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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Matthew Essig on July 08, 2017, 05:11:29 AM

Title: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Matthew Essig on July 08, 2017, 05:11:29 AM
https://www.linksmagazine.com/us-open-return-chambers-bay/?utm_source=Email_marketing&utm_campaign=Friday_June_30_2017_-_1&cmp=1&utm_medium=HTMLEmail (https://www.linksmagazine.com/us-open-return-chambers-bay/?utm_source=Email_marketing&utm_campaign=Friday_June_30_2017_-_1&cmp=1&utm_medium=HTMLEmail)


Trimming The Fluff Version:

-Significant additions include the 190-room hotel and villas, 5,000-square-foot event space, 200-seat Tom Douglas restaurant, and 4,000-square-foot clubhouse to be built around the site of the current clubhouse.
-But what use will a hotel be if the greens remain bumpy, and the viewing areas limited? “There are no worries about the spectator experience,” says Ladenburg who remains a central figure in the evolution of Chambers Bay. “At a post-championship USGA event, I had a conversation with an official who had been involved in roping the course. He told me he was already thinking about what they would need to do for next time.”

-As for the course, Director of Agronomy Eric Johnson says it is all in hand. “Over time, perennial-type annual bluegrass (commonly known as poa annua var. reptans) will become dominant on the greens.” Since June 2015, Johnson has increased cultural inputs (mowing, rolling, fertilizer, pesticide, water) to favor annual bluegrass establishment, and is seeding the greens with the only commercially available annual bluegrass turf—Poa reptans Two-Putt. “The good news,” he says, “is that it establishes pretty well. The bad news is that its prolific seedhead production in the first year or so gives the greens that blotchy appearance.”

-Then, of course, there’s the money. The 2015 U.S. Open had a $134 million impact on the local economy, and the USGA did rather well out of it too. According to its Annual Report, USGA revenue from its Open championships (U.S. Open, U.S. Senior Open, U.S. Women’s Open) in 2016, when the U.S. Open was played at Oakmont, was $53.3m. In 2015, it was $64.3m.  “The USGA needs to make money on the U.S. Open,” says Ladenburg. “And it made a lot at Chambers Bay.”

A photo of the 10th green is shown in the article that exhibits the progress of the poa annua grassing.They hope to have the greens in top poa annua shape for the U.S. Four Ball in 2019.
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Tom_Doak on July 08, 2017, 09:12:44 AM

Trimming The Fluff Follow The MoneyVersion:



see above
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Tom Bacsanyi on July 08, 2017, 12:41:59 PM
The takeaway for me is that fine fescue greens have failed in the US (apart from Bandon, and I am sure that most of those greens are >50% poa at this point).  I wish it weren't so, as a pure fine fescue green is a phenomenal putting surface, and the input reduction is significant.  The problem is they don't seem to form an acceptable polystand with poa annua here in the US, and thus become mottled and bumpy in middle age.  Chambers probably should have gone with bent to begin with, which would have allowed for a much smoother transition to the inevitable poa infestation.
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: jeffwarne on July 08, 2017, 04:23:09 PM
I know it's been beaten to death, but tell me again the advantages of a fescue green?


The disadvantages are quite clear.....
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Tom_Doak on July 08, 2017, 04:26:51 PM
There are two advantages of a fescue green.


1)  You can keep them in the same condition as fescue fairways ... not soggier or firmer or faster or slower, but a consistent playing surface from approach to green.


2)  You don't have to use the same chemicals to keep them healthy.  I believe this is about to become readily apparent all across the European Union.


What's the disadvantage?  That it transitions to Poa annua in many circumstances?  How is that different than a bentgrass green?  What are the greens at The Bridge today, bent or poa annua?
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Ryan Farrow on July 08, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
Unfortunately the Pac NW is ideal growing for Poa. We are experimenting with a fescue green at Sand Valley in central wisconsin where Poa is less of an issue. Promising results thus far.
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: jeffwarne on July 08, 2017, 10:02:02 PM
There are two advantages of a fescue green.


1)  You can keep them in the same condition as fescue fairways ... not soggier or firmer or faster or slower, but a consistent playing surface from approach to green.


2)  You don't have to use the same chemicals to keep them healthy.  I believe this is about to become readily apparent all across the European Union.


What's the disadvantage?  That it transitions to Poa annua in many circumstances?  How is that different than a bentgrass green?  What are the greens at The Bridge today, bent or poa annua?


The greens at The Bridge are pure bent here in year 16.
I'm not advocating any grasses and I surely understand there are $$ issues associated with keeping pure bent pure


I recently played a highly regarded course that's a few years old with pure fescue and they were the least true greens I've played in years. They were the same last time I was there.
The only other experience I have with fescue is Chambers Bay and they looked a hot mess.
I play slow greens(as slow as 4-5) all the time and I am not picky at all about speed-in fact I enjoy the challenge of sloped slower greens.


The greens in The UK/ireland are NOTHING like the very limited experience I've had with fescue greens here, and I very rarely see poor greens over there.
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: Greg Chambers on July 08, 2017, 10:24:34 PM
Jeff,


The sub-standard conditions you face w fescue greens here in the US could be simply down to the rarity of them.  In the superintendent community, a lot of success comes from ideas and strategies developed amongst peers.  Well, when you're managing fescue greens here...you're pretty much on an island.  Not a lot of peers to bounce ideas off.  If the grass becomes more prolific, which I think it should...that is likely to change.


My $0.02
Title: Re: Links Magazine: Steps Chambers Bay is taking for more big events
Post by: HRiefs on December 06, 2017, 10:30:56 AM

Bandon Dunes replaces Chambers Bay, for 2019 USGA Four-Ball championship to accommodate greens turfgrass project (fescue to poa). Chambers to instead host 2021 event instead.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/12/5/bandon-takes-four-ball-while-chambers-bay-re-grows-in.html (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/12/5/bandon-takes-four-ball-while-chambers-bay-re-grows-in.html)