Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jack Davis on November 25, 2008, 11:51:13 PM

Title: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Jack Davis on November 25, 2008, 11:51:13 PM
I had the opportunity to play Plainfield this past Monday during what I have said for five times now would be my last round of the year. The club has taken Gil Hanse's master plan to the next stage by restoring the remaining bunkers to their original shapes and proper locations. I brought my camera home from college just to take pictures of the course but of course left it at home. Alas... I'll go over a quick rundown of the changes since I played the course about a year and a half ago.

1. Every bunker is now deeper with higher lips and a few more trees down the left side have been removed.

5. First fairway bunker on the right is moved further from the tee and into the new landing area. Also, the rest of the fairway bunkers have been reshaped, moved closer to play and the lips are so high that only the tallest golfers will be able to see the greens from in them. Finally the set of bunkers just short of the green have been deepened and the lips raised as to really throw off the golfer's depth perception on his third shot.

6. All the bunkers surrounding this small green have been deepened and restored to the original Ross design. New lips hide a bit more of the green from the tee.

7. New bunkers just short of the fairway really make depth perception tricky on the tee shot. The bunkers left of the fairway have gone from some of the worst to some of the best with new shapes and grass faces coming all the way down to the sand. Dramatic change both visually and in terms of playability. Much more penal!

8. The fairway within 100 yards of the green is being shifted left up the hillside and away from the large tree that blocks your second shot. An additional bunker is being added short and left of the green where a few large trees used to be. The front right greenside trap is also being remodeled. These changes make the second shot on this par 5 more appealing for the long hitters but may leave a really difficult bunker shot for a third.

9. The cross bunker complex has undergone a massive change. They have been moved slightly closer to the tee taking driver out of the accomplished golfer's hands. Also, the new traps are VERY deep with huge grass faces coming down into the sand. I would say this is the best bunker complex on the front nine and makes the tee shot very intimidating.

10. Finally! The drainage pond on the inside of the dogleg is being removed and will most likely be replaced with a creek similar to that on 12.

12. Right greenside bunker is being deepened and restored.

14. Back tee on this daunting par 3 pushes the yardage to nearly 230 yards!

17. The slope short of the green has been shaved down and new bunkers have been shaped. Any ball that doesn't make it to this skyline green will either roll 50 yards down the hill or get caught in a new bunker.

With more changes to come and a few more bunkers to be restored Plainfield will be one of the finest Ross courses in the country. Kudos to the club for following Hanse's plan so well and continuing to invest serious funds into their beautiful course. I can't wait to see the course again!
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Tom Naccarato on November 26, 2008, 01:22:50 AM
Jack,
I'm convinced that Plainfield is one of the great courses in this country that flies way too far below the radar. It's outstanding. Simply outstanding. My favorite Ross.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Andrew Hastie on November 26, 2008, 04:54:29 AM
Here are the photos!
I played Plainfield about 2 months ago and enjoyed it immensely. Holes 13, 14 are a little out of character to the rest of the course.
The 18th also doesn't really fit in either.
But it's a absolute must play.

2nd Hole Par 4  432       from the fairway
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland149.jpg)

3rd Hole par 3  180 
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland151.jpg)

4th Hole  Par 4  355          Tee shot
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland153.jpg)

7th Hole Par 4  471          from the fairway
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland154.jpg)

looking back to the tee on 7.
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland156.jpg)

8th Hole Par 5  511   view from behind the green
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland157.jpg)

11th Hole Par 3   148
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland158.jpg)

9th Hole Par 4  368     Tee shot
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland160.jpg)

looking across to the 2nd green from 12
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland163.jpg)

12th Hole Par 5   588       from fairway
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland164.jpg)

looking back to 12th tee
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland165.jpg)

looking back up the 12th hole, 16th fairway on right
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland169.jpg)

17th Hole Par 4   427
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland170.jpg)
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Ward on November 26, 2008, 10:39:32 AM
Jack, Tom and Andrew:

I've said for many years that Plainfield is NJ's #2 layout and frankly I'm amazed that some see the two-course layout in Springfield as the better choice.

Not I.

