Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 10:33:20 AM

Title: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 10:33:20 AM
The Tony Pioppi thread raised an interesting question in my mind.

Let us suppose that each member of the Treehouse managed to build a superb golf course on their own dime that everyone wanted to join.  

Since you own the place,  it is up to you to decide who gets in and who does not. There are no financial constraints - it does not  necessarily need to  make money or even pay for itself.

Is it public?

Semi-Private?

Private?

What are the membership requirements?

Do you allow reciprocals?

Can women play? Can they join? Is there a "men's only" grillroom?

We can go back and forth all day about what the architecture of the course would look like, but what  I am interested in is the basic organization and social complexion of the club.

Here is what I would do:

#1. There will be no absolute rules, except a ban on hats in the clubhouse. Michael M. Thomas would write the bylaws. George Bahto would be the first member after my dad and Todd Hagen.

#2. I would hire Group Captain Ian Pierce from Swinley Forest or G.C. Christopher Moore from Hoylake to act as  Club  Secretary. All employees would answer to either of them. Any member who does not adhere to their requests or decisions is OUT. Right now.

#3. Rich Spear from Piping Rock would be paid $500,000 a year to maintain the course. What he says goes. He is the Green Committee. That is it. Karl Olson is not an option . . . lightning would strike me from the heavens.

#4. There would be both a small men's and women's grill/bar downstairs attached to their locker rooms. The dining room upstairs would have a bar area for co-ed groups.  

#5. Everyone from GCA who has attained at least 3 stars is automatically in.

#6. For everyone else, if the Treehouse decides we like them, they are only required to answer one question:

"What is a Redan Hole?"

If they flunk, they obviously do not belong.

Bob Huntley has veto power on any and all membership  decisions.    


Ran,
Who gets into the Carthage Club?

  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: A_Clay_Man on May 27, 2002, 11:26:09 AM
Wow, WHat an interesting question which reveals insight into ones own personal bias.

After careful deliberation I would want as diverse a clientel as possible. But, They must be efficient in ettiquette and pace of play.

Since golf is not an exact science and life is too boring when everyone is either from the same social or business class, love for the game and respect for others will be critical.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: RJ_Daley on May 27, 2002, 12:43:54 PM
OK Gib, I'll play.  At first I thought a response may lead to animosity since it is about "who gets in".  But in all honesty, starting my own club is just about all I ever dream about anymore, so what the heck ::)

My dream club would not be very elaborate on the clubhouse design side and would be minimalist to the max as a course design.  So operating expenses wouldn't be great.  It would be a situation of a few founders (<25) and then general members (no more than 100).  The founders would get in by being willing to share the nut of the initial develpment and would share in any profit or recovery of outlying property sale.  The founders would natuarally be intensely passionate about the course since they would share the initial cost and would have bought into the design and operational ideal.  Founding members would have a free 4some tee time everyday if they'd like.  All members would be the kind that would use their membership as a catalyst to offer the enjoyment to others whom they think would love the course and game as well.  The general members would be welcome from all walks of life and social strata and female and males.  The dues for them would be modest and affordable to most anyone who really loves the game.  The biggest criteria for membership would be the ability to demonstrate passion, humor, and respect over a period of time about the game and they would be the convivial kind that loves to share it with others.  Membership would naturally be quite a bit like the treehouse since that is sort of the essence of those who hang around here.

However, there would be some small expectations of each member.  Once a year they'd have to spend a day out on the course at the super's direction doing what ever they could learn to do.  Anything from raking bunkers to trimming areas to cutting cups to mowing the range or even if they get good enough, mow some greens with a walkbehind.  It is sort of like that Japanese Quality - Deming Process thing where you have to love and care for your facility first.

The course would be run "for profit" on a semi-private basis.  The guest policy would be very liberal in that unescorted guests and invitees would almost be the general public portion of people who play the course.  Tee times would be oriented to about 50% members and 50% general public-guest invitees.  Green fees would be determined based on what it takes to run at break-even 'at least' after all staff and costs of operations are paid.  

The maintenance operation would be run as an outreach program in conjunction with some vocational rehab center similar to the Malvern School or ChiChi's foundation.  The super would be both a good turf man, and a great mentor teacher.  He would have a staff of one mechanic willing to work and teach his small engine trade, four assistants one of which is really the trained professional to work with the youth staff, and the others would be aspiring superintendents willing to work as assistants and have the kowledge to really do the backbone of the technical turf work.

The clubhouse would be focused on a tavern like environment that has a decent kitchen facility where I would often prepare specials.  The bar room would be lots of wood and shelves full of old stuff and pictures and ceiling fans.  Founders may often be found bartending after rounds.  The dining room would only seat about 25 at a time and serve a very limitted menu of about two specials a day and perhaps 2-3 other old stand-by favorites.  Soup and sandwiches would always be available at the bar, and my auntie would make the soup!  ;)

There would be an outside covered hardtop pavillion with barbeque pits and picnic tables for outtings.  

Each founding member would be entitled to one day a year where he/she has the whole course in morning for a shotgun start to hold their own charity event and use the pavillion for entertainment and picnic.  They would be expected to do this cause that's the kind of folk they would be. 8)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 02:23:32 PM
Excellent! Just the kind of response I was hoping for. The intention of the question is not to be divisive - how can you be? The Treehouse is about as diverse as I can imagine both politically and socio-economically.

Plus, it is probably the only "club" where a guy like Bob Huntley would willingly rub elbows with an Armenian vegetable peddler or an opinionated Italian electrician ;)

The greater my experience in U.K. clubs. the more convinced I am that their model is exactly what I would want when starting a club in the states.

The women's issue is a stickier one - and because this is theoretical, I will stick by my desire to have separate locker rooms. We all need a break from the opposite sex and it was nice when Olympic was more like Garden City.

But I could not exclude anyone from membership based on sex, race or religion. What if Nicole Kidman applied for membership and knew what a Redan was?

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on May 27, 2002, 03:14:36 PM
Gib,

Only golfers who LOVE, APPRECIATE AND RESPECT THE GAME.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Robert "Cliff" Stanfield on May 27, 2002, 03:38:48 PM
I would have to start a cart girl program maybe in conjunction with Hooters.  Kinda like the Caddy Scholarship program.

I would make everybody walk and have to employ a caddy.  If you are evaluated as an SOB by the caddy you get a yellow card. 2 in a year equals red and you are asked to leave the club.

No equipment sales at the club and no mechandise.  Every member will have the opportunity to hit a closet that his full of the best new toys on the market.  If you like it gets ordered and put in your locker for next round.

Part of your locker dues and membership includes that your locker will always be stocked.  For instance...new gloves, preferred balls, tees, and change of clothes with correct size and style....and other vices...er rusty nail flasks, cayman balls(just kidding).

Clubhouse is single story and no larger than the average 4 bedroom house.  No swimming pool, no tennis courts, no asphalt!

Rocking chairs on the porch, cold drinks at the bar, and pickeled eggs in a jar on the bar.  Cubans sit in a humidor next to the freshly dated cans of copenhagen.  

Showers can knock the paint off a car and the when the toilet flushes a squirt of air freshner hits the air.  All staff have playing priveledges when not at work and have full rights to eminities.  The course is open to students of the game who are not employees or members....although a letter must be written along with their club pro's introduction or a letter form their past troopmaster or Mom.

In order to be a member you must play the golf course with several existing members prior to joining....during different weather and climates.  See who really wants to play even if its raining.

The course design:

Kudos on the comment of making each member work on the maintenance of the club once a year...like a piece of leased hunting land.

The design shall be of multiple designers and shall take years to study the land.  Each designer will be guaranteed membership and a competition for designing a par5 par4 and par3 shall be drafted for International competition.  Winners receive full membership and construction of their hole pending layout etc.

No cart paths and no ball washers and no tee signs.  Flags sticks will be wooden.  Flags shall be baskets.

If land permits there will be 36 holes...one with bent grass greens and the other with bermuda.  Practice facilities will have various putting greens for the differewnt grasses found nationally.

Oh and all of this has been paid for by a dead GCAer who has billions and left it ot the club to design a course.  The yearly dues similar to UK will be under 1000US and there is no set monthly food bill even if you dont show up to eat.

I have more but I will stop for now I am getting depressed.  


Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 05:06:08 PM
The clubhouse will be constructed on the bottom of a hill, not on top, unless the land is as good as Shinnecock or NGLA.

We will have a perfectly maintained "Children's Course" with miniature versions of CB/Raynor greens. Like a wonderful little course in Gullane, there will be a sign:

"No adults unless accompanied by a child."

Assistant Pro's will be requried to play with a different set of members at least once a week until everyone has played with them. Also, they will be paid handsomely. The American practice of paying our young professionals an embarrassingly low wage ends at Papazian Hills CC.

Any employee of the club - when not on duty - is free to play if there is a slot available. Members will be encouraged to invite the help into their group.

Anyone caught with a tennis racquet on the premises will be excommunicated.

The golf course will be closed during the final rounds of all major championships. That way everyone will gather together and watch golf history unfold.

There will be a shotgun tournament following conclusion of each final round.

Sunday afternoon is alternate shot only. You must play with somebody different every time.

Every chair will be ridiculously comfortable.

Anyone caught with their hat on backwards will be killed unless they are a major league catcher.

The food menu will be simple with no dishes I cannot pronounce. However, the wine cellar will be obnoxiously well stocked.

All members will be required to donate a case of their favorite vino every year. The brand will be posted in the clubhouse.

All scotches will be single malt.

High quality tequila only.

No Budweiser.

There will be at least a dozen overnight rooms. Simple and tasteful, they will also have Golf Channel at all times.

The airstrip will be able to takeoff and land my Citation.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Robert "Cliff" Stanfield on May 27, 2002, 05:41:19 PM
hey budweiser is acceptable on broken white styrofoam cooler day
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: TEPaul on May 27, 2002, 06:16:32 PM
If I owned the club I would tell Gib Papazian don't bother me with long explanations like those posts above--just run the place and if he thinks he has some kinda problem he can't handle give me a call otherwise maybe we have a meeting once a year like in the first week of January and the rest of the time Gib can take care of things however he wants.

For me, I'll just putter around and enjoy the views, maybe occasionally see if I can hit a putt up that kickup 180 degrees in the opposite direction from the cup and maybe sink about 1 out of 100! That's all I need to do!

Oh yeah, I'll hang this sign in a prominent place myself:

"The bunkering is best avoided to play this course successfully. Bunker maintenance is done only by the players themselves!"

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 27, 2002, 06:29:59 PM
You got a Citation?

The course, which of course must be first rate, should be designed by one of the modern classicists, Doak, Hanse, Smyers, C&C.  The design should carefully follow the dictates of Dr. Mackenzie in his formal code of design criteria.  In particular, the course should be challenging for the skilled and fun for the less skilled.  The course should of course fit the site regardless of where the site may be located.  No "links" courses in parkland settings created merely by clear cutting and calling it a "links."

The clubhouse should not only be understated but actually somewhat rustic.  There should be a wide porch where play to and on the 9th and 18th greens can be observed.  There should be nothing fancier on the menu than a rib eye steak sandwich, and the cheeseburger should be locally famous.  As Gib indicates, the wine list should be excellent, with French and California wines that go well with steak sandwiches and cheeseburgers.

No swimming pool, no tennis courts.  A caddy program that actually employs caddies, and members who walk unless physically unable.  The caddies can play every Monday and clinics are part of the caddy program.

Handicaps should be scrupulously accurate but most casual play should be scratch with matches organized to reflect levels of skill.  

The lockers in mens and women's locker rooms should be purchased from Oakmont next time they upgrade their locker rooms.  Maybe the porch too.

The speed of the greens should reflect the internal contours of the greens.  Not necessarily "fair," but certainly playable.

As is the practice at Pensacola CC, the pros should actually play with the members, participating in the Saturday dog fight and other games.

Also like PCC, no tee times unless it's the club championship or something like that.  While this could create a problem at some clubs, everybody knows when to show up and there's never more than a 20 minute wait on the first tee.  A group on the 9th tee understands if a foursome jumps in on #10 to avoid a 20 minute wait.

Oh yeah, no restrictions on when women can play.  Again, everybody understands when to be there in order to get on and play fast.  All rounds are conducted in less than 3:30.  Because there's no fancy clubhouse, lavish food operation, and money losing pool and tennis courts, the membership can be around 200 and the initiation fee/dues can be modest.  The biggest item on the budget would be course maintenance.

