Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Kyle Henderson on July 14, 2009, 03:10:59 AM
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FYI: My other pictorial threads from this trip can be viewed at the following links:
Royal Dornoch http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40107.0/
Brora http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40120.0/
Golspie http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40126.0/
The Castle Course http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40204.0/
Murcar http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40281.0/
Crail: Craigshead & Balcombie http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40325.0/
Lundin Links http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40387.0/
Muirfield http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40439.0/
Cruden Bay http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40565.0/
Gleneagles - Kings Course http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40675.0/
St. Andrews - Old Course http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40696.0/
Gullane #1 & #2 http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41085.0/
Panmure http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41122.0/
Gleneagles - Queens Course http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41152.0/
Kingsbarns http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41184.0/
Royal Aberdeen - Balgownie Links http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41498.0/
Carnoustie – Championship Course http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41834.0/
North Berwick - West Links http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42104.0/
*not featured: Nairn, Eden, New, Castle Stuart (tour)
Thanks to an (as always) excellent review of Cruden Bay that was recently posted compliments of Ran Morrisett and Co., I am withholding detailed personal commentary of the course. Generally, I enjoyed CB very much. While it may be quite as interesting around the greens as Royal Dornoch or provide the balanced and measured test of golf administered by Carnoustie of Muirfield’s “championship” courses, every hole is eminently memorable, scenic and engaging. It’s certainly photogenic!!! The only real complaints one is likely to hear concern the “goofy finishing holes,” particularly the bathtub 14th green, blind par 3 15th and semi-blind par 3 16th. It seems that wheels are in motion to “correct” these issues, details of which are discussed at the following link:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=22594.0
While that sequence is certainly not “ideal,” it is both unique and exacting – it’s also probably harder to improve upon than one might think. I can only hope that the changes prove themselves worthy. The “new" 13th hole is currently shaped and partially grasses (see photos below). I’m curious to see what becomes of the old 14-16. As the course stands now, it undoubtedly passes my “could play it every day and never grow weary of it” test.
Now for the “meat.”
First, compliments of the venerable Melvin Hunter Morrow, a few morsels of history:
“The first sketch shows the plan of Port Erroll with the new station, hotel and site of the new course. I have rather crudely shown the original course which according to the report was part covered by the new station in 1895.” – MHM
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3719755406_ccce8de841_b.jpg)
“The second sketch shows the 1896 course before the requirement for the 9 hole St Olaf’s. Note the changes to made to the first Cruden Bay course to accommodate the new 9 hole. Both courses opened in 1899.” -MHM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3719755302_d4a7a7723c_b.jpg)
Relatively current routing, though a new 13th hole (a par 3 going straight towards the sea) is almost complete beyond the current 12th green and 13th tees at the bottom of the map.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/3719755344_60754d305a_b.jpg)
Second, a ridiculous number of photos from my 36 holes played on the first of June, 2009.
A panoramic view looking down the 1st hole (par 4, 415 yards), the 2nd beyond and the St. Olaf course running through patches of gorse on the right. Slains Castle sits on the horizon.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3705796541_640298605e_b.jpg)
Panning right over the 1st tee, 18th green, St. Olaf course and the 5th green and 6th fairway running south along the distant dunes.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2639/3706607344_e63584eba2_b.jpg)
… and right again to gaze at the 6thgreen, 7th hole turing towards the coast, and 17th coming back towards the club house.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2624/3706607380_b145e943e4_b.jpg)
Looking past the 1st green to the 2nd hole (par 4, 346 yards).
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/3705796759_50b3308278_b.jpg)
A short but testing approach to the 2nd green and a threesome ahead on the 3rd tee.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3705796809_c1c5d94289_b.jpg)
The tee shot for the 3rd hole (par 4, 274 yards)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2423/3706607532_c01b868873_b.jpg)
… and the approach to the 3rd green over the crest of fairway.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3706607684_a73d9cd244_b.jpg)
The gorgeous 4th (par 3, 195 yards) across the waterway from Port Erroll.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/3706607848_b984ed4999_b.jpg)
The 5th hole(par 4, 455 yards) stretching away from the middle tees parallel to the shore.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/3706607954_d0a24d017a_b.jpg)
A view of the 5th from left of the fairway around 300 yards out.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2631/3706608124_cf4d0e66c0_b.jpg)
The obligatory posterior view of yours truly as I watch my tee shot fade a bit too far the right on the 6th (par 5, 525 yards).
