Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Bob_Huntley on June 25, 2012, 12:26:28 PM
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We have a modern day Savonarolo among us. This chap wanted to outlaw all sorts of goodies of every day life.
The focus of this destruction was nominally on objects that might tempt one to sin, including vanity items such as mirrors, cosmetics, fine dresses, paintings, playing cards, and even musical instruments. Other targets included books that were deemed to be immoral, such as works by Boccaccio, and manuscripts of secular songs, as well as artworks, including paintings and sculpture.
Now comes a new zealot ranting about the perils of golf carts, range finders, cart tracks, booklets and sprinklers marked with yardages.
His use of Broad band takes up more space than any fifty of any of other member of GCA and although amusing for the vehemence it provides, should be curtailed.
Bob
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Bob,
I believe strongly in the concept of freedom of speech. Silencing an opinion because you (not meaning you personally) do not with it is abhorent. I say let him rant and allow me the option to agree or disagree.
Jon
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Bob:
That is wonderful and hilarious---particularly the historic context you placed it in. Without actually referring to him, MY, WHO could you be referring to?!? ;)
I suppose it's true to say when there is something of significance, literature, music, art, even golf, there always will be the zealots. As Charles Blair Mcdonald said so poignantly about golf architecture-----"If everyone agrees something is satisfactory it must be deadly dull."
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Yes, Jon, most of us strongly agree with free speech (at least those of us who are Americans and have that right enshrined in our Constitution--when are you Brits going to get around to dealing with this issue? ;)), but free speech does not mean that we have to be silent when windbags intentionally disrupt our enjoyment of the discussion of golf course architecture and related topics. Those who continuously bloviate on this site without rhyme or reason or even the ability to coherently argue their points of view have the right to remain here as long as Ran allows them to be here, but that does not mean that we cannot ignore or even belittle them through our exercise of free speech (or the lack thereof)?
Rich
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A little tail twisting is good in dealing with the bloviators.
And Mr. Huntley does it so elegantly.
Well said Mr. Goodale!
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Rich,
The words "should be curtaild" to me imply censorship or suppression. Quite a bit different than "that does not mean that we cannot ignore or even belittle them through our exercise of free speech" I would say.
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Rich,
as Garland says, what Bob is proposing is actually stopping freedom of speech. I believe you will find that there is a just as much freedom of speech here in Blighty as in the USA just the same as our right to firearms ::)
Jon
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This is NOT a freedom of speech issue; it's freedom of association. I've never encountered a person who is as snide, dismissive and doctrinaire. He has repeatedly threatened to quit but his vanity/victimhood won't allow it. This is a cancer that should be removed.
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Luckily, few of us are so positioned as to proscribe/enforce our whims and dictates on others, as the powerfully connected Savonarola tried to do. Most of us -- for better or worse -- are like little sheep on a vast healthland, bleating out our complaints to an uncaring world as the powerful winds of history blow past and disperse our tiny voices back into the nothingness from which they emerged.
Screw it; I'm going golfing!!
Peter
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This is NOT a freedom of speech issue; it's freedom of association. I've never encountered a person who is as snide, dismissive and doctrinaire. He has repeatedly threatened to quit but his vanity/victimhood won't allow it. This is a cancer that should be removed.
So if it is a freedom of association issue, then it seems to me you are advocating suppression of that freedom for those that wish to associate with those that you do not wish to associate with. So how does changing from freedom of speech to freedom of association really change anything about what this thread is about at its core?
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Bob is right on the money on this one, very well said.
And as a site note, Speech is indeed NOT free on this site as its both privately run and someone had to pay for this website. To boot, shockingly enough <emoticons omitted> his name is nowhere to be found on the list of donors to keep this site going commercial free.
This person can only speak his mind over and over again because Ran allows him too...and nothing else.
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Kalen,
It may be news to you, but this site does allow, accept, and honor donations from contributors that wish to make their donations anonymously.
