Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: John Nixon on February 08, 2008, 09:48:12 AM
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According to this report:
http://www.golfweek.com/story/chambersbay_news_020808
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Great to see them going to a new course. This is a stupid question since the course has had so much buzz here, but isn't this a Rees Jones who is also the Open doctor, so this shouldn't come as a great surprise?
Maybe the USGA should give Jordan Wall a exemption into the field to provide some local content.
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Nice scoop, Brad. How about that? I realize that some here were speculating that it could happen...
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Is it April fools day already? :o
Apparently not...
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/277941.html
Congrats to the city of Tacoma, maybe this will help get you over that inferiority complex.
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I thought Chambers Bay was built by Bobby, the other Jones brother.
Ken
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KBanks,
It is a Bobby Jr. course..
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Design is by Robert Trent Jones Jr., Bruce Charlton and Jay Blasi, not Rees Jones. When it opened, we had Chambers Bay as the focal point of a Golfweek story on municipal golf going upscale.
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Is it April fools day already? :o
Apparently not...
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/277941.html
Congrats to the city of Tacoma, maybe this will help get you over that inferiority complex.
Nope, and Brad didn't mention Erin Hills....
Media Contact: Craig Smith (csmith@usga.org)
Web address: www.usga.org
USGA phone: (908) 234-2300
USGA AWARDS 2015 U.S. OPEN, 2010 U.S. AMATEUR TO CHAMBERS BAY IN WASHINGTON STATE AND 2011 U.S. AMATEUR TO ERIN HILLS GOLF COURSE IN WISCONSIN
Far Hills, N.J. Feb. 8 - The United States Golf Association has announced that it has awarded the 2015 U.S. Open Championship to Chambers Bay, the spectacular municipal links course located on the scenic lower Puget Sound in University Place, Wash.
The USGA also announced that Chambers Bay, designed by Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Bruce Charleton, will play host to the U.S. Amateur Championship in 2010.
Chambers Bay will be the third municipal course to play host to the U.S. Open, following Bethpage Black in New York (2002, 2009) and Torrey Pines in California later this year. Chambers Bay will be the first golf course in the Pacific Northwest to hold the U.S. Open.
"We are excited to take the U.S. Open Championship and the U.S. Amateur to such an awesome site,” said Jim Hyler, chairman of the USGA Championship Committee. “This is the first time the U.S. Open has been to Washington and we are confident that the golf course will provide a challenging test for the best players in the world, as well as a great spectator experience for those who attend the event and watch it online and on television.
“The local leadership provided by Pierce County has been superb and we look forward to partnering with them and the great sports fans in Washington to host a truly unique Open Championship. And, the U.S. Amateur will give us great insight into the golf course architecture and championship setup. For the first time, the National Open will be played on fine fescue grasses, including the putting greens,” continued Hyler.
Chambers Bay, opened in June 2007, is the centerpiece of a 930-acre park purchased by Pierce County, Wash., in 1992 that today features scenic trails and coastline vistas where a sand and gravel quarry once stood.
“Our hard work has paid off as we have done everything possible to attract the attention of a prestigious championship,” said Pierce County Executive John Ladenburg. “Even so, we never dreamed we’d be chosen by the USGA to host both the U.S. Amateur and U.S. Open championships. Especially not so close to the opening of the course. It is a true honor.”
“Chambers Bay golf course is a jewel for the entire state of Washington and the Pacific Northwest,” said Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire. “The U.S. Open and U.S. Amateur Championships will be a wonderful opportunity to showcase the natural beauty of our state and share it with golf enthusiasts from around the globe. I applaud County Executive John Ladenburg for his hard work on delivering the championship events to Pierce County.”
The USGA also announced that Erin Hills Golf Course in Wisconsin will play host to the 2011 U.S. Amateur. Erin Hills is located in Hartford, Wis., about 30 minutes northwest of Milwaukee, and is also home to the U.S. Women’s Amateur Public Links Championship in 2008 – a USGA championship awarded to Erin Hills before the golf course had opened in 2006.
Erin Hills is a links-style championship course designed by Mike Hurdzan and Dana Fry of Hurdzan-Fry Architects, and Ron Whitten, Architecture Editor of Golf Digest magazine. Golf Magazine named Erin Hills its Best New Golf Course in January 2007.
“Erin Hills is a wonderfully unique golf course that really takes a minimalist approach to the golf course design and architecture,” Hyler said. “The course is cleverly routed on a great piece of golf landscape. The venue will be a terrific test for the competitors in the U.S. Amateur.”
“On behalf of the entire state of Wisconsin, we look forward to the incredible opportunity to host the 2011 U.S. Amateur at Erin Hills Golf Course,” said Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle. “As a public course open to all, Erin Hills fulfills the USGA promise and is a world-class facility that showcases Wisconsin’s future as a premier golf destination.”
“Everyone associated with the journey of Erin Hills is pleased and we look forward to the unique opportunity to host the 2011 U.S. Amateur,” said Bob Lang, owner of Erin Hills.
The awarding of championships to Chambers Bay and Erin Hills was approved by the USGA Executive Committee at its Annual Meeting in Houston. The formal approval of all three championships is pending contractual agreement.
The USGA is the national governing body of golf in this country and Mexico, a combined territory that includes more than half the world’s golfers and golf courses.
The USGA also writes the Rules of Golf, conducts equipment testing, provides expert course maintenance consultations, funds research for better turf and a better environment, maintains a Handicap System and administers an ongoing "For the Good of the Game" grants program, which has allocated more than $58 million over 11 years to programs that seek to grow the game. For more information about the USGA, visit www.usga.org.