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/3705797595_8e30f68712_b.jpg)
The last 150 yards of the 6th as seen from left of the fairway.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3495/3706608484_2537a342ef_b.jpg)
A short approach to the 6th from the right edge of the fairway.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2612/3705797867_6d6bf32f09_b.jpg)
The 7th (par 4, 380 yards) fairway wraps left around the prominent dune…
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/3706608794_fbd97d9aaa_b.jpg)
… and up to an elevated green site.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3706608962_f658e3875f_b.jpg)
A look back down the 7th to the gargantuassive clubhouse.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/3705798331_49c6f16fd4_b.jpg)
The 8th hole (par 4, 257 yards), heading south again. The 9th tees are up to the left on the top of the flattened, gorse-covered hill.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3706609172_526391a8f2_b.jpg)
A look back down the 8th, the 16th green short and right of the shelter shack, the 7th green long and left.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/3705798657_5c3dc8de9d_b.jpg)
From the 9th tee, looking west over the 8th green to the inland fields.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3433/3706609522_d5e558d469_b.jpg)
… and north over the starting and finishing holes of the course.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2629/3706609696_356849b4c4_b.jpg)
… and south down the 9th hole (par 4, 452 yards) running on top of the hawklaw.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/3705799241_af599510fc_b.jpg)
Peeking west again over the inland grape seed fields.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3706610212_23332e6416_b.jpg)
The 9th green approach
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3626/3705799365_a7f4044bf1_b.jpg)
Looking north from the 10th tee over the 13th and 14th holes.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3706651008_b9e91f2c7c_b.jpg)
… then south over the 13th fairway, 11th green and 12th hole.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2614/3706651054_06fdd146c2_b.jpg)
… and a bit further inland to see the 10th (par 4, 380 yards).
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3706651106_921a7395f5_b.jpg)
The 11th (par 3, 147 yards).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3517/3705840231_f2847c3ea3_b.jpg)
A closer view of the perils awaiting shots that miss short and/or right of the 11thor way left of the 10th fairway.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/3705840393_4048aa2344_b.jpg)
The 12th (par 4, 311 yards) from the tee
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/3706651422_01878e41d2_b.jpg)
…and from behind (taken from the “new 13th” tee).
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3706651586_01d7fd6341_b.jpg)
The fledgling “new 13th” will probably be played with a mid- to long iron by most amateurs players.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3706651756_a96c340d3b_b.jpg)
The stellar 13th (par 5, 543 yards)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3705841037_c794db1b76_b.jpg)
Tee shots may flirt with this burn (which also crosses the 10th and 11th) when the winds are helping, though a mighty blast of 330 yards is required to reach it.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/3706652068_fd3a15ca3d_b.jpg)
A lay up to the left will open up the 13th green perched diagonally between a small hillock on the right and a rather larger slope to the left.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3502/3705841369_596d60f086_b.jpg)
Try not to be short and right of 13th green.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3706652370_04f3d170f4_b.jpg)
The 14th (par 4, 389 yards)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3706652492_dd082ce206_b.jpg)
The sunken 14th green and vulnerable 15th tee.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3706652590_922830650f_b.jpg)
Looking down the line of the blind par 3 15th (236 yards! though most will play it from 191).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3705841837_b62d916bbf_b.jpg)
15th beach view
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3706652922_c760238210_b.jpg)
The 16th (par 3, 180 yards) is played over the 15th, requiring that a bell be rung after players tee off on #16 to signal the go ahead for the group behind.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2635/3706653064_012271c8e2_b.jpg)
Another overview of the 15th and 16th greens from the 9th tee.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2581/3705842291_677027a2c6_b.jpg)
The 17th (par 4, 424 yards).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3706653370_53d93723d9_b.jpg)
The hump in the middle of the 17th fairway (runs from ~170-130 yards from the green)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2472/3706653460_ce7c93af77_b.jpg)
A swale complicates the approach to the 17th green.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3705842733_26ef5f08b7_b.jpg)
Looking back down the17th.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/3705842887_7a81a3f68e_b.jpg)
A view from right of the 18th (par 4, 416 yards)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2573/3705843019_c4ea410ee1_b.jpg)
Long drives will tumble to the lower right portion of the 18th fairway.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3705843119_6699c08468_b.jpg)
Bellissima!
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Great pics Kyle. Which hole will be removed from the course when the new 13th comes into play?
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Great pics Kyle. Which hole will be removed from the course when the new 13th comes into play?
Supposedly the 15th is doomed. :P
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Great pics Kyle. Which hole will be removed from the course when the new 13th comes into play?
Supposedly the 15th is doomed. :P
Good. Stupid hole. I don't have a problem with 14 or 16 which also get flack (in fact I think 16 is a rather good hole) but 15 is proof that quirk needn't be good.
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OMG, that looks freaking good!
Cruden Bay is somehow one of these courses that you don't see a lot of pictures of, I only knew 5-6 holes, and I 'm surprised by the variety. your photos are GREAT... Thank you!!!
