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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on January 26, 2017, 07:54:23 AM

Title: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on January 26, 2017, 07:54:23 AM
With its heavy cape of industry it may sound unlikely to many people, but Seaton Carew is first and foremost a resort. The founding of Durham and Yorkshire GC in 1874 is a direct result of the tourism which was dependant on the limitless beach.  Like many Victorian seaside resorts, Seaton Carew has seen better days, however, the course remains!  When founded it was the first golf club in Durham and Yorkshire, hence the sweeping title.  While an 18 hole course existed long before Dr Mackenzie came on the scene in 1925, it is the work of the famous architect which endures. 

Unusually, the course has 22 holes for in the mid 70s Frank Pennink designed four extra holes because the land was there!  The result is the club has five routings with the New Couse being the most recent addition.  At least four of the layouts are measured and rated for competitive play.  It is the Brabazon Course on which the big events are played and indeed the Brabazon was staged at Seaton Carew in 1985 and 2014.  I believe the main course remains the Old Course which is Mackenzie’s layout. For whatever reason, the day we turned up the Bishop Course was in play. Three of the four Pennink holes are in play on this card, 12-14.  I believe #s 3 and 4 of the Old Course are removed for the Bishop, I don’t know which the third is. 

The opening six holes head straight south along the inward half of the links.  When looking at the pastoral land just off these holes it is easy to tell the difference between it and links for there were quite a few puddles....not so on the links.  Industry is ever-present at Seaton Carew and it is fitting we had a gloomy, cheerless day as its hard to think of this course in beaming sunshine.  It is clear from the outset that well placed bunkers and greensites are the strength of this links.  #1   
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4533/38797006412_5b4284c03f_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4533/38797006412_5b4284c03f_b.jpg)

The second is comfortably the longest hole and at 544 yards it is a proper three-shotter.  Many of the greens are either on plateaux, raised and/or feature false fronts.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38111866944_55605d0eab_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38111866944_55605d0eab_b.jpg)

A large bunker is problematic on the third and yet again the green is very fine.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38797006342_87e94a042f_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38797006342_87e94a042f_b.jpg)

Truth be told, the quality of the putting surfaces (in January!) put many a world famous course to shame.  In the past few years the only course I have seen which can match these are Burnham & Berrow's Channel Course. 
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4577/38797006262_375bacb4ca_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4577/38797006262_375bacb4ca_b.jpg)

Another long hole next.  It is a bit confusing because there is a green out left at par 4 range, but we cruise past it and right.  Mind you, the bunkers for this green are in play for us as well.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4533/38797006222_a83da289a0_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4533/38797006222_a83da289a0_b.jpg)

#5 is somewhat similar to the 1st with two large bunkers on either side of the fairway short of the green. One big difference is this green runs away from play.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38797006052_491b1b2066_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38797006052_491b1b2066_b.jpg)

More to follow

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course 1-5
Post by: Sean_A on January 26, 2017, 07:38:01 PM
Seaton Carew Tour Cont

The 6th takes as as far south as we shall go and unfortunately it isn't quite up to the standard of the previous five.  The 7th turns back and gives us an unusual bunker scheme with two giant sets of foot prints down the left. After a fine drive our very own Giles Payne has a go at the green. 
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4566/38797005962_b470749351_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4566/38797005962_b470749351_b.jpg)

Perhaps the best hole, Lagoon though, is quite odd.  Down the right is a hazard which will often be dry and two bunkers reduce the fairway width to matchstick proportions.  As bad as this sounds, playing left leaves a blind approach to a green tucked under a dune. 
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4531/38111866454_ab7d139604_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4531/38111866454_ab7d139604_b.jpg)

The use of a few dips (one is very large) flowing right from the fairway makes the 9th one of the better driving holes, though at 304 yards there isn't much incentive to attack the drive.  Once in the fairway, the green is an inviting target.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38797005722_51c39ff1d1_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38797005722_51c39ff1d1_b.jpg)

More to follow.

