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Hi Erik,

Perhaps it might be enlightening to start a list of the courses that have had to be lengthened since the ProV1 arrived because you'd agree that if they have been lengthened then it was because they sought to remain relevant and that distance was the issue they were combating.  I'm guessing but it would likely be a list of most of the courses the Tour visits regularly.  As Mark pointed out, the Old Course now uses teeing grounds on other courses in order to remain relevant.  If they played Augusta as it was in 1986 today it would be a pitch and putt.  Sadly not every club can go and buy up the land around it as ANGC has to stop it being added to your first list. 

I suppose the only answer to the distance issue is to ban Trackman, prevent players from using the gym and have McDonalds provide all the meals.  That way we'd see the driving average plummet back to around 275yds because it obviously isn't the ball or the clubs.
Golf Course Architecture / Re: WESTWARD HO!: 2018-19 Winter Tour 1-3
« Last post by Sean_A on Today at 05:43:20 AM »
Looking forward to this, Sean.
I agree that the best of the course is bookended by lesser holes, but still enjoyed those. The first is reachable, but a layup is complicated by the diagonal hazard and the lack of definition.


Yes, the opener is complicated by the water at an excellent distance shy of the green.  The second is probably the least engaging on the course.

Westward Ho! Tour Cont.

The 4th, or Cape, so named for the hulking sleepered bunker, looks as if it has been there since time immemorial.  However, the Cape Bunker was moved 40 yards right as it seems the entire course will eventually!

Cape looks more formidable from fairway level.

There is much hoopla concerning Cape, but the second shot is where Westward Ho! begins to delight.

The excellent short 5th turns against the flow of the front nine and requires a fairly precise aerial shot.  Certainly a candidate for the favourite hole of many, the 6th is a wild landscape of boundless width and beauty.  This is the only hole where the Bideford Bay is on display.  Though I suspect views will be available from the new 8th and new 9th tee.

It seems a pity to disturb the exquisite landscape with features such as bunkers. 

The great and ill defined golf continues on the 7th.  A right bunker can be seen, but another down the left on the short-cut to the green is blind.  The sea rushes make a quick appearance, as if to foreshadow what is to come.   Being common land, the parishioners of Northam have the right to graze their sheep and horses on the land.  In recent years an agreement has been reached which limits the number of grazing sheep and horses.

There is a blind bunker for those who wind up in the rushes after a loose drive.

At this point we are hard on the pebble ridge and can see the damage of winter storms to the 8th is practically disappeared.  In days gone by there was a group of housholder parshioners known as potwallopers.  The test of a householder was having a separate fireplace for cooking.  Poywallopers had the right to graze their animals on the common in exchange for throwing pebbles washed up to the burrows from high tides and winter storms back onto the ridge.  Not long after 1900 the practice became sporadic before it was eventually banned by Natural England in 2008.

More to follow.

Golf Course Architecture / King Island March 2019
« Last post by Sean Walsh on Today at 04:24:44 AM »
Iím heading to King Island on the 6th of March. Iíll be playing golf on 6th, 7th and 8th.

Drop me a line if youíre interested in joining me.

Iíll be booking the golf in the next week.
Inverness just de-Fazio'd itself and went up to about 7700 yards so I'm guessing it's back in the game now.

How would you phrase the question? The PGA Tour (or the players in majors) still plays at Riviera, the Old Course, Carnoustie, etc., of course, soÖ what's your version of the question? What's your list of great courses that are no longer great or no longer played by the game's best because they hit the ball too far?
It's difficult to get a handle on what you believe, Erik.

It appears to be that you think the distance issue, such as it is, is due to natural progress, better coaching and better fitness, and not necessarily technology.  Is that the case? (And that the effects of the increase in distance are exaggerated, but that's a different argument).

All of those courses I listed have been significantly altered to allow for the distance modern players hit the ball. If they weren't altered, or otherwise tricked up, would they still host PGA/European tour events?  Jason touches on some of them above.

The Old Course, for instance, is now played from three separate courses for The Open.

Ernie Els almost shot 60 at RM a few years ago.  In one of the books about the club, an Argentinian player from long ago is mentioned as being a colossal hitter who drove the 1st East green and hit the 17th East with a 7-iron second.  These days, such feats are commonplace.
Golf Course Architecture / Re: The Quest Completed-World Top 100
« Last post by Bill Schulz on Today at 12:42:45 AM »

jimmy, schulzie is not a big fan of tunnels (other than michael connelly's masterful narrows) & **** like that but did take a peek inside but he's no harry bosch

super looper john told me that the pronghorn construction manager set up his office for 2 years in the heart of darkness, that's not my deal

sunshine=nature's spiritual energy# ;D ;D ;D
Golf Course Architecture / Re: In praise of Sand Valley!
« Last post by JC Jones on Today at 12:38:33 AM »
Solid report Paul.  I had a splash and go at SV last month and came away thrilled with the place. 

I live far enough away that the logistics are only 4-5 hours shorter than going to Bandon so Iíve not yet decided if there was enough to persuade me to foresake a trip to Bandon in the future. But, what an addition to an already spoiled region.  We usually do quick trips each year to Pinehurst and Kiawah; I can see Sand Valley serving the same purpose for people in Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis.

Golf Course Architecture / Re: Today at Dormie Club
« Last post by JC Jones on Today at 12:29:31 AM »
Dormie Club purchased a ďcover wrapĒ of the last issue of GolfWeek magazine. Thatís a very over-the-top ad buy (at least the Southeast distribution).

Iíd say they are serious about trying to reach critical mass with their membership model.

Iím curious to see how this goes.  Dormie always had potential despite the shortcomings of the middle of the course.  I understand the new ownership group to be quite good and all reports are they are making Ballyhack even better (something which I had not thought possible).
Golf Course Architecture / Re: Mulligan Course update
« Last post by JC Jones on Today at 12:25:35 AM »
JC Jones: Forum Police.

Give it a rest, champ. Youíre becoming a hell of a common denominator in most of the negative that goes on at this website lately.

The DG has obviously become tiresome to you. When that happens to most others they just take a break for a while. Maybe give it a shot.

The rich irony of Scott Warren calling someone else forum police.


Itís unsurprising that youíve responded not by defending your own behaviour, but by attacking someone elseís.

Some of us on this site havenít always posted in a way we can be proud of, but the option is always available to you to change.

Have a read back over your recent posts. Is that really the best use of your time, energy and emotion?

Iím happy to continue this via PMs if you feel thereís value in a further discussion.

At least youíre finally admitting your past behavior here was not something to be proud of.

So, please direct your forum policing and your sad attempt at paternal tone elsewhere.  The schtick is quite tired, and long deserving of some pine.
Golf Course Architecture / Re: New/Old Drivers and New/Old Balls
« Last post by David_Tepper on Today at 12:13:01 AM »
Lou D. -

You are welcome to rationalize people's poor investment choices and decisions in any way you see fit.

As a baby boomer who has worked in the investment business for 39 years, I thank my lucky stars I have lived through this lengthy period of extraordinary returns of financial assets.

In addition, there has never been a period where so much investment advice and information (much of it free, some of it worthwhile and some of it useless) is so readily available. There has also never been a period when the cost and expenses of investing has ever been so low.


P.S. I would be happy to see the pro tour adopt a reduced flight ball. ;)   
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