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Kyle
I was expecting the usual good quality photos that you have been so kind to share with us all. However, I must say that your Cruden Bay photos are absolutely excellent.
They clearly show why Port Erroll was originally chosen by the Railway Company to set up their Resort Complex. To think it continued to thrive up to the Wall Street Crash, which brought many great places and names down.
I love this stretch of coastline, your photos certainly do it justice. For your information about 4-6 miles south along the beach you will encounter a small fishing town called Collieston, which was owned by the same family who also owned Askernish, then went on to buy out the Earl of Erroll estates (circa 1896) in Aberdeenshire. At Collieston they also built a 9 hole course in 1900 which survived until WW2 when the Deserts Rats took over the area for tank training destroying the course in the process. With the help of locals, we believe we have found the original site of the course, just south of the village.
I believe they are your best set of photographs yet – many thanks for sharing them with us.
Melvyn
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Kyle
Just checking my files and note that we may have a couple of similar pictures. You have a photo of the little bridge at Port Erroll your photo No.8; I have a copy of a sketch (see below). Seems more or less unchanged, apart from extra supports around the base of the bridge, not bad considering the sketch dates from the mid 1890’s. The other is the beach itself your photo No. 24 compares fairly well to the top sketch.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p421/Melvyn_Hunter/PortErrol1896.jpg)
I will e-mail you a 1890’s course map of Aberdeen GC The Balgownie Links as of 1896. Total length was then 3 Miles 47 yards (out 2673 back 2654 yds). A Ladies course also existed but not included, however you many note that the North Sea seemed to then be named German Ocean – new one on me.
Melvyn
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Kyle,
What took you so long? Love the pics. My favorite course in the world because of playability and variety. Stunning beuty. Did you get a chance to visit with Ally?
Anthony
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Kyle, with such a glorious looking day and magnificent course, how in the world were you able to convince yourself to come home!
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Great pictures Kyle. Your photos keep getting better and better. You did have a very photogenic subject though in Cruden Bay!
Do you know what will become of the 15th. Is it to be expunged permanently or just used sparingly with the new 13th as a relief hole? I must say I would be sorry to see it go. For me it sums up all that is quirky about CB. Then again I may have a soft spot for it as, having played the hole twice, I have yet to take more than 3 ;)
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The stellar 13th (par 5, 543 yards)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3705841037_c794db1b76_b.jpg)
Tee shots may flirt with this burn (which also crosses the 10th and 11th) when the winds are helping, though a mighty blast of 330 yards is required to reach it.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/3706652068_fd3a15ca3d_b.jpg)
The 13th is stellar indeed but what a beast when the wind is not helping. Last year a group of GCAers played a pre Buda round at CB in the Hawklaw Tankard. Off the back tee into the teeth of a very strong wind my well struck (for me) drive didn't even reach the fairway. A reasonably struck 3 wood followed and that pulled up just short of the burn in your second picture which, as you (correctly) point out, could be in reach from the tee with a following wind.
The beauty of links golf, two different courses on the same ground when the wind changes direction.
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I think the 13th played at 580 yards in the Hawklaw Tankard. I hit my drive as well as I possibly could and failed to reach. Like Andrew I was short of the burn in two and had to think long and hard about laying up short in three. I believe the wind was up to about 40 mph that day. I seem to recall Joe Fairey (who hits a good ball and can really play) describing it as the best par 7 he has ever made on the Saturday.
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Isn't the 15th part of what makes CB great. CB does not follow all the rules of ideal golf design. That is part of its charm.
Anthony
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Isn't the 15th part of what makes CB great. CB does not follow all the rules of ideal golf design. That is part of its charm.
Anthony
No. It's a very poor golf hole. 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are great, 13 is great. 14 is wonderfully quirky. 16 is great (but borderline). 15 is just rubbish.
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Mark,
What makes it bad? Blindness? Length?
Anthony
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Kyle - thanks for the photos, agree with others they are top notch.
When I die I want to come back as Cruden Bay. It has absolutely everything I could ever want in a golf course. And I've never been there.
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The only real complaints one is likely to hear concern the “goofy finishing holes,” particularly the bathtub 14th green, blind par 3 15th and semi-blind par 3 16th. It seems that wheels are in motion to “correct” these issues, details of which are discussed at the following link:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=22594.0
To me these "goofy" holes are a large part of what I found so compelling about Cruden Bay and I am saddened to hear that the club will go forward with the "correction." I'll concede that the blind par 3 15th is not everyone's (or most golfers') cup of tea. Whatever shortcomings it has, I think it is par preferable to the "new" 13th, which based on the below picture looks to be quite the pedestrian affair.
