Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jud_T on May 10, 2013, 04:10:07 PM
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Talk amongst yourselves:
http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/08/golfweeks-best-municipal-courses-2013/
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Where is George Wright MUNICIPAL Golf Course on this list? ???
Mark
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Where's Shepherd's Crook?
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Arrowhead Pointe!
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Why are there only 31 courses? They like prime numbers?
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Isn't Common Ground a muni?
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Isn't Common Ground a muni?
No. It's owned by the Colorado Golf Association and the Colorado Women's Golf Association.
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Not my personal favorite, but Thunderhawk deserves a mention...
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Is the Knoll - West considered a muni?
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Chris,
I believe you're correct. Knoll West is owned by the Township of Parsippany-Troy Hills.
It's a major oversight not to include this 1929 Banks gem recently restored by George Bahto.
Another oversight IMO, is Papago in Phoenix.
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Chris,
I believe you're correct. Knoll West is owned by the Township of Parsippany-Troy Hills.
It's a major oversight not to include this 1929 Banks gem recently restored by George Bahto.
Another oversight IMO, is Papago in Phoenix.
Steve,
I thought so as well. I think they won an award for best muni in Golf Digest at some point in time. I recently gave my brother a recommendation to play this course in NJ. It is most likley my favorite public course in the Garden State.
Chris
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Montawk Downs GC is another that comes to mind.
Gatlinberg GC should be on there, but bob cupp obliterated the Langford from the course!!
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Man, Butterfield Trail looks pretty cool. Has anyone played it?
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I'd never hear of Elgin Highlands but for GCA. It is a barrel of monkeys, fun from start to finish. Except for 16.
Anybody want to go to Shepherds Crook next week? I've never been.
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Man, Butterfield Trail looks pretty cool. Has anyone played it?
I almost asked if anyone else had the top three covered. I've played Butterfield, and its very good given that it was build from nothing. If Talking Stick North is an example of minimalistic architecture on a boring piece of desert ground, then Butterfield is Fazio's "build something" example. And while I almost always take C & C in that comparison, I think Butterfield is a lot more fun.
That said, Pinon Hills at #8 is probably better.
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Here's some photos of Arrowhead Pointe. In case you are interested.
http://www.arrowheadpointegc.com/photo_gallery/ (http://www.arrowheadpointegc.com/photo_gallery/)
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I've only played it once, but I'd put in a shout out to Keller Golf Course, Ramsey County, St. Paul, MN.
The course is closing for a two year renovation. We had a thread on the topic not long ago. Richard Mandell is the reno archie. The course was a solid test of golf when I played it, with very cool use of terrain and routing scheme. It has tremendous provenance with a rich historical tournament history for both PGA and LPGA events. I sure hope Richard Mandell hits a homerun with his work there.
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Chris,
I believe you're correct. Knoll West is owned by the Township of Parsippany-Troy Hills.
It's a major oversight not to include this 1929 Banks gem recently restored by George Bahto.
Another oversight IMO, is Papago in Phoenix.
Steve,
I thought so as well. I think they won an award for best muni in Golf Digest at some point in time. I recently gave my brother a recommendation to play this course in NJ. It is most likley my favorite public course in the Garden State.
Chris
Agreed. I would have Knoll West near the top of this list.
Another Garden State omission if they include county course is Heron Glen in Hunterdon County, which I think is very, very underrated.
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Shennecossett Golf Club in Groton Connecticut deserves some consideration.
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GCA member Forrest Richardson has two of his courses on the list, # 18 - Olivas Links, and # 28 - Hideout. Congrats Forrest!
Anyone in So Cal looking for a fun links experience has got to play Olivas Links.
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I have the print edition in front of me right now. The print edition list is 50 courses. George Wright is #37. Montauk Downs is #42. Shepard's Crook is #47.
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[REMOVED]
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I thought this was a list of the 'Best Municipal Courses 2013' but I guess not.
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Who owns TPC Scottsdale?
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Who owns TPC Scottsdale?
It sits on land owned by the Federal government (Bureau of Reclamation). It is located in a floodplain created by the Central Arizona Project aqueduct.
Land is leased to City of Scottsdale. Operated by PGA Tour as part of TPC network.
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Kind of a stretch to call it a muni
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Agreed.
When it first opened, the Desert Course was priced and presented as a muni. Stadium Course has never fit that description.
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The Presidio? Are you kidding me? Worst course on the peninsula! San Jose Muni should have been voted higher than the Presidio!
