Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 10, 2010, 02:48:29 PM

Title: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 10, 2010, 02:48:29 PM
I will shortly post photos of Mersea and Colwyn Bay, two clubs no longer in existence. But in my trawl through Golf Clubs of the Empire 1927-1931 I noted down quite a number of courses that caught my eye for being unfamiliar to me. Probably I missed quite a number - 2500 pages in two days is a lot. But here are some that may catch your eye too. Royal Cornwall, West Cheshire and lots more....? Any authoritative feedback would be greatly welcomed.


Felixstowe Eastward Ho! GC 18 holes 6000 yards Felixstowe Town station 4 minutes walk
Felixstowe GC 18 holes 5653 yards Felixstowe Town station 1¼ miles (only one club in Felixstowe today, Felixstowe Ferry)
Markeaton 5818 yards (Renamed? Nle?)
Derbyshire GC Ltd 18 holes 5652 yards (Renamed? Nle?)
Royal Cornwall Golf Club (Bodmin) (Nle?)
Blakeney and Cley GC (Nle?)
Blackpool Golf Club 18 holes 6407 yards (not clear whether North Shore, Stanley Park or another club nle)
Castle Bromwich 18 holes 6000 yards ‘reconstructed in 1914 and improved since’ (Nle?)
Annfield Plain (Co Durham) 12 holes (Nle?)
Amble (Northumberland) 9 holes ‘Seaside course. New inland course under construction’. (Is this known under a different name? Nle?)
Royal Isle of Wight (Nle?)
Chale GC (IOW) (Nle?)
Needles GC (IOW) (Nle?)
Greatstone Golf Club 18 holes (Littlestone) (Nle? Or did it become Romney Warren?)
Llandrindod Wells ‘Two 18 hole courses’ (Only one today?)
Llandrindod Wells Rock Park Golf Links 18 holes (Nle?)
Great Orme Golf Club 18 holes (Nle – difficult to see how you could get 18 holes onto this site)
Clapham Common GC 9 holes No Sunday play (Nle)
Home Park (Surbiton) 18 holes no Sunday play (Nle? Hampton Court Palace GC was known as Home Park, but Kingston is not Surbiton)
Merton Park 5939 yards (Nle or changed name?)
Molesey Hurst 18 holes (Nle disappeared 1930s – but golf recorded here in 1758!)
Neasden GC 18 holes (Nle – Markes, founder of Sandy Lodge had been a member)
New Hanger Hill GC (Ealing) 18 holes (Nle?)
Norbury GC (Streatham) 9 holes (Nle?)
Northshaw GC 9 holes (nearest station Potters Bar or Cuffley) (Nle?)
Northwick Park (Middx) 18 holes (Nle)
Oxhey GC 18 holes (Nle – folded after 2nd World War when Oxhey council estate built)
North Surrey GC 18 holes (adjoining Norbury station) (Nle?)
Pollard’s Hill GC 18 holes (Norbury station  ½ mile) (Nle?)
Ranelagh Club, Barnes 18 holes (Nle) (Roehampton Club listed separately)
Streatham GC (Tooting Bec) 9 holes no Sunday play ‘Play allowed on Tooting Bec Common under LCC regulations.’ (Nle)
Wembley GC Ltd ‘closed down 25th March 1927’
Meir GC (Longton, Staffs) 18 holes (Nle?)
Lowestoft 6177 yards (Nle?)
The Old Manchester Golf Club 9 holes. (No address given. Club founded in 1818, playing at Kersall Moor. The club still exists but is described as a club without a course).
Market Drayton 9 holes (now 18, possibly not on same site)
Nantwich GC (Nle)
Pendle Forest GC (Nelson) (Nle)
Clairemont GC (Newcastle) 18 holes (Nle?)
Padgate (Warrington) 18 holes (Nle?)
Mersey GC (Penketh) (Nle)
Penzance 18 holes 4844 yards (Nle?)
Peterborough 9 holes (Nle? Peterborough Milton founded 1937)
United Services GC, Plymouth 18 holes 5361 yards (Nle?)
Studley Royal GC (Ripon) (Nle? Ripon City GC listed separately)
St Margaret’s Bay (Kent) 5588 yards (Nle)
Shornclife Garrison Golfing Soc (Kent) (Nle)
Slaithwaite and District 9 holes (Yorkshire) (Nle)
Harton Moor (South Shields) 18 holes (Nle)
Whitworth Park (Spennymoor) 9 holes (Nle)
Spilsby & District (Lincs) 9 holes (Nle)
Cotswold GC (Stow-on-the-Wold) 9 holes (Nle)
King Arthur’s Castle GC (Tintagel) 9 holes (Nle)
Tonrefail and Gilfach Goch GC 9 holes (Glamorganshire) (Nle?)
Towyn 18 holes (Merioneth) (Nle?)
Culverdon (Tunbridge Wells) 18 holes 4671 yards (Nle?)
West Cheshire GC (Wallasey) 18 holes Station Poulton. (Nle? Wallasey GC is listed separately. Poulton Station was actually Liscard and Poulton and closed in 1960)
Whitchurch (Salop) 9 holes (Nle)
Archerfield GC Membership 30 18 holes no Sunday play, private course
Camberley Barossa GC ‘Membership 150. Ladies play at all times.’ (Nle?)
Holy Island (Northumberland) 9 holes (Nle)
Hooton GC (Cheshire) (Nle)
Crotona GC (Keighley) ‘9 holes will be increased to 18. Membership 100’ (Nle?)
Mote Mount GC (Mill Hill) 18 holes (Nle? No mention of Mill Hill GC. Could it be the same club?)
Blackpool Cleveleys Hydro GC 18 holes (Nle? Or under another title?)
Mersea Island 18 holes (Nle?)
Hurdsfield (Macclesfield) 9 holes (Nle)
Kingston Hill GC (Stafford) (Nle? Or is this Stafford Castle)
Colwyn Bay 18 holes (Nle, now a sprawling housing estate)
Old Colwyn 18 holes (now only 9)
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on November 10, 2010, 02:52:12 PM
Mark

Fantastic effort, unfortunately can't help much as I think all of these courses are on the wrong side of Hadrians Wall. Interested to read though if anyone can help.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on November 10, 2010, 03:24:02 PM
Mark - I have a database of existing and past courses. Not really much info to add on the past ones though. Royal Cornwall held the county championship, infact there are many instances of course from the past that held county championships which mean they must have been pretty good courses in their time. Some will be name changes and there are plenty of 9 holers now defenct. The Golfers Annual is a great source, still published today ofcourse. I am solid on them back to 1937 but only have about 5 between 1887 and 1934. I doubt there is much we would miss after WW2 but there are a lot of courses that existed between the wars. If you ever find anything on Rodway Hill GC, Mangotsfield. I would be very intrested it closed about 1946.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Norbert P on November 10, 2010, 03:35:23 PM

"Well I never been to England,
But I kinda like the Beatles.
 Well, I headed out for Las Vegas,
 Only made it out to Needles."  Hoyt Axton

  Never Been To Spain   Performed by HA, 3 Dog Night and Elvis Presley


Is Archerfield now The Renaissance Club?

Felixstowe ?  Which one did Darwin write about?