The fledgling “new 13th” will probably be played with a mid- to long iron by most amateurs players.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3706651756_a96c340d3b_b.jpg)
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Kyle,
What took you so long? Love the pics. My favorite course in the world because of playability and variety. Stunning beuty. Did you get a chance to visit with Ally?
Anthony
Frankly, I had a rediculous number of photos to sort through and label, hence the delay. These presentations take quite a bit of time, but it feels good to share my experiences with like-minded architecture nerds and to distill my memories into something more packaged and easy to recall.
Ally was very busy, but he did take time to stop in while I was having lunch between rounds and again when I was waiting on the 7th tee in the afternoon (BTW Ally, I did carry all of the junk and reach the fairway, leaving a very short approach ;) ) He had the course in pretty good shape, though the greens were sanded not long before my visit. "Anthony Gray International Golf Course" is in good hands!
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Fantastic photos Kyle.
The stretch between 3-7 is one of the best in Scotland IMO. I think both par 5s on the course are particularly good.
Regarding the new 13 vs the old 15, I'm somewhat torn. I certainly appreciate the quirk of 15 but I didn't find it to be that great a hole. 16 isn't that good either IMO and the combination of these two par 3s probably leads me to say the new 13th will make the course better. I actually think the new 13th, though somewhat out of character with the rest of the course, will be well received. It's a beautiful spot for a golf hole and will be plenty challenging with any of the typical wind blowing there.
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Kyle
I was expecting the usual good quality photos that you have been so kind to share with us all. However, I must say that your Cruden Bay photos are absolutely excellent.
I believe they are your best set of photographs yet – many thanks for sharing them with us.
Melvyn
I think the course did most of the work. The sunlight also helped. I wish I'd had time to stick around and shoot a bit more around sunset. The weather that day was picture perfect.
Thank you for the kind words and for sending me so many interesting historical tid bits!
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Out of curiosity, for those that think the 15th at Cruden Bay an atrocity, how does the Dell hole at Lahinch compare?
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The new hole does look a little too "modern" for CB. I say keep the 15th as is. It is unique and so "old school".
Anthony
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If I were to close my eyes and imagine my perfect golf course, it would look very similar to those pictures of Cruden Bay.
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If I were to close my eyes and imagine my perfect golf course, it would look very similar to those pictures of Cruden Bay.
Dan,
Well put. I do it all the time.
Anthony
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To touch a single hair on the head of that golf course is a profanity upon the game and anyone who lends a hand in this atrocity should be executed by firing squad.
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To touch a single hair on the head of that golf course is a profanity upon the game and anyone who lends a hand in this atrocity should be executed by firing squad.
It is an awesome and very special place.
Anthony
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15 is part of the soul of CB and certainly a big part of what defines her. What's not to like? So the shot is blind..it's not like most of us hit what we CAN see from 200 yards 90% of the time anyway.
For me it was quite a thrill to stand on that tee, overhanging the dunes and the cool 14th green, and wondering if my slightly pulled shot would somehow find safety around the bend. It didn't, but that didn't diminish the coolness of the moment. I like 16 a lot too, and I think that it's relationship with 15 helps. Without it's sibling I'm afraid it will suffer. Sort of like splitting conjoined twins.
The sheer majesty of that course puts it in rare company. Kyle's pics do it great justice.
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Kyle, Did you have time to knock it around the St Olaf Nine? I rather enjoyed it!
Amazing camera shots. Was Tom Simpson on fire when he worked Cruden!
An inspiring place.
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I had a pretty rough day today but Gib's line about Bill and now this from El Capitan and Melvyn has brightened up the day considerably.
Kyle / Melvyn,
What a day for you guys to score on such great conditions and at CB no less. Unbelievable! Thanks for sharing.
Kyle,
If the day job and KP organizing falls through ... you can always become a course photographer. Good stuff.
I agree with SPDB, Gib, and co. to not change a thing. The place seems pretty damn cool to me.
The 14th is not that quirky when you think about Prestwick's 17th (e.g. the infamous Alps hole). Blind approach and in this case at CB protected by the deep depressions short and long to the hole along with that right bunker. If anything, the hole builds anticipation after the sweet 13th.
Maybe the back to back blindness of the 14th and 15th is why there's such initial criticism? I mean the 15th at over 200 yards is indeed a handful. But wow what a vista when you come into that 15th green. Something else for sure.
I better head over there before it's too late.
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Kyle, Did you have time to knock it around the St Olaf Nine? I rather enjoyed it!
Amazing camera shots. Was Tom Simpson on fire when he worked Cruden!
An inspiring place.
I did not play the St Olaf, though it looked like a fun little course. I left Aberdeen very early, played 36 holes on the big course at Cruden Bay and then sped down to St. Andrews to take in the Friday night festivities.
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I had a pretty rough day today but Gib's line about Bill and now this from El Capitan and Melvyn has brightened up the day considerably.