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Great to see them going to a new course. This is a stupid question since the course has had so much buzz here, but isn't this a Rees Jones who is also the Open doctor, so this shouldn't come as a great surprise?
Maybe the USGA should give Jordan Wall a exemption into the field to provide some local content.
I've never been able to keep up with the Jones.
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It will be interesting to see how well they can maintain those fescue playing surfaces. After 7 years of play, they may have significant poa annua infestation on the greens, maybe 5-20%.
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Very interesting...I've been contemplating making the trip up from Houston to check it out...this makes the decision easy.
How do you think this announcement will affect the rate structure going forward?
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So, the 2010 U.S. Amateur to CB and then 2015 U.S. Open.
does 2011 U.S. Amateur to EH mean 2016 U.S. Open?
2014 is still open, I'm guessing #2 gets it. Or maybe Shinny.
At any rate, CB is a fine choice. Great course. Can the gallery go anywhere on #10? Atop the dunes?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Chambers%20Bay/cb015.jpg)
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I guess the gallery will have to go single file along the tops of the dunes on #12, too:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Chambers%20Bay/cb019.jpg)
Also, #8 has a steep falloff on the right, so the gallery will have to mountain goat it along the hill on the left:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Chambers%20Bay/cb009.jpg)
Get yer hiking boots out!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Chambers%20Bay/cb010.jpg)
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Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but this is pretty shocking news to me. Awarrding a US Open to a course open less than is year is pretty radical.
Jason
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Certain spectator vantage points at Chambers Bay will be like sitting in the overhang at old Tiger Stadium -- you won't be able to see the rightfielder.
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Certain spectator vantage points at Chambers Bay will be like sitting in the overhang at old Tiger Stadium -- you won't be able to see the rightfielder.
What is the over/under on rolled/twisted/broken ankles?
Would it be greater or lower then when the PGA visited Whistling Straits?
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Should Mr. Hyler's minimalist comment be given a free pass?
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Does Chambers Bay have wide fairways? Will the USGA keep them that way?
In general, how will the USGA set up the course for the Open?
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With permission, I am going to pick on Kyle's comments about getting to CB now.
Along with his previous desire to visit CB, he makes it a priority now that the USGA has made this announcement. Any denying the marketing power of hosting an event of this stature? Can you imagine how many golfers in the Pac NW are going the same route as Kyle? And couple that with Jason's observation of granting an Open to a course not even played for a full season and you start to know how the golf industry works.
$$$$$$$$$$
I too will be eager to watch the fans find their way around.
Thanks, Kyle, for graciously allowing me....
Joe
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Jim,
With a few exceptions (Scott's photographs) Chambers is extremely wide and generous off the tee. I cannot fathom the USGA keeping the width.
I think the course is worthy of the tournament but absent a stiff breeze I could see a lot of birdies.
Mike
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Should Mr. Hyler's minimalist comment be given a free pass?
Yes, because he was referring to Erin Hills, which I heard had had very little earth moved.
What's going on, big fella? May flowers are on theri way!
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I am in SHOCK!!!
I figured CB would have to host a US Amateur (or ANY USGA event) before they would be seriously considered.
I am so excited I can hardly breathe. I can't wait for the tickets to go on SALE!!!
Wow... it is about time the place with the best summer weather in the country got to host the US Open.
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I will say that the wall of sand that lines the course on the east side can probably easily hold 25,000+ spectators. I can certainly envision installing bleachers on that side to hold all the crowd.
From that vantage point, you will be able to view the entire course. Should be great for event watching.
I also suspect they will have special Sounder trains to shuttle people in from Seattle.
I think the logistics will be very favorable for hosting the US Open
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Richard,
Too bad summer doesn't start until after July 4th there and then it may only last 2 months. It is beautiful while it lasts though. :)
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During the Walker Cup there was large number of people on slopes of simaler steepness but if was to get wet they would provide a serious concern for officials.
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I am in SHOCK!!!
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Wow... it is about time the place with the best summer weather in the country got to host the US Open.
Richard,
You got that right!
Kalen, I don't care if you lived in Eastern Washington and California. The best, most consistent, US Open weather would be west of the Cascade Mts.
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With permission, I am going to pick on Kyle's comments about getting to CB now.
Along with his previous desire to visit CB, he makes it a priority now that the USGA has made this announcement. Any denying the marketing power of hosting an event of this stature? Can you imagine how many golfers in the Pac NW are going the same route as Kyle? And couple that with Jason's observation of granting an Open to a course not even played for a full season and you start to know how the golf industry works.
$$$$$$$$$$
As opposed to all those other industries that AREN'T about money.
Still, I get your point. But one of the realities of the US Open being played on public-access courses is that people get the experience of playing on the same venues as their heroes, attempting the same shots as they saw during the big tourney. Is this somehow wrong? Part of the joy of playing St. Andrews is thinking of all those players who have tread the same ground. Is this an enthusiasm that I should somehow mute within myself?
Or am I misinterpreting your comments?
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Should arrange another GCA outing at Chambers Bay this year to accomodate all the renewed interest? :)
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Kirk,
I think you get my gist OK. And yes, everyone needs and desires money. The part that bothers me is the pre-hype that actually seems to work so well in golf. CB and Erin Hills both presented themselves as something worthy of the highest level of competition before the first round was played. I don't understand that. I guess, ideally, I would favor a track record that proves itself on the local level before it jumps so high on the national level.
It really doesn't matter one way or the other to me, I just don't comprehend how all this works.