I've actually been dreaming about belonging to a club like this for years.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: TEPaul on May 27, 2002, 06:39:50 PM
Bill McB;

Have I got your dream for you! You want to see it preconstruction?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 27, 2002, 06:51:12 PM
Tom - where and when?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: brad_miller on May 27, 2002, 07:01:35 PM
Just a point of clarification, reading what you'll are saying and assuming "free land" with great topography and sandy soil this project still will cost between $6-8MM to complete. Making this affortable to all those that love, honor and respect the game is not easy and not without significant RISK.

What is needed if one is not merely dreaming is a out of the way location (NOT North Dakoda) sandy soil, great natural topography, airport, 8 month season or better, proximity to other world class golf and a National Membership, because given the above issues there is not a local area that can afford the structure.

500 members...$20,000
750 members...$15,000... and you still have dues.

And since this is a field of dreams, you better build one hell of a golf course, IT MUST BE WORLD CLASS!!!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 27, 2002, 07:05:41 PM
Brad, there you go being realistic again.  This is "Field of Dreams" stuff.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Mike_Sweeney on May 27, 2002, 07:45:58 PM
If you were a caddy as a kid, you are in. If your were not a caddy as a kid, then you have to caddy at The Club for at least 5 rounds with/for members. This is not meant to be a hazing, but rather to learn and apprciate the club, its developing traditions and its caddy program which is an integral piece of the club.

Similar to Sankaty Head or many of the clubs in UK and Ireland, it would be a private club during the prime season, but would be open to guest at off times and season who will have to play with our caddies who will educate them on proper etiquette at the club.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Jeff Fortson on May 27, 2002, 07:59:16 PM
Being an Assistant Professional myself right now, I would want to join Gib's Club!!!  

I actually would open the membership to all GCA members only.  GCA Golf Club in the Hamptons or in Scotland would have a nice ring to it.  It would be a classic design with a minimalist's approach.  The clubhouse would be stock full of golf and golf architecture history.  

What a great thread!  I could write about this for hours!

Jeff F.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 08:01:12 PM
The lockers will have no locks.

Our head professional will be an older guy who has been through the wars with other clubs and wants a permanent home.

The club will build him a very nice house - where he will live for free as long as he stays on the job.

The job will be for life, or until he voluntarily steps down.

Bartenders will be paid lots of money, but there will be no tipping allowed.

Every year, Rich Spear will be given an unlimited budget and whatever new equipment he wants. No committee, no questions asked.

There will NEVER EVER EVER be a professional event on the golf course of any type.

However, there will be an annual international invitational amateur event. Members will caddy for the players.

Guest fees will be a bottle of fine vino provided by the guest himself - to be enjoyed in the clubhouse after the round.

If we like the guest enough, we make him/her a member - provided Bob Huntley signs off on him.

If his wine sucks, he is never invited back - even if he knows what a Redan hole is.  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: mike_beene on May 27, 2002, 08:11:03 PM
no tee times.no caddie program.Walk and carry.Some single rider carts for those with health issues.Lunch buffet only.Porch and golf shop overlook number one.No hats in clubhouse.Small membership with guests encouraged .Ministers are given yearly memberships.Touring pros welcome but they pay like everyone else.Putts are holed.High ethics are most important.My test would be to see how the prospective member treats the employees.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Lynn_Shackelford on May 27, 2002, 08:17:39 PM
;) Membership open all, unless you are actively involved in the entertainment industry or have reason to be involved inside the "beltway" in politics.
Must have rocking chairs overlooking the 18th green with bar service outside.
Each member must travel and play abroad each year.
Caddies will vote once annually to determine if any member is to be removed.
The greens are aerified, small tines and light top dressing, and the course is closed for 3 days during this period.  Maintenance is concentrated heavily on 3 Mondays monthly when the course is closed.
Must have active knowledge of Golf Club Atlas.
Active reading of Golfweek Superintendent is not necessary.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Lynn_Shackelford on May 27, 2002, 08:20:08 PM
;D I forgot, USC Trojans are allowed, but only if they admit they are often wrong and occasionally in doubt.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: duh on May 27, 2002, 08:34:03 PM
I hear a lot of idealism out there.  This is a similar question to asking who it is that should get a donor liver when hundreds of people are on the waiting list.  When push comes to shove the people in your club will be those who pay the bills.  Can I be a part of club utopia just because I love the shit out of good golf courses.  I have a good heart.  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Pete_Pittock on May 27, 2002, 08:56:03 PM
Entry requirements include writing a good essay about "what is golf" and a promise to leave their cell phone in the car. Local membership of 200, with national memberships available, Reciprocal play and tee times for singles to meet and play.  Twelve minute tee times, with a club rule that if a group catches you, they must be allowed to play through.
The course will be designed to be playable in reverse and have minimal sprinkler coverage, for fairways only, so it will play firm and fast. And a dormie house.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 10:22:59 PM
In the spirit of inclusivity, even aging basketball icons will be admitted, provided their son documents the club history.  

Bruins will not be required to answer the Redan question because it discriminates on the basis of I.Q. - however, they will be given bonus points if smart enough to send their offspring to a private university . . . . . oh, like Pepperdine. ;)

The clubhouse will have a big-screen monitor, continuously updating GCA posts. There will be keyboards strewn out in the grillroom.

For those who cannot type, we will have voice recognition technology to post by simply talking.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: George Pazin on May 27, 2002, 10:35:48 PM
The only question left is what clubs currently are closest to Gib's ideals?

And what US clubs would be if they didn't have to worry about lawsuits?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 27, 2002, 11:27:02 PM
Oh, I forgot one of the most important things:

There will be an enormous golf library in the grillroom of first edition copies. Members may take anything they like home to be brought back when they have read it.

The walls will be covered with memorabilia. . . . . . think Garden City.

Everywhere - especially the locker room - will have golf balls and all sorts of clubs both old and new strewn out or leaning against walls.

It is important when sharing a cocktail to have a club handy to waggle.

I want a wooden target, similar to the one in the bar at the Pinecrest Inn (Pinehurst Village), to settle bets. Indoor chip-offs in the bar are marvelously entertaining . . . . we are all still boys at heart.

As a final little touch, there will be a large and deep pond adjacent to the clubhouse full of bass and trout with a shack full of lures and fly casting equipment. Barbless hooks, catch and release - unless you are going to eat your catch immediately.

The kitchen will have a cook on staff at all times to prepare your fish.

Use of Power Bait is grounds for immediate expulsion from the club.

  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Neal_Meagher on May 27, 2002, 11:29:01 PM
Gib,

You have covered everything socialistic, so to speak, now what about aesthetically?

This place shall have "SOUL", so much so that no one shall ever have to shriek.  It will roll and tumble forth across about 350 acres or so of sandy or sandy loam with a few interesting patches of indigenous trees to spice things up.

The clubhouse will be reached by a long and meandering entrance lane that dips and curves like a roiling putt along one of Goodale's Dornoch greens.  And once one arrives, the unassuming club will appear at the last second, around the bend and over a slight vertical curve, just slightly more abrupt than a civil engineer would approve of, even one from my alma mater.  Then............there it is..................as if it has always been there.  

A simple gravel and/or crushed granite car park, or to the point, a series of them staggered down a slight grade and diminished in importance by the magnificent native trees that will separate the actual parking areas.  And no concrete curbs shall be in evidence, instead there shall be 8-10' lengths of New England granite cut into 6" x 6" curbs elegantly edging the crushed granite which will sound just right underfoot.

Then onto the club itself which may have a small porte-cochere if only for inclement weather, and NOT for the use of headphone wearing "greeters".  If any greeters show up, they shall be turned into topdressing.  So this shall consist of a couple of small structures, an elegantly rustic golf shop to the left and 30-50' to its right, the club with a series of the aforementioned porches surrounding all and creating a sense of community.  And most definitely with those rocking chairs with curb service.  But Gib, a few very good blended scotches shall be allowed for those occasions when a scotch on the rocks is just what the doctor ordered.

One then wanders into this perfectly proportioned space between these buildings to behold the course beyond: sprawling, more brown than green, not a bunker rake on the premises (these will be hazards) and not a cart girl named Gretchen anywhere.

The course will start, like your Lake does, directly outside the golf shop window, so close that an extra wide backswing would break the glass.  And the 10th tee (if it happens to not be an 18-hole loop) would directly abut the outside bar.  So close that an extra wide backswing would break someone's manhattan or Arrogant Bastard.

No concrete would exist ANYWHERE on the premises, most especially on the golf course.  Instead there would be very discreet maintenance lanes of decomposed granite that would be oh so out-of-the-way.  And each tee would be so close to the preceeding green that an extra wide backswing would smack someone plumb-bobbing a putt on that previous green.  (maybe that would teach them not to plumb-bob).

There would be no discernable differentiation between what was there and what wasn't.  There would be no "death by cape and bay" bunkering.  ANYWHERE.  The hazards, instead, would be so sublimely naturalistic and visceral that one would want to weep at the awesome power and vitality that they would bring to this golf course.  And there would be no ROUND greens surrounded by multi-faceted fingery and lacy bunkers.  This excercise in dichotomy does not work in my visual head nor is it appropriate for Papazian Hills.  No, this will be a golf course for the shot-maker.  Because it would be primarily designed by the ultimate shot-maker, the knock-down, punchy, soft-fadey, make it do anything you want it to do architect.  I guess that would be you, or else you would have to name it something else.

In short (because this surely ain't), this place would simply -fit.  That, more than anything else, would assure that it would be perfectly suited to you, your Dad, Todd Hagen and George Bahto.

Oh, and one more thing, it would have a biarritz, a redan, a long, a short, an eden, an alps, a cape..................a bottle,................................................a punchbowl.......................................................................
..............
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: David Wigler on May 28, 2002, 05:47:59 AM
Gib,

Why don't you work a little harder at one of your ventures so you can become rich enough to build your club?  It sounds ideal.  Among clubs that really do exist, my dream club is The Golf Club in Columbus.  Two problems, they are not excepting new members (Especially Wolverines) and my wife would never let me join.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Who's the BOSS on May 28, 2002, 06:16:44 AM
If financial one could understand, if not and one loves this wonderful game, that's pretty sad :(
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BillV (Guest) on May 28, 2002, 06:33:35 AM
I would let a number of Joe Blows in off the street so that more can learn about good architecture and try and help the future of the game.

I played with wifey after a tone-a-mint went out at the club yesterday and the pace of play was so bad once we caught up to the pack that we walked in. (1:45 for 9 holes, :30 for two holes!) :P

We caught up to a man and his two young sons who are pretty good players and their pace on the greens was embarassingly abysmally glacial and these 13 and 16 year olds were in carts!!!!  And they were being held up by the tone-a-mint.

I would use my club to help the future of the game.

Absolutely ladies allowed, but you guys knew that

No halfway house, no return to he clubhouse at nine/ten, but several holes ideally a short walk from the clubhouse to encourage 3, 5 7, 11, etc hole plays

Anyone who knows and loves
-what a redan is
-who Charlie Mac was
-how to play fast, fix marks
-walks and carries (I love caddies, but at my own club I like to carry (Something Lehigh won't let me do much in season))
-fast play
can join my club (To be called Feifdom Golf Club?) 8)

MAX 3-balls allowed, foursomes OK and encouraged (4-balls too slow for me)

But members would be encouraged or required to bring a new pair of Joe Blows once a month.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: David Wigler on May 28, 2002, 06:52:35 AM
Who's The Boss,

The Golf Club has several rules.  One is close to "Any structure with a roof on it, Women are not allowed in it."  Whether I am the boss or she is, I am not going to be allowed to join a club that doesn't even allow women to walk into the Pro Shop.

Boy - everything else about that place is perfect though.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: TEPaul on May 28, 2002, 07:03:34 AM
If it was my club I would have pace of play controlled by not crowding the course and by encouraging everyone to  understand pace of play etiquette thoroughly--which is basically extremely simply--there is a definition for letting groups through etc.

Personally I'm no slow player at all but the one thing I would encourage is that everyone enjoy their game and whatever happens to not have to feel their round is a footrace or one that is on a clock at all!!

Holding people up is lack of simple commonsense and it's not good at all but the other side of the spectrum are people who are so fanatical about speed of play that some golfers can hardly enjoy themselves. It's a game to be enjoyed not a game to be timed--not unless it's a monitored, officiated  tournament and pace of play becomes a problem!! Tournaments are different and as long as I've been officiating I've yet to see a group go through another group which is of course the commensense answer to pace of play problems in recreational golf!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: A_Clay_Man on May 28, 2002, 07:19:00 AM
Tepaul- I don't know what bubble you golf in but most of us public types don't have the luxury of allowing groups thru or being allowed thru.
First off, if the course is empty, yes, letting and going thru is a viable option. The reality is that on a course with stacked tee times, it's counter-productive. Sure you might be get thru but what have you actually done to the rest of those poor bastards behind you? Slowed them down even more.