Kyle / Melvyn,
What a day for you guys to score on such great conditions and at CB no less. Unbelievable! Thanks for sharing.
Kyle,
If the day job and KP organizing falls through ... you can always become a course photographer. Good stuff.
I agree with SPDB, Gib, and co. to not change a thing. The place seems pretty damn cool to me.
The 14th is not that quirky when you think about Prestwick's 17th (e.g. the infamous Alps hole). Blind approach and in this case at CB protected by the deep depressions short and long to the hole along with that right bunker. If anything, the hole builds anticipation after the sweet 13th.
Maybe the back to back blindness of the 14th and 15th is why there's such initial criticism? I mean the 15th at over 200 yards is indeed a handful. But wow what a vista when you come into that 15th green. Something else for sure.
I better head over there before it's too late.
I did not have the pleasure of Melvyn's company. Rather, I have the pleasure of receiving his treasures from his trove of historical documents and basking in his knowledge of golf's roots via the internet. The weather was entirely mine to enjoy that day.
Thank you for the compliments. I'm thinking about getting a real camera, as my little handicam struggles mightily when the ambient lighting isn't nearly perfect, but I doubt I'll go pro.
I too think that CB should probably not abandon the 15th entirely, especially as the new 13th doesn't impress me much. However, the current 15th tee is very much in the line of fire next to the 14th green.
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15 is part of the soul of CB and certainly a big part of what defines her. What's not to like? So the shot is blind..it's not like most of us hit what we CAN see from 200 yards 90% of the time anyway.
For me it was quite a thrill to stand on that tee, overhanging the dunes and the cool 14th green, and wondering if my slightly pulled shot would somehow find safety around the bend. It didn't, but that didn't diminish the coolness of the moment. I like 16 a lot too, and I think that it's relationship with 15 helps. Without it's sibling I'm afraid it will suffer. Sort of like splitting conjoined twins.
The sheer majesty of that course puts it in rare company. Kyle's pics do it great justice.
I think it would be fun if they turfed the left/front dune to allow players the option of trying to run their ball down that slope onto the green. Thoughts?
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Kyle,
I think I've mentioned this to you before, but you seem to capture shots from angles not yet seen by these eyes. All of the pictorals have at least 2-3 angles of certain holes that create a different perspective from what is normally seen. By doing so, you have created another element of study for these wonderful courses. The previous statement is not limited to your recent work.
Thanks for that.
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Kyle,
I think I've mentioned this to you before, but you seem to capture shots from angles not yet seen by these eyes. All of the pictorals have at least 2-3 angles of certain holes that create a different perspective from what is normally seen. By doing so, you have created another element of study for these wonderful courses. The previous statement is not limited to your recent work.
Thanks for that.
Wyatt,
I said the same thing about Kyle's Bandon photos. It has to take him off his game to hit a shot and then run to a different area and take a photo from a unique angle, then run back to his ball. He does sacrifice when taking us on these photo tours. It is greatly appreciated.
Anthony
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It's not the blindness that I object to. It's the combination of the length, the fact you can't miss left, right or short without probably losing a ball, the fact that for weaker players (or good ones in a strong prevailing wind) there's no bail out all combined with the blindness. I love Cruden Bay but it can only be improved by losing 15. My view might change if the deep rough on the dunes on eitehr side was cut down, so balls wouldn't be lost.
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Kyle,
I think I've mentioned this to you before, but you seem to capture shots from angles not yet seen by these eyes. All of the pictorals have at least 2-3 angles of certain holes that create a different perspective from what is normally seen. By doing so, you have created another element of study for these wonderful courses. The previous statement is not limited to your recent work.
Thanks for that.
[/qu ;)ote]
Wyatt,
I said the same thing about Kyle's Bandon photos. It has to take him off his game to hit a shot and then run to a different area and take a photo from a unique angle, then run back to his ball. He does sacrifice when taking us on these photo tours. It is greatly appreciated.
Anthony
Unless, of course, I happen to play military golf (left, right, left) anyways...
Truthfully, at Bandon I was playing with my parents. My mother hits about 4 shtos for each of mine, so the meandering photography trail helped to distract me from the long spaces of time. I never play well when I stand over my ball for 10 minutes waiting for my turn. I played as a single in the afternoon at Cruden Bay, following a packed course, hence the angles.
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Kyle, thanks for taking the time to put the photo tour together. I'm new here. Threads like this are why I joined.
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Wow... wow... this might just be clearly better than St Enodoc. My travel itinerary for August 2010 has just changed.
Ulrich
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I really need to get up to Aberdeen ASAP!
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I wanted to provide a short follow-up to yet another excellent tour from Kyle.