  Mr. Rowlinson, you are amazing.  UK Golf history is in good hands.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 10, 2010, 04:04:46 PM
Mark,

there used to be one just outside the village where I grew up. This is Horbury, outside Wakefield in West Yorkshire. It was set on the hillside on the opposite side of the Calder river between Horbury and Netherton. Not sure what the name of the course was but I believe it was a 9 hole course and was in existence around 1920 to 1930 ish.

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 10, 2010, 04:05:51 PM
Slag,

There are two courses at Archerfield, which is next door to Renaissance (indeed the approach to RC is through Archerfield land but they are both new.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 10, 2010, 04:08:02 PM
Mark,

A list you circulated by e-mail included a course at Chalfont St Giles.  I thought that might be NLE, since the only course I know in CsG is a 1980s development?

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adam Lawrence on November 10, 2010, 04:09:37 PM
Mark - do you know whether the NLE Great Orme course was on the same or a similar piece of land to the proposed new course on the Orme (which seems to be a dead project now)?

Adam
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 10, 2010, 04:24:52 PM
Mark.
I was exploring Google earth and now some areas you can take the image back to 1945. I found a course in Newcastle, which now longer exists, and from the image I can only find 12 holes. Also in Newcastle, you can see the original Mackenzie routing at City of Newcastle. I was hoping to find a 1945 aerial of the courses in the North East of England, such as Harton Moor as you mentioned but Google only covers some areas.

I also found another course near Edinburgh Airport, Ingliston which now longer exists. I am not sure of the names or histories of these courses, but Google Earth is interesting.

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 10, 2010, 04:45:48 PM
The original Mackenzie course at Wynyard in Durham is another to your list.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 10, 2010, 05:20:35 PM
Jonathan,

Whereabouts in Newcastle?

Mark,

On that e-mail list I think there was a Newcastle course we weren't familiar with?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on November 10, 2010, 05:45:48 PM
Thanks Mark, very interesting.

IOW

The Needles you can still make out some features on Google earth.  It’s INCREDIBLY exposed to winds being hundreds of feet in the air. The local rule was you had to take a drop if your ball went within six club lengths of the edge.

(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/Muldoon3/IOW/needlesgreens.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/Muldoon3/IOW/Needles.jpg)


Royal IOW is profiled as Bembridge in British Golf links.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/Muldoon3/IOW/Duverrotated.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/Muldoon3/IOW/DSCN1114.jpg)


There’s more on NLE courses on the IOW and London in  Through the Green which is now available on line.


Mersea was a Braid and quite highly thought of and was another one lost circa WW11. Mersea is an island in the mudflats of Essex, quite flat. I have more info somewhere.

Molesey Hurst.  This one went to a housing development.  I was told the turf was so fine it was lifted and re-laid on Ascot racecourse. In 2000 they put a marker down to record Garrick’s golf day, roughly where the course was later.  There’s more on this in a thread by FBD called “A Park in the Park” which is about Home Park GC and yes Surbiton is puzzling.  Home Park is North of the river in, the area beloved by cockney’s, Hampton Wick.

I’d love to know more about Blakeney and Cley. The landscape there would have made Brancaster look poplualted, It’s a long spit of land out into the sea.

I thought Archerfield was between the new Renaissance Club and the West Links?

Clapham Common is as flat as a pancake and today is always crowded with many ball games.  Approx 3 miles of the centre of London. Imagine a 9 hole course in Regents Park!  The club had to move, first to Tooting then Mitcham then becoming peripatetic, but one of the big London clubs still plays for the Clapham trophy.  Can anyone recall which?   Golf was played on Tooting Bec, another flattish open patch of clay common ground.  Darwin cited it as just the sort of land that made Heaths so attractive.  There were near riots about the toffs playing on such a populated space and it went too.

I’ll look for more tomorrow.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 10, 2010, 06:07:08 PM
Jonathan,

I think I have found it, to the west of Coach Lane, south of Longbenton Post Office?  That area now has a Northumbria University Accomodation Block and some new housing.  The other side of the road is the Coach Lane Campus, with Northumbria's (very impressive) sports facility.  My guess is that the student accomodation is a '60s building but that's a guess.  I'll see if I can find out anything else.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Neil_Crafter on November 10, 2010, 07:37:55 PM
Jonathan
Could you post a link to the Google Earth location of the City of Newcastle course by Mackenzie? Thanks.
The Wynyard course you refer to was a private course Mackenzie designed for Lord Londonberry. Here is a bit of info we have on the course:

Listed in 1923 AM advertisement as "Wynyard Park (Lord Londonderry's course)". The course no longer exists. In Mackenzie's letter to Dr Willans of Seaton Carew of 15 July 1924 he writes that "I do not know of any really first class courses in either Northumberland or Durham: The little nine hole course I did for Lord Londonderry is the only one I have supervised myself but the work was carried out by untrained men and the land is not of the best type as it is heavy clay. Nevertheless, it probably compares favourably with many others in the district."

Do you have any idea where the course was and what might be there today? I am especially interested in lost Mackenzie courses. Another lost Mac 9 holer is the London Flying Club (later the London Country Club) at Hendon. Built in 1919 and gone by 1927 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 11, 2010, 01:29:06 AM
Mark
The course I can find is next to Benton Primary School, I am not sure if this is the Clairemont Gc Mark mentioned, I used to live on the other side of the river, so dont know to much about this area.

Neil
Wynyard Hall is a big golfing estate, huge houses, a big statley home and a Hawtree course maybe 15 year old.The was an original plan to develop 5 golf courses within the estate. A very beautiful old country estate.

I will try and draw up the Mackenzie course on the google image to show you.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 11, 2010, 02:14:16 AM
Mark, here is the course in Newcastle, I can only find 12 holes.

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/newnew.jpg)

Here is the same site now.

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/claremontgc-2010.jpg)

City of Newcastle - 1945

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/city-1945.jpg)

City of Newcastle - 2010

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/CityCourse2000.jpg)

The other lost course close to Edinburgh Airport.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/EdinburghAirportGc-1945.jpg)

And the same view today
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/jondava/EdinburghAirportGc-2010.jpg)
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on November 11, 2010, 03:18:49 AM
Slag,

There are two courses at Archerfield, which is next door to Renaissance (indeed the approach to RC is through Archerfield land but they are both new.

The original Archerfield course was described by Tom Simpson as one of the four great courses in East Lothian, along with Muirfield, North Berwick and Gullane.

I'm not sure the exact land it played on but I presume it was within the current Archerfield Estate.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 11, 2010, 03:45:11 AM
Jonathan,

I can find 14 greens on that photo from newcastle so just 4 greens missing if it was infact a 18 holer,

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 11, 2010, 06:06:14 AM
Jonathan,

That's the one I found, thanks for posting.  I guess it could be Clairemont.  However, something occurred to me about that name last night.  The original clubhouse for City of Newcastle GC, which became to Newcastle United GC club house when City moved to Gosforth (and NU have since moved their club house and, I suspect course) was an old windmill (still there) on Claremont Road.  I wonder if Clairemont was a reference to Newcastle United, or if there was a seperate club that shared that facility?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ben Stephens on November 11, 2010, 07:51:12 AM
Mark,

There is Northampton Golf Club's Willie Park jr's original layout in the centre of Northamptonon Spinney Hill. The club left to move to a new site in Harlestone in the late 80's/early 90's. About 7 or 8 holes were very much like links land according to a friend of mine who used to be a member there. The club now plays at Harlestone on a Donald Steel designed layout.