The onus of responsibility should be placed on the morons that can't find their arse with a compass. If done properly. the afflicted just might get the clue that they don't belong within two city blocks of a golf course and we never have to deal with them again.

Harsh but true.

And,(not you Tom) who/what was that crap about ministers??
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Mike Hendren on May 28, 2002, 07:32:39 AM
Gib,

Sorry to crash your utopia, but I have retained legal counsel since your prohibition against Budweiser and power baits is obviously a thinly veiled attempt to exclude Tennesseans. :)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Ben Cowan-Dewar on May 28, 2002, 07:48:36 AM
Membership would be balanced throughout by ages.

Parents and children would be a personal favourite.

No amenities, other than those described.

My ideal piece of land has a stone farm house, so that strikes me what my clubhouse would be.

I would give the designing to a young architect full of passion, who would love the land as much as I do.

I would not interfere, except to offer my idea for every hole  ;)

So long as I had a great golf course and somewhere to sleep, I would leave the details to Gib, who seemingly has the rest planned to a tee.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Peter Galea on May 28, 2002, 07:52:55 AM
Replace the rockers with Adirondack chairs and most of this sounds like Olde Kinderhook. :)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Will E on May 28, 2002, 08:33:13 AM
everyone is required to bring their dog to the course at least once a week, weekdays only.
one hole with lots of flowers and a waterfall for Wigler :)
everyone plays Ben Hogan irons
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: David Wigler on May 28, 2002, 09:23:30 AM
Shooter,

Your "Wigler" hole better be as pretty as the Par 3 on the new nine at Country Club of The Desert.  I still cannot believe you did not like that hole.  It was spectacular.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on May 28, 2002, 09:53:29 AM
Gib,

After reading all of the responses, which real golf club comes closest to meeting all of the desired criteria ?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: RJ_Daley on May 28, 2002, 12:00:16 PM
Pat, I know you asked Gib, but backtrack to Brad Klein's thread on Wild Horse and see how many criteria you can pick out.  I'd say that the only thing lacking is an expansion of the clubhouse to have a better kitchen and dining area.  It needs about 3000sqft more space to operate like a comfy little club.  It has the wrap around porch.  It also has the kind of cost to operate structure where memberships could be held to a very affordable level by most standards in the country.  If the course were in your home area, I believe they'd have a suitable CH and charge 200K to join...  :o

Now, if they could transport the clubhouse of the other Axeland and Proctor course out there, Bayside, you'd have paradise.  Bayside has one of the coolest rustic log cabin CHs I have seen.  Plenty of separate private space for banquets or meetings.  It is sort of a mini Old Faithful Inn...
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 28, 2002, 04:30:30 PM
Patrick,

Interesting question. Oddly enough, the closest club to this ideal is probably yours. Garden City has a great amateur event, perfectly routed, walkable golf course, comfy clubhouse and wonderful veranda. The drinks are as strong as the water pressure in the shower, and the grillroom is a golf museum and library. The membership is intimate and everything about the place is soooothing and relaxing. No tennis or swimming pool and every pore in that rickety old clubhouse drips tradition.

I cannot compare it to NGLA or Shinnecock because I have never gotten as clear a sense of the tone of those clubs on a personal level. I always get treated wonderfully, but clearly as a guest - I never quite get to feeling completely comfortable like I hope my friends do at Olympic.

There is a more formal undertone to those clubhouses than I would like on an everyday basis. Perhaps it is just the social texture of the Hamptons - Maidstone strikes me in a similar fashion.

But SFGC - although one of my favorite golf courses - is also a vaguely uncomfortable atmosphere for me. I have never gotten past the suspicion that everyone is being subtley evaluated - by the members, the help, even the caddies. Burlingame CC too.

Any club that I found will strive for organized informality.  Dice boxes in the bar, lots of laughter and a membership roster full of needle-artists, that is my idea of heaven. . . . all against a backdrop of a perfectly organic setting that feels like a secret enclave even if stark reality lies directly outside the gates.

Maybe it is my Olympic Club orientation, but the idea of two completely different types of golf courses appeals to me. Winged Foot feels too much like an enormous factory (as does Olympic) and the East Course is just a rational version of the West. I get the sense they are too much alike.

The economic realities of a 36 hole facility dictate a larger membership, but this is my fantasy and not reality.

Neal will do the designing and I'll try not to annoy him with too many impractical ideas. It is a wonder he has not lost patience yet. . . . . "gee Neal, wouldn't a Principal's Nose bunker look really cool right there? . . . . . oh, yeah, I guess the water would collect . . . . how about a Principal's Nose pond?"

I'm going to pull out a golf club I ran across last year that seems to get most everything right - and it will surprise you.

Lahontan GC outside of Truckee, CA seems to have that magic combination of informality and first class amenities without seeming garish or wastefully oppulent.

It is just a short distance from town but you would never know it is there unless you were purposely trying to find it.
 
The golf course (Weiskopf) just wanders away from the clubhouse down a hill and meanders through the pines and hills with a fairly seamless routing (there is a small backtrack on the 3rd hole). It is firm and fast with plenty of opportunities to invent different shots. A refreshing walk where 36 holes will actually energize you.

The clubhouse is this understated structure blended into the pine forest with all sorts of decks and seating areas and gorgeous views of the Sierras. Everything is made of wood and there are areas with lots of light and some in the cozy shadows.

I like a clubhouse with lots of little nooks and crannies and every time I walked around a corner exploring the place I came across a few inviting chairs surrounding a firepit, similar to what is outside at Spanish Bay except tasteful.

Everyone from the head professional to the bartender goes along at an unhurried pace with a genuine friendlyness and not the slightest hint of that kind of ass-kissing smarmy crap so prevalent at "new money clubs."

It was Friday afternoon and they have a weekly cocktail party on one of the decks for all the members and their guests.

Everyone is made to feel welcome - people come right up and introduce themselves and fetch the newcomer a drink. Nothing but smiles - and not the phony kind.

Below the deck on the putting green is the entire ground's crew and Superintendent, playing croquette and drinking beer supplied by the club every week as a thank you for doing a great job.

Is that the ideal club? Nah . . . . mostly because it is seasonal and lacks all the important touches that Garden City has, but combine the two and it would be tough to beat.

Now, if only it had a Redan . . . . .    
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Joe Hancock on May 28, 2002, 05:36:58 PM
I've always pictured my ideal pro shop as a small stone builing in the shade of some large trees with a putting green nearby. The pro would be an older gentleman with a cigar in is mouth and has been in golf forever. There would be a spigot on the side of the building with a slow, steady drip. Pro shop has a few types of balls, hats, gloves...maybe a few top line putters. Gee, I'm feeling a bit nostalgic!

Joe
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bob_Huntley on May 28, 2002, 07:11:19 PM
JHancock;

With respect, I would fire the first employee who would walk around with a cigar in his mouth.

Sorry, but seeing a cigar butt left on a golf course is about as disgusting a scene as one could imagine.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Mike_Cirba on May 28, 2002, 07:26:26 PM
I would concur with many of the thoughts expressed already, and would cite Stonewall, and the course I played yesterday, Olde Kinderhook near Albany, NY (as Pete Galea mentioned) as modern clubs who have the right idea.

In fact, Olde Kinderhook hasn't even really built a formal clubhouse with showers and such yet, such is the focus on golf.  In fact, the owner leaves the club open all winter for member play (and you can imagine that upstate NY does not have balmy winter weather), and a "busy day" even in mid-season is 40 golfers.  The membership and staff are uniformly welcoming and the whole place feels like just a local hangout for like-minded friends.  The golf course is superb and immensely challenging while surely being the best Rees Jones course I've seen.  From a maintenance standpoint, it plays so firm and fast that you can hear the ball rolling across the crispy greens.

Back to the general topic; one thing I haven't heard mentioned yet that I thought I might add is that there is something so quaint and civilized about providing wooden benches at each tee.    
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: John_D._Bernhardt on May 28, 2002, 09:57:28 PM
Good Point for I have yet to give my dream for it is a work in hopeful reality. Yet wood benches in the form of half logs or some very simple wood bench is part of theat walking ideal.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: TEPaul on May 28, 2002, 10:19:28 PM
a clay man:

I'll tell you what--if you're going to play that kind of public golf and public courses you better just get used to it---cuz it ain't gonna change. If there's no room on the course to let a group thru take it up with the people who own the course and set the tee times and the group spacing--if they put too many people on the course that's the problem, and no amount of etiquette is going to fix that!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: brad_miller on May 29, 2002, 06:17:45 AM
Mike, I suspect in manys ideal course wood or other benches would not be needed. :)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: David Wigler on May 29, 2002, 06:42:33 AM
I have been ducking this since I hate to jinx the dream but what the heck.  My ideal club...

The property is 400 acres.  In a tragic accident, every environmentalist within 100 miles fell off a cliff on a "Save the horned bullfrog" retreat.  Therefore, with no one to protest, we can use any part of the property to build the golf course.  The terrain in rolling with 60 - 80 feet of grade.  There is a natural river running through the property that, if well routed, could be traversed multiple times.  There is one spring fed lake that can be put in play.   The course is 19 holes with a complete chipping and putting complex around an oversized putting green and 18 hole putting course.  It is designed by one of the up and coming superstars of golf design (who gets classical architecture).  I promise to make fewer suggestions than Tom Paul makes posts on GCA.

The clubhouse is a brick and stone building.  The locker room has the oversized metal lockers.  Every row has pictures of the course history.  The locker room manager knows your name, your guests name, your families names and every off color golf joke ever told.  The Dining Room and halfway house serve tremendous hot dogs, grilled chicken, burgers and fries.  There is a small formal dining room with a major wine list for entertaining.  The Head Professional is a student of the game who loves to teach.  He spends the majority of his time on the range working with anyone he can.  If he does not have a lesson, then he walks over to some kid who is on the range trying to get better and helps him free.  The Assistant Pro's make sure everything is organized but make it a point to play with every member in the club.  If ever a group shows up with a threesome, they always ask if they would like a fourth.  

The membership is made up of people who like to gamble (But understand that it is far more fun to win $20 than $200, since the important thing is the teasing that goes along with winning but you never need to feel guilty about taking $20).  The only time there is a disagreement at the club is because everyone always fights over who has the privilege of signing for the days chits.  The caddies are made up of high school and college golfers.  They have playing privileges at least twice a week and are always tipped at least 100% of the caddie fee.  The club leads the area every year in producing Evans Scholars.  The by-laws state that anyone sandbagging with be publicly flogged and all tournaments are won by the best player on that day.  The Head Superintendent understands hard and fast fairways and "Augusta" greens.  His budget is whatever he says it needs to be - no questions asked.

That is enough for now.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bob_Huntley on May 29, 2002, 09:29:12 AM
I would dissuade any member from making larger than life bets. More clubs and friendships have been ruined by excessive gambling than any other cause. Forty years ago, Royal Johannesburg had a clique of punters that caused much concern to the rest of the membership. Because they tipped expansively and the caddies always bet on their player, the rest of the members would have a tough time getting a caddie, as they all hid in the background until their favourite arrived. It got so bad, that the Board issued an edict that no one was to play for more than thirty pennies out and in, drinks at the turn and for lunch. If it was determined that a Member had broken the rules he was
suspended for ninety days.