Joe
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This seems to me to be potentially steps along the road to development of a sort of rota of TPC-type USGA tournament courses, including possibly Chambers Bay, Erin Hills, Bethpage (and Torrey maybe). It could be a very good thing if it significantly lowers the pressure to modify some of our most beloved classic era courses in preparation for hosting these tournaments (if they change 11 holes at Erin Hills, who cares?).
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Gee, imagine my surprise when I got back in town and saw a thread that was positive about the USGA. As I live and breathe!
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Garland,
If you think an average of 2 inches of rain per month and 59 degrees is ideal US Open weather, then I can't help you. I do think the course works anyways being sand-based and will be fast and firm, but I'm not buying for 1 second its "optimal" conditions.
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The average high for middle of June is 72 to 74 degrees. And most of the rain in June is in the beginning of the month (left over from the winter/spring rains).
Late June is almost ideal weather for golf, not too hot, no humidity, and plenty of sun.
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Richard,
I'd like to see your source. I have attach the link to mine. And they are playing in Tacoma, not Seattle. Sometimes microclimates can be vastly different when you are outside a major metropolitan area. This is from Ft. Lewis, only a few miles away from Chambers Bay.
http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1102+7279303G1
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Joe, understood, and thanks.
I guess the message is that the USGA is serious about holding this event at public-access courses. Or is there another agenda that is too subtle for my blunt-instrument brain? What I'd love is the double-whammy combination of playing the US Open at some of our most fabled venues without having to compromise the architecture of those venues. If that can't be done, then Jeff Goldman is right as......rain.
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Richard,
I'd like to see your source. I have attach the link to mine. And they are playing in Tacoma, not Seattle. Sometimes microclimates can be vastly different when you are outside a major metropolitan area. This is from Ft. Lewis, only a few miles away from Chambers Bay.
http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1102+7279303G1
I believe you and Richard are talking about two different things. He's referring to average maximum temps for June, and it appears that the chart on worldclimate.com is an average of the 24-hour temps.
They don't list average maximums for Fort Lewis, but here's they are for McChord AFB
http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1200+0051676G2
As you can see, June is ~70*.
Ken
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Kalen,
The average temperature you're looking at accounts for all time points in the day, including chillier morning temps. From weather.com, it says that Tacoma averages 1.58" of rain in June.
While I like warmer temperatures, at least they won't have to worry about extreme heat possible in places such as Pinehurst or Tulsa, OK (and has also happened in Pittsburgh, the DC suburbs, Springfield, NJ, etc.).
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Richard,
I'd like to see your source. I have attach the link to mine. And they are playing in Tacoma, not Seattle. Sometimes microclimates can be vastly different when you are outside a major metropolitan area. This is from Ft. Lewis, only a few miles away from Chambers Bay.
http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1102+7279303G1
I believe you and Richard are talking about two different things. He's referring to average maximum temps for June, and it appears that the chart on worldclimate.com is an average of the 24-hour temps.
They don't list average maximums for Fort Lewis, but here's they are for McChord AFB
http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1200+0051676G2
As you can see, June is ~70*.
Ken
Kmourn,
Understood those are the average "max" temps, but the US Open is played over a roughly 12 hour time slot. I think a 24 hr average temp is more accurate than a max temp that is only reached for what 1 hour of the day?
And come on, even the average high in june was still under 70 for that area. 69.3. :D :P
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This seems to me to be potentially steps along the road to development of a sort of rota of TPC-type USGA tournament courses, including possibly Chambers Bay, Erin Hills, Bethpage (and Torrey maybe). It could be a very good thing if it significantly lowers the pressure to modify some of our most beloved classic era courses in preparation for hosting these tournaments (if they change 11 holes at Erin Hills, who cares?).
How dare you refer to Chambers Bay as a "TPC-type" course! >:(
;)
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Nothing against Chambers Bay in particular, but I think it's a bad thing -- only because it will make everybody developing a new public course drool unrealistically about hosting a U.S. Open themselves.
We don't need architects to create more potential U.S. Open venues. We need the USGA to do something about preserving the ones we've got.
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Kalen,
The average temperature you're looking at accounts for all time points in the day, including chillier morning temps. From weather.com, it says that Tacoma averages 1.58" of rain in June.
While I like warmer temperatures, at least they won't have to worry about extreme heat possible in places such as Pinehurst or Tulsa, OK (and has also happened in Pittsburgh, the DC suburbs, Springfield, NJ, etc.).
Scott,
What do you think the temp will likely be closer to when that first group goes off at 7 AM? 59 degrees or 69?
And remember the early morning hours just before dawn are generally the coldest.
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Kalen,
If you haven't lived there in June, then you are unqualified to comment!
Pat Mucci
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Kalen,
If you haven't lived there in June, then you are unqualified to comment!
Pat Mucci
Lol...good one Garland.
I should have known that thermometers in the Pacific Northwest always read 10-15 degrees lower than what it actually is. ;) ;D
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Kalen,
I bet the Tour pros will LOVE the (cooler) weather. Having to wear long pants, the June temps there are great for that. Sweater vest that can come off once it warms up, but never too hot. Pebble Beach has similar weather in June for the U.S. Open.
Ask them if they liked Tulsa last August.
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Hey Garland,
I wasn't talking about the quality of the course, just the idea that there could be "tournament" courses groomed for holding these events. On a related front, the USGA might be in very good shape on this issue anyways, with Mike Davis as tourney director. Hard to find more "classic" greens than at Oakmont, and I don't think we heard a peep about flattening any.
Jeff
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Scott,
No doubt they will prefer it over the hotter venues. I was just going after those Seattle/Portland guys who think June is ideal in that part of the country. ;) ;D
Temps in the 60s, very likely to be overcast with off an on rain....I'm not seeing it.