Downfield (Dundee) original 18 holes by Braid - only about 4/5 holes remain thanks to the 1945 images on Google Earth.

Luffenham Heath lost 3 holes to World War 2.

Uppingham used to have a nine hole course - that was planned to be an 18 hole course and was under construction with view of the EGU taking over but the EGU ended up buying Woodhall Spa which meant the developer folded. The planning documents are still at the council planning department.

I have had 2 par 3 holes on the par 3 course at Greetham Valley which I designed now replaced by chalets!

Cheers
Ben
 
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 11, 2010, 09:34:20 AM
Thanks for your input. Of course I'll have missed some - it was whatever lifted off the page. I did look for Neil's Hendon course but it wasn't listed. When I've finished scanning the photocopies of course pictures I'll happily pass them on to anyone to whom they may be of interest or use.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Richard Muldoon on November 11, 2010, 09:42:40 AM
Mark,
one to add to your list would be Newbury & Crookham Golf Course. I would have to check but I think the original course was actually on Greenham Common and called just Crookham Golf Club.
As far as Home Park is concerned I think it would be too much of a coincidence not to be the current Hampton Court Palace Course. Surbiton / Thames Ditton is literally the other side of the river. You could probably hit a well struck driver onto the fairway of the 3rd hole from across the river. What do you think Tony?
Incidently Surbiton Golf Club is not in Surbiton but Chessington / Claygate.

Richard
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: James Boon on November 11, 2010, 09:46:22 AM
Mark,

I've some information at home regarding Derbyshire GC as it was on a site that was then developed in the 30s for housing, and my house forms part of that development. I'll try and post something when I get home tonight. Assuming Markeaton relates to Markeaton Park, also in Derby, then its not one I've heard of but I'll see what I can find.

As Tony says, I would love to see what the course at Blakeney and Cley was like?

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Michael Wharton-Palmer on November 11, 2010, 09:54:34 AM
I remember playing in the British Boys at Barrasie and someone telling me there used to be another course that was adjacent to it...anybody know of this?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 11, 2010, 09:59:40 AM
Mark,

You may not have missed them.  I guess it's more than possible that the original book was incomplete or that some of the NLEs weren't in existence (already NLE or YTE) when the book was produced?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Craig Disher on November 11, 2010, 10:11:53 AM
Mark,
Greatstone GC existed until the late 1940s or early 1950s when it was abandoned. It was located south of Littlestone GC on the triangle of land between Coast Road and Dunes Road. The Romney Warren (recently renamed the Littlestone Warren) is an 18-hole course that is immediately adjacent to Littlestone GC.

There is another course near Rye that also went out of existence in the 1940s. It was located around the Camber Castle historical site and a few greens, bunkers, and tees can still be seen there. Someone told me that it originally was owned by Rye GC but I've never been able to find any definitive information about it.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 11, 2010, 10:28:33 AM
Mark
I think this subject is so interesting... maybe you will discover another Lido ?

And I am sure a UK version of Wexler's Lost links would be a great read.

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on November 11, 2010, 10:34:52 AM
Mark
I think this subject is so interesting... maybe you will discover another Lido ?

And I am sure a UK version of Wexler's Lost links would be a great read.



We tried a thread like this a couple of years ago to see if there were any "great" courses lost....

Addington New seemed to be the most likely but possibly only because there's so little information on many others...
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 11, 2010, 11:47:32 AM
Adam,

The Great Orme course was about half way up. You could just make out vestiges from the tram on the way to the summit twenty or more years ago when our children were of that sort of age. There are occasional flattish bits, but as I remember it there was no way you could fit 18 holes in. The housing on this part is quite old - stoneworkers' cottages - so it's not that the course has been built on. I don't know how that relates to the proposed new development.

Who would know? Possibly:

Peter Lees - professional at Conwy for 40 years. Give him a ring and mention me.
John Roger Jones - big name in Welsh golf over the years.
Clive Brown - former Walker Cup Captain who started his golf in Llandudno. Mention me.

Sorry not to be more knowledgeable.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 11, 2010, 01:36:46 PM
Adam,

I found this site on Google:
http://www.greatorme.org.uk/summit.html
It seems that the golf club must have been right on the summit, not where I thought it was at all. I'm surprised there was enough room up on the summit - there are some huge drops and steep slopes. Maybe another Old Head beckons!

Mark.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 11, 2010, 01:41:07 PM
I've stumbled across another possible NLE: Fort Anne GC, Douglas IOM. 18 holes, listed separately from Douglas GC. It is given as 1/4 mile from Douglas Pier Station.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jonathan Davison on November 11, 2010, 01:54:15 PM
Mark
Do you know who designed some of these lost courses? I am curious about the North East courses.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Melvyn Morrow on November 11, 2010, 02:00:52 PM

For info on the Great Orme check out the article in The World Hickory Golfer by David Wyke   The following is the link to the article

http://www.worldhickorygolfer.com/page3.html

Melvyn
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 11, 2010, 02:25:51 PM
Thanks Melvyn. The photo is lovely but it doesn't do justice to the severity of the slopes. I suspect Health and Safety would have something to say about it now! How the old chapel goers and methodist guest house occupants of Llandudno would recoil in horror at the thought of Llandudno's flesh pots! They don't even allow ice cream vans on the seafront.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on November 11, 2010, 02:36:55 PM
Melvyn my scanner is unfortunately not working.  Could you find the time to post the details you sent me re Colts real first course. NLE?

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on November 11, 2010, 05:22:45 PM
I remember playing in the British Boys at Barrasie and someone telling me there used to be another course that was adjacent to it...anybody know of this?

Michael

I strongly suspect that they were referring to the original Dundonald course which was situated where the present Dundonald course is now sited. Like Barrasie it was/is to the east or land side of the railway. On the other side of the track you have Western Gailes. If I recall rightly there was a private 9 holer laid out on the course for some old retired general or such like. That was before either of the Gailes courses were built. The first was Glasgow Gailes in 1892 (?) which lies immediately to the north of the Dundonald site, then I think Western was next followed by Dundonald. Dundonald was laid out by Tulloch who was the Glasgow Gailes pro/greenkeeper. Tulloch eventually went to Dundonald as pro/greenkeeper, and indeed did so while laying out the revised Gailes course which he partly designed with Willie Park.

By all accounts an interesting guy who originally came from Elie (I think) and who reputedly gave James Braid his first golf lesson. Anyway the Dundonald course was one of the longest around when built and was a relatively flat links although highly rated. I know it struggled with the great depression but not sure when it fell into disuse.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 12, 2010, 06:58:47 PM
Our club annual dinner tonight provided a chance to chat with a couple of senior members.  The course Jonathan found was Benton Park GC, which to the best recollection of the senior members, moved in 1948 to become Arcott Hall GC.  Ironic, since this evenings grace reminded us to be thoughtfull of those less fortunate than us, particularly, in winter, members of Arcott Hall.