It was a surprise to see the Presidio that high. But the worst course on the peninsula? Surely you jest.
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If you like 6.5 hour rounds and playing in the mud, the Presidio is the course du jour.
Golf Course architecture wise, I will be the first to admit, it is not the worst on the peninsula.
Everything else about it, IMO, is the absolute worst on the peninsula. Worst drainage, worst maintenance, longest rounds I've ever played. Would you agree that Sharp Park is the better of the two muni courses in SF? Shocking that the Presidio made this list ahead of so many better muni's.
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If you like 6.5 hour rounds and playing in the mud, the Presidio is the course du jour.
Golf Course architecture wise, I will be the first to admit, it is not the worst on the peninsula.
Everything else about it, IMO, is the absolute worst on the peninsula. Worst drainage, worst maintenance, longest rounds I've ever played. Would you agree that Sharp Park is the better of the two muni courses in SF? Shocking that the Presidio made this list ahead of so many better muni's.
I've only played it a couple of times, and when I've played it mud and pace of play have not been an issue (though I don't doubt your account). I'm not sure what the rankings factored into the equation. Holding pace of play and course condition constant, I would probably prefer Sharp Park over Presidio though it would be maybe a 6-4 split. But when you say it's the worst course on the Peninsula you're putting it ahead of, for instance, Poplar Creek? I don't mind playing Poplar but the Presidio is a far better layout.
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Magic. The online list now includes 50 courses just like in the print magazine:
http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/08/golfweeks-best-municipal-courses-2013/ (http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/08/golfweeks-best-municipal-courses-2013/)
A few mentioned above are included:
32. ThunderHawk
37. George Wright
42. Montauk Downs
43. Murphy Creek
47. Shepherd's Crook
49. Papago
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Nice to see Max Mandel on there, it's on my list of places I want to see very soon.
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If Chamber's Bay is already 2nd and Torrey Pines comes in at 4th I'll happily skip the rest thank you.
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If Chamber's Bay is already 2nd and Torrey Pines comes in at 4th I'll happily skip the rest thank you.
I'm with you, Diamond Jim Brady, those US Open courses are dumps.
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I looked at this list and thought how great it is that there are some high quality golf courses that are extremely accessible (perhaps with the exception - due to cost - of a TPC). I believe Bethpage Red is an outstanding golf course, and one that I would gladly play repeatedly (despite the 5+ hours we all know it typically takes). So, if in the view of X # of raters (however many necessary to get a course on this list) there are 26 'better' municipal golf courses in the country, that gets me excited to go see some more munis. I am sure I will like some and perhaps dislike some, and certainly will not rank them in this exact order. To me, that is the beauty of these lists and the discussions and debates they spark.
I've played 9 of these courses - (1) Bethpage Black, (4) Torrey Pines South, (5) TPC Scottsdale, (17) Torrey Pines South, (27) Bethpage Red, (33) Desert Willow - Firecliff, (34) Breckenridge GC, (42) Montauk Downs, (44) Blackthorn. I would say virtually all of these courses are 'above average' among the roughly 300 courses I have personally played.
I am a member at a private club, and pay dues so that I can play a solid course, in good condition, at a reasonable (4hr max) pace. I know I won't get all of those things at most of the courses on this list, but I bet most of them provide great bang for the buck and a pretty darn good experience. I am reminded that I am overdue to see Sleepy Hollow up in Cleveland, haven't been out to Montauk in a few years, and still really want to play Pinon Hills.
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Interestingly, the scoring difference between course #5 and #50 is only 0.7 while the gap between #3 and #5 is 0.45 and the gap between #2 and #3 is 1.2 (!)
Not much difference between most of these courses, but only a couple that are really exceptional.
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If Chamber's Bay is already 2nd and Torrey Pines comes in at 4th I'll happily skip the rest thank you.
You should add Bethpage Black on your list as well, because I promise BPB is even worse slog than Chambers.
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If Chamber's Bay is already 2nd and Torrey Pines comes in at 4th I'll happily skip the rest thank you.
You should add Bethpage Black on your list as well, because I promise BPB is even worse slog than Chambers.
+1
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What's this Chambers Bay slog stuff? It's a walk in the park!
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I would put Swope Park pretty high on a list if munis I have played, especially in comparison to Chicago's. Bit of a hilly goat track but also has some really fun "little Tilly" holes that resemble big brothers at the Black and other courses (especially a cool short par 5 that tracks BPB 4). $25 bucks, $32 on weekends. I suspect it doesn't have near enough votes to qualify.