My point, what is the amount that is considered reasonable?
In our group, any one who loses ten dollars or more is out of the drink roll.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: David Wigler on May 29, 2002, 09:33:53 AM
Bob,

You hit on the point I was getting at.  I like to needle and tease.  If I when $5.00, I can needle the loser about which direction the money is going in.  If I win $200.00 I feel bad about taking that much money from someone.  Gambling on a golf course is fun in my mind.  Your rule would be just fine at my club.  No bet that exceeds the cost of dinner and drinks.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: shivas at home on May 29, 2002, 03:45:14 PM
I'm having trouble logging on at work, so here goes from home:

36 holes

semi-private

male members only (alternating between courses), so that one course is always male members only and the other is for everyone else (the fairest compromise I know of)

non-members get on only with a letter from a pro that our pro knows and trusts.

employees, non-members, ladies, unaccompanied kids, etc. play the other course any time they want, with members having priority and everyone else filling in on a first come, first served basis

no tee times -- just show and play

mens' locker room has bar and lounge so we can hide, be stupid, belch, etc

everything is self serve -- the bar, the halfway (which comes with a fridge, a Weber Genesis and a spatchula and that's about it.  If you don't clean up after yourself, you lose playing privileges.  The dining room is the only exception -- the dining room has exceptional service and is a cool contrast to the get-it-yourself atmosphere throughout the rest of the club.

no snobby membership policy.  Initiation is based on ability to pay, and the club is equity,  so the zillionaire who has to pay a ton to get in gets his dough back, but the teacher who loves golf and can't afford to pay a ton also gets his back too. Voting is one member, one vote so the fact that a handful of really rich guys will probably own most of the equity in the club doesn't matter as to policy.   All membership decisions are made initially on a blind basis, with a written test consisting of rigorous questions about golf and golf history (with an afffidavit from a pro or somebody reputable that they took the test without cheating) -- what is a redan, who besides Paul Laurie won the Open at Carnoustie, name 6 British Open courses, what is the modern day equivalent of a mashie, who invented the sand wedge, who designed Bethpage (trick question), how do you hit a knock-down, etc.  If the application has good enough answers, the prospective member is brought in for an oral interview and a playing examination.  At that point, we figure out whether he's a zillionaire CEO or a trucker, and at that point, it doesn't matter  -- if he's a good guy who knows golf,he's in, and the only issue is how much to charge him to get in (the standard for this is that it has to hurt enough financially to make him think about whether it's worth it, but no more than that).  

members get their own damn bag from the bag racks

trollies are encouraged

motorized carts for those unable to walk have governors so they can only go at a walking pace to encourage conversation between shots

you aren't frowned upon for NOT taking a caddie if you carry

members loop for employees occasionally based on a system similar to jury duty, ie you get hit up for it every year or two on special occasions.

every new member must contribute some cool piece of golf memorabelia, commensurate with his ability to procure the same, which all goes on the walls.

obvious stuff -- no cart paths, no ballwashers, no waterfalls, pot bunkers everywhere, dogs allowed, no gossip, no ladies league if it gives prizes for fewest putts in 9 holes.

holds major amateur tournament

anyone known as a sandbagger is banned from the premises

all club events require the use of blades and wood woods, otherwise anything technology-wise goes.

 

 

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Dave_Miller on May 29, 2002, 04:09:25 PM
Gil:  This is a great question and terrific excercise.
In designing my own club it would be private, Ed Baker would be Admissions Chair and sole determiner of who gets in.  An understanding of the Great Architecture of the game might convince Ed to let a person in.  The Club House would incorporate some of the great features of other clubs such as the Men's Grill at Aronimink.  Ladies would be permitted to join but they would have to clear Ed.  They would have their own Grill/Lounge off the locker room.
Selected reciprocals would be arranged.
Everyone would have to have an understanding and great respect for the traditions and history of the game.
The design of the course would incorporate many features of the Great Architects Ross, MacDonald, Flynn etc.
The only hard and fast rule would be that anyone who played in more than 3 hours and 55 minutes would be automatically expelled.
Cheers
Dave Miller
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Andy Levett (Guest) on May 29, 2002, 04:27:02 PM
Lots of people outside US of A want to know (maybe) what's Power Bait?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Andy Levett (Guest) on May 29, 2002, 04:27:12 PM
Lots of people outside US of A want to know (maybe) what's Power Bait?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: ian on May 29, 2002, 04:58:17 PM
Strictly public, caddies required, 100 rounds a day.

I see too many private clubs, too intimately, to ever want to be part of one (even dictator).
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 29, 2002, 09:11:40 PM
What is Power Bait?

Let us say you wanted to catch cats in the alley and used catnip as bait . . . . it is not sporting, like scopes on hunting rifles.

Power Bait is a brightly colored play-doh type product that is simply glopped onto a 3-pronged hook and tossed inthe water as a neanderthal would. No art, no talent necessary, just like hitting an ERC II - cheating yourself, nature and God.

Plus, the trout swallows the 3-way (treble) hook all the way down and it is almost impossible to extract it without killing the fish. Therefore, catch and release is nearly impossible. People who fish with Power Bait tend to drink Bud . . . both are banned at Papazian Hills.

Now, let's establish a few more touchstones for my golf club:

Because I have magically created 36 holes, every day a tee time for a foursome (one for each) of local clergy (Rabbi's etc), cops and fireman will be set aside.

They will have the run of the facilities including food and drink that will be kept on a running tab throughout the year.

On December 31st, the total will be tabulated, sent to the the respective Police/Fire Chiefs and Clergy. On January 1st, the bills will be thrown in the trash.

Group Captain Ian Pierce (Club Secretary) will enclose the bill and pen a nice letter to the recipients, soliciting a donation to the caddy scholarship fund.

Tax deductible for the individuals of course.

Additionally, if a kid wishes to become a cop or fireman or go to seminary, the beneficiaries of the club's good graces will make damned well sure that the kid gets into the program of their choice. Failure to take care of one of our kids is punishable by banishment to the local muni.

Longtime caddies who need drug and alcohol rehab will be sponsored by the club. . . . . but three strikes and they are out. We have already had enough of Dexter Manely and Steve Howe. Papazian Hills is a club, not a home for wayward addicts. (See: downtown S.F.)

Final thought:

I received an e-mail from a prominent member of the Treehouse, ripping my ass for having the temerity to include a correct answer to the "Redan Question" above as a prerequisite for membership.

Evidently, I am another GCA snob who has no respect for those who wish to learn and one of the reasons that many people shy away from posting.

Okay, in the spirit of inclusion, I promise to recind the offending question as long as the applicant is willing to read one of the major works on golf architecture and write a reasonably cogent esssay on their findings.

Too much to ask? Bullshit. I wrote a 3000 word essay for Brad Klein on my architectural philosophy as a requirement for inclusion onto the GolfWeek panel. It is a damned good piece too . . . . I've sold it and been paid 3 times for it in different publications.

Herb Wind said it was okay to recycle your work. . . . and who am I to argue?

That is not too much to ask. (I'm talkin' to you . . . and you know who you are even though you only post once a week)

Unless you have a club with no entrance requirements but a collared shirt, what is the point of a private club for chrissakes???

Like minded people form clubs. Get over it. Some are based on race, religion, sex, social status or wealth.

The membership at Papazian Hills is based soley on a love and passion for our game. If you can demonstrate that and figure out a way to provide a good case of wine each year, you are in.

Provided Huntley doesn't give you the ding.


Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Lou Duran on May 29, 2002, 09:36:56 PM
Gib,

I would love to read your Golfweek essay.  Would you please post it?

I suspect that a club founded by a produce peddler (though a very erudite one) with a quirky (but highly effective) swing would open its doors to an old hack from the golfing wilderness of Texas. Or is Papazian Hills like Cypress Point in that by merely posing the question (as to membership), one ensures a negative outcome?  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Tom MacWood (Guest) on May 29, 2002, 09:54:02 PM
I enjoy the 'membership' at a large university Golf course. Teachers, students and alumni from all over the globe that is in a constant state of flux. They may have their own unique backgrounds, disciplines, areas of interest (which makes it fascinating) but they all have one thing in common - they enjoy golf.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: nuzzo on May 29, 2002, 10:08:37 PM
I'd like to amend that the caddies don't have to be students, just not the high end corporate trained caddies.  The club should not skim from their gross, they get the whole cut.
Only 4 carts on the premises for the real old or physically challenged (one has one of those swivel seats for the really injured).  They can be reserved in advance.
No tee times.
My vote is for a private club.  But unescorted guests are invited to play, if they ask appropriately.
How about no rakes?
Cheers.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Tim weiman on May 29, 2002, 10:46:43 PM
Gib:

This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

It's awfully nice to go out on a Saturday afternoon and see very few other people on the course.

A luxury, but it really makes the "walk in the park".

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Lou Duran on May 30, 2002, 07:10:02 AM
Ditto Tom MacWoods comments.   The diversity of backgrounds, professions, and interests among the golfers at OSU made it a very special place.  My "regular" group consisted of an always changing 20+ guys ranging from students like myself, to professors, social workers, attorneys, doctors, small business owners, salesman, retirees, etc.  We all competed, argued heatedly, and, generally, got along famously.   Our love of golf and the Scarlet course made the considerable differences in age, wealth, and professional status trully insignificant.  In hindsight, perhaps the crowded conditions and less than ideal maintenance were small prices to pay.   It would be an honor to be a member at The Golf Club.  But I wonder if it would be as much fun.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: THuckaby2 on May 30, 2002, 07:52:51 AM
This is all great stuff.  The only point I will argue with the Armenian - who seems to really have this nailed - is that he  NEEDS to meet Ed Baker.  Once he does, Mr. Baker will be on the Membership Committee at Papazian Hills (which would be Baker and Huntley).  Dave Miller was dead solid perfect right on in his post, by my take.  I'd pay each of those two to join any club I formed!

By the way, for those who have met each of John Bernhardt and Ed Baker, are they not brothers separated at birth?  That's a meeting that MUST, MUST, MUST happen.  The fact that each of them is just plain a great guy makes this even cooler...

TH



Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Kevin_Reilly on May 30, 2002, 09:23:42 AM

Quote
This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

I fit that profile to a tee!  The only time I'm able to play is at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays at a local course with some friends, while I play monthly fees somewhere else.  They need more people like me!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Tim Weiman on May 30, 2002, 09:38:57 AM
Kevin Reilly:

I should probably give credit to Bobby Ranum the superintendent at the Atlantic Golf Club.

Bobby once told me a story about him spending a day with his counterpart at Pine Valley.

When they finshed up playing, the Pine Valley guy said to Bobby: "Isn't this a great place?".

Bobby startled his host by replying: "No, I really don't think so".

"Why is that?", the Pine Valley guy asked.

"Well", Bobby told him, "it is just not my idea of a golf club".

Naturally, the Pine Valley host was quite taken back.  So, Bobby further explained:

"My idea of a golf club is where you can go play golf......whenever you want......at Pine Valley, you can't do that".

I hate to knock Pine Valley, but do think Bobby Ranum had a point.  Interestingly, a golf club like Ballybunion is cutting back outside play because, guess what, their members want to play golf!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 30, 2002, 01:17:30 PM
Tim,
I'd like to think that having 36 holes of outstanding golf would ease the overcrowding problem. Somehow, Sunningdale always comes to mind when I conjure up an idyllic setting with 36 holes.

The "New Course" is a Harry Colt. I love it.

Lou,

Somehow, it is tough to envision Papazian Hills suffering from "Augusta National" type snobbery. If you want to be a member, there is no harm in asking, eh?

Besides, Huckster has already proposed you for membership.

I would hope one of the first inductees is the mythical "Pizza Delivery Man." Somehow, he is exactly what I had in mind for Papazian Hills.

Since I have already established that there will be no absolute rules, the requirement of a case of vino will not be necessary.  Instead, pepperoni pizzas for the clubhouse during the final round of all Majors will be fine.

I also like the idea of an international membership - not just to collect dues from guys who are rarely there - but because I glean a lot of perspective from other parts of the country and world.

Following our Barona junket, Shivas, Barnhardt and I stopped off at an outdoor eatery on the beach north of San Diego. As is often the case with guys I've met from the Treehouse, the conversation was both fascinating and meandered far afield of golf architecture.

Chicago, Louisiana and Burlingame . . . . three completely different worlds.

Most of the GCA gang seem to have an inquisitive quality about everything - golf is just the thread that binds us together.

So, I do not want to give the impression that Papazian Hills will be comprised of architecture addicts to the exclusion of everything else, because the most memorable conversations I have had with Treehouse dwellers have been while playing golf . . . . but not necessarily *about* golf.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 30, 2002, 02:12:45 PM
Dave,

Sorry to disagree with the Aronomink comparison. If first impressions make any difference - and perhaps this is unfair - that was about the coldest place I have ever been in my life.

We were guests of the pro and came into the grill for a beer and a look at all the Jay Siegel memorabilia. There was a group of guys our age standing at the bar in an otherwise empty room.

My buddy politely inquired about some of the plaques and trophies on the wall . . . something about there appearing to be two club championships as if Siegel had started another one himself.

Silence.


We had taken our hats off, were dressed appropriately and for some reason were stared down by these snots as if a pair of cockroaches had just crawled under the door.

Finally the bartender broke the uncomfortable silence and answered our question.

We asked if it was preferrable for the club to take cash for our drinks or just sign it to Olympic. The bartender just rolled his eyes about the members who were evidently too good to talk to us and waved his hand that we ought not worry about it.

Still silence.

I recall we left two untouched beers on the bar, got in the car and drove away, never to return.

Now, contrast that two days later at Winged Foot.

The pro set up a game for us on  the West course with a couple of members - also around our age and pretty good players.

After three hours of joke and story telling in the bar, this pair insisted we accompany them to a swank Westchester party that evening and before we knew it, they had arranged a tee time on the East course for the next day.