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USGA AWARDS 2015 U.S. OPEN, 2010 U.S. AMATEUR TO CHAMBERS BAY IN WASHINGTON STATE
I'm very interested in the 2010 Amateur selection, in just 2 years. It will be a good practice run for the US Open. I realize they'll be set up differently, but there are so many factors to consider beyond how the golf course plays.
I can't wait to hear and see a rumbling freight train blow its horn in Sergio's backswing on the 16th tee.
Tom makes an interesting point about setting a precedent.
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Geez, you guys are going back and forth on weather 8 years from now! Didn't you hear about global climate change coming? ;) ::) ;D
Nothing against Chambers Bay in particular, but I think it's a bad thing -- only because it will make everybody developing a new public course drool unrealistically about hosting a U.S. Open themselves.
We don't need architects to create more potential U.S. Open venues. We need the USGA to do something about preserving the ones we've got.
I could agree if the statement by TomD were surely the way archies will direct their design goals. But, I really don't think that GCA is going to be oriented towards every muni or public venue course shooting for a US Open. Muni's in general can't afford it and CB is an abberation, I believe, in terms of how much the muni was able to project for a high end budget.
Maybe developers like Kohler and Kaiser and the like might still think in terms of their next dream course hosting the big one. But, they better be pretty young if they want to see it in their life times. And, even they might consider the cost of acquiring a property in an urban area where such could be hosted, let alone the design/construction cost. These guys do still not desire to go broke, don't they? In a way, Kohler is lucky he has lived long enough to see WS host some big ones.
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Is there often/usually lots of wind there that time of year? What are the greens like, and what might they stimp at? If the pro's in 2015 hit the ball about the same distance as now, is CB long enough, or will they have to add new tees? (And if they do need new tees, whatever the reason, is there space for them?)
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I am happy for the people of Tacoma. Right now the infrastructure is inadequate for any major event. They will need to build a better clubhouse with locker room facilities. Traffic is going to be tough, but that seems to be a problem. Who gets dibs on the wharf?
Update: I went to the Portland Golf Show today and Jay Blasi was manning the Chamber Bay booth. Smile as wide as a coathanger. They already have an RFP out for the clubhouse.
I can't speak about Tacoma weather, but having lived in Portland Oregon for 60 years, we have a saying that summer doesn't start until after Rose Festival, which is early June. It's not the date that is important, just the event. Many June days have a marine cloud layer which burns off around noon. I'm guessing maybe a 20% chance of .25 inches at our premier auto event (Champ Cars) in mid-late June.
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Jim,
CB is 7585 yards from the tips, and it won't be hot & humid (ball goes further).
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Who gets dibs on the wharf?
I don't know what "dibs" are, but if they are what I think they are, I once got "dibs" on the 6th green at Grand Island......it was at night, and I'm sure anyone getting dibs on the wharf will do it under the cover of darkness as well.....
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Weather wise...my experience has been everything begins to dry out around mid June to the 3rd week of June.....and temps should be sweet!
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First of all, it's going to be interesting to see how far back they play Erin Hills. Fully stretched it's well over 8000 yards.
Secondly, it will be interesting to see what the other stroke play course for that particular Amateur will be. Milwaukee CC would be a great choice but I'm not sure if they'd be willing to do two championships (they have the Mid Am this year I think) in that close of proximity.
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What will the second courses be for the U.S. Amateurs?
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Here is the Wharf..
On a side sure looks like they were lots of trees or shrubs there before. Are we sure this is a minimalist course? ;) ;D
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The second course for the US Amateur will probably be the Home Course, but they didn't have a clubhouse when I played there last year.
http://www.thehomecourse.com/layout9.asp?id=542&page=27921
Joe H- Dibs is first pick :D
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What will the second courses be for the U.S. Amateurs?
For CB, it could be the newly opened nearby Home Course, which tips out at 7437 yards and a 76.5 CR.
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Here is the Wharf..
On a side sure looks like they were lots of trees or shrubs there before. Are we sure this is a minimalist course? ;) ;D
As for minimalist, no one has ever made that claim about Chambers Bay. It is a mine reclamation.
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I like the idea of taking the US Open to different regions and if it takes new course construction to do that, OK. Do the changes needed to host the US Open make courses better? Hopefully the USGA is paying attention to more than yardage and accommodation of TV & galleries.
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Here is the Wharf..
On a side sure looks like they were lots of trees or shrubs there before. Are we sure this is a minimalist course? ;) ;D
As for minimalist, no one has ever made that claim about Chambers Bay. It is a mine reclamation.
Garland, next time I will put 6 smiley faces on there just for you... ;D ;D ;D
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The 18th Hole at Chambers Bay last May on GCA Day.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/Slag_Bandoon/18thCBayGCA.jpg)
Gosh that is chartreusey. I don't think I did any real mods on the photo beyond darkening it a little bit.
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Joe,
Are you sure Kyle wasn't trying to play his way into the '15 event?
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Here are the June daily averages for Tacoma.
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/USWA0441?climoMonth=6
I think it is silly to look at Mean Temps for suitability. Sure, it may be bit chilly in the early morning, but by 9AM it will be in the mid 60's and by the afternoon, it will be in low to mid 70's. Perfect temperature for golf and golf spectators.
While I cannot guarantee that there won't be rain, but usually most of that rain comes in early June and not later June.
If it is overcast and windy, I personally think that would be an ideal weather condition for a major championship.
Certainly better than 100+ degree temperatures we've had at other sites.