No-one has any recollection of Clairemont GC.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Robin_Hiseman on November 16, 2010, 12:42:12 PM
Mark

I can chip in with three notable NLE's.  The first is Bramshot GC, in Fleet, Hampshire, which is just a couple of miles or so from where I live currently.  By all accounts this was a very fine heather and pine course, borne out by the one photo i've seen of the par 3 10th hole, which looked really high class.  The site was abandoned pre-war to make way fror the Pyestock jet engine testing facility adjacent to Farnborough aerodrome, though they preserved the 10th tee, fully maintained, as a relic within the midst of the enormous factory site.  The club even used to have its own railway halt on the line between Fleet and Farnborough.  There is virtually nothing left of the course now.  Much of it was obliterated by the factory, which itself is shut down now and something of a monumental industrial relic.  It is still possible to locate where the clubhouse was and a few of the specimen trees around the old building remain to this day.  I thought I found an old tee in the middle of the woods when I was scoutnig around on my mountain bike a couple of summers ago.  I believe there are some old documents in our local library which I'm going to take a look at some day.  I'm very intersted in these NLE courses.

The second is Torrie House, to the west of Dunfermline, which was a James Braid designed 18-hole course, stretching to above 6,500 yards, Par 72.  There was talk about 10 years ago of resurrecting this course, which was just left to grow over sometime in the 50's I think.  I was invited to take a look at the site and several of the old green sites were easily identifiable, complete with grown in bunkers.  A fascinating place.

The final one is Langton Hall in Leicestershire.  This course was designed by Hawtree and opened for play in 1994, but it has gone again already.  I remember being sent out to measure the course for the course guide, in the company of one of the most beautiful girls I have ever met!  I played the course a couple of times, but there was never anybody there to collect a green fee!  Only 9 holes got built and they were pretty nice by all accounts, especially the holes set in the ancient park.  I'll try to add some images, when I can remember how.  If you go to Google Earth and find Church Langton, you can clearly see the outline of the brown, abandoned  USGA greens in the adjacent park!
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on November 16, 2010, 02:43:08 PM
Robin

Torrie House - I think I know the course. You pass it on the road from the Kincardine Bridge with the course on the right hand side ? I seem to recall looking at a google earth type picture a couple of years ago which seemed to show the holes around the house being back in play.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Marty Bonnar on November 16, 2010, 02:56:30 PM
...and about an 8-iron to the West of Torrie (on the other side of the road) was a 9-Holer in the grounds of Valleyfield House, the gardens of which were Humphrey Repton's only Scottish commission.
The house was also the early workplace of the young David Douglas of 'Douglas Fir' fame.
Fife is sooooo cool!
 ;D
FBD.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on November 16, 2010, 05:21:26 PM
Mark

I can chip in with three notable NLE's.  The first is Bramshot GC, in Fleet, Hampshire, which is just a couple of miles or so from where I live currently.  By all accounts this was a very fine heather and pine course, borne out by the one photo i've seen of the par 3 10th hole, which looked really high class.  The site was abandoned pre-war to make way fror the Pyestock jet engine testing facility adjacent to Farnborough aerodrome, though they preserved the 10th tee, fully maintained, as a relic within the midst of the enormous factory site.  The club even used to have its own railway halt on the line between Fleet and Farnborough.  There is virtually nothing left of the course now.  Much of it was obliterated by the factory, which itself is shut down now and something of a monumental industrial relic.  It is still possible to locate where the clubhouse was and a few of the specimen trees around the old building remain to this day.  I thought I found an old tee in the middle of the woods when I was scoutnig around on my mountain bike a couple of summers ago.  I believe there are some old documents in our local library which I'm going to take a look at some day.  I'm very intersted in these NLE courses.
 

Robin, Longhurst often refers to Bramshot as if it were one of the best of the ‘Pine and Heather’ brigade.  I would love to see what you find.  Good luck.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Melvyn Morrow on November 16, 2010, 05:41:53 PM


Pittenween Golf Course - is this lost and closed - is it Anstruthers but buy why different dates

Pittenween 5.08 1889

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p421/Melvyn_Hunter/TheScotsman5081889PittenweenGolfCourse-Closed.jpg)

Andtruthers 10.07.1889

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p421/Melvyn_Hunter/TheScotsmanArchives1071889AnstrutherGCProposedGolfCourse.jpg)

Any thoughts does not seem to be the same course or is it - can anyone find them both on Goggle Earth?

Melvyn
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 16, 2010, 06:15:48 PM
There used to be a course at Daviot in the Highlands. Does anyone have any information on that one?

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Robin_Hiseman on November 17, 2010, 03:52:42 AM
Robin

Torrie House - I think I know the course. You pass it on the road from the Kincardine Bridge with the course on the right hand side ? I seem to recall looking at a google earth type picture a couple of years ago which seemed to show the holes around the house being back in play.

Niall
Niall

I think that may be the private course designed by Mackenzie and Ebert.  it's very nearby, but there is nothing at Torrie House any more.  The Torrie House is immediately north of Torryburn and south of the A985.  The site is shown below...if the link works.  I can't get a preview either.

(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/jronimo/TorrieHouse.jpg)
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on November 17, 2010, 04:42:51 AM
I remember an old golf course footprint at Aviemore c1973, from memory it was 9 holes and had been disused for some time. I do clearely remember several cut & fill type greens though and individual holes were evident.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on November 17, 2010, 02:53:35 PM
Robin

Looking at your photo it looks abit like the site I'm talking about but the site I'm talking about is on the right as you come from Kincardine which would be about right, but it also definitely has old green and bunker sites in the fields that are currently under pasture. You can still see the shapes.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on November 17, 2010, 06:38:43 PM
Has google 1945 UK been extended... seems a lot more now than there was. St Andrews 1945 is there, I cant remember seeing it before.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Robin_Hiseman on November 18, 2010, 03:25:59 AM
Niall

Then we're very possibly talking about the same place.  The old shapes are still there.  It's just on the western fringe of Dunfermline, with a prominent set of standing stones visible from the road.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on November 18, 2010, 05:11:22 AM
Has google 1945 UK been extended... seems a lot more now than there was. St Andrews 1945 is there, I cant remember seeing it before.

Thanks Adrian,

Good source to go back and see the old Eden layout....
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 18, 2010, 06:06:40 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/markrowlinson/Misc2/Mirlees.jpg)

This is the site of the former Mirrlees Golf Club and the original home of Davenport GC which went on to become Stockport GC when it moved to Torkington.


Davenport Golf Club was instituted in December 1905 and golf began to be played at Woodsmoor early the following year.  Certainly the full nine holes were in play by that summer, according to an account of the opening of the new pavilion, carried in the Stockport Advertiser of July 20th 1906.  It mentions that the nine holes, played twice, were equal to a distance of three miles.  The course was popular with members and it was noted that two nights ‘are devoted to ladies, of whom there is a goodly number.’  George Orme, Captain of the Club, opened the pavilion in the absence, through illness, of the President, Henry Bell.  An exhibition match followed between two Disley players, named Sidebottom and Taylor.  They played the nine holes twice and on the first time round Sidebottom set a new course record of 41 (against a bogey of 40).  Taylor fared rather worse, coming to grief when he hit his ball into a hedge.  On the second round Taylor did better, scoring 42 to Sidebottom’s 45, and the match was halved on holes, but as the Advertiser records, ‘They would have done much better had they been acquainted with the course, which offers pitfalls to players unaccustomed to it'.   