Never had that much fun in my life! It was the essence of what I would hope happens to everyone who comes to Papazian Hills (this is beginning to take on a life of its own in my mind).

Naturally, a year later, they came out from Winged Foot for a few days in San Francisco and we have remained friends since.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: THuckaby2 on May 30, 2002, 02:25:43 PM
Very interesting how one can receive a cold impression at certain clubs... it hasn't happened much to me, but it has happened.  The worst ever for me was Chicago GC, but I have learned since that it must have been a bad day or something so I can give them the benefit of the doubt.

On the much more positive side, here are some private clubs that I've been to that have this "welcoming/fun/non-pretensious" feel that would be fine models for Papazian Hills:

Basically any club in Ireland

Most in Scotland, with some obvious exceptions (Muirfield, though heck, they were nice to me there even - just a little too many rules for how Papazian Hills should be).

Monterey Peninsula CC
Olympic Club (surprise!)
Cypress Point Club (yes! ok, I've only been there twice, but it amazed me how welcoming everyone was once you were inside the gates)
Lehigh CC
Yale University GC
Charles River CC!!!

There are likely many more, but those are at the top of the list or at least the ones I can think of right now.  Any of those would be a fine model for Papazian Hills, at least in this respect, by my very limited take anyway.

TH



Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Scott_Burroughs on May 31, 2002, 07:49:57 AM
This thread, especially the first page, is a riot.  But still a fun exercise.  Who doesn't dream of this?

My 2 cents:

Walking mandatory.  Caddie program, certainly not mandatory.  Taking caddies seems to restrict conversation between players, I've experienced, not to mention I very rarely play well when taking a caddie for some reason.  But when you take caddies, no money changes hands, like at PVGC.  Pay comes from an annual donation fund.  Caddies can play almost anytime, like at Chechessee Creek.

Trolleys certainly allowed, though I've personally never used one.

At least 36 holes, one prairie like, the other parkland (hey, I like parkland courses, OK?)

No tee times.

Plenty of drinking water on course.

I also like holes/nines that return near clubhouse.  Not everyone has time to play 18.  Also, it's so you can start on empty holes if #1 is crowded (my m.o. almost every time I play my course).

One feature I was surprised no one mentioned was housing.  Absolutely no housing within sight of the course.  Not even the on site cabins.  come to think of it just make it like Bandon, where the pro shop is the same building as the hotel, which would be the on-site member/guest housing.  The togetherness of the dorm-like atmosphere, with the bar at the bottom of the stairs is great.

Maintenance paths are like at Kiawah-Ocean.  Hard sand paths that can be played from w/o damaging club.  (My biggest dissappointment at Pacific Dunes was the rock maintenance paths, second is the railroad ties walking paths).  Try not damaging your club on those maintenance paths, which supposedly must be played from w/o incurring a penalty.

There are "older" golf history/knowledge/story tellers like Linc Rhoden, Bob Huntley, and Harvey Penick around to tap for great bar room stuff.

Overhead, high pressure showers like at Saucon Valley.

Last big wish/dream:  my daughter and 2nd child grow up to love and appreciate the game like I do, thus I can play side-by-side with them, bags on back, at this wonderful club.


Comments about others' comments/wishes:

Neal, good call on the parking lot.  I like those when I encounter them.

Shivas, good call on the governors on the doctor-allowed-only carts.

Wigler, good call on the environmental restrictions, there will be none at this club.

Lynn, a requirement to travel abroad every year is fine for those like yourself with grown up children, but many of us with young children just can't get away for long periods of time.  Not to mention that not everyone can afford overseas trips.

Gib, not everyone is a wine drinker/lover.  I'm a dark beer and ale kind of guy.  Oregon's own Black Butte Porter, my fave, would always be on tap at my club (not called Papazian Hills, of course  ;D ).

And about your (Gib's) experience with the guys at Winged Foot, that's what I've experienced with guys on this board.  Wonderful.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: A_Clay_Man on May 31, 2002, 07:59:57 AM
Ok Ok enough of this wishing your life away.

Make it happen!

Why not.? Green onions look good this august, ayhuh Gib?

There ought to be an acceptable bankrupt course out there where acquisition costs will be pennies on the $. and turning it into Gib hills should be a breeze for the amount of knowledgable equipted arborial types that will no longer post here due to spending all their time at the Gibsters.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Don_Mahaffey on May 31, 2002, 08:21:48 AM
Adam,
You’re right on. With the present downturn in golf, there are lots of course selling for 25% - 50% less then what they cost to develop. Think of the advantages of buying an existing course, no permitting, no zoning BS, utilities on site, maintenance building and equipment on site, water source available...Lots of positives.

The negatives, assuming we would want to completely redo the course, acquisition costs would probably be higher then raw land, and natural features may have been ruined by original construction. It would seem to me that the biggest advantage would be all the red tape would have already been cut. That's a big deal in time and money. I wonder if any architects here have ever taken a golf property and completely started over from scratch?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 11:38:33 AM
Don,
Our Ocean Course is a complete redo, but it is easier to do on sand based property.

Scott,
Papazian Hills will have all sorts of beers on tap and you are perfectly welcome to donate a keg or two instead of a case of vino.

You might start with Whitbread Lager  . . . the club's founder is a lager guy :D

Budweiser is still classified as toxic waste.  

That said, I do not want the vino to become a financial issue for the members.

Because this is not a snobby club, there will be a list of banned wines.

Anybody who donates something obnoxious like Screaming Eagle or Opus 1 will have the case auctioned off on e-bay with the proceeds donated to the widows and orphans fund.

Like the golf course(s) itself, the wine list will be full of unexpected discoveries. We will have a yearly event with a blind test to determine the best wine for the cheapest cost.

This encourages the kind of thrift that keeps clubs financially healthy.

**********************************************

I haven't seen a lot of mention about local schools. Coaching golf is one of the great joys (and frustrations) of my life and the local squad will have absolute access at any time during the season, including all practice facilities.

One the the more galling things about the modern era is the culture of selfishness that has posioned the local clubs in my area. Many of the clubs only allow the kids to play during official matches. . . . nice home course advantage, huh?

Papazian Hills will have a high school, college and even junior high team. Plus, we will have a junior team of our own to kick ass on the other clubs.

Once a month all the junior players will be required to assemble with Rich Spear (our Superintendent) and sand every single divot and fix every single imperfectly repaired ball mark on both courses. . . . . and that includes the coaches.

Final thought: Group Captain Pierce will have absolute powers, so anybody who comes off the street and respectfully asks to play - whether they are a member of a private club or not - can be granted access at the discretion of the Club Secretary.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Scott_Burroughs on May 31, 2002, 12:01:06 PM
The names of some so-called wines are a riot.  Screaming Eagle?  Opus 1?  Anything like Mad Dog 20/20 or Night Train  :P ?  

Of course, I should talk.  There was a time in my youth when I thought Chateaubriand was a French wine.   :-[
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 12:46:42 PM
Precisely my point Scott.

There are idoots out there who willingly pay 250 dollars a bottle for Screaming Eagle or Opus 1. . . . and make a big show of it.

These are the kind of bozos who coughed up $425,000 dollars to join Los Altos Hills CC as some kind of twisted exercise in social climbing and demonstration of conspicuous wealth.

I do not want the slightest suggestion at Papazian Hills that one's financial status makes the slightest difference. The goal is for the Pizza Delivery Man to have a regular game with Pat Mucci or Tom Paul.

As a matter of fact, no cash accepted on the premises, with one exception.

We do away with signing chits altogether except for caddys. Members who buy balls, equipment, drinks or food are simply billed.

The club gets no cut on caddy fees. After the round, the member goes into the clubhouse, fills out a card and the caddy is immediately reimbursed in cash.

Sometimes kids need the dough for a date.    


  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Scott_Burroughs on May 31, 2002, 01:06:06 PM
It's interesting that your caddies will be "kids".  Of the (only) 7 rounds I've played with a caddie (all within the last 4 years and all but 2 in the past year), I'll bet not one of my caddies was younger than me (I'm 34).
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Dan Kelly on May 31, 2002, 01:35:50 PM
Gib --

Thanks for spelling out that exception. I must confess that a different sort of transaction leapt to mind.  ::)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 01:51:43 PM
Nah, not just kids. I learned a lot from the older caddys when I was a kid. How to calculate yardages, where to stand, the right way to rake a bunker, how to read a racing form, where to buy cheap beer, how to play poker and whist . . . . I have no illusions any longer about the younger generation. We had a tough time getting new blood in our caddy yards at Olympic because kids today tend to be lazy.

Truth be told, I like a nice mix. At Piping Rock a couple weeks back I had a really nice kid - good player too - who was a terrific caddy. He figured out what club I ought to hit just watching me hit a few balls on the range.  

But then there is Timmonds at NGLA. Papazian Hills must have a few guys out there for so long they eventually become an institution. They can be crackers in the head - but that is part of the fun!  To have a really strange or unique character as your caddy.

Plus, I would sure like to have some girl's in the caddy shack also. Even if they were little and wanted to take a pull cart. I know when I was 12 years old, there were some trunks that were too big to drag around.

As a matter of fact, we will ban those enormous bags altogether. Caddys are not pack mules.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Kevin_Reilly on May 31, 2002, 01:54:28 PM
I'm right with you on that one, Dan.  Different kind of date.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: A_Clay_Man on May 31, 2002, 02:02:52 PM
What if the member bought the case of Opus 1 at a garage sale for $20.00?


True story
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: A_Clay_Man on May 31, 2002, 02:03:46 PM
oh yeah.

It was a 1981

OUCH
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 02:13:43 PM
Dan,
Those "other transactions" used to happen all the time in bygone eras. I know of one famous club that once kept a stable of kittens for the members.

That brings up an interesting point though. There is a rather tony club in the South Bay with oppulent cabanas for the members and their guests. Evidently, they have become a revolving door for the extra-cirricular activities of some of the married Silicon Valley executives.

We will not make any moral judgements at Papazian Hills, but this is a golf club and enclave, not a place to stash a bunch of bimbos, tramps and ding-a-lings. Therefore, The Club Secretary will be instructed to have a word with any member unclear on the purpose of our rooms.

Adam,
That is like buying a George Low Wizard at a garage sale for $5. In that case, it makes such a good story that we will let it slide.  
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Dan Kelly on May 31, 2002, 02:23:46 PM
Gib --

"Not a place to stash a bunch of bimbos, tramps and ding-a-lings."

Fine. Not my style, anyway.

But "no moral judgments"?

Now you've gone WAY too far!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Rick Shefchik on May 31, 2002, 02:54:28 PM
Gib -- That's the way my son gets paid when he caddies at White Bear Yacht Club in the Twin Cities. Needless to say, he thinks it's a fine system.

One thing about the caddies at Papazian Hills -- someone mentioned earlier that once a year, the caddies would be  allowed to vote a member (or was it three?) out of the club. I thought that was a wonderful suggestion -- one of the best on this thread -- but on further reflection I think it should be tempered somewhat. There will be an annual vote among the caddies, but it will be tallied like baseball's Hall of Fame voting: a member needs a certain percentage of the vote -- say 50 percent -- to be expelled.

If this is the kind of club we envision it to be, none of the members will be the type who will mistreat caddies, so there would likely be no need to expell someone every year.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 02:57:54 PM
Dan,

Okay okay . . . . we have already made plenty of moral judgements already.

I just had visions of some half-dressed floozy traipsing in from one of the bedrooms to refill her martini glass during the Masters telecast.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 03:18:58 PM
Rick,

The genesis for that idea came from a piece Michael M. Thomas wrote a few years back in Golf Digest entitled "How to Save Your Club." It is the best article I have ever read in a golf magazine and it would be a perfect "In My Opinion Piece" for this website.

The gist of it was that the employees could band together and vote out a member every year. A wonderful thought for P-Hills - but our Club Secretary will deal harshly with members who consistently abuse the employees.

There is a woman I played with last year at one of the nations most prestigious clubs. The day before my friend (also a poster but I don't want to give anything away) and I play unaccompanied with a terrific caddy.

We mentioned that through a scheduling quirk, we were going to play the next day with a member and would he caddy for us? He said he would love to (we are good tippers besides) and asked who we were playing with.

I gave him the name (somebody I had never met) of the member and he told us he was sorry, but as much as he liked us, he was not going "put up with that f*cking bitch for eighteen holes."

We thought that was a bit strange, but chalked it up to a bad incident from the past or a misunderstanding.

Well, the next day, this looney woman shows up, rustles up some caddies and off we went.