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BTW, this has to be a devastating news for Pumpkin Ridge...
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BTW, this has to be a devastating news for Pumpkin Ridge...
Not really.
Pumpkin Ridge was built before the Strata, and ProV1. They already realize they are obsolete courses in this respect.
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Hey Garland,
I wasn't talking about the quality of the course, just the idea that there could be "tournament" courses groomed for holding these events. On a related front, the USGA might be in very good shape on this issue anyways, with Mike Davis as tourney director. Hard to find more "classic" greens than at Oakmont, and I don't think we heard a peep about flattening any.
Jeff
Thanks for the clarification Jeff.
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Well, I missed on the 2010 event at Chambers Bay, but I nailed the 2015 event.
Isn't the new search feature wonderful.
;D
USGA moves 2010 Senior Open from Sahalee to Chambers Bay, with anticipations that 2015 Open to be there now that Winged Foot has declined.
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Kmoum,
Understood those are the average "max" temps, but the US Open is played over a roughly 12 hour time slot. I think a 24 hr average temp is more accurate than a max temp that is only reached for what 1 hour of the day?
And come on, even the average high in June was still under 70 for that area. 69.3. :D :P
I played all my golf for about 30 years in extreme northern Minnesota, and summer temps like those in Tacoma are almost ideal for golf. They're significantly warmer than July in Scotland, which I also find about ideal.
And don't forget, unlike US Open venues in the northeast, summer in Tacoma is the driest part of the year. That why there are so many pine trees up there, the deciduous trees don't get enough rain in the summer to compete with the evergreens that grow all winter.
For instance, Tacoma averages 1.59" of precip in June, while Oakmont averages 3.93". Winged Foot averages 3.44". Pinehurst 4.24".
Ken
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I think the 2015 Open was earmarked for Winged Foot. But they turned it down. Those of you who have played both courses, which one do you think would work better? WFW or CB?
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Joe,
Are you sure Kyle wasn't trying to play his way into the '15 event?
I like the way you think Mike. ;)
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this news must really tee-off one Mr Trump! a muni gets it over his masterpiece in New Jersey??
I really like this choice....I am all for awarding the Open to different areas in the country....I think Hawaii should get one too.
Looks like I will have to get out there this year to see what all the good reviews are about!
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It's always been my preference to give the US to the great old courses, a "rotation" of sorts to Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pinehurst, Baltrusol, Oakland Hills, (dream: Riviera or LACC (North)). Especcially if those courses reward shotmaking (and not just aereal shotmaking) over attack-and-recover.
Whereas the PGA should stick to interesting, newer designs that promote interesting recoveries - Whistling Straits, Sebonack, Kinloch, Kiawah, Chambers Bay, Erin Hills, and maybe a few others (Caves Valley? Wade Hampton? Colorado or Boston Golf Clubs?)
Oh - and Torrey Hills should never have a major. Ever. Ever.
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Justin,
so you prefer the usga go to the pga castoffs once they become old?
;)
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Justin I disagree. If anything, US Open should stick to new and PGA should stick to old.
US Open is a national championship that is "open" to all. I think you should have the same policy when selecting a venue and preference should be given to a public site like Chambers Bay.
This is doubly true when a part of USGA's charter is to promote the game. A course like Chambers Bay NEED to be able to host events like this to survive and thrive. And given the fan reaction during the US Open at Bethpage, hosting a US Open on a muni is likely to generate more interest from "average" fans. I doubt that Shinnecock is going to lose much if they never host another US Open.
At the very least, half of the US Open should be hosted by public courses.
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Kmoum,
Understood those are the average "max" temps, but the US Open is played over a roughly 12 hour time slot. I think a 24 hr average temp is more accurate than a max temp that is only reached for what 1 hour of the day?
And come on, even the average high in June was still under 70 for that area. 69.3. :D :P
I played all my golf for about 30 years in extreme northern Minnesota, and summer temps like those in Tacoma are almost ideal for golf. They're significantly warmer than July in Scotland, which I also find about ideal.
And don't forget, unlike US Open venues in the northeast, summer in Tacoma is the driest part of the year. That why there are so many pine trees up there, the deciduous trees don't get enough rain in the summer to compete with the evergreens that grow all winter.
For instance, Tacoma averages 1.59" of precip in June, while Oakmont averages 3.93". Winged Foot averages 3.44". Pinehurst 4.24".
Ken
Ken,
The stats are correct, but this is one of the little jokes we in Seattle like to play on folks. The average rainfall always looks paltry compared to other areas as you showed. It shocks people when you tell them the number and they immediately think it is less wet than most of the country. Untrue. A more meaningful stat is how many days of rain there are. The 1.59 inches of rain sometimes comes in 7 days of mist and spritz, where the 3 inches in Pittsburgh could be a thunderstorm on one day. I am always amazed when it has rained for two weeks solid to find that total rain fall for the month is only a few inches.
I think mid June is iffy. It could be fine or it could be 4 days of constant drizzle. As was stated before, hopefully that won't matter due to the sand base.
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Congrats to the PW Nor'westers - hope I get out to see it before the Open. Not because I'm worried about alterations, just to enjoy the course.
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The big question:
Will the USGA bring REES JONES in to fix the course for the US Open
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The big question:
Will the USGA bring REES JONES in to fix the course for the US Open
A big question for you. What needs fixing? ;)
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Obviously, they will at least make the fairways tighter and figure out what to do with the short par 4 12th.
Now, will they get Jr to do that or Rees?
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Obviously, they will at least make the fairways tighter and figure out what to do with the short par 4 12th.