The pavilion, which had been bought from the engineering firm of Boulton and Paul, was sold to Fulshaw Golf Club for £60 when Davenport moved to Torkington.  Fulshaw had been founded in 1907 following the relocation of Wilmslow Golf Club from this site in 1903.  Subsequently Fulshaw became Alderley Edge Golf Club and the pavilion served the club well until as recently as 1971.  As to the old course at Woodsmoor, when vacated by Davenport, it became the Mirrlees Golf Club and survived until 1988, vestiges of its fairways and green sites still being visible to the observant golfer’s eye on the approach to the railway bridge on Bramhall Moor Lane. 
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tom MacWood on November 18, 2010, 06:17:44 AM
Built on rugged sand dunes at Mablethorpe Willie Park-Jr thought St. Peters was going to be one of the great links and one of his best courses. I believe the course was only partially completed before the developers ran into financial difficulties. After WWI others tried to resurrect the project, but I don't believe the course was ever finished and playable.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Richard Phinney on November 18, 2010, 11:44:22 AM
Havent' had a chance to read the whole thread but the South links at Montrose went out of use after world war two.  It is very important historically, making up of Montrose's very first (and gigantic) goflilng ground, and later used for one of the first Ladies' golf courses. Also a favourite among the men in its different configurations, and at least part of it would have been used for a couple of the very first "open" golf tournaments.

There was also a private course at nearby Usan in the 19th century, but only know one reference to it...owned by Keith, a member of Montrose and R&A.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Paul_Turner on November 19, 2010, 08:40:55 AM
Mark

I can chip in with three notable NLE's.  The first is Bramshot GC, in Fleet, Hampshire, which is just a couple of miles or so from where I live currently.  By all accounts this was a very fine heather and pine course, borne out by the one photo i've seen of the par 3 10th hole, which looked really high class.  The site was abandoned pre-war to make way fror the Pyestock jet engine testing facility adjacent to Farnborough aerodrome, though they preserved the 10th tee, fully maintained, as a relic within the midst of the enormous factory site.  The club even used to have its own railway halt on the line between Fleet and Farnborough.  There is virtually nothing left of the course now.  Much of it was obliterated by the factory, which itself is shut down now and something of a monumental industrial relic.  It is still possible to locate where the clubhouse was and a few of the specimen trees around the old building remain to this day.  I thought I found an old tee in the middle of the woods when I was scoutnig around on my mountain bike a couple of summers ago.  I believe there are some old documents in our local library which I'm going to take a look at some day.  I'm very intersted in these NLE courses.!

Robin, I've seen old pics of Bramshot too and I agree it looked to be very nice.  I can't recall the original architect but Colt did redesign it.

There was an old heathland course next to Sunningdale.

Mark

Castle Bromwich was a Colt original, the club moved to Maxtoke.

Handcross and Sherborne are two others I'd like to find more on.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 19, 2010, 11:22:39 AM
Paul, You remind me that King's Norton sold and moved to a new site.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tom MacWood on November 19, 2010, 12:51:11 PM
Southdown and Hook Park designed by Campbell, Hutchison & Hotchkin are NLE. What about Romney Sands and Woolacombe Bay? And did I miss a mention of Addington-New?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on November 19, 2010, 01:11:05 PM
A well known one but no mention in this thread yet of the original Moor Allerton.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Melvyn Morrow on November 19, 2010, 01:28:58 PM

Broughty Ferry Ladies Club Barnhill Dundee
Crawford GC
Collieston Aberdeenshire
Denholm GC nr Hawick
Dornock (Crieff) GC
Kelvinside Glasgow
Killearn GC
Lonmay GC
St Leonards Girl School St Andrews
Port Erroll GC at Port Erroll
Uisguintuie GC Islay
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 19, 2010, 03:24:17 PM
A well known one but no mention in this thread yet of the original Moor Allerton.

Your right Mark. I do not know how I forgot about that one. It was opposite Moortown and the old clubhouse\beginning holes of Sandmoor GC. With Alwoodley right nextdoor aswell what a fabulous part of Leeds this must have been for the golfer (It is still not bad though)

The new Moor Allerton course was the first RTJ course in Britain if I am not mistaken.

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 22, 2010, 05:39:50 PM
Jon, The sad thing for Moortown is that it has had to alter the course (for the worse?) to take into account the housing built on former land of Moor Allerton and Sand Moor.

Generally, there are going to be hundreds of NLE courses or those that have relocated that I didn't notice in a few hours in a library not actually looking for this particular information. I never intended that my list should be definitive or exhaustive. However, it has generated a useful list of courses and perhaps we should pull them all together in some sort of form so that we can keep adding to the list. Our esteemed historian Christof Meister has done a lot of research into the NLE German courses, particularly those in the former DDR. Maybe we should try to establish a European list - some famous ones in France, not to mention the original Hague. But I don't claim any sort of propriety. Let's do it collectively.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 22, 2010, 05:51:42 PM
Mark,

the new holes at Moortown are not a patch on the old ones :-[. It reminds me of the alteration mad at Lindrick where the old 13th, a fabulously difficult par 4 was replaced with a very mediocre one,

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Neil_Crafter on November 22, 2010, 10:34:33 PM
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on November 23, 2010, 05:51:52 AM
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.

I'm at Moortown for the first time in the new year. What am I looking for, Neil?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: James Boon on November 23, 2010, 06:27:21 AM
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.

I'm at Moortown for the first time in the new year. What am I looking for, Neil?

Ally,

I was at Moortown a few weeks ago and have a draft photo tour essay at home, ready for posting in the next couple of days. I think I've worked out were the old holes were and which ones are new, but I can't work out why they felt they needed to make the changes? I'll hopefully get the thread posted soon but I'm obviously not going to stop it being discussed here  ;)

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 23, 2010, 11:11:15 AM
I remember playing at Moortown when the latest changes were being made (1999? 2000?) and the pro said that it was all because of the dangers of hitting balls into houses or gardens. It was rather sad to see vestiges of once proud holes returning to nature.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Neil_Crafter on November 23, 2010, 01:48:23 PM
Ally
You'll know it when you see it!

Will be interested in your thoughts post game. I did not play the course, just walked some of the holes with Nick Leefe on our way back to his house after playing Alwoodley - we primarily walked out so I could see Gibraltar and that took us along one or two of the "new" holes. You'll see for yourself.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on November 23, 2010, 03:53:35 PM
Yes, Moortown was forced to alter their course due to houses being hit by stray balls on two holes. These houses were built after the course was built and the residents who complained were not the original house owners. On another note, the original clubhouse at Moortown is in the trees behind the old 9th green (hole after Gibralter).

Jon
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: James Boon on November 24, 2010, 06:45:05 PM
The Derbyshire Golf Club NLE

I’ve found a bit more information regarding the Derbyshire Golf Club mentioned in Mark’s opening post, my interest being that the course was at one time located on the same piece of land that my house now sits.