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Kalen,
It may be news to you, but this site does allow, accept, and honor donations from contributors that wish to make their donations anonymously.
Fair enough, he may have done so....but either way it doesn't change the nature of allowed speech on this site.
We are all guests in Ran's domain, nothing more than that.
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John and Garland,
I think you should examine the word 'curtail'.
transitive verb
: to make less by or as if by cutting off or away some part.
I was not saying he be silenced or censored but that his diatribes be lessened with brevity or a modicum of humor.
Bob
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Thanks Bob,
Being a mathematician/black and white kind of guy, I sometimes miss such subtleties.
When the posts get too long or numerous, I curtail my reading. I think I've got it right now. ;)
EDIT:
I note Terry's use of the word removed. Perhaps Jon and I are not the only ones that mistook curtailed.
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Richard the Magnificent:
BLOVIATE?!?
Watch what you say on here, BOY-----didn't you know if he catches you Ran Morrissett will suspend you for talking dirty on his DG?
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Richard the Magnificent:
BLOVIATE?!?
Watch what you say on here, BOY-----didn't you know if he catches you Ran Morrissett will suspend you for talking dirty on his DG?
Hey, Tom, I'm so yesterday that I only learned that word a few years ago from Dan Kelly (TM) on this forum!
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Ricardo:
If it's words you want, just see me. Back in 1961, at the behest of Horace Wood Brock, my ultra genius cousin, instead of reading our summer book list, I just did what he did and memorized the whole damned dictionary! In lieu of my summer reading list book report I thought that might impress my "English" English teacher at St Marks.
No such luck! He gave me a zero on the summer book list project and told me any callow WASP youth of 16 at St. Marks School should essentially have the English dictionary memorized anyway. I actually took that English English teacher quite seriously until he told me that all 12 year old callow St. Markers should also have Teddy Bears like all the special and sophisticated kids at the top-notich English public schools did.
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Thanks Bob,
Being a mathematician/black and white kind of guy, I sometimes miss such subtleties.
When the posts get too long or numerous, I curtail my reading. I think I've got it right now. ;)
EDIT:
I note Terry's use of the word removed. Perhaps Jon and I are not the only ones that mistook curtailed.
He is incapable of being curtailed, that much ought to be obvious. Not to worry, I've reported dozens of his scurrilous comments to the powers that be and this weanling woodlouse is still spewing venom at all hours of the night. This is just a repeat of numerous MHM-created victim emergencies where he makes an fool of himself, is called out by various people, then he retreats, claiming he'll take his treasure trove of useless old clippings with him into hibernation, thereby bringing out a free speech advocate or two, which generally brings him back into posting more drivel, which leads to more insults and ad hominem attacks. I don't know why it works for him, probably because nobody listens to him in Scotland any more.
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"This is NOT a freedom of speech issue; it's freedom of association. I've never encountered a person who is as snide, dismissive and doctrinaire."
Terry:
Do not give up hope, at least not yet anyway. While he may be the only person you've encountered who is as snide, dissmissive and doctrinaire as you say, I am told by a few on here that I am even worse, so at the very least, if it would make you feel better, you can always claim that you have not encountered me yet. ;) :o 8) ::) :P
Is there something you've been wanting to tell me about the architectural history of Merion East? :-*
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He occassionally offers something worthwhile and unique from his historical archives. The rest of the noise would disappear if the rest of us could just bear to ignore it completely, but it's pretty damn hard to do sometimes.
Trolls need food, and they travel to the bridge at Golfwrx or somewhere like that when they can't find it at GCA.
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On this particular matter, it brings to mind something one of my wonderful old golfing friends used to say; to wit:
"Every red-blooded American should be issued at birth a single personal missle which they could use once in their lifetime. The only real problem becomes who to use that one-time personal missle on in one's lifetime." ;)
Bob Huntley:
Now that you are waxing eloquent on historical figures, would you mind telling me everything you've ever known about Svengali? I figure with your connections you must have known Du Maurier's son or grandson from somewhere around the globe in your travels. And if you really get into it perhaps you can tell me everything you know about Trilby too.