Now, will they get Jr to do that or Rees?
i say let the 2 of them duke it out on the first tee there , settle their battle once and for all, and the winner of course gets to do any tweaks to the course
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The weather up here can be a mixed bag in June it could be 55 degrees and raining lightly or 85-90 degrees and pretty hot. Unfortunately, since CB is on the Sound and not on the ocean, it doesn't really get very windy especially that time of year.
I played Chambers last October and thought it was great. I hope they don't narrow the fairways, but they probably will. There is really no rough to speak of on the course except for native grasses. Getting spectators around will be quite a trick as there are a few holes where a pull cart can't even get around without being pulled across the green. For some reason the courses with fescue greens seem to accept that.
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Justin I disagree. If anything, US Open should stick to new and PGA should stick to old.
US Open is a national championship that is "open" to all. I think you should have the same policy when selecting a venue and preference should be given to a public site like Chambers Bay.
This is doubly true when a part of USGA's charter is to promote the game. A course like Chambers Bay NEED to be able to host events like this to survive and thrive. And given the fan reaction during the US Open at Bethpage, hosting a US Open on a muni is likely to generate more interest from "average" fans. I doubt that Shinnecock is going to lose much if they never host another US Open.
At the very least, half of the US Open should be hosted by public courses.
what other public courses are worthy of a US Open? Not Torrey, in my view. Courses like Pebble, Kiawah, Whistling Straits, and Pinehurst are public in name only. That leaves you with what, Bethpage, Erin Hills, and Chambers Bay?
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Since I don't know - what do EH, CB, and Bethpage cost to play? What's the out of state rate for Bethpage? Why do you consider the others public in name only? I'm sure I know why, but I just want to hear what you say. Anyone can play them. Just because something is expensive does not mean it is not public. The others you mention sure as heck our public compared to Winged Foot, Oakmont, Shinnecock, and the other northeast courses that are used. Because if I could could play all the great courses in NYC for a few hundred bucks a pop I would. It'd be cheaper than a trip to Scotland playing the British Open courses. I know Bethpage had to hold rates for a period of time due to the U.S. Open contract but until they hold the tournament at a $20-30 muni I really don't care about the distinction. The difference between paying $100-150 and $300+ isn't that great. Plus for 95% plus of the people interested in playing any of these courses because the Open was held there they will have to travel and if they are traveling to the course they can afford just about any green fee they want.
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First of all, it's going to be interesting to see how far back they play Erin Hills. Fully stretched it's well over 8000 yards.
Secondly, it will be interesting to see what the other stroke play course for that particular Amateur will be. Milwaukee CC would be a great choice but I'm not sure if they'd be willing to do two championships (they have the Mid Am this year I think) in that close of proximity.
Adam:
I'm guessing it will be the Washington County course (a muni run by the county) designed by Art Hills and opened 10-15 years ago. Fairly wide open, some interesting bunkering, said to have very good greens, and some movement in the terrain. Can be windy -- it sort of sits on a high plain out here. It's near Hartford, the nearest town of any size, and the closest course to Erin Hills capable of handling golfers of Am potential.
Milwaukee CC, along with Brown Deer (the Milwaukee Co. muni that is the PGA tour stop) are co-hosting the Mid-Am this year. It's been a long, long time since Milwaukee CC has hosted any kind of tourney of note. I'm doubtful Milwaukee CC will go for the Amateur, for logistical and other reasons.
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Erin Hils last August was roughly $150. I wsn't enthralled by this course. I wouldn't place it in my top 5 in Wis. A good course but is it great? Some quirky holes to say the least. Well at least the state of Wis is getting their just due. Would have enjoyed seeing an event at U. Ridge or Bull at Pinehurst Farms to name a few.
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The cost of playing Pinehurst is beyond the rack rate, its also the required stay at the resort. $500+ for Pebble Beach. Not sure about Whistling Straits. That compared to $100 for Bethpage, $150 for Erin Hills? Not a contest.
And remember, my view is that the whole public open thing is overrated, since such few golfers will play the course regardless.
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The current rate for out-of-state players at Bethpage is around $90. The in state rate is around $40. That’s as cheap as any other municipal course in the area.
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Obviously, they will at least make the fairways tighter and figure out what to do with the short par 4 12th.
Now, will they get Jr to do that or Rees?
It doesn't take an architect to grow grass. And, I have no I idea what you are talking about with respect to the 12th. I would suggest that the best thing to do with the 12th would be to play it. Seldom will holding a championship on a 17 hole course work out very well.
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Current rate at Chambers Bay is $75 for out of county players $55 for in county residents.
Hurry the rate changes March 1.
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Weather in June is not really an issue. Particularly when you consider the chance of having a lightning delay is almost zero. Adding that to the prime time coverage in the east, a stunning setting and an adjacent three hundred acres of flat land for corporate, TV and the like, makes for an irresistable combination. I never really thought that a tour event was likely, and thought the Mid Am would come to Chambers , but this is just over the top.
Two other comments, the last time a course this new was used was Hazeltine in 1970. It was VERY controversial. You can look up the barnyard quote.
The other comment is that Pierce County Executive John Ladenburg has been driving this thing since the beginning. I have been convinced all along that he was over promising and could never deliver. God bless him, he seems to be able to deliver.
What is the going rate for corporate outings on the closest private club to the
US Open course? My guess is that we will be taking bids shortly! ;)
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The cost of playing Pinehurst is beyond the rack rate, its also the required stay at the resort. $500+ for Pebble Beach. Not sure about Whistling Straits. That compared to $100 for Bethpage, $150 for Erin Hills? Not a contest.