I was there Sunday for the first time since about 2009 and had a great tour of new changes they have been through from their Captain. It was a blowy one so tough to hold the camera straight.
There have been major changes to the 9th and 10th holes which are absolutely wonderful. These holes were IMO the weakest links of the course without having an argument about the relative merits of the blind par 3, 15th which has it's obvious backers and people that just can't accept it.
The 9th has seen huge improvements, a major change of to the line of play from the medal tee which has been moved to the top of the hill. The view from the tee box alone is an appropriate reward for making the climb up from the 8th green.
[size=78%]
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/9027/KHvEkJ.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/4858/3b4cvH.jpg)
The new tee shot replaces the slightly blind and dull tee shot of the past. the angle also offers great improvement in the tee shot IMO.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/179/zTB734.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/6489/Zxmv4R.jpg)
In the past the top of this hill was totally covered in mature "old growth" gorse. Removing it really opened up this hole to new "higher" possibilities.
The new infinity green is also a welcome addition to the improvements made on this hole, not too mention it was moved back to the clifftop.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/9321/HygL8T.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/1047/YjjT7B.jpg)
the 10th tee shot use to be to the left and back a bit from where this green lies. If you look back at Kyle's photos you can see that it was a straight and dull shot where the only really challenge was for the longest hitters to contemplate if they wanted to take on the burn and try to carry it. The advantage of doing so in the author's eye was negligent as it left a 1/2 to 3/4 club approach when laying back with a nice tee shot would allow for a full swing with a gap/P or 9 to a green that you would much rather have a full swing at.
The new 10th has managed to improve the hole in several ways. It has brought in a vertical angle come at the fairway from just right of the new 9th green. Not only does the angle work far better to make the tee shot interesting it makes you think a lot more about club choice and how much you think you can cut off to the right. Two strategically placed bunkers add to the dilemma off the tee.
Furthermore there were considerable safety issues that have been resolved with he movement of the patch down the hill which is much less steep from the current angle. The old path down the bluff must of been scary for older members in the winter months to say the least.
All in all a wonderful improvement.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/9011/6aXpTh.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/990/uiJA4f.jpg)
This is one of my favorite burns I've ever run into on a golf course...just as a side note. Simply love it.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3962/5RSw2N.jpg)
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A couple other updates from Kyle's excellent tour.
There was some talk of a new 13th hole but this never did happen. The short par 3 additional hole apparently had some issues with the green which kept collapsing and has not really every been put in play according to what I was told. It was there but clearly not kept up in terms of maintenance.
That means the blind par 3, 15th love it or hate it has remained. I would find it such a shame if this wonderful quirky hole was ever changed.
There have been some significant changes to the par 3, 16th hole which unfortunately my photo of ended up too blurry to show. Basically what they have done was lower the mound on the right hand side which allows a much better view of the green and this is of great use in this case with the prevailing wind blowing left to right slightly against you.
The last very important point to mention is that the club has been experiencing severe troubles with the 8th hole green. I've always though of the 8th hole as a very iconic hole at Cruden Bay. Right now they are contemplating changing this and moving the green back out from behind the major dune on the right had side because it does not receive enough light and in the winter is in the shade much of the time.
I for one sure hope they find a solution that doesn't require them to move that green. I love that hole and find it super unique, to move the green back out of the shade there transform this into a par 3 would in my view create a strange break in the routing. Not too mention significantly lengthen the walk up to the 9th tee.
I'm talking by the way about this hole:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/8868/xJPpgB.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/2184/UXu14i.jpg)
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David
Thanks for giving us the photos of the new work up at CB. Interesting design for Hawklaw the way the green is orientated and the guarding of the approach shot with the bunkers on the right. Clearly they are looking to try and draw play away from the edge. With regards the new 10th tee, while I appreciate the angle it creates, it also puts the 11th green firmly in the firing line does it not ?
That's why I thought that as good a hole as the 11th is, that replacing it with Frank Ponts par 3 might have been the thing to do from a safety point of view. In contrast I'm not sure what losing the current 15th would have done other than taking away an indifferent hole.
8th hole - one of Tom Simpson favourite holes at CB and an original green site even if the level of the green is significantly lower from what it was originally. Given it's been sited there for over a hundred years you wonder why it's suddenly become a problem ?
Niall
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David
Thanks for giving us the photos of the new work up at CB. Interesting design for Hawklaw the way the green is orientated and the guarding of the approach shot with the bunkers on the right. Clearly they are looking to try and draw play away from the edge. With regards the new 10th tee, while I appreciate the angle it creates, it also puts the 11th green firmly in the firing line does it not ?