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course 1-9
Post by: Sean_A on January 27, 2017, 05:23:22 AM
Seaton Carew Tour Cont

The flow and rhythm of courses is discussed quite a bit by wingnuts and those who dig into the flotsam and jetsam of design and this is where the Bishop Course goes astray.  We don't get a par 3 until the back nine and what is on offer isn't memorable.  Whats more, there are only two short holes on the course, only God, Elie and TOC can pull this trick off.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38797005232_87195710a4_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4523/38797005232_87195710a4_b.jpg) 

The 11th is a good hole played under the fold of the dune ridge. It is easy to discern which holes move south  8)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4532/38111866214_05fa79f43b_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4532/38111866214_05fa79f43b_b.jpg) 

Now to the three Pennink holes with the 12th being the best of the lot. It is here we see the north-south playing of the course broken by the lone hole playing toward the North Sea.  Humpty bumpty the entire way with deep swales and humps and hollows on the right make for an excellent hole. 
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4586/38111865974_8fc50364b0_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4586/38111865974_8fc50364b0_b.jpg) 

Our sojourn to the sea over, next is a par 5 legging right over buckthorn.  One can play safely left, but if the wind is from the south (left) the carry isn't onerous.   The fourteenth is dead straight to a raised green along the buckthorn to the right; I am not sure why this stuff is here as the marram covered dunes to the right would be a far more welcome sight.  I can't help but think that these three holes don't add enough spice to justify the presence of a mere two par 3s.  Speaking of 3s, we cross over a hole to the 15th; called Cosy Corner, though in the chill of January I thought it anything but.  Heavily fortified by fronting bunkers, there are no prizes for being short.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4562/38797005362_a419d28b04_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4562/38797005362_a419d28b04_b.jpg)

We now make the final turn for home with a good hole shifting left to yet another raised green of the somewhat turtle back type....tough par 4 at 433 yards.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4531/38111865694_19d581f076_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4531/38111865694_19d581f076_b.jpg)

Snag!  Likely the hole most will remember and it is certainly one of Seaton Carew's best.  The fairway moves left, but I am not sure if the golfer doesn't want to hug the left side of the hole, a play which eliminates the dogleg. 
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4561/38111865284_b2e9494810_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4561/38111865284_b2e9494810_b.jpg)

Driving right leaves a dicey angle of approach into this elevated, two-tier and off-set green protected by five bunkers, an approach which offers nothing but bogies.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38111865464_c308959025_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4550/38111865464_c308959025_b.jpg)

The home hole is a bit of a let down with buckthorn and an old sewage treatment plant down the right.  The green though is large and can cause some grief. 

Having long wanted to play Seaton Carew because of the rare Mackenzie links design, I am pleased to write its as good as hoped in a rather no nonsense manner.  I don't think there are any truly exceptional holes on the Bishop, but there are loads of very gooduns.  However, as mentioned previously, the condition of the greens is exceptional and in general the greens carry the design. Seaton Carew is quite isolated in terms of quality courses, but I would like to return some day to play the Old Course.  2017

Previous stops on The Tour:

Luffenham Heath
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63819.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63819.0.html)

Celtic Manor 2010
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63796.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63796.0.html)

Kington
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html) 

Welshpool
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63739.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63739.0.html)

Northamptonshire Co
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41336.msg1520020.html#msg1520020 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41336.msg1520020.html#msg1520020)

Enville Highgate
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44866.msg979077.html#msg979077 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44866.msg979077.html#msg979077)

Cleeve Cloud
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.msg1128469.html#msg1128469 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.msg1128469.html#msg1128469)

Next scheduled games

Goswick
Deal
Princes

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Thomas Dai on January 27, 2017, 08:06:27 AM
Sean,
Thank you for this tour. I've long wondered what Seaton Carew is like. The greensite in your last photo looks a cracker.
Atb
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Richard Muldoon on January 27, 2017, 10:42:51 AM

Sean,
played this 3 years ago, but don't remember a great amount of detail as it was the last day of a hectic short tour.
Pretty sure it was the Old Course, certainly didn't play any of the new holes.
What I do remember was that though not long the course really defended itself well in the 2 club cross wind we had that day and like you I thought the greens were excellent.
Unfortunately the previous winter was very wet so the early holes had been flooded for a while and there wasn't a great amount of grass on the fairways
Would love to revisit one day when the energy levels aren't so low.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 27, 2017, 12:36:28 PM
Sean,


I don't think I've ever played anything other than the Old or the Brabazon and neither suffer from the flow problem you mention.  Both are rather good and I like Seaton Carew quite a lot.  That said, it's a similar distance from home as Goswick and I think, of the two, I prefer Goswick.