I don't get your point. Sure they are expensive, but I maybe able to afford anyone of those courses, if I desired.
US Open really isn't "open" either as I cannot compete in them since my handicap is too high. Should we just start calling it US Invitational?
The fact is by hosting US Open on muni courses, it will encourage more high end munis to be built. I doubt that Chambers Bay would have been possible without Bethpage's success. And to me that is the definition of promoting this game.
And I am sorry, if the worlds #1 player is excited about having US Open at Torrey Pines, that is good enough for me.
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The big question:
Will the USGA bring REES JONES in to fix the course for the US Open
Brilliant question Philippe, Mark has always told me how sharp you are! Love to hear what II would say when Rees drops in.
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Hey, I was right. I predicted that CB could host the US Open just 8 years after opening.
I wonder if they can grow US Open rough at CB.
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I was on the road yesterday and have now caught up with the news cycle.
Landenburg wants a $35 million clubhouse.........can anyone convince me that is neseccary? What will it cost to operate in non Open years? Are we going to have more than one open? What will $35 million buy the county? Is there a private investor/operator willing to undertake such a project?
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Great to see the USGA going into uncharted territory. Maybe a little risky on their part, but heck, risk=reward!
It is a little unfortunate that there are allready posts concerned with how the USGA will set up the course and questioning weather or not they will narrow up the fairways. Speaks volumes. If they do feel the need to tighten the fairways on this type of course 2 things come to mind.
1. - The course is flawed.
or
2. - They do not know what they are doing.
Also it would seem to me, if they narrow the fairways, why have the tournament there?
I have not had the good fortune of playing the course yet but it sure looks good. 7 years from now it should have matured nicely. I assume the course, because of its type, has optional routes of play, interesting angles and lines of charm - all different than the typical US Open course.
An intetesting dynamic. The USGA will conduct their championship at a venue designed by an architect (design firm) still alive.
As far as the whether, shouldn't even be an issue. Think of how miserable the temps and and storm event can be at most of the typical venue locations. It is awesome in the PNW in the summer and a shame that the tour does not swing through the region. How much southern/florida golf do we need!
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This is great news for the Pacific NW. Chambers Bay is a great course and I am very excited to have such a big event so close.
But, I still feel as though Chambers Bay is a much better PGA Championship course than a US Open course. If the fairways are narrowed, which I'm sure they will be, it takes away a lot of what Chambers has to offer. Sideways lies in the fairways, optimal angles into greens, and the overall look of the course will all be sacrificed if the USGA narrows the fairways. I hope that isn't the case.
It will also be interesting to see how fast the greens will be. With the severe slopes some of the holes present, putting could really be a task and in some cases impossible if going down a large tier. It should be very interesting.
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Did the USGA narrow fairways at Pinehurst? (Honest question)
The past 10 years or so, there seems to have been more of an emphasis to utilize a course strengths, rather than simply narrowing and growing heavy rough. Perhaps the powers that be won't go overboard.
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2015? Tiger will be turning 40 or will he be 40???? It could be his first Major after turning 40....I wonder how close he'll be to 20 Majors by then?
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Is there another US Open course that plays like a links course. The closest that comes to mind is Shinnecock. Could this be a paradagm shift* in golf design for pro tourneys? How differrent from TPC design is this layout?
Is this the closest venue to a British Open (of the links courses) ever selected?
I can't seem to remember . . . are the greens @ CB USGA spec or Pushups?
The selection is very surprising, except, of course, to soothesayer Bayley.
* always wanted to use those words in a sentence.
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Tiger will be 39. Nicklaus won his 3rd to last and 2nd to last majors at 40.
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Is there another US Open course that plays like a links course. The closest that comes to mind is Shinnecock. Could this be a paradagm shift* in golf design for pro tourneys? How differrent from TPC design is this layout?
Is this the closest venue to a British Open (of the links courses) ever selected?
I can't seem to remember . . . are the greens @ CB USGA spec or Pushups?
The selection is very surprising, except, of course, to soothesayer Bayley.
* always wanted to use those words in a sentence.
Actually Slag, The Amateur is not a big surprise to those of us who live here and have been following the story from the moment they announced the architect. Pierce County Executive landenberg had been 'promsing all along that something like this was the goal. Take a look at my post 94 above.
The Open being announced simultaneously, however, is a surprise. What is becoming clear is that the USGA s now going further afield because the event has achieved ridiculous proportions. Clubs like Wing Foot and Shinnecock are no longer willing to subject themselves to the inconvenience and expense of hlding the event.
Tacoma/ Pierce County have been looking for a way to remove themselves/ourselves from the shadow of Seattle for over 10 years and this has finally provided another opportunity to do so. Seattle media doesn't seem to have any idea of how to deal with this story. No worries, ESPN and the Golf Channel will accredit the event to Seattle, I' sure.
Just to sumarize: the course was designed for this eventuality. The site lends itself to this kind of circus, and the County and its Executive are banking on this making the project a financial success. That has been the goal for five years when they selected RT Jones II and went upscale risking the taxpayer dollars. Many of us here who doubted it would ever hapen are now eating crow, me included. Although we have been waiting for a USGA event since opening day, I simply thought it would be the Mid-Am.
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WH,
Thanks for all the details on how this course and event have come to be.
In your opinion, is this an appropriate way for a municipality to be involved in golf, specifically to provide a means of recreation to the local constituency? Does it have the potential to be a considerable burden on the local taxpayer, in light of the proposed clubhouse? Is this type of project going to spur on, or hinder more golf development in the area?
Thanks,
Joe
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Isn't change a grand thing???
