal.


That course survived on golf leagues. It’s where people learned the game, played the game, and had fun together. It involved walkers, riders and pull carts…..men, women, seniors, etc. It took a little longer, but there were a lot of golfers willing to sacrifice some time and energy to grow the game, likely without knowing or expecting to be compensated for it.

43

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by Mark_Fine on Today at 07:42:29 AM »

Matt,
Many times a couple joins a private club because one of the two play golf avidly and then the other partner decides they want to learn to play the game as well


This happens all the time!  Also kids of members get into the game and need to learn or members who joined for the social aspect or for the tennis,.. decide they want to learn to play golf as well. 


Do you think they should all go play elsewhere rather than learn at their own club?

44

Golf Course Architecture / Re: From what ”starting point” should you judge a golf hole?

« Last post by Mark_Fine on Today at 07:36:48 AM »

Lots of great comments by everyone, thank you. 


What I was really getting at, however, is this - do you have to judge or should you judge the quality of a course/golf holes from essentially just one set of tees participating the set on a score card?  If for example you think a particular par three hole is phenomenal for all levels of players from the 140 yard tee box but not so great from the 230 yard tee that maybe some golf committee had added, how would you judge it? 


I think this topic is important as it very much impacts all the various lists out there. 


Let me throw out a few more thoughts; we all like variety and temptation and risk/reward.  If there are four par fives on a course and they are all say 580 yards or so from the tips or even from the “main” tee boxes but several of them would and are exceptional risk/reward par fives if played from shorter tee boxes, how would you judge them?  Would you judge this set of holes as simply a set of long three shot par fives or judge them as a great set of mixed variety fives with a wide range of shot options and risk/reward temptation? 


If a course is “missing” based on card yardage from the back or even middle tees, a “drivable” par four that you would enjoy seeing and playing but for example you realize hole #7 would be a great drivable par four if played from a more forward existing tee, is it ok to judge it from there and say the course has an amazing short risk/reward par four?


I hope you see what I am getting at.  Those kind of short or long or risk/reward type of holes might exist on the course if played from various tees but if we are forced to judge a course from one set say the black 7300 yard markers or the blue 6500 makers,…, is that fair to the course and to the architect/s who designed it?

45

Golf Course Architecture / Re: From what ”starting point” should you judge a golf hole?

« Last post by Paul Rudovsky on Today at 04:34:46 AM »

Walking golf holes backwards is also an outstanding way to decide strategic options for playing holes (forwards).

46

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Cabot Citrus

« Last post by Paul Rudovsky on Today at 04:28:11 AM »

Played Karoo, Squeeze, and Wedge earlier this week.  Had seen this thread before i got there and had similar impressions from other photos, but must say that biggest take away from my round was that the bunkering was not over done.  It of used to frame fairways which are quite generous. 


Greens are pretty wild but very putt-able and fair (so long as the grounds crew member who cuts the holes has not had too much to drink the night before).  Pines can be set is some really tough tough positions, but think that will be very rare.


Course was incredibly firm and fast, and that took some getting used to but I love that. 


Highly recommend it for a visit.  Did not have a chance to look at Roost which will not open for several months.

47

Golf Course Architecture / Re: New Chicago Golf Club History - The Prairie Raynor

« Last post by Tim_Cronin on Today at 12:22:33 AM »

My copy arrived on Monday. Had I binged, I probably would have finished it by now. But one has to work, and selfishly, I want the first perusal to last forever. It's an 11 on a 1-to-10 scale. As I noted to John, I can't remember seeing an elevation heat map of a golf course before. Or similar maps of each green as in a green-reading book. This book as it all. All should grab one while they can.

48

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by Matt Schoolfield on Yesterday at 11:32:19 PM »

Mark, I still feel like I've quite confused. I really agree with everything you're saying except on how it fits with new players:

Golfers at most private clubs pay the same price to play whether they use the practice facilities or the main golf course.  For example at my club if you are a golfer you pay a monthly fee and can play as little or as often as you want for the same price (caddies and cart fees are extra).  If you carry your own bag it costs nothing extra.   And you can tee it up from any set of tees you like 

I guess I just cannot imagine a scenario where a person decides they want to learn to play golf, and the first thing they do is... join a private club? I mean... I think this might be an effective strategy for immediate family members of certified golf sickos, and maybe the uber wealthy, but it seems like a exceedingly odd way of learning golf for a normal person curious about golf. I feel like I'm really missing something here. Beyond that, I fully agree that it's probably a good way to learn!

49

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by Mark_Fine on Yesterday at 10:37:59 PM »

Couple of thoughts, would most of you prefer to follow a foursome of new golfers playing from the regular tees and each taking seven or eight shots or more to play each hole or having that same group walk or drive their cart up to the 25 yard or 50 yard,… starting point for each hole and playing from there.  What do you think is going to be a better pace of play for all?


Golfers at most private clubs pay the same price to play whether they use the practice facilities or the main golf course.  For example at my club if you are a golfer you pay a monthly fee and can play as little or as often as you want for the same price (caddies and cart fees are extra).  If you carry your own bag it costs nothing extra.   And you can tee it up from any set of tees you like 


This concept is to get beginner golfers out on the actual golf course and get them slowly acclimated to playing on the real course.   As they graduate to the longer tees, they gain confidence and everything else that goes with playing golf with friends on the course. 


Let’s not forget, most of these players are trying to get around nine holes from these shorter tees in 36 shots so they can graduate to playing from a longer set of tees.  This is the same amount of shots many of us take from playing the tips. And for many of these players this is way more than chip and putt.  As I said before, many will be hitting woods when they get to the 75 yard tees and even at the 50 yard starting point many are hitting full iron shots to reach the green.  If they can average 4 shots on each hole they can quickly graduate and be on the regular tees in no time at all.  If not, then they (and everyone else playing behind them) are better off with these players playing from the shorter yardages.  Pace of play improves for all and everyone has more fun. What is wrong with that? 
Remember if they hit each green from their starting point of 25 or 50 yards and three putt each one they will hit their scoring target to graduate.  How hard can that be 😉



This is all voluntary and golfers that are doing this love it (even if some here don’t).  What a concept - everyone wins.  If a golfer wants to drop out they drop out.  They can then go back to the practice range, just play from now on from the regular tees and hold up play    or give up the game altogether.  Let’s hope they keep trying and keep graduating to the longer tees. 

50

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Every club should do this!

« Last post by jeffwarne on Yesterday at 10:06:15 PM »

I can't imagine my buddy and I were the only ones using the practice area for competitive chipping and putting games.

More times than I can count we'd spend hours coming up with all kinds of angles, lies, shots, etc instead of going out on the course.  And if we wanted to practice 40-80 yard shots we'd hit the range and have similar competitions.

Exactly.
I can't imagine paying a green fee to walk 350-500 yards between 25 yard holes-at any age, much less as a time constrained adult.
Golf CAN be learned on the course in a very controlled environment, and hitting a modern driver is quite easy these days for a beginner, and should not be left out of the learning/play process while you spend weeks/months getting to your mythical score of 36.
What is you never reach that score?
25 yard holes for life? ugh.
One size simply doesn't fit all.