As to only two par 3s, I think God, TOC and Elie can carry that off.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on February 01, 2017, 04:20:33 AM
Sean,


I don't think I've ever played anything other than the Old or the Brabazon and neither suffer from the flow problem you mention.  Both are rather good and I like Seaton Carew quite a lot.  That said, it's a similar distance from home as Goswick and I think, of the two, I prefer Goswick.


As to only two par 3s, I think God, TOC and Elie can carry that off.

Pearce

Okay...I'll give ya that.  Still, to not see a par 3 until the 10th....even TOC's heavenly makers weren't so brazen.  The liberties some folks take! 

Can anybody think of a course which doesn't have a par 3 until the back nine?  Do folks think that is a problem?  I recall Ran spitting nails because Dormie's first 3 doesn't show up until the 7th.


ATB...yer welcome.

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Clyde Johnson on February 01, 2017, 05:25:09 AM
It was out of play when I was there too, but the heavily defended third (switching back hard alongside the second) would be the first par three of the Old...
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on February 01, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
Sean,


I don't think I've ever played anything other than the Old or the Brabazon and neither suffer from the flow problem you mention.  Both are rather good and I like Seaton Carew quite a lot.  That said, it's a similar distance from home as Goswick and I think, of the two, I prefer Goswick.


As to only two par 3s, I think God, TOC and Elie can carry that off.

Pearce

Okay...I'll give ya that.  Still, to not see a par 3 until the 10th....even TOC's heavenly makers weren't so brazen.  The liberties some folks take! 

Can anybody think of a course which doesn't have a par 3 until the back nine?  Do folks think that is a problem?  I recall Ran spitting nails because Dormie's first 3 doesn't show up until the 7th.


ATB...yer welcome.

Ciao


The Island being the most obvious example of an excellent course with its first par 3 as late as the 9th hole. Definitely can't recall a whole front nine without one though.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on February 04, 2017, 05:17:04 AM
Maybe its just me, but I highly value the par 3, which is why its so irritating when courses offer mediocre types...I can't understand that.  With a good set I am happy to have 5 short holes and don't think two is enough no matter how good the course is.  Yes, The Island, TOC and Elie get away with it, but its a weakness so far as I am concerned.


Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Niall C on February 04, 2017, 08:44:44 AM
Getting away with something isn't the same as making a virtue out of it so I agree with Sean. If you are going to vary from the "regulation" four par 3's (and why not) then I'd prefer to see more rather than less provided they are varied and well done. Pretty well the same mantra as for the rest of the course.

Sean - as usual great photo tour and after seeing this and hearing your thoughts on it when we met recently then I'm keen to pay it a visit. Value for money is as always an issue for me and seems that is getting harder to achieve in East Lothian but down the coast I suspect it can still be had.

Niall
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on February 08, 2017, 02:37:09 PM
Niall


Yes, I reckon you would enjoy the low key design aspect of Seaton Carew.  As you suggest, the price is right as well. They do a 2ball Monday rate for £50 all year round!


Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Andy Levett on February 22, 2017, 07:28:56 AM