I imagine most of the golfing locals are thrilled Chambers was awarded the 2015 U.S. Open, I personally have long yearned for a big tournament in our region, let alone a major!!! :o
I saw Jay Blasi at the Portland Golf Show today, needless to say he's ecstatic!!!
He reminded me it's the first time a new course has hosted the U.S. Open since 1970, Hazeltine, which was built by RTJones Sr. in 1962.
It's a significant moment in the history of the United States Open, we must embrace change, not fight it, people.
I'm sure it'll be a great tournament. For starters, the weather ought to be quite nice that time of year. 2015 gives the course 7-8 years to mature.
And as Bill Cosgrove pointed out, they considered the possibility of hosting a large tournament in designing the facility. Let Winged Foot turn away the U.S. Open, I can well imagine there is long line of courses besides Chambers Bay lining up to host a major tournament.
I expect it will play fast and firm, some wind should be blowing, it'll will be an interesting test of golf, narrow fairways or not.
Hey Nyk Pike!!!! The dream continues, buddy. You're the head pro at a course which is about to host the U.S. freaking Open!!!
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Cos,
Ladenberg wants to build a clubhouse, but i think the $35 milion covers a clubhouse, hotel and banquet hall, with the cost to be borne by the developer, which presumably they'd bid out.
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WH,
Thanks for all the details on how this course and event have come to be.
In your opinion, is this an appropriate way for a municipality to be involved in golf, specifically to provide a means of recreation to the local constituency? Does it have the potential to be a considerable burden on the local taxpayer, in light of the proposed clubhouse? Is this type of project going to spur on, or hinder more golf development in the area?
Thanks,
Joe
In a word NO!
Pierce County and John Ladenburg have always been convinced that this was the right thing to do. I don't see it creating new opportunity for the underserved, which I see as the duty of government. The county needed to do something with the property and there were other considerations.
Chambers has so far proven everyone wrong, so much for the naysayers in the community.
Brad, you're correct, the $35 million is said to include Lodging, Clubhouse, and practice facility and presumably will be underwritten by private development. I am still reticent to accept another huge bit of infrastructure to the Chambers property and would hope liability will be limited to the taxpayers.
You know me pretty well, this is as much as anything my conservatism and belief that government should limit their involvement in projects of this scale and purpose.
Now if you folks want to see a town that is super excited about an event 7 years away, come on over to T-Town and join in the celebration.
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Nothing against Chambers Bay in particular, but I think it's a bad thing -- only because it will make everybody developing a new public course drool unrealistically about hosting a U.S. Open themselves.
We don't need architects to create more potential U.S. Open venues. We need the USGA to do something about preserving the ones we've got.
I disagree. An area the size of Seattle/Tacoma with a property like Chambers Bay can realistically develop with the intention of attracting a major. I would suggest Dallas/Fort Worth or Houston might be successful to. They are probably overjoyed every time Tulsa hosts a major. ;) I would conclude that Portland isn't a large enough, but if it did try, I would hope that we'd throw the bums out.
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Slag,
The greens at Chambers are of course USGA spec, the course was built with the intention of hosting a USGA event and the Golf Course Superintendent is a former USGA employee.
The greens are also fescue, they roll at about 9-10' on the stimpmeter. I believe they will get them a little faster for the Open, but with the fescue it will not be possible nor necessary to get them much faster. These greens are very interesting and have an unbelievable amount of slope
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Slag,
The greens are also fescue, they roll at about 9-10' on the stimpmeter. I believe they will get them a little faster for the Open, but with the fescue it will not be possible nor necessary to get them much faster. These greens are very interesting and have an unbelievable amount of slope
How can you state that it will not be possible to get fescue greens much faster? It may not be necessary however, fescue greens can be managed to any speed required for the US Open (and then some)! It all comes down to cultural management and weather.
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Nothing against Chambers Bay in particular, but I think it's a bad thing -- only because it will make everybody developing a new public course drool unrealistically about hosting a U.S. Open themselves.
We don't need architects to create more potential U.S. Open venues. We need the USGA to do something about preserving the ones we've got.
What is bad about designing/building more fantastic public courses? Whether or not they get the U.S. Open, we the golfers can play on still more great layouts.
Seems to me the USGA preserving great courses is a separate issue from municipalities building new ones.
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On the issue of a municipality taking on or being subject to a financial failure of a leased-on developer to do such a clubhouse, lodge, facility, consider the little bureg of Green Bay and Brown County. We basically are paying .5% sales tax until the burder of the 500million upgrade of Lambeau Field a few years ago. The paydown is going splendidly on time, as is told by the powers that be.
For Pierce County, which is more populated than Brown Co., to be in second place behind the poetential developer, for a facility that is used nearly every day, generating revenue, seems a lot better than a facility like Lambeau that is used 10-12 times a year, but does have a pub-merch mall and atrium.
And, doesn't the USGA regularly provide upfront grants to the venue in advance, and didn't Bethpage get a few million and Torrey even more for upgrades? Will the USGA help with infrastructure development in the intervening 7 years.
BTW, here is a pic of a youngster who dreamed he would become a golf course archie who would have a hand in a course that would someday be an open venue - while he was still dreaming...
(http://www.madison.com/images/articles/tct/2008/02/08/62521.jpg)
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You know how at most open sites if you miss the fairway, you are in deep rough, but if you miss far enough, you are in trampled grass. I think I will enjoy seeing the pros miss far enough at Chambers Bay to be in trampled sand. If they thought the rough at Oakmont was penal, wait until they find their ball a the bottom of a foot print in the soft sand at Chambers Bay. When I