One other thing -- the work by Hanse has now full captured the majesty of that glorious site. Kudos to his creative skills and to the membership for bringing to life such a classic course.

I think a good case can be made that Plainfield is easily among the metro NYC's area top 10 courses and can warrant consideration for a top five placement.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 26, 2008, 11:34:10 AM
Plainfield is a wonderful course, made even better by this recent ongoing work.

Thanks for updating us, Jack and Andrew! 
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Jack Davis on November 26, 2008, 11:38:28 AM
Andrew-

 Great pictures. The new bunker complex of 9 makes the ones in your photos seem easy. I really can't believe how large and deep they have made the cross bunkers. Also, its no secret that the tunnel holes of 13-15 aren't the most Ross holes on the course but two years go they built a large ridge into the fairway on 13 to help it fit in with the rest of the course. I would agree that the 13th green is the worst on the course. The par 3 14th has got to be one of the most challenging one shot holes around. Measuring 225 yards, approach shots into this green are extremely difficult. The small humps and bumps in this green remind me more of Somerset Hills than Plainfield. Finally 15 is a good short par 4 that could have been even better if the club acquired the land behind the 15th tee. 15 also has a very underrated green complex with a slippery slope to a chipping area right of the green.

Matt-

 I completely agree with you and I know the members of Plainfield do as well. Personally I have played Baltusrol as well and I feel Plainfield is much better. Not saying PCC is a Doak 10 but I really feel one MUST play every hole at Plainfield whereas they could skip a few at Balty and be ok.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on November 26, 2008, 12:33:10 PM
Can someone post a before picture of #11.
I don't remember what bunkering was there previously - and I thought it was a great little hole.
Thank you.

Gobble Gobble
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Carl Nichols on November 26, 2008, 01:33:56 PM
A good friend of mine was in the process of joining Plainfield but lost his job as a result of the economic downturn, and now isn't in a position to join.  Needless to say, he's very disappointed about not joining (though I think it's not the biggest issue on his mind).  He absolutely loves the place. 
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Cohn on November 26, 2008, 01:41:10 PM
Can someone label the hole numbers please?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Nicholas Coppolo on November 26, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
I had my best friend (a club pro in South Texas) up in May and we were fortunate to arrange play at 6 fantastic courses in 3 days.  We spent a day in Weschester, a day in the Hamptons and a day in Jersey.  Plainfield was the only course we played that is not a "household name". I'll let you assume the other courses we played, you'll probably be right.  Plainfield was the most interesting, varied, exciting and most fun golf course we played over those 3 days.  We played it on our first day and felt essentially let down by the more storied courses that followed.  That being said, we felt very thankful to be playing all those courses and they were all truly world-class, but Plainfield was very, very special in comparison to the others.

I did not love the bizarre and entirely out of place pond on 10.....I can't remember, is Hanse correcting this?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: PThomas on November 26, 2008, 04:18:53 PM
Plainfield is a wonderful course, made even better by this recent ongoing work.


my thoughts exactly!
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Ward on November 26, 2008, 05:12:22 PM
Like I said before -- do people who have played Plainfield feel it as the goods now to be rated among the top five courses in the metro NYC area?

That's a tall order given the overall competition.

Be curious to hear from those who have played a fair representation of the elite.

I personally see the course in the top 10 -- the top five is pushing it just a tad -- no disrespect to Plainfield but the competition is THAT good. Although I'd happy to make a case for it. ;D

Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Chris Cupit on November 26, 2008, 05:16:26 PM
Very cool look.  The pics #3 and #7 are terrific.  I know nothing about the course but the pics alone are terrific.  That green/bunker complex in pic #7 looks great and must be tougher than nails when the greens and approaches are firm and fast. 
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Sean_A on November 26, 2008, 05:32:53 PM
For those that have a set of pix I would very much like to see a photo tour of Plainfield.  Its one of those places that really only came under my radar since joining this site and all the tid bit pix I have seen are most impressive.  How bout it?

BTW The last time I pitched a bitch about wanting to see a photo tour we were treated with a wonderful tour of Lawsonia by Mr Moore - so the entire board should get behind me!