No sooner were we in the fairway on the first hole and she is SCREAMING  and BERATING this one caddy because he could not find one of the balls in the weeds.

And she kept it up, nearly putting this poor boy (maybe 15 or 16 years old) in tears. Finally, after the 7th hole, I took her aside and sort of gently told her that because I was a young caddy once that "maybe we can switch and I'll teach him a few things."

It was just to get this poor kid away from this crazy woman and give her a way to save face. This kid tried soooooo hard and was literally shell-shocked.  

"Absolutely not," she snapped, "you are my guest and as a member it is my responsibility to teach this caddy the right way to do his job."

She never let up for 18 holes on this boy and I found out later that none of the more experienced caddies would even pack if she was in the group.

So, this kid gets thrown to the wolf  because nobody else will do it and from what I understand, this kind of behavior is nothing unusual for her. . . . nobody has ever had the guts to straighten her out.

She has been a member her entire life (trust fund baby) and evidently has been abusing caddies for years and years.

The funny thing is that she treated us so well and could not have been more gracious. . . . . but if I was that kid,  I would have shoved those clubs right in her bottom and walked off  the course after the first hole.

The point is, she would have been voted out years ago and the club would be far better off.

I am actually frightened of what may happen if she came to Olympic.              


P.S. At one point, I thought of the "How to Save Your Club" piece (expressing my admiration for his work) when we were playing and asked her if she knew the author - he is quite prominent in their neck of the woods.

It turns out she knows him well and absolutely hates his guts -something about him being "nasty to people." It makes me want to meet him all the more.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: JakaB on May 31, 2002, 03:35:34 PM
Gib or any other witted Armenian,

I have heard the miserable member story before...do you have any terrible caddie stories to share?
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bill Wright on May 31, 2002, 09:26:37 PM
Any club I'm affiliated with wouldn't admit any person who names or allows someone else to name a golf club after himself or herself.  Humility's a good thing.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 31, 2002, 09:59:05 PM
You know Bill, it is kind of funny but I had that exact thought yesterday . . . . . there is zero chance I would ever name a golf course after myself.

Plus, let's face it, Papazian is a clumsy and difficult to pronounce name for a golf club. I think it just sort of evolved as a "working moniker" for this entity.

I hereby change the name to Redan Hills GC - not Country Club, Golf Club.

That way, if Huntley thinks you are okay and the brim of your hat is facing the correct direction on the golf course, you can be a member too.

You might think about registering though. It is tough to amass many stars on GCA if you are only a "Guest."
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: TEPaul on June 01, 2002, 01:29:33 AM
GibP:

Every golf club needs a simple and effective way of checking out member candidates.

I would vote for the one who doesn't say a word nor changes expression one iota when that half dressed floozy traipses in fills her martini glass and traipses back out during Masters telecast.
Title: Re:You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Brian_Gracely on January 07, 2005, 12:34:45 PM
(bump)

One of my favorite GCA threads.  

I'd love to see a discussion like this include some folks that have a clue about what it would take to actually build this club, assuming some different parts of the coutnry (or world).  What are the list of issues (aside from where the Redan should be placed) that Gib would have needed to consider.
Title: Re:You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Sean_A on January 07, 2005, 06:57:24 PM
Interesting thread.  At the risk of being a crusty old bastard...

Course must be playable 12 months a year, lovely and varied.  This excludes cold climates boys!  Course and clubhouse must have stunning view.

There is no pro or proshop.  Basic products can be bought in the secretary's office.  The secretary will determine what is basic. 

There is full catering (the caterer lives on the property), but it is rather basic during the week.  Friday and Saturday the menu is more varied.  There is a Sunday lunch every Sunday to coincide with a Sunday Throwup.  The time changes with the season.  Of course, if you would like something special on anyday (except for Sunday), then request it (perhaps 36 hours in advance) and it can happen.

The club does have a captain who is elected by the membership.  The club is basically run by the captain, secretary and green keeper. 

There are no tee times except for comps.  There is at least one comp. a month.  It is mandatory to play at least four comps for handicapping purposes.  For every comp. short of the minimum there is a required 2 shot cut in handicap.

Clubhouse is comfortable and classy, yet understated.  Plenty of wood and leather-cigars welcome in the smoking/card  room.  There is a bar.  There are no waitresses for drink, unless you are eating.  There are drinking (perhaps a fridge or BYO and card playing facilities in the locker room.  There are also 12 twin rooms for overnight stay.

Membership is not based on ability, but 18 handicap is the max.  Once a member, your handicap can go higher than 18 without fear of dismissal.  Once a player has played as a guest for at least 12 games spanning no more than two years, then their name can be put forward for membership to be voted on at the annual AGM (secret ballot of course) during the same time as the Captain Drive In (an important comp.). 

Membership is restricted to 500 full members, 75 country members and 25 overseas members.  Country members must live at least 100 miles from the club.  There are no annual dues.  The total bill for the year is simply divided and paid.  Country members pay 50% and overseas members pay 25% of the full members' bill.  Members' children are allowed to play (both sexes) for free until the age 16.  At this point they must be voted in at an AGM (though they can re-apply for membership at later AGMs).  For the girls, well it's time to find another club to join.  The price for this intermediate category (age 16-21) is the same as overseas fees. There is no restriction on the number of intermediate members.  At the age of 21, intermediate members become full members if they wish and there is space available.  A wait list will be kept and they have first priority of membership at each AGM.

There are probably a few more things, but it is difficult to think of them in one go.

Ciao
Title: Re:You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Zack Kelly on January 07, 2005, 08:34:50 PM
What a great idea I wish I could build my own course, here goes my plans,
Very simple private golf only, of course, small shop, with good size locker room and simple grill.  Without a question no women men only.  Getting in would be simple just display your love and desire for the game and be able to break 90.  Would be somewhere that could be open all year.  No carts, caddies only. Greens super would be the the key decision maker on the golf course decisions no committees.  Absolutely no outside play unless sponsored by member.  Membership is maxed out at 250.  I would have 3 levels of membership, local, national, and jr national.  Just a little of what I would have.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 02, 2014, 09:14:43 AM
Singapore Golf Club

1. 500-700 individual members (all with voting rights) I make the final decision  

2. Caddies and trolley's welcomed.  $10 cart fees for 65 and older/truly handicapped people.

3. $1800 a year dues, no progressive brackets, everyone votes.  $500 for each kid, no pool, no racquets.  No food min.

4.  all employees have access at the discretion of the pro(s).  off the clock.

5.  Mondays is open to the public after 10AM, members have to pay on Monday if they want to play.  They get course other 6 days.

6.  If caddies/employees deem you to be slow you lose your playing privileges!
6b. If you play the front 9 in over 2 hours you will be caned on the 10th tee!

7.  Very small locker rooms.  Changing shoes in parking lot is okay, shirt is not!  Mixed grill, no dinning room, single story clubhouse.  

8.  Pro is allowed to teach outside the club at the club, he actually makes his income teaching (wow how old school is that)!

9.  there will be a mandatory member maint program where people will have to get their hands dirty, trimming trees, additional drainage, exc.

10.  No hats allowed in clubhouse and no jeans.  People that prescribe to the ME generation will not be welcomed.

some amendments
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Michael Felton on May 02, 2014, 01:52:36 PM
Wonderful stuff. Some of my thoughts:

I would have an awesome short game practice facility near the clubhouse and the first tee. I would also have a vast long game facility including two wide open nice and easy holes that people could play to warm up. There would be no tee times, so people who elected to play those two holes would be treated as having a place on the first tee as if they had not.

It would be basically private, but visitor play would be permitted and there would be a minimal green fee for that. In order to be allowed to play they would have to write a letter explaining why they should be permitted to play the course. If I like what they say, then they get on. Weekdays only though.

I like a lot of what Gib had to say throughout, so some of this is inspired by what he had to say.

I would have free booze in the bar. No one pays for anything. The only requirement is that you have to drink whatever you get on the premises and anyone doing anything stupid would be held responsible for it whether drunk or not. Members would be expected to replenish stocks out of their own pocket if they brought guests.

In the bar I would have some holes cut into the carpet/ground and have a selection of putters out there. That way people who ended up with their matches halved could have a putt off in the bar while they have a drink. I would also have some ultra high end premium liquor (Louis XIII or similar) and have a game for members to play. In order to play, they would have to stick $20 in the staff Christmas fund and then they get a putt of let's say 3 feet. If they make it, they get a shot of the Louis XIII. If they miss, they have to provide a bottle to the club to keep the game afloat. I think if someone missed and provided the bottle, then they would be permitted to have a drink of it any time they came in until the current bottle has run out.

The chairs in the bar would be plush leather ones that you need help to get out of. Anyone who has sat in the chairs in the bar at Royal St Georges next to the model of the 6th hole will know what I mean. I will have to think about whether I require jackets in the bar. I'm actually quite tempted.

The membership would be fairly small. I'm thinking around 200 people. I would want them to be local. I would want them to be there regularly so that everyone would know everyone and we'd have roll ups on weekend mornings with groups selected at random.

I'd have 36 holes. 18 done by Tom Doak and the other 18 by Coore and Crenshaw. Obviously the land would be so spectacular that they'd have to say yes. Then they'd get really, really fed up with me telling them what I wanted...

Above all, I would want the courses to fit the landscape and look natural.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Matthew Lloyd on May 02, 2014, 04:54:24 PM
This is the first I've seen of this thread - glad to see it's been resurfaced though as it's my favorite one thus far.  If I could create my own club I'd follow these guidelines:

(1) Semi-private
(2) 36 holes, with the option to keep one private access only per day
(3) Remote location to inherently prevent public crowds from taking over
(4) 300-400 members, about half local, half national
(5) no pool or other country club type amenities - golf only
(6) no initiation fee (to encourage younger, cash-poor golfers that will sustain the club 25+ years from now)
(7) annual dues of less than $3K (see previous comment about young cash-poor golfers)
(8) walking only - carts optional
(9) cabins on site for lodging
(10) small clubhouse (modeled after Belvedere in Charlevoix, MI)

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Garland Bayley on May 02, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Those that make my target score in one of the following GRE tests

    Biochemistry, Cell and Molecular Biology
    Biology
    Chemistry
    Mathematics
    Physics
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Jud_T on May 02, 2014, 06:32:26 PM
Anybody who whines about not having all the fees posted online doesn't get in...

Anybody who inquires about our Golf Digest Ranking doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks where the bag boy is at the bag drop doesn't get in....

Anyone who insists on putting out after being given a putt in a match to see what their "real" medal score is doesn't get in...

Anyone who plays tees over 6500 yards and can't break 90 doesn't get in...

Anyone who sandbags doesn't get in...

Anyone who doesn't play ready golf doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't finish in at least 4 hours doesn't get in.

Anyone who doesn't let faster groups through doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks for a light beer doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of ice dancing, rhythm gymnastics or figure skating doesn't get in...

Anyone who wears more than 2 different logos doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of Dancing with the Stars doesn't get in...

Anyone who's never heard of Charlie Parker, Samuel Beckett or the Velvet Underground doesn't get in...

Anyone who complains about the music, food or drink in the clubhouse doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't put their cell phone away for more than 15 minutes doesn't get in...

Anyone who treats anyone, including the staff, like second class citizens doesn't get in...

Anyone I don't like doesn't get in...
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Joe_Tucholski on May 02, 2014, 06:54:23 PM
Honestly if I was starting my own club it wouldn't be much of a club.  Gib indicated that finances weren't an issue.  If that were the case I would have my own golf course.  Trying to maintain rules and manage people sounds like work and as much as I enjoy golf I don't want it to turn into work.  I wouldn't have a clubhouse, a bar or employees (maybe a single employee to maintain the course).  I imagine it would be scruffy.  Even though costs aren't an issue I would prefer it scruffy, one so I wouldn't feel wasteful and two to keep it from attaining status as a must play where it would become a hassle dealing with large number of people seeking access.  Something kind of like sheep ranch but bigger and next to my house.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Greg Tallman on May 02, 2014, 06:57:37 PM
Anybody who whines about not having all the fees posted online doesn't get in...

Anybody who inquires about our Golf Digest Ranking doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks where the bag boy is at the bag drop doesn't get in....

Anyone who insists on putting out after being given a putt in a match to see what their "real" medal score is doesn't get in...

Anyone who plays tees over 6500 yards and can't break 90 doesn't get in...

Anyone who sandbags doesn't get in...

Anyone who doesn't play ready golf doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't finish in at least 4 hours doesn't get in.

Anyone who doesn't let faster groups through doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks for a light beer doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of ice dancing, rhythm gymnastics or figure skating doesn't get in...