In its time, the Derbyshire Golf Club was located at 3 different locations around Derby and had many members of stature from the local community, giving it the sort of history and heritage that mimics that of Notts Golf Club across the county border. But the Derbyshire Golf Club is no longer around and Derby hasn’t really got another course of such stature, but why?

The Derbyshire Golf Club was established in October 1892 and play was over a nine hole course located at Osmaston Hall. The Hall itself is now no longer existing but at the time it was in a state of some decay, but still would have given a great sense of grandeur as it was used as the clubhouse.

There were originally 120 members, with Hon W.M. Jervis as President and 21 vice presidents including notable locals such as Alfred Haslam and Herbert Strutt. Cost for membership was one guinea with annual subs of the same amount. By 1898 membership was up to 200 and the course was reputed to be one of the best in the Midlands.

However, only a year later new land at Littleover Common was obtained. The new course was also nine holes, with holes varying in length from 93 to 370 yards and hazards consisting principally of hedges! The professional and greenkeeper was Mr W. Hutchings, who hailed from Westward Ho and had been chief greenkeeper at the King's Norton Golf Club.

By 1900 membership was back up to 200 after originally falling to 150 after its move and by 1901 holes had been adapted to now range from 147 to 381 yards while the putting greens were of good size and always in good condition. By 1906, the course had been extended to 18 holes, with the longest hole recorded as being 470 yards long, with mention of ponds and ditches as well as hedges, as the main hazards. Also a road had to be crossed twice. At this time the entrance fee was still one guinea but annual subs had increased to two guineas.

The boundaries of the course where the borough boundary to the east, roughly the line of the current Manor Road, Uttoxeter Road to the north, Chain Lane to the west and the rear gardens of the houses in Littleover village along Burton Road. In the middle of the common, and hence the course, lay Rosson & Co cartridge filling works of 1892 (later a private house) where this dangerous process was undertaken in isolation from the marketplace gunsmiths. The borough water reservoir of 1907 and the Elms Farm Estate also found themselves partly surrounded by the links. One hazard to be played over was Littleover Brook, which ran down the north edge of the course, a hundred yards or so south of Uttoxeter Road and gradually converged with it. The club pavilion, mainly of timber construction and with a veranda, was situated between the present Bretton Avenue and Queen's Drive.
 
So though the course had a good reputation and an established membership, the problem was the clubs current location. The land was owned by the Stantons of Snelston Hall, who inherited it from the Harrisons who had bought much land in Littleover in the early 19th Century, and by the late 1920s they wanted to develop the land for housing. Being to the south west of an industrial city like Derby, meant they were upwind of the smoke from the industry’s chimneys. This meant the land was prime development land for the mid war suburbs that were spreading across the country.

In 1929, eminent architect Barry Parker laid out a large housing estate on Elms Farm, which included much of the golf course, with the Borough Council took the north edge for the City (now Derby Royal) Hospital in the same year.

It is not clear exactly when the club moved from Littleover, but there is reference to the club moving in March 1910 to a new site at Humbleton Farm in Mackworth. However, the southern course boundary was punctuated from the early 1920s by Middleton and Lawn Heads Avenues, and on the former can still be found a semi detached cottage with a small stone plaque in the common gable, entitled Golf Links Cottages (which were designed by designed by L. Fred Smith in 1923 - also the Littleover club chairman at the time) hinting that there was still some eveidence of golf being played in Littleover at the time of the cottages construction?

The 1910 move from Littleover to Mackworth was to a new course, 6,200 yards in length, that was laid out by Tom Williamson (he of Notts fame, and recently mentioned in Sean Arble’s tour of Coxmoor) and another "commodious" clubhouse was being built. Mr Hutchings continued to act as professional and greenkeeper. There is some reference to the clubhouse being used during the second world war as an army training base, but by this time the course had again been overtaken by the progress of the mid war housing boom, when the land was acquired by the Borough of Derby for the construction of the Mackworth housing estate. There is some reference to the club moving to Allestree but the club that currently exists there is a local municipal, and so there is now no evidence of The Derbyshire Golf Club.

I have found an article whih states that there were “no less than seven golf clubs extant in Derby between 1892 and 1948, of which only three survive”, one of which would likely be Markeaton Golf Club also mentioned in Mark’s opening post. 

In the 50s there was a golf course where the university is now situated, with the club house opposite the main drive on the eastern edge of Markeaton Park. It was frequented by Derby County players who had a base at what was until recently the Clovelly Hotel on Broadway.

Cheers,

James


Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmaston_Hall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Seale_Haslam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Strutt
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Ben Stephens on November 25, 2010, 05:35:56 AM
The Derbyshire Golf Club NLE

I’ve found a bit more information regarding the Derbyshire Golf Club mentioned in Mark’s opening post, my interest being that the course was at one time located on the same piece of land that my house now sits.

In its time, the Derbyshire Golf Club was located at 3 different locations around Derby and had many members of stature from the local community, giving it the sort of history and heritage that mimics that of Notts Golf Club across the county border. But the Derbyshire Golf Club is no longer around and Derby hasn’t really got another course of such stature, but why?

The Derbyshire Golf Club was established in October 1892 and play was over a nine hole course located at Osmaston Hall. The Hall itself is now no longer existing but at the time it was in a state of some decay, but still would have given a great sense of grandeur as it was used as the clubhouse.

There were originally 120 members, with Hon W.M. Jervis as President and 21 vice presidents including notable locals such as Alfred Haslam and Herbert Strutt. Cost for membership was one guinea with annual subs of the same amount. By 1898 membership was up to 200 and the course was reputed to be one of the best in the Midlands.

However, only a year later new land at Littleover Common was obtained. The new course was also nine holes, with holes varying in length from 93 to 370 yards and hazards consisting principally of hedges! The professional and greenkeeper was Mr W. Hutchings, who hailed from Westward Ho and had been chief greenkeeper at the King's Norton Golf Club.

By 1900 membership was back up to 200 after originally falling to 150 after its move and by 1901 holes had been adapted to now range from 147 to 381 yards while the putting greens were of good size and always in good condition. By 1906, the course had been extended to 18 holes, with the longest hole recorded as being 470 yards long, with mention of ponds and ditches as well as hedges, as the main hazards. Also a road had to be crossed twice. At this time the entrance fee was still one guinea but annual subs had increased to two guineas.

The boundaries of the course where the borough boundary to the east, roughly the line of the current Manor Road, Uttoxeter Road to the north, Chain Lane to the west and the rear gardens of the houses in Littleover village along Burton Road. In the middle of the common, and hence the course, lay Rosson & Co cartridge filling works of 1892 (later a private house) where this dangerous process was undertaken in isolation from the marketplace gunsmiths. The borough water reservoir of 1907 and the Elms Farm Estate also found themselves partly surrounded by the links. One hazard to be played over was Littleover Brook, which ran down the north edge of the course, a hundred yards or so south of Uttoxeter Road and gradually converged with it. The club pavilion, mainly of timber construction and with a veranda, was situated between the present Bretton Avenue and Queen's Drive.
 