Ciao 
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Nicholas Coppolo on November 26, 2008, 07:19:46 PM
Like I said before -- do people who have played Plainfield feel it as the goods now to be rated among the top five courses in the metro NYC area?

That's a tall order given the overall competition.

Be curious to hear from those who have played a fair representation of the elite.

I personally see the course in the top 10 -- the top five is pushing it just a tad -- no disrespect to Plainfield but the competition is THAT good. Although I'd happy to make a case for it. ;D

Based on your famous post "Metro Area top 50":
If you only include Wchester/Nassau/and Northern Jersey....I think there's a real case for top 5, but I haven't played WF East, and while I appreciate Bayonne I just have a hard time appreciating manufactured landscapes (my own issue, don't kill me) so it doesn't figure in for me.

If you include Suffolk, I think Plainfield is still top 10, but there are 3 exceptional courses in the Hamptons that may keep it out of the top 5.  (I have not played Maidstone)
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Ash Towe on November 26, 2008, 08:14:48 PM
I will support Sean for a photo tour.  I had the pleasure of playing Plainfield a couple of years ago and thought it was great.  It is one of those courses that I could play every weekend.
I am also very grateful to the person who arranged a great golfing experience for me.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on November 26, 2008, 08:27:26 PM
Andrew Hastie,

I often hear people being critical of holes 13, 14 and 15, claiming that they're not like the rest of the golf course.

There's a reason for that.
The topography on holes 13, 14 and 15 is vastly different from the rest of the course.

If someone hadn't told you, or others, that those holes were added afterward, I doubt you'd notice a difference.

It's interesting that noone complains that # 12 isn't an original hole and that the original hole/s should be restored.

Matt Ward,

I agree with you.
Plainfield is a wonderful golf course.
What makes it all the better is a membership that's a "golfing" membership that takes great pride in their gem of a golf course, and conditions it to match.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Paul_Turner on November 26, 2008, 08:42:15 PM
Loads of tree clearing since I last played there, bunkering redo looks great too.

But the fairway and rough cuts look almost as crap as Merion's; why aren't the fairway bunkers in the fairway?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Tom Naccarato on November 26, 2008, 08:45:38 PM
Patrick, I echo your sentiments. Plainfield is a great membership that seem to get it.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Ward on November 27, 2008, 12:06:33 AM
Nicholas:

No doubt the nature of a Bayonne and Plainfield are two entirely unique styles of golf design. I believe in a bit of elasticity in regards to having vastly different courses only adds to the depth of first rate courses in the metro NYC area.

I understand the comments of the naysayers on Bayonne but keep in mind all the fanfare that a place like Shadow Creek gets and I see the Jersey equivalent of that to be far better.

In regards to a top five (5) placement in the metro area -- that would be a tough fit for Plainfield because it would be taking head on a number of absolute gems with the likes of Shinnecock, NGLA, WF/W, Sebonack and Fisher's Island -- there's a possibility for Plainfield inclusions but just to be mentioned in the same breath with these home run courses speaks very highly of the only Jersey course that could make a solid case for a top ten position.

The real issue for Plainfield is the lack of attention it often gets. No doubt those "in the know" do know what it offers -- but if you ask many people outside a 75-mile radius of the club if they know of the course you'll likely get many people simply scratching their head and saying -- what's the name of that course again ?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Andrew Hastie on November 27, 2008, 05:06:57 AM
Matt,

The holes are now all labeled. Please excuse me for not doing it in the first place.

By the way the club has a website:
http://www.plainfieldcc.com/club/scripts/public/public.asp?GRP=7&NS=PUBLIC


I also found a photo before the trees were removed on the 2nd.
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/02Hole_opt.jpg)

And after. What a difference.
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/andrewhastie/LongIsland149.jpg)


Patrick,
Whether you would know or not that 13,14,15 are new holes, I'll never know, because I knew before I played.
However after playing the very nice 3rd hole, 14 feels like a bit too much water on the par 3s.
It doesn't seem right.

By the way does anybody know if the pond on 3 is original or was it also a creek.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Norbert P on November 27, 2008, 12:50:51 PM
    Hail Caesar !!!  Veni vidi vici !