Hey Niall, thanks for the comment. The 11th green would be far less in play now than before. I bet you'd have to carry it 400 yds to make it to the green and then you'd have to be way way offline (like 100 yds) with your shot. I know it's possible to be way offline, I manage it all the time but this would be absurd. Take a look at my photos right before the burn photo you will see it, that's why I took that photo. All the safety issue are more than fixed in my opinion.
That's why I thought that as good a hole as the 11th is, that replacing it with Frank Ponts par 3 might have been the thing to do from a safety point of view. In contrast I'm not sure what losing the current 15th would have done other than taking away an indifferent hole.
I personally really think this hole adds a lot to the course routing and is super unique, kind of like the blind par 3 at Prestwick. They have built in a proper safety measure with the bell so there are no close calls or at least shouldn't be. I know that most people don't like blind par 3's but I think it's an interesting historical attribute that only a few courses can lay claim to. I sure hope they don't ever decide to change that one either.
8th hole - one of Tom Simpson favourite holes at CB and an original green site even if the level of the green is significantly lower from what it was originally. Given it's been sited there for over a hundred years you wonder why it's suddenly become a problem ?
Can't answer this but I love this hole and have always remembered it since my very first trip to Cruden Bay. As I said one of the iconic holes there and I've already wrote two emails expressing that I sincerely hope they don't go through with changes on this hole.
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David,
Thanks for the photos showing the updates to the 9th and 10th holes, I haven't been back to CB since the work was done.
How much room is there at the back of the 9th green before the cliff edge? Is it as tight as it looks? In your last photo of the 9th it looks like maybe 5 or 6 yards beyond that pin before the green feeds into a little gathering area to the left with a sliver of rough/collar before the big drop. I like the look of the green and the way the entrance has been framed - no prizes (or excuses) for going long there!
The new driving angle on 10 looks to be more interesting than the previous straight tee shot too. The changes definitely seem to be an improvement although, like you, I'd hate to see them alter or move the 8th green.
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The eleventh green is still in play off of the tenth tee (I speak as someone who routinely manages to snap hook his drive over there). It can't be more than 250 yards from the tee, unless I've gained significant length recently but I'll measure it properly when I'm out tomorrow. Given that it's out of bounds down the right usually I'll aim for the left rough and take my chances on a short iron from over there particularly if the wind is edging from the left in any way.
Also the eleventh green intrudes into the fourteenth lay up. You want to stay left to give a better angle of the green which can mean (depending on the wind, of course) hitting over the eleventh green or at least close to it.
If the extra hole could get it's green sorted - it's used all winter in place of the 11th - it'd be much better from a safety point of view, even though eleven is a nice par three. Also it'd stop all three par 3s on the back nine playing the same way.
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The eleventh green is still in play off of the tenth tee (I speak as someone who routinely manages to snap hook his drive over there). It can't be more than 250 yards from the tee, unless I've gained significant length recently but I'll measure it properly when I'm out tomorrow. Given that it's out of bounds down the right usually I'll aim for the left rough and take my chances on a short iron from over there particularly if the wind is edging from the left in any way.
Also the eleventh green intrudes into the fourteenth lay up. You want to stay left to give a better angle of the green which can mean (depending on the wind, of course) hitting over the eleventh green or at least close to it.
If the extra hole could get it's green sorted - it's used all winter in place of the 11th - it'd be much better from a safety point of view, even though eleven is a nice par three. Also it'd stop all three par 3s on the back nine playing the same way.
Michael,
Thanks for chiming in. I'll be curious to hear when you measure it. It seems to me so far out of the line of play and that was one of the things I was looking at compared to the other tee. So you have actually managed to hook your tee shot all the way over there to the green?
I'm kind of thinking if you are using those types of measurement there is no safe place on the course. The 10th fairway is also really close to the line of play for the par 3 11th as well so a hard snap hook 5 iron could definitely find someone if we are accounting for those kind of misses. I'm not trying to be cheeky either. I think the current 11th hole is an excellent hole but understand how you could sub it out for the extra hole Frank put in. That could make sense. Somehow I was thinking it was supposed to sub out for the 15th but this makes far more sense. Still I'd rather not see you guys change that. Just MO.
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David,
Thanks for the photos showing the updates to the 9th and 10th holes, I haven't been back to CB since the work was done.
How much room is there at the back of the 9th green before the cliff edge? Is it as tight as it looks? In your last photo of the 9th it looks like maybe 5 or 6 yards beyond that pin before the green feeds into a little gathering area to the left with a sliver of rough/collar before the big drop. I like the look of the green and the way the entrance has been framed - no prizes (or excuses) for going long there!
David, I think you are about right in terms of going long. You don't want to go long on that hole, that's for sure. However, it's perfectly suited for chasing one up there and I think in most cases it will be a long to mid iron. We had a ton of wind and I had to hit a 4 iron in. to give you an idea I lined up the approach about 10 meters right of the bunker on the right side of the green and the wind turned it all the way in and I don't really draw the ball.