So though the course had a good reputation and an established membership, the problem was the clubs current location. The land was owned by the Stantons of Snelston Hall, who inherited it from the Harrisons who had bought much land in Littleover in the early 19th Century, and by the late 1920s they wanted to develop the land for housing. Being to the south west of an industrial city like Derby, meant they were upwind of the smoke from the industry’s chimneys. This meant the land was prime development land for the mid war suburbs that were spreading across the country.

In 1929, eminent architect Barry Parker laid out a large housing estate on Elms Farm, which included much of the golf course, with the Borough Council took the north edge for the City (now Derby Royal) Hospital in the same year.

It is not clear exactly when the club moved from Littleover, but there is reference to the club moving in March 1910 to a new site at Humbleton Farm in Mackworth. However, the southern course boundary was punctuated from the early 1920s by Middleton and Lawn Heads Avenues, and on the former can still be found a semi detached cottage with a small stone plaque in the common gable, entitled Golf Links Cottages (which were designed by designed by L. Fred Smith in 1923 - also the Littleover club chairman at the time) hinting that there was still some eveidence of golf being played in Littleover at the time of the cottages construction?

The 1910 move from Littleover to Mackworth was to a new course, 6,200 yards in length, that was laid out by Tom Williamson (he of Notts fame, and recently mentioned in Sean Arble’s tour of Coxmoor) and another "commodious" clubhouse was being built. Mr Hutchings continued to act as professional and greenkeeper. There is some reference to the clubhouse being used during the second world war as an army training base, but by this time the course had again been overtaken by the progress of the mid war housing boom, when the land was acquired by the Borough of Derby for the construction of the Mackworth housing estate. There is some reference to the club moving to Allestree but the club that currently exists there is a local municipal, and so there is now no evidence of The Derbyshire Golf Club.

I have found an article whih states that there were “no less than seven golf clubs extant in Derby between 1892 and 1948, of which only three survive”, one of which would likely be Markeaton Golf Club also mentioned in Mark’s opening post. 

In the 50s there was a golf course where the university is now situated, with the club house opposite the main drive on the eastern edge of Markeaton Park. It was frequented by Derby County players who had a base at what was until recently the Clovelly Hotel on Broadway.

Cheers,

James


Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmaston_Hall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Seale_Haslam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Strutt


Boony,

This is interesting! - maybe you could revitalise 'The Derbyshire Golf Club' by getting together a serious group of Derby golfers :)
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: James Boon on November 25, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
Ben,

A nice idea but it looks like plans are already afoot by RAW to bring the Derbyshire name back to life...
http://www.rawgolfdesign.com/golf-course-design-projects.asp

Does anybody know anything about The Derbyshire mentioned which I imagine is being driven by DJ Russell due to his Derbyshire connections?

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 01, 2014, 06:12:38 AM
While doing a bit of research for a photo-tour of Manchester Golf Club at Hopwood, I chanced upon this fascinating website devoted to what we here call NLE courses.

http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/

It appears to be entirely the work of one man, John Llewellyn. Do you know him, Mark?

 If not, you probably ought to!    :)

Incidentally, the various Manchester Golf Clubs appear to have occupied at least four sites before settling at Hopwood.

Kersal Moor - Salford                  Closed c.1892
Broughton Park - Salford            Closed c.1962
Manley Park - Whalley Range      Closed c.1893
Trafford Park - a Harry Colt design of 1892 featured in Darwin's 'The Golf Courses of The British Isles' in 1910    Closed 1912

Some interesting photos of the Broughton Park course can be seen here.

http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/north-west/cheshire/513-manc-old-manchester-golf-club

Interestingly, despite reputedly being without a course from the late 19th century, it appears that The 'Old' Manchester Golf Club played at Broughton Park until the 1960's...

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 01, 2014, 06:52:27 AM
Lothianburn, next to the artificial ski-slope on the Edinburgh bypass was due to close yesterday.  I never played it but it seems to have been a Braid design originally.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on January 01, 2014, 09:59:09 AM
Mark

I've passed Lothianburn numerous times and thought it looked a brutal course to play, real mountain goat country. I understand the membership had recently dropped from 800 to 300 which necessitated the closure. I'd be interested to find out more as to why the lost so many members. I can't imagine it was purely because of the recession. Anyway lets not assume that just because the club has folded that the course will be redeveloped or more likely revert to pasture. It's entirely possible that an enterprising Adrian MacStiff type character might make a go of it on a commercial basis.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 01, 2014, 10:06:12 AM
Niall,

I too had driven past many times and had even skied next to it on the artificial ski slope next door.  I gather that the club next door (New Swanston?) had recently been improved and took members away.  It does seem to be an area with significant over supply.  Lothianburn always struck me as likely to be short and sporty.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 01, 2014, 11:54:47 AM
Here's a nice retrospective and photo-tour of Lothianburn by a former member;

http://scottishgolfcourses-allofthem.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/lothianburn-golf-club-closed-after-120.html

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adam Lawrence on January 01, 2014, 12:00:49 PM
While doing a bit of research for a photo-tour of Manchester Golf Club at Hopwood, I chanced upon this fascinating website devoted to what we here call NLE courses.

Incidentally, the various Manchester Golf Clubs appear to have occupied at least four sites before settling at Hopwood.

Kersal Moor - Salford                  Closed c.1892
Broughton Park - Salford            Closed c.1962
Manley Park - Whalley Range      Closed c.1893
Trafford Park - a Harry Colt design of 1892 featured in Darwin's 'The Golf Courses of The British Isles' in 1910    Closed 1912


Duncan - prompted by this post I went back and read Darwin's entry on Trafford Park. No mention of Colt from him, and it's inconceivable a course dating from 1892 could have been his work - he didn't become secretary at Rye, his first golfing post, until 1895. Or perhaps I should say, since nothing's totally inconceivable, if he'd been in Manchester in 1892, it would be his first ever design work. Where did you find this reference?

Adam
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 01, 2014, 03:22:09 PM
Adam,

I was waiting for someone to pick me up on that!

I got it from Adrian - except he dates it 10 years too EARLY

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49042.msg1108076.html#msg1108076

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on January 01, 2014, 04:10:40 PM
Duncan - That database has the date the club was formed. The architect is just the one that I found from another source, some clubs/courses, got moved or radically altered... I think I have a Donald Steel one from 1887!
I dont have Colt as the architect for Trafford Park though...it is blank...was Trafford Park originally Manchester?
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 01, 2014, 04:26:43 PM
Ah, that probably explains it then.

Manchester Golf Club was founded in 1882 in Manley Park and moved to Trafford Park in 1892. Your listing of Colt led me to believe that he had been involved at that time.

The club subsequently moved again to Hopwood in 1912 and commissioned Colt to design the new course.