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On this particular matter, it brings to mind something one of my wonderful old golfing friends used to say; to wit:
"Every red-blooded American should be issued at birth a single personal missle which they could use once in their lifetime. The only real problem becomes who to use that one-time personal missle on in one's lifetime." ;)
Make mine full of chemical weapons.
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On this particular matter, it brings to mind something one of my wonderful old golfing friends used to say; to wit:
"Every red-blooded American should be issued at birth a single personal missle which they could use once in their lifetime. The only real problem becomes who to use that one-time personal missle on in one's lifetime." ;)
Bob Huntley:
Now that you are waxing eloquent on historical figures, would you mind telling me everything you've ever known about Svengali? I figure with your connections you must have known Du Maurier's son or grandson from somewhere around the globe in your travels. And if you really get into it perhaps you can tell me everything you know about Trilby too.
Tom,
Alas I know nothing. I did try out my Svengali guise a long, long time ago with young lady who seemed to think hypnosis might be fun. I discovered I was a lousy hypnotist and she wasn't a pliable as I had imagined.
Bob
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Are we still talking 'bout Mac Plumart? I don't take him for an uncurtailed bloviator...
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We have a modern day Savonarolo among us. This chap wanted to outlaw all sorts of goodies of every day life.
The focus of this destruction was nominally on objects that might tempt one to sin, including vanity items such as mirrors, cosmetics, fine dresses, paintings, playing cards, and even musical instruments. Other targets included books that were deemed to be immoral, such as works by Boccaccio, and manuscripts of secular songs, as well as artworks, including paintings and sculpture.
Now comes a new zealot ranting about the perils of golf carts, range finders, cart tracks, booklets and sprinklers marked with yardages.
His use of Broad band takes up more space than any fifty of any of other member of GCA and although amusing for the vehemence it provides, should be curtailed.
Bob
Sir Bob, that sounds so much classier than my opinion: he should just shut the F*%* up...
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You all win. He is now a guest.
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You all win. He is now a guest.
Mac,
I am surprised that you feel that this is a wining situation for anyone. The person who is now a guest alienated a good many people on this site by constantly high- jacking threads to pursue his own agenda. If it was not apparent to you, then I suggest you read carefully every post that was made by the guest, it became offensive and repetitive.
Bob
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So we have type cast this zealot of golf vanities as our modern day Scotish Savonarola? We might as well make a sequel while we are at it. I assume this is a sequel of the movie or book, "The Agony and the Ecstasy".
We need to find more modern day characters to play the proper role. Well it is set in the Renaissance, and we do have an artist who calls his firm, that. So Tom gets to be Buonarotti? Sir Bob, with all your munificent offers of sharing the CPC, MPCC Cistine Chapel of golf, you surely are Lorenzo. Then again, the benevolent dictator or the fellow that benevolently runs our little cyber world, must be Machiavellian and role to be played by Ran. TEP, you'd make a good Benvenuto Cellini with all the escapes of your jaunt through life. I'm afraid I might have to place your two nemeses and detractors of Merion epic in the Borgia family. WE may have to get Vinnie Kmetz to write this all up in the Irving Stone tradition. Although we all know Jay Flemma is salivating to write this 'Agony and Ecstasy' modern reprise episode, after he finishes "Name that Rose" part due.
So anywho... Michelangelo said this about 'Love' and his long love suffering for a "him!"?
But it may express more about my feeling towards my golf game (no pun or correlation intended)
A goiter it seems I got from this backward craning (backswing)
like the cats get there in Lombardy, or wherever
—bad water, they say, from lapping their fetid river.