Anyone who wears more than 2 different logos doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of Dancing with the Stars doesn't get in...

Anyone who's never heard of Charlie Parker, Samuel Beckett or the Velvet Underground doesn't get in...

Anyone who complains about the music, food or drink in the clubhouse doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't put their cell phone away for more than 15 minutes doesn't get in...

Anyone who treats anyone, including the staff, like second class citizens doesn't get in...

Anyone I don't like doesn't get in...


Damn, so close
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Nigel Islam on May 02, 2014, 07:12:33 PM
Anybody who whines about not having all the fees posted online doesn't get in...

Anybody who inquires about our Golf Digest Ranking doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks where the bag boy is at the bag drop doesn't get in....

Anyone who insists on putting out after being given a putt in a match to see what their "real" medal score is doesn't get in...

Anyone who plays tees over 6500 yards and can't break 90 doesn't get in...

Anyone who sandbags doesn't get in...

Anyone who doesn't play ready golf doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't finish in at least 4 hours doesn't get in.

Anyone who doesn't let faster groups through doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks for a light beer doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of ice dancing, rhythm gymnastics or figure skating doesn't get in...

Anyone who wears more than 2 different logos doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of Dancing with the Stars doesn't get in...

Anyone who's never heard of Charlie Parker, Samuel Beckett or the Velvet Underground doesn't get in...

Anyone who complains about the music, food or drink in the clubhouse doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't put their cell phone away for more than 15 minutes doesn't get in...

Anyone who treats anyone, including the staff, like second class citizens doesn't get in...

Anyone I don't like doesn't get in...


Damn, so close

I was too until I got to Charlie Parker. Time to get on Wikipedia on my phone for at least 15 minutes
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Paul Gray on May 02, 2014, 07:15:14 PM
Jud,

At the risk of breaching the unwritten rule regarding invitations, please, please let me join your golf club.

And BCowan,

Welcome to a British golf club.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Mike Sweeney on May 03, 2014, 07:19:06 AM
Rob Curtiss

Took his lumps like a man on another thread and it turned into a Top 100 invitation. Genius!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Niall C on May 03, 2014, 07:44:02 AM
Course - would need to be links and preferably with a second course adjoining such that it is easy to skip between the two and make up your own routing (thinking Lossiemouth here). Hardly any walk between holes. No boundary fence, if someone wants to walk across the course to get to the beach then let them. No blaes/gravel paths, as little signage as possible.

Clubhouse - ideally stone built a hundred odd years ago, should be less than an ideal layout with enough compromises to be made to make it quirky (thinking Kilspindie). Dress code, casual will do.

Staff - minimal amount of employees with no uniforms, club logos etc, and definitely no caddies or indeed ride on buggies.

Now who gets in ? Well anyone who is happy to golf all year round, is happy to tee it up in all sorts of weather, doesn't mind joining up with other golfers he (or she) doesn't know, who will happily buy a round at the bar afterwards (or before), isn't at all stuck up about prestige and is only in it for the golf and a bit of company. Anyone who fits that general profile would be good enough for me.

Niall

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 03, 2014, 08:11:49 AM
''I was too until I got to Charlie Parker''

Donna Lee
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bob_Garvelink on May 03, 2014, 09:02:19 AM
Course Name: Royale with Cheese

Course Info:  Heavily wooded Northern Michigan course with extreme elevation change.  There would be a number of elevated tee shots and all par 3"s would be less than 170 yes.  Additionally, the course would be short with the tips maxing out at 6500 yards and the member tees being around 6200 yds.  Greens would be lack major undulation but would roll faster than the winner of the Indy 500.  I would prefer the par 5's to be reachable in two for big hitters and a few par 4's that are reachable off the tee.  This would be a course where accuracy off the tee is essential.

ClubHouse:  very simple cabin with small bar

Favorite Dining option: Royale with Cheese

Who's Allowed to Golf?  Anybody

Cost $2500 a year for family or $45 greens fee with $30 twighlight

Dress: No denim but changing shoes in Parking lot is a must!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Terry Lavin on May 03, 2014, 09:06:58 AM
A course with drama, fun and excitement on a piece of dunesland that provides a brisk walk, as no carts will be allowed. A small clubhouse whose minimalist design will be in harmony with the course it serves. A professional staff that doesn't necessarily include a PGA professional. In fact, I'd go with grinder golfer types to run the show because they will understand that the allure of the club is the competition and fun on the golf course. For food, we'll have the pros cook burgers, sausage and chicken on outside grills, because we won't need a kitchen. Keep the membership under 100 most of whom are members elsewhere, to keep the volume of play at a nice level.  I'd make the course a nine-holer which saves on the maintenance and makes it a little different. And as an act of goodwill, I won't charge for the first three guests they bring out any day of the week.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Terry Lavin on May 03, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm already a member of that club, the Dunes Club in New Buffalo, Michigan. Thank you, Mike Keiser.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on May 03, 2014, 11:12:24 AM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BHoover on May 03, 2014, 11:16:07 AM
I would hire the GolfNow.com Old Tom Morris to serve as the official starter.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Carl Nichols on May 03, 2014, 12:01:20 PM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on May 03, 2014, 12:17:32 PM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: RJ_Daley on May 03, 2014, 01:31:25 PM
I'm happy to say I haven't changed my mind after 12 years and 106 posts later... ::) ;) ;D 8)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: JMEvensky on May 03, 2014, 02:02:07 PM


Course Name: Royale with Cheese



Favorite Dining option: Royale with Cheese



Pulp Fiction references should always be highlighted.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Carl Johnson on May 03, 2014, 04:08:00 PM
Question: I start my own club (that is, it's private and I own it).  Who gets in?  That is, what are the membership requirements?

No limitations based on the usual no, no's, such as race, religion, age, sex, sexual preference, disability, political affiliation.

However, jerks, a--holes, loud-mouths, perpetual whiners and those who exhibit prejudices based on any of the above shall not be admitted.

Must exhibit an interest in playing golf according to the USGA rules and traditional etiquette.

I have the final say - as a membership committee of one - based on such other criteria as I deem appropriate on a case to case basis.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Gib_Papazian on May 03, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
I'll echo the sentiments of Dick Daley that my opinions have not changed much in the last 12 years, especially watching the dilution of my home base by a conga-ling of 30-something, cigar smoking, hubris-infested money changers; nothing was ever the same after the government slithered into our door and I see no hope cleansing our temple of blowfish who have no clue the difference between an intimate golfing enclave and an overblown, CCFAD factory. Thank gawd most of them refuse to play the Ocean Course.

Santa Gib is keeping a list of whose been naughty and nice; let me assure you there will be no clown boys allowed at Redan Hills.  If you're going to trumpet the need to grow the game, be careful which orifice you shove the mouthpiece into. I recall a "When Golf Was Good" thread many years ago and the older I get the more tearfully I recall the good old days.

The one thing I would change from the previous era was the level of racial and religious prejudice, of which there would be none at Redan Hills. Donald Sterling may have been set up by a whore and I hope for the sake of America he is not forced to sell his team, but he's also not getting into my club under any circumstances under the "no assholes" rule. Trump is out too. I may admire his determination, moxie and chutzpah, but not in my grill room.

Come to think of it, the best teacher by 100 miles at my club is a black dude who I've always thought would my first choice as Head Pro at Redan Hills. I wonder how long he's going to have to wait for the plum job he deserves; it seems like half the club pro's I meet are empty-headed schmucks who look and sound like extras in a surf movie. The bleach job with too much hair jell always gives it away.

It occurred to me that after starting this thread, I rewrote part of it as a column for ANG News/Times. As I recall, we got quite a bit of comment about it, including an angry letter from an insane lesbian who was offended I had not specifically mentioned gender neutrality. She was an older gal from one of the local women's golf clubs and even took the time to complain to my editor - who happened to be the legendary Dave Burgin. Dave told me I ought not be surprised people get pissed off with some of the inflammatory shit I put in print.

One thing I did add to the column was an unconditional ban on politicians. "Party affiliation is irrelevant, no exceptions." Since what seems like half the California Legislature is facing charges of corruption, graft, tax evasion and even offshore gun running, it appears my absolute distaste for the slime balls who run our once-great state is well founded. I've amended the bylaws that politicians are unwelcome as guests and not allowed to set foot on the property. See Louise Renne and the Olympic Club - "Exhibit A."

As a retort to my column, my expat brother Rhic Goodale penned his own version I ran the next week - and then promptly moved back to Scotland for good.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE FORWARD TO ANG SPORTS. THIS IS A GOLF COLUMN FOR THE TUESDAY SAN MATEO TIMES.
By Gib Papazian

Several weeks ago, we conjured up mythical Redan Hills Golf Club from the best ideas over a lifetime of experiences. Apparently, the idea of starting a club is a fantasy shared by many of our readers. We are still receiving responses and suggestions about a column that has somehow taken on a life of its own.

Richard Goodale, a longtime reader and friend, sent us a retort so impossibly clever I feel compelled to print it for your enjoyment. Evidently, he took exception to the private and insular nature of Redan Hills in favor of a far more egalitarian set-up.

Goodale will be returning to Scotland next month with his family to raise kids - and hopefully to organize a club based on his unique vision. Here is an edited version of his letter to the Times:

Dear Gib,
One of the finest and most fascinating things about golf is that golfing friends of similar experience can envision their "ideal" club almost 180 degrees apart! And yet, I'm very sure I would enjoy Redan Hills as much as you would enjoy the Old Links at Strathwhinn. So much for the pleasantries………….

Strathwhinn, being a links, has no "hills" to speak of, just an infinite series of randomly dispersed mounds and hollows. It does not have a "Redan" hole and anybody who even suggests that it ought to is immediately put on "double-secret" probation.

It is, of course in the Kingdom of Fife. As Hillaire Belloc once said about wine: "The first duty of a wine is to be red. The second is that it be a Burgundy."

On the same note, I say: The first duty of a golf course is to be a “links.” The second is that it be in Scotland.
In terms of the club, mine would have the following"characteristics:"

</button> Strathwhinn will be very much a public course. Various categories of "membership" are available (daily, weekly, fortnightly, seasonal, yearly, senior, junior, local, walk-ons, etc.) but all are subject to non-renewal at the end of any term. No other privileges for any class of member.

</button> All "members" will be subject to the sanction of "time out." Just as in kindergarten, this will be for misbehavior and entail a loss of all club privileges for a period of time.

</button> Strathwhinn will not employ a double-barrel named, anal retentive, retired British military officer to run the place. Some cheerful middle aged woman named Maggie will do just fine, assisted by a few lassies and laddies to help out during the busy months.

</button> We will have the same old pro year after year (he summers at my club and winters at Redan Hills), but he has no official duties except to occasionally sell sweaters, golf balls and faux club ties. He must have a questionable history, be a raconteur and not averse to a drammie or two.

</button> There will be assistant pro's, but rather than being well paid as at Redan Hills, they (or their sponsors, college, parents, etc.) will pay Strathwhinn for the privilege of a 2-year "residency." It will be one of the most sought-after posts for an ambitious young golf professional.

</button> The Greenkeeper will be highly competent, but not draw a lucrative salary. If he or she wishes to leave, the existence of Strathwhinn on the resume will guarantee a highly paid job at places like Redan Hills or Wentworth.

</button> He or she will have a large and cheerful staff, taken mostly from the local population. They will all be enthusiastic, with a thorough understanding of how to maintain a course with playability in mind.

</button> There will be a tennis club down the street and a local cricket club. A Strathwhinn "membership" will come with fishing privileges at a wee loch up in the hills.

</button> Unlike Redan Hills, there will be no "Dormy House" at the club. Players will be encouraged to frequent local establishments for accommodation, meals and non-golf oriented camaraderie.

</button> Much of this will be found at the club as well, of course. Strathwhinn will have a simple menu and legendary craic.

</button> We will not, however, have any wines priced at more that $10 retail. In fact, if a player wishes to drink any sort of wine in the clubhouse, it will be made difficult for him or her to find one of their liking.

</button> Beer and spirits will reign. The scotch of choice will be the "Strathwhinn Highland Malt" bottled for the club, and sold at a reasonable price.

</button> The course will have been a piece of scruffy land that the great-nephew of the owner claims used to be a golf course. It will be bought at an estate sale.

</button> The founders will hold a design competition which will consist of sending a disguised topographic map to every golf course architect we have ever heard of, asking them to send us back a routing.

</button> We will keep their ideas and tell all of them they lost the job. From their drawings, we will assemble a routing and hire the best unemployed golf hole shaper available to live in the village, hire and train some assistants and do his stuff.

</button> The designer of the course will always be listed as "The Singularity."