The Bishop is a useful layout during an unusually wet winter, as the water table can become so high that water pools in the dips of the fourth fairway of the Old as it has nowhere to drain to. But maybe it should be reserved for this, rather than planned into the rotation irrespective of the weather, because of the loss of the best par 3 and one of the stronger par 4s the Bishop layout entails.(3 and 4 of the Old).
Having said that there is probably no ideal  combination of the 22 holes, as the slightly weaker holes (in my opinion 6 and 8 of the Old, which are 4 and 6 of the Bishop) both have strong pairs going back the other way.
For 6 Old its the 11th (Bishop 9), which is the only short par 4 in the 22 and an excellent often driveable risk-reward eagle opportunity (with the prevailing helping wind and harder ground it would might even be a 3 wood for you Sean, if you chose to risk the trouble on the right).
Despite good greenside bunkering 8 Old is perhaps the weakest of the 22, but the layouts which omit it also lose the 9th, which is one of the best second-shot holes on the course.
I'm glad you liked the Lagoon and Gare (12 Bishop) holes, among my favourites too, but the 18th grows on most people with repeated plays in different conditions. With the prevailing wind, which is behind but also helping your ball towards the buckthorn it can be best to think of 1 and 18 as a shared fairway a la St Andrews and North Berwick, driving the ball over the big ridge in the centre to take the buckthorn out of play and give a great view of the green. With the other common wind, from the opposite direction, players seeking a strong finish will flirt with the buckthorn to give a level stance for the second, as carrying the ridge is not an option. (For those starting out on the 1st the options are a safe drive which may run too far left over the ridge into an awkward lie or aiming closer to the pond and OB to set up a simple second)
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Joe Hancock on February 22, 2017, 02:33:17 PM
Every hole includes a par 3...some of them, you get one or more warm up shots before you get to play it.


In all honesty, if the course is enough fun, I might not notice the lack of a 3 on the front nine....
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Mark Pearce on February 23, 2017, 05:09:20 AM
Welcome back, Andy!  A long time since I've seen you posting here.  Are you still playing at Seaton Carew?
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on February 25, 2017, 06:51:16 PM
Andy


Thanks.  I agree that 4 & 6 Bishop are average holes.  The overall question I have though is why the buckthorn down the right coming home? 


I shall remember the advice about 18 when I next visit.


Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Andy Levett on February 27, 2017, 07:11:37 AM

Mark
Yes, still a member at Seaton. Let me know if you fancy a game, if you haven't visited for a few years I think you'll find the greens much better than previously, buckthorn has been cut back a bit as well.


Sean
The buckthorn is linked to the gradual accretion of the dunes since Dr McCuaig laid out the original course in 1874. At that time not only the holes Pennink added in 1974 but also those Mackenzie created in 1924 would have been in the sea.
In 1924 Mackenzie's 14, 16 and 17 (Old) were right by the beach (they must have looked sensational but sadly there are no old pics as far as I know). This led to a problem of sand being blown onto the new holes during storms and the club decided to plant the buckthorn as a barrier not long after they opened.
Fast forward to 1974 and the dunes have accreted so much Mack's holes are nowhere near the beach and there is room for Pennink to put four new ones to the east. They also have buckthorn on the seaward side but whether that was planted for the same reason I don't know.
In the 43 years since the dunes have accreted still further - the reason is sand gets driven in during storms and the breakwaters north and south of Tees Bay stop it getting out again - and there's room for more golf in the attractive dunes created
As all the significant architectural events have happened at 50 year intervals - 1874, 1924, 1974 - it would be fitting, though improbable, if the 150th anniversary in 2024 was celebrated by an increase to 27 holes!
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on March 02, 2017, 12:44:51 PM
Andy


Has the club thought about whacking the buckthorn down?  It doesn't seem likely sand will get blown that far up.


Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Andy Levett on March 03, 2017, 06:57:45 AM
As you say, no chance of blown sand that far from the beach, so the original purpose has gone.
Quite a bit of buckthorn has been cut back in recent years, at the instigation of English Nature (I've forgotten exactly why), which has improved matters.
But I'm not sure there's much appetite for getting rid of all of it. It's an effective course boundary/barrier and as things are you get people wandering around all over the place on a summer evening despite there being dedicated rights of way across the course.
Where its not a boundary -  to the right of Old 14 - there might be a case, but if the buckthorn was replaced by long rough I'd rather not bother. At least with buckthorn people accept the lost ball quickly rather than searching for five minutes.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Jon Wiggett on March 03, 2017, 07:27:26 AM
Andy,


I believe that buckthorn is considered and invasive, none native species and that would be why English Nature want it eradicated.