The new driving angle on 10 looks to be more interesting than the previous straight tee shot too. The changes definitely seem to be an improvement although, like you, I'd hate to see them alter or move the 8th green.
Yes the new angle is way more interesting but as Michael just stated and corrected my assessment, maybe there is still an outside chance at a safety issue on this hole with pulled tee shots.
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Thanks for posting with more details about the 'new' 9th and 10th.
The 11th green has always had issues from both the 10th and the 13th and it's never been unusual for tee shots on the 11th itself to find themselves on the 10th or 13th fairways. An area of slow play.
The burn on the 13th is a fine feature. Being extremely curly it takes up quite a big playing area. A nicer feature perhaps when it was less manicured than the recent photo shows. Once-upon-a-time it was occasionally playable out of.
The 15th may be unappreciated by some but CB has always been about quirk. Don't ever change the 15th! Instead folks should study it and learn how to play it ....there is a best way....hint - study it from behind the green and/or from the 8th fairway.
As to the 8th, there have been a few versions over the years, the flood of the 1980's caused one revision. I thought the latest change was supposed to put it back to how it was originally, ie decades ago. Has it not done so? Cracking short par-4 though which once-upon-a-time was played as a par-3 in the winter. Tough hole then.
Atb
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From the yellow tee it's 215 yards from the markers to the eleventh green. The whites are 35 yards further back so - given that it's usually into the wind - it's not such a thing from back there.
It's 40 yards from the eleventh green to the edge of the tenth fairway which sounds plenty but - given the wind - the line I take is still only about 20 yards from the eleventh (sometimes it'll aim closer, depending on the direction of the wind). Also the two new bunkers on the 10th fairway have probably pushed my line a bit further left than it was.
As an aside, here's a look at the extra hole at the end of the course:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/908x704q90/923/ThSy4g.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1375x587q90/922/VwDptY.jpg)
And a look at the new 13th tee:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1252x704q50/922/bkzWwa.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1252x704q50/924/d4SOJn.jpg)
Of course, to get from the 12th green to the 13th tee you know walk the length of the extra hole at the end of the course (about 100 yards from the old 13th tee). And then the 11th comes back into play on 13. It's just 10 yards from the edge of the 11th green to the 13th fairway (for the first two thirds of the 13th you are heading straight at the 11th green). Here's the view if you hit a good drive:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1375x396q90/922/yTvpwQ.jpg)
The preferred line on your second is to the left of the fairway, towards 11. In fact, after a good drive, it would make sense to hit over the 11th green (it'd open up the green for your third and make it a lot easier than approaching from the right).
I feel like I'm hating the eleventh here - it is a very nice par 3. It's lost some bunkers in recent years which is a pity (I liked the squad of bunkers to the left of it) but, after slogging into the wind since the 5th tee, it's a place I'm always happy to get to. It just fits very tightly and the flow of the course would, in my opinion, be improved if they used the extra hole. Anyhoo, here's some more random thoughts (if anyone is still reading):
- The 15th is the easiest of the par 3s (by a good bit).
- The 12th fairway is only about 25 yards wide with heavy rough and gorse on either side. It's easier to play onto the 13th fairway (which is wide open) although it makes the hole a good bit longer.
- Extending the 5th green (the old run off area has been made into part of the green) doesn't really work. Don't ever, ever, ever go long at the 5th. And if the flag is at that back section, brace yourself for three putts.
- If you're more than a 10 handicap play off the yellow tees. It doesn't make much of a difference but it'll stop you having to hit a driver on every hole and the 4th and 8th are much more fun from further forward.
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Thanks for the photos Michael. The new tee on the 13th looks interesting. Some astute observations on playing some of the other holes as well.
Atb
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Those with an interest in the big course at Cruden Bay might like to view this recently tweeted short drone video of the changed 9th hole -https://twitter.com/AberdeenGolf/status/1235919460541792257 (https://twitter.com/AberdeenGolf/status/1235919460541792257)
atb
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Some really nice footage of CB from 1914 with Vardon and Ray playing in what looks like a friendly exhibition match. The golf course doesn't appear until midway through the reel.
https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/3007 (https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/3007)
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Peter
It wasn't an exhibition game, it was a medal followed by matchplay tournament for those that qualified in the medal. They ran a number of tournaments for both professionals and amateurs pre WWI in order to promote the course and hotel. I did track down the press clippings but can't recall if that was the semi-final or final. The end clips shows George Duncan and I can't recall the other guy. The four of them got through to the semi's.
If you look closely enough you will see WH Fowler leaving the hotel before the golf and also I believe the referee who is tending the flag might be Tom Simpson.
Niall