</button> I, Richard Goodale, will be in charge. There will be 20 or so founders who kick in a few grand, participate in the design of the course, and have playing privileges for the first year. After a while I might allow a "committee" of sorts, but they would have no power except that of possible persuasion.

</button> All holes will be subject to renovation, restoration, complete rebuilding, or even demolition. The course will be reversible and in common with St. Andrews, several tournaments will be played each year "back to front."

</button> All this is contingent upon me winning the lottery. Hope to see you soon in Scotland.

Cheers,
Rich Goodale


                

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: JMEvensky on May 03, 2014, 10:33:46 PM
I will gladly admit to access whoring-- I want privileges at each of your clubs. The newsletter alone would be worth the initiation fee.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 03, 2014, 10:43:41 PM
Redan Hills sounds wonderful, but I prefer Rich's Strathwhinn
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Michael Whitaker on May 04, 2014, 12:21:32 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm already a member of that club, the Dunes Club in New Buffalo, Michigan. Thank you, Mike Keiser.

I was going to say... I thought you were describing a real place! About as cool as it gets!!!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Bob_Huntley on May 04, 2014, 02:34:26 PM
Rihc,

You wrote:

"</button> There will be assistant pro's, but rather than being well paid as at Redan Hills, they (or their sponsors, college, parents, etc.) will pay Strathwhinn for the privilege of a 2-year "residency." It will be one of the most sought-after posts for an ambitious young golf professional.

</button> The Greenkeeper will be highly competent, but not draw a lucrative salary. If he or she wishes to leave, the existence of Strathwhinn on the resume will guarantee a highly paid job at places like Redan Hills or Wentworth.


Internships are coming under much attack in the USA and here you are advocating stiffing a young man or woman out of a few shillings.

I think John Major came up with the line about "The unacceptable face of capitalism".

I remain Sir,

Your Hon. servant.

Karl Marx

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Paul Gray on May 04, 2014, 05:10:33 PM
Two courses.

The first will have a par of 73 and stretch to 6,800 yards. I might put some other tees in further back, thus topping 7,000 yards, but only to allow me to then charge LESS to visitors wanting to play them, just to confuse the poor idiots that equate length with quality. The Pro Shop will have CCTV, just so as to capture their bemused expressions.

The other course will only stretch out to 6,000 odd yards but par will only be 68. The second course will widely be accepted as the better of the two. Again, the green fee will be accordingly more, much to the bemusement of the idiots.

One course will be pure links, the other, due to a very pleasant geological quirk, will be heathland. Between the two will be two excellent 9 hole, par 3 loops. TD can perhaps add a putting course.

Access to the main courses will be, as used to be the norm in Britain, limited to golfers with handicaps. The par 3 course will be open to all and sundry. Needless to say, no discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexually orientation etc. I'll consider excluding anyone I know to come from a discriminatory club, just to see how their libertarian ideals react. And as a final principle regarding access, juniors, subject to holding an adult handicap, are permitted to play in ALL club competitions. I had my time taking the candy when I was a kid and now it's their turn. If you didn't play golf as a kid, it's not their fault. Anyone moaning about them not paying as much, getting better too quickly or just generally growing up will be asked to consider who really needs to grow up.

The clubhouse will be a fine but understated building, converted from a big old farmhouse. I have no idea who thought it would be an idea to farm this land but then that's why we picked it up at a good price. The main restaurant will have a Michelin star but there will be a second menu of old favourites and three courses of whatever the chef finds to his or her fancy at market that morning.

No staff uniforms as such, just clean white shirts and black trousers/skirts in the restaurant and bar. And yes, in keeping with the lack of discrimination, men may wear skirts if they absolutely insist! Absolutely no logos. And on the subject of staff, free membership for all.

Dress code on and off the course should be, as a a minimum, proper golf attire. However, jackets and ties are not required.  

All are welcome to apply to join the Greens Committee, subject to receipt of their thesis on golf course architecture. If the usual sort of characters suddenly and mysteriously feel less inclined to put themselves forward for office, it'll be a committee of one. Well, two actually as our outstanding Green Keeper will be joining me. Occasional input will be sought from various archies, all of whom will be granted free membership for life.

Full seven day membership should cost no more than £1,500, with reductions for everyone under 40 and those over 70.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Carl Nichols on May 05, 2014, 01:49:47 PM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances

Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: George Pazin on May 05, 2014, 02:32:25 PM
Interesting to see who's still postin' after all these years...

My club already has a name; only one other person besides me knows it, but he's likely forgotten it. Check that, might be two, can't remember on one person. That's the only thing my club has right now. Well, that and the fact that the apparel guy is good to go.

Only three members: me, Mike Nuzzo and Don Mahaffey. They have the right to kick me out, should the need arise, but the vote has to be unanimous. Sorry to everyone else - almost all of you will have full guest privileges, but my inability to say no means I must really restrict voting membership. I failed my only other significant choices in life, so this time there will be no choices.

The notion of having my own club is what started my interest in architecture, some 15+ years ago. I was closer then than I am now...
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Kevin_Reilly on May 05, 2014, 03:08:27 PM

Quote
This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

I fit that profile to a tee!  The only time I'm able to play is at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays at a local course with some friends, while I play monthly fees somewhere else.  They need more people like me!

Funny to read this 12 years later...I only recently quit the club that I wrote about....my patronage of the club hadn't changed over that time period.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Terry Lavin on May 05, 2014, 03:21:41 PM

Quote
This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

I fit that profile to a tee!  The only time I'm able to play is at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays at a local course with some friends, while I play monthly fees somewhere else.  They need more people like me!

Funny to read this 12 years later...I only recently quit the club that I wrote about....my patronage of the club hadn't changed over that time period.

There's nothing wrong (and many things "right") about being a member of a club where a good chunk of your fellow members have memberships at other clubs.  That's one of the great things about Dunes Club.  I would venture that 80% of the members view it as their "second club", and many are members at two or more other clubs.  Rounds are obviously going to be lower as a result.  The downside is that it can be hard to "get a game" at places like this, so new members wind up always taking guests until they can find a regular game at the club.  Keiser's attitude at the Dunes is that he doesn't want to penalize a member who can't get a game, so he doesn't charge for the first three guests that one brings on any given day.  It's a great thing, because if you have your pals pay for their caddie, you're only paying for beverages and burgers, so it's a pretty easy decision to bring a lot of guests over the course of the summer.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on May 05, 2014, 06:36:21 PM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances

Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.

Carl,

If I have to explain it to you, it clearly indicates that you've graduated from MIT to full moron status.

Start with caddies rating members and two dings resulting in members being thrown out.

Go back and reread the posts and if you can't recognize the absurdity of the posts, well you may be on your way to becoming a grand exalted moron.

Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Greg Tallman on May 05, 2014, 07:04:12 PM
Must love the game FAR more than they love themselves (outwardly at least).

2 day interview

-18 at prospective member's current club
-Dinner & drinks at PM's current club or favorite local restaurant/hangout
-18 at Gringo Shores Club (designed by Jim Lipe, Kurt Bowman and yours truly)
-Lunch at GSC with a few club members (likely to include Ron Riemer, he'll  be around most of the time)
-Invitation is extended or not at some point during the next 30 days.

Clubhouse is a modest yet tech heavy glorified sports bar.

Chef name is Mariana, she says the word and you're out (careful now). WVU games take precedence... ALWAYS. Yes, even when we are 3-7 and Bama is playing Auburn.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Carl Nichols on May 07, 2014, 01:21:14 PM
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances

Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.

Carl,

If I have to explain it to you, it clearly indicates that you've graduated from MIT to full moron status.

Start with caddies rating members and two dings resulting in members being thrown out.

Go back and reread the posts and if you can't recognize the absurdity of the posts, well you may be on your way to becoming a grand exalted moron.


I'll agree there were a couple of bad ideas---out of 123 posts. 
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Tim Martin on May 07, 2014, 10:28:07 PM


(http://i58.tinypic.com/28rpegl.jpg)

The King and Kate get my first two slots.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 28, 2014, 09:50:48 AM
Jud,

At the risk of breaching the unwritten rule regarding invitations, please, please let me join your golf club.

And BCowan,

Welcome to a British golf club.

  Paul,

     thanks, I am lucky to play at a club that has emulated a British Golf Club model.  Seems to be working for we have a waiting listing and others aren't even close to full. 
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Greg Tallman on May 28, 2014, 12:48:19 PM
Nt
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Thomas Dai on May 28, 2014, 01:25:34 PM

My own club - who gets in?

Standards of behaviour and the strength of character of those in charge to enforce, yes, enforce, club rules and regulations have diminished within golf (and society).

So for me it's not not so much a question of who gets 'in' as who gets to stay 'in' and who gets thrown out!

atb
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 28, 2014, 04:33:04 PM

My own club - who gets in?

Standards of behaviour and the strength of character of those in charge to enforce, yes, enforce, club rules and regulations have diminished within golf (and society).

So for me it's not not so much a question of who gets 'in' as who gets to stay 'in' and who gets thrown out!

atb

Thomas,

    Very well said..
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on February 02, 2015, 05:07:47 PM
Gib,

   How is Redan Hills coming along?  Do you have a logo yet? 
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Mike Sweeney on May 02, 2017, 04:44:42 PM
Deserves a bump with the other thread by Peter going on.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: jeffwarne on May 02, 2017, 05:50:34 PM
Everybody.
Who STAYS in is the bigger question.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 02, 2017, 05:54:43 PM
Everybody.
Who STAYS in is the bigger question.

I'll appoint you commish.
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: jeffwarne on May 02, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
Everybody.
Who STAYS in is the bigger question.

I'll appoint you commish.


You're out (for making a suggestion)
but...being benevolent, I'll grant my first exception
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Pat Burke on May 02, 2017, 10:52:20 PM
Turn in your application.
warm up for 20 minutes
Walk 18 with me
finish in 3.5 or better.....passed step one
Divots a square or line in warm up....passed step two
Repair your divots properly...continue
Repaired your ball marks properly...continue
Enter bunker correctly, and rake properly...continue


As I continue to purposely mark my ball incorrectly, you ask me..."Hey Lexi, you going to at least TRY to mark your ball correctly?"


YOUR IN!!!
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: BCowan on May 02, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
Turn in your application.
warm up for 20 minutes
Walk 18 with me
finish in 3.5 or better.....passed step one
Divots a square or line in warm up....passed step two
Repair your divots properly...continue
Repaired your ball marks properly...continue
Enter bunker correctly, and rake properly...continue


As I continue to purposely mark my ball incorrectly, you ask me..."Hey Lexi, you going to at least TRY to mark your ball correctly?"


YOUR IN!!!


Post of
2017
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: jeffwarne on May 03, 2017, 07:35:11 AM
Turn in your application.
warm up for 20 minutes
Walk 18 with me
finish in 3.5 or better.....passed step one
Divots a square or line in warm up....passed step two
Repair your divots properly...continue
Repaired your ball marks properly...continue
Enter bunker correctly, and rake properly...continue


As I continue to purposely mark my ball incorrectly, you ask me..."Hey Lexi, you going to at least TRY to mark your ball correctly?"


YOUR IN!!!


Post of
2017


Well you guys evidently speak the same language ;)
Title: Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
Post by: Ira Fishman on May 03, 2017, 08:26:39 AM
Anybody who whines about not having all the fees posted online doesn't get in...

Anybody who inquires about our Golf Digest Ranking doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks where the bag boy is at the bag drop doesn't get in....

Anyone who insists on putting out after being given a putt in a match to see what their "real" medal score is doesn't get in...

Anyone who plays tees over 6500 yards and can't break 90 doesn't get in...

Anyone who sandbags doesn't get in...

Anyone who doesn't play ready golf doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't finish in at least 4 hours doesn't get in.

Anyone who doesn't let faster groups through doesn't get in...

Anyone who asks for a light beer doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of ice dancing, rhythm gymnastics or figure skating doesn't get in...

Anyone who wears more than 2 different logos doesn't get in...

Anyone who's a fan of Dancing with the Stars doesn't get in...

Anyone who's never heard of Charlie Parker, Samuel Beckett or the Velvet Underground doesn't get in...

Anyone who complains about the music, food or drink in the clubhouse doesn't get in...

Anyone who can't put their cell phone away for more than 15 minutes doesn't get in...

Anyone who treats anyone, including the staff, like second class citizens doesn't get in...

Anyone I don't like doesn't get in...


Anyone who reads putts using the 360 degree method does not get in...


Anyone who blames a lesson from the Assistant Pro for his poor play does not get in...


Anyone who cannot laugh at himself or at the state of his game does not get in...