Jon
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on March 11, 2017, 03:33:48 AM
Yes, English Nature gives Burnham a small sum of money most years recently to remove buckthorn etc.  Andy, its interesting that you have little faith in your club to maintain the rough properly should the buckthorn be removed and that currently at least folks just accept a lost ball.  Perhaps Seaton Carew should consider removing the buckthorn, pushing the fairways where possible a bit more right and post OOB.  You get the same result of the buckthorn and make the course much more attractive.  I am not one to worry much about people wandering on courses, certainly not to the degree of making the course a less attractive place (especially when a large percentage of the views are spoiled by industry) when there is an ocean beckoning. We get the same thing at Burnham....its small price to pay for the privilege of seaside golf. 


Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Andy Levett on March 13, 2017, 07:37:40 AM

Sean, I wouldn't argue with any of that, I was really just giving some of the reasons it might not happen. By the way, there are OOB stakes, you just can't see them for the buckthorn!
Regarding the rough, matters are in good hands. The below is pasted from the club's howdidido page
ONE of the toughest and oldest links courses in England is having a bit of a trim.
Seaton Carew Golf Club has some of the most challenging holes in the north and its long rough has caused even the best golfers huge problems over the years.
But in a bid to speed up play and soften the punishment for a wayward drive to handicappers across the board, the tenth oldest course in the country is being made, slightly, easier.
Ed Thompson, the chairman of the golf club’s greens committee, said: “The long rough has not been “managed” and has resulted in areas just off the fairways so dense that finding your ball is improbable, resulting in slow rounds and a lot of lost balls.
“This is not what an enjoyable round of golf consists off.”
Head greenkeeper Andrew Wood and his team have been knocking back the dense stuff with the Amazone cutting machine that Seaton Carew GC has invested in.
Wood said: “It’s to make the roughs more aesthetically inviting to look at, while speeding up play because it shouldn’t take as long to find a ball.
“The fineness of grass species we’re trying to introduce, in general, will make them easier to manage too.”
Replacing the thick rough with wispier grass will not eradicate the hazard completely because Seaton Carew wants to retain its tag of being a tough track on the edge of the North Sea coast.
The course was designed by Dr Alister MacKenzie, famed for designing the Augusta National where the US Masters is held, and has been rated regularly in the Top 100 in England.
The changes will only enhance its reputation, having held the likes of the Brabazon Trophy and Carris Trophy in the past.
Mr Thompson said: “The first stage of the rough management plan is to remove all the dense rough down the west of the course.
“This is well under way and for those who know the course, areas on the first, second and fifth have been cut. We intend to do the sixth and seventh before the main playing season begins in April.
“These areas will be allowed to regrow but managed to encourage the wispier fescues to dominate and suppress the broad leaved grasses which create a dense under carpet into which the ball disappears.”
The trimming will continue and is planned for the rest of the course in the months ahead.
Thompson added: “The business objective is to provide an enjoyable experience for members and visitors on a course which challenges the golfers ability but is not about searching for golf balls which miss the fairway/semi rough by a few yards.”
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on March 19, 2017, 05:07:44 AM
Andy

The news about the rough is music to my ears!  Now get them on to clearing the buckthorn  8)

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on December 04, 2017, 05:36:00 AM
I am bringing this thread back up in the hopes of finding out something about near neighbour (south of Tees Bay) Cleveland GC.  I have heard rumours that it is a much better course than its non-reputation suggests.  Being pleasantly surprised by Seaton Carew got me to wunderin'.  Any experienced GCAers out there?

Ciao
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Mark Pearce on December 04, 2017, 12:45:26 PM
No, but I'd be happy to meet up to find out.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Adam Lawrence on December 04, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
I don't know it but Colt was there in 1922, so it's got to be worth a look.
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Mark Pearce on December 04, 2017, 01:12:42 PM
The website looks interesting.  It seems to be a genuine links.  That and the suggestion that there might be some Colt there means I'm keen to see it.  Anyone fancy a GCA winter trip to Redcar?
Title: Re: 2016-17 Winter Tour: SEATON CAREW Bishop Course
Post by: Sean_A on December 07, 2017, 10:00:34 AM
Mark

Hartlepool looks a decent links as well.  I doubt I will make it up that way this winter, but if you organize something who knows.

Ciao