   Go Hypercycloids !!!

"Steel lightens your work, brightens your leisure and widens your world." USX slogan.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: James Bennett on November 27, 2008, 05:04:36 PM
The layout of Plainfield before the changes is attached.  It implies that the lake on #3 has always been there.

#12 is a wonderful hole as a par 5.  The main difference to me of #13 and #14 versus other holes was the relative flatness of land there compared to the rest of the course.  You can't have everything.

Pleased to hear that the lake on #10 is gone/going.  Are there any plans for improvements to #18?  That seemed to be the 'least best' hole to me from my one play.

James B

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/plainfield/OriginalMap.jpg)
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Ward on November 27, 2008, 06:15:19 PM
James:

Plenty of people mention the closing hole at Plainfield and some have opined that's weak. I would just offer this ...

Getting into solid position off the tee is not an automatic play -- most will club down but a few will try to air driver over the corner of the dog-leg although the gain from doing so is so-so at best.

The approach is central to one's success because of a spine that runs the length of the green -- a quick three-jack is very easy to do.

As far as any changes -- you can't lengthen the hole and the turning point in the fairway limits much improvement from that dimension.

The 18th at Plainfield isn't a great hole -- but it has just enough bite to keep players honest. Keep in mind, it would not surprise me to see the club play the nines in reverse order, as they did w the '87 Women's Open so that the 9th brings the players immediately in front of the clubhouse.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on November 27, 2008, 11:20:06 PM
Matt Ward,

I think those who cite less than extremely challenging/difficult 18th holes as weak have capitulated to the medal play mentality.

The great, great majority of golf at local clubs is conducted at match play.

In a good percentage of the matches, the 18th hole is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 28, 2008, 12:08:25 AM
James Bennett,

You rock.

Awesome map!   What year is that from?

Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: James Bennett on November 28, 2008, 01:44:03 AM
Mike Cirba

I don't know what year the map was from.  I presume it is from the time period when Plainfield was first built by Ross.  The maps hang in the clubhouse foyer.


Matt Ward and Patrick Mucci

Every course has a 'least best' hole.  IMO, that is #18.  Others might suggest #13 or #14 but I wouldn't.  Given the improvements that Gil Hanse has been able to achieve, it is reasonable to expect that there may be some changes proposed to 18.  It is a difficult piece of land, and it will always be a shorter par 4.  But as I haven't seen Gil's Master Plan, I don't know if anything is proposed for #18 or not.

By the way, what do you think Plainfield's least best hole is?

James B

ps  Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends, including those 'big guys' who just look-in these days and haven't posted for some time.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: ed_getka on November 30, 2008, 11:10:22 AM
Thanks for the update and pix. Plainfield is one of my favorite courses to recommend to anyone traveling to the metro area that wants to see a fantastic example of Ross. It is one of only two private courses that I have been to that I would consider joining for a place for my family to play golf (if I had the means that is).
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on November 30, 2008, 11:36:53 AM
James Bennett,

It's more than just a "difficult piece of land".

There's the element of unchangeable confinement.
You have a public road bordering the area from the tee to the DZ.
You have OB, including structures, long of the DZ.

The hole is squeezed between these boundaries.

The only available land is beyond the green, and, into the practice area.

It's not an easy hole by any definition.

The problem as I see it is the awkwardness of the tee shot.

It seems and feels contrived.

In light of increased distance, I'd look at a topo and see if I couldn't replace the left side trees with severe bunkering and place the green 30 to 40 to 50 yards back of it's current location, making it a less severe dogleg where risk/reward off the tee have a better look and feel.

My "Google Earth" is not operating currently, so I can't reference the features and the spacial relationships, but, straightening out the dogleg and moving the green back seems to be the most viable alternative ..... space permitting.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike McGuire on November 30, 2008, 05:41:43 PM
I was looking at the routing plan posted by [edit: James Bennett  not Mike Cirba.] The bunkering looks quite different than what was built recently.