My belly, tugged under my chin, 's all out of whack. (my putting)
Beard points like a finger at heaven. Near the back
of my neck, skull scrapes where a hunchback's lump would be. (I'm past parallel at the top)
I'm pigeon-breasted, a harpy! Face dribbled—see?— (golf whore)
like a Byzantine floor, mosaic. From all this straining
my guts and my hambones tangle, pretty near. (I loose a lot of skins)
Thank God I can swivel my butt about for ballast.
Feet are out of sight; they just scuffle around, erratic. ( once in a while I do hit it good - just not too pretty)
Up front my hide's tight elastic; in the rear
it's slack and droopy, except where crimps have callused.
I'm bent like a bow, half-round, type Asiatic. (I'm getting old and golf has become a painful obsession)
Not odd that what's on my mind,
when expressed, comes out weird, jumbled. Don't berate; (I commiserate with my golf friends at 19th hole)
no gun with its barrel screwy can shoot straight. ( Can I really expect to hit it true with all these swing thoughts contorting my mind?)
Giovanni, come agitate
for my pride, my poor dead art! I don't belong! (alright, who wants to play johnny?)
Who's a painter? (golfer) Me? No way! They've got me wrong!
At which point Lorenzo observed:
Quant’è bella giovinezza
che si fugge tuttavia!
Chi vuol esser lieto, sia:
(that one is for Pietro Pallotta) ;) ;D 8)
Ciao
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I never thought that I would see something like this on this site. Hounding and bullying someone just because you do not agree with their point of view. This thread should put all of us involved in GCA to shame. :'(
Jon
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Gentlemen,
As you all probably know I am a Scottish/Aussie twat and have been glancing, sometimes perusing and oft times reading all the past threads. I am on page 350 having started at page 971. At fifty threads to the page that is nigh on 31000 threads.
As far as I can make out this thread represents Golf Club Atlas' nadir.
Yours Colin
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Colin,
You are quite right. Melvyn represents the nadir (and Bob Huntley the apogee) of this site. Thanks, I couldn't have said it better.
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Melvin is just another poster who needed to put down the bottle and step back from the keyboard. He certainly wasn't the first and he won't be the last. Over the years some have come back and others just made their own private lounges.
After over 10 years and 1500 or so registered users there have been maybe less than 20 users that needed to be booted or leave, a pretty good record for an Internet forum.
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Colin,
You are quite right. Melvyn represents the nadir (and Bob Huntley the apogee) of this site. Thanks, I couldn't have said it better.
Of course Colin's implication was the opposite of your statement. Don't you do logic?
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This would be the thread I was referring to with my comment on the other thread. :P
May the proverbial basement of all golf course architecture related discussion heretofore be elevated.
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Garland Bayley:
Are you sure? What if Colin's implication was in agreement with Bob Huntley's initial message on this thread?
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I'm sure.
But only Colin can verify.
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I never thought that I would see something like this on this site. Hounding and bullying someone just because you do not agree with their point of view.
Wait, you mean you never saw Morrow's posts?
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I never thought that I would see something like this on this site. Hounding and bullying someone just because you do not agree with their point of view.
Wait, you mean you never saw Morrow's posts?
Dan, you may be right but can you name anyone else on here who was systematically ganged up on by certain parties regardless of what was written or the tone? Also, name the person/people who have felt compelled to leave this forum on account of Mr. Morrow's posts?
That is the point I am trying to make.
Jon
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I never thought that I would see something like this on this site. Hounding and bullying someone just because you do not agree with their point of view.
Wait, you mean you never saw Morrow's posts?
Dan, you may be right but can you name anyone else on here who was systematically ganged up on by certain parties regardless of what was written or the tone? Also, name the person/people who have felt compelled to leave this forum on account of Mr. Morrow's posts?
Jon,
Ran may have a solution. Let the guy write In My Opinion pieces with no comments section and people can read them or not. I won't as I believe I got the gist of his arguments the first 5,000 times I read them.
Also my name isn't Dan.
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Maybe David, though I would have thought Ran's reaction should give some people food for thought.
Sorry about the name David, don't know where that came from except its late and its probably pumkin time.
Jon