I'm playing Hopwood for the first time tomorrow and hope to post a photo-tour of a course held in high esteem locally but almost totally ignored nationally.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adam Lawrence on January 01, 2014, 04:28:36 PM
I wonder who did design the Trafford Park course? Darwin was indeed quite complimentary about it, in a way he wasn't often about 1890s courses.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 01, 2014, 04:38:36 PM
Did anyone really 'design' golf courses prior to about 1900? I always kind of assumed that they were laid out almost at random by the founders of the club in question until the profession of golf course architect came into existence with Colt, Fowler, Park et al.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adam Lawrence on January 01, 2014, 04:48:59 PM
Varied I think. Certainly things were more flexible in those days, and the designers weren't spending months on a project, but at the same time I don't think it was quite as ad hoc as your description suggests, or not always anyway. To take one good example, Tom Dunn's 1893 routing for Woking survives largely intact, or rather the original course that was actually played does (the first plans of the Woking course show holes on the other side of Pond Road, but there's no evidence they were ever built).
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on January 01, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
I should post a list of all the clubs in the UK that I have no architect for? I think I should do it County by County.

Duncan - I 'think' what tended to happen was a group of golfers decide they had some land and wanted to form a course nearer to them and they hired someone for a day. There are plenty of pre 1900 courses that still generally have the hand of the original. There are plenty of Tom Morris', Willie Parks, Charlie Hunter did a few, The Dunnes.

Courses were shorter pre 1900, some only 9 holes so with the expansion of the game, there were changes made to courses by the Vardons, Taylors and Braids and Harry Colt. Adding a block of land of 20-30 acres for 4 or 5 new holes sometimes means significant changes for 9 or more holes, so I suspect thats how those names tended to get added as they sort of did the major work.

I have made some additions to some courses. I added 4 new holes at Wells in a new block of land (those holes were clearly mine) I abandoned a couple of short holes and combined them with another so perhaps 7 were mine. Hawtree is the name that did the original. The committee did a few holes early 70s, so I reckon only the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 10th, 17th and 18th are Hawtree's and two of those greens have been moved and the 17th was scheduled for a rebuild. The club produced its history about 10 or so years ago and yet there is no mention of my work or any architect other than Hawtrees doing the original course. Some clubs just dont care. It is a problem to know who designed what even in today's age, I reckon its about 40% mine and certainly dont claim it as a course, but it is really hard to know who did what at most UK courses because almost all of them have been to the doctors a couple of times.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Niall C on January 02, 2014, 07:20:13 AM
Did anyone really 'design' golf courses prior to about 1900? I always kind of assumed that they were laid out almost at random by the founders of the club in question until the profession of golf course architect came into existence with Colt, Fowler, Park et al.

Duncan

Consider yourself very lucky that Melvyn no longer posts on here !

No doubt golf course architecture moved on as golf moved into the 20th century however that's not to say that pre 1900 they didn't design with certain objectives and principles in mind, some of which carried over to the golden age boys.

For instance MacKenzie talked of leaving room to extend holes by taking the tee back which is something he could have copied from Old Tom.

Niall
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on January 02, 2014, 07:36:34 AM
Did anyone really 'design' golf courses prior to about 1900? I always kind of assumed that they were laid out almost at random by the founders of the club in question until the profession of golf course architect came into existence with Colt, Fowler, Park et al.

Duncan

Consider yourself very lucky that Melvyn no longer posts on here !

No doubt golf course architecture moved on as golf moved into the 20th century however that's not to say that pre 1900 they didn't design with certain objectives and principles in mind, some of which carried over to the golden age boys.

For instance MacKenzie talked of leaving room to extend holes by taking the tee back which is something he could have copied from Old Tom.

Niall


Melvyn set out some of his views here.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/the-early-golf-designers-the-real-golden-age-by-melvyn-hunter-morrow/

This was followed up a few months later by the late Tom MacWood

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/in-my-opinion-the-early-architects-beyond-old-tom-by-tom-macwood/

There was also some lively threads following each.

Safe to say that it is wrong to simply state that all courses were laid out on the “18 stakes on a Sunday” basis, prior to 1900.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 02, 2014, 01:02:15 PM

Duncan

Consider yourself very lucky that Melvyn no longer posts on here !


Funnily enough Melvyn and I have been carrying on a very helpful email correspondence over the last couple of days stemming from this thread.  He hasn't picked me up on those comments which were not entirely serious.

Interesting that Melvyn is obviously still an active lurker...



...take care what you say, boys!  :D

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 02, 2014, 01:39:51 PM
As always Melvyn has been incredibly generous with information.  I received a number of newspaper articles regarding Lothianburn.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 03, 2014, 07:17:43 AM
I wonder who did design the Trafford Park course? Darwin was indeed quite complimentary about it, in a way he wasn't often about 1890s courses.

It looks like it was George Lowe, the pro at St Annes (Royal Lytham) who laid out the Trafford Park course.

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/ManchesterTraffordParkManCourampLanGA1521898P2001_zpsbef6bd74.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/ManchesterTraffordParkManCourampLanGA1521898P2001_zpsbef6bd74.jpg.html)

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/ManchesterTraffordParkManCourampLanGA1521898P1001_zpsd942bd42.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/ManchesterTraffordParkManCourampLanGA1521898P1001_zpsd942bd42.jpg.html)

Thanks to Melvyn You-Know-Who for sending me those from the Manchester Courier of 15.2.1898

Lowe has some impressive courses to his name, notably Royals Lytham and Birkdale, but he appears little remembered outside the North-West.

http://www.eigca.org/article/eigca11147.ink




Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on January 04, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
And most clubs founded in the north-west in the 1880s and 90s adopted the rules of Royal Lytham as well as inviting its professional to lay out a course for them. Most were called 'links' even though there soil was anything but.

Thanks for dragging this to the top. I'm grateful for Adrian's new posts.
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Sean_A on January 05, 2014, 07:07:03 AM
Ah, that probably explains it then.

Manchester Golf Club was founded in 1882 in Manley Park and moved to Trafford Park in 1892. Your listing of Colt led me to believe that he had been involved at that time.

The club subsequently moved again to Hopwood in 1912 and commissioned Colt to design the new course.

I'm playing Hopwood for the first time tomorrow and hope to post a photo-tour of a course held in high esteem locally but almost totally ignored nationally.

Duncan

I've been meaning to make it up to Machester for a good few years.  Where is that tour?

Ciao
Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on January 05, 2014, 12:58:44 PM

Duncan

I've been meaning to make it up to Machester for a good few years.  Where is that tour?

Ciao

On hold, I'm afraid.

I played Hopwood on Thursday on a bright winter's day with high hopes of getting some great pics; unfortunately following torrential rain over the previous few days the greens were waterlogged and we were on temps. The wisdom of this decision was brought home to me on one hole when my errant pitch landed on the green proper - and promptly disappeared an inch undergound!

Hopwood really impressed me though, and I can't wait to return in more favourable condituions. If you can imagine Cavendish on steroids you will get an idea of what to expect. The moorland terrain is very similar but the scale is immense - rarely do you even see more than one hole at a time as the course weaves its way across a full 250 acres. The only minus points to my mind were too many blind tee-shots and one incredibly artificial short hole green site.

The whole set-up at Hopwood oozes quality, but is obviously under-appreciated. Current green fees are £20 or £70 for a four-ball!

Name the date and I'll meet you there!

Title: Re: UK courses no longer in existence
Post by: Jon Wiggett on January 05, 2014, 01:54:23 PM
Its been a few years since I played Hopwood but I recall it as being a challenging course especially in a stiff breeze as it is quite exposed. I would think it is well worth driving out of your way to play.

Jon