Is this more a renovation than a restoration?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: James Bennett on November 30, 2008, 06:18:00 PM
Patrick

I agree with your last post - the 18th is  a difficult piece of land.  I only saw it briefly, and I was mentally tired having enjoyed what was such an exhilarating delight that day.  So, my memory may be lacking.

The characteristics that I was disappointed in, that seemed to be 'un-Plainfield' to me, were the pond on the corner, the heavy trees on the inside of the dogleg and the severity of the dogleg.  I suspect a 'better' hole will be a shorter hole than the current one.

You mention the tight land issues and the road.  Well, isn't #17 an absolute peach given those issues.

I am interested to hear whether there are any plans to 'restore' #18.  It might be that  pond removal and tree thinning will improve the hole.  However, I am glad that wiser minds than mine are doing it.

Here is an old Google overhead, where the 18th can be seen.

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/plainfield/googlemap.jpg)

James B (occasionally mistaken for Mike Cirba)
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on November 30, 2008, 06:43:49 PM
James Bennett,

Thanks for the aerial.

I don't think the pond is a substantive factor in the play of the hole.

As you can see from the aerial, there's plenty of room behind the green.

Straightening the hole and placing the green further back might be a viable alternative.

The dogleg on # 17 isn't as severe.
However, I objected to the narrowness of a blind, doglegged fairway.
Whomever narrowed the fairway in the DZ erred.
With proper width restored, # 17 is a terrific hole.
In its narrowed state its excessively penal.
 
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike McGuire on November 30, 2008, 07:02:47 PM

Apologies to James Bennett who posted the early routing map. I edited my post.

My question remains - Is this a restoration or a renovation?
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Ed Oden on November 30, 2008, 10:07:27 PM
Plainfield is one of my favorite places.  If it is possible for a top 100 course to be significantly underrated, then PCC fits the bill.  Interesting, fun, varied and challenging.  Great bunkering and an even better set of greens.  What's not to love?  I look forward to each return visit because the restoration efforts just seem to get better and better.  As for #18, while I agree the tee shot is awkward, finding the fairway leaves one of the best approaches on the course to a devilish green.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/eko_gfl/Plainfield18-A.jpg)

Comparisons to Baltusrol are no contest.  Plainfield is superior to both courses by a wide margin in my eyes. 

Ed
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike McGuire on November 30, 2008, 10:19:31 PM
Plainfield is one of my favorite places.  If it is possible for a top 100 course to be significantly underrated, then PCC fits the bill.  Interesting, fun, varied and challenging.  Great bunkering and an even better set of greens.  What's not to love?  I look forward to each return visit because the restoration efforts just seem to get better and better.  As for #18, while I agree the tee shot is awkward, finding the fairway leaves one of the best approaches on the course to a devilish green.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/eko_gfl/Plainfield18-A.jpg)

Comparisons to Baltusrol are no contest.  Plainfield is superior to both courses by a wide margin in my eyes. 

Ed


#18 from the original routing - looks a bit different.

(http://idisk.mac.com/mcguiremike1/Public/Pictures/Skitch/Plainfield_Restoration_Update-20081130-211436.jpg)
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Matt_Ward on November 30, 2008, 10:51:49 PM
Gents:

For those who have rightly talked about the greatness of Plainfield -- I would dare say there is a trio of other NJ courses that get little attention and each has made significant efforts to bolster what was present originally.

I'd highly recommend visits to any of the following three ...

Essex County CC / West Orange -- great update fr Hanse & Bahto
Forsgate CC (Banks Course) / Monroe Twsp. -- hats off to RDM Management and Stephen Kay for their efforts there
Montclair GC (#2 & #4 Nines) / West Orange -- could be the most demanding under 6,600 yards / par-70 course in NJ.
Title: Re: Plainfield Restoration Update
Post by: Mike McGuire on December 01, 2008, 08:21:14 AM

Looks like the present 12th plays to the original 13 green. Must be new holes in the right half of this picture.


(http://img.skitch.com/20081201-8shfs55xbyime7us5m641cfumg.preview.jpg) (http://skitch.com/macadoo1/7fus/live-search-maps)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/macadoo1/7fus/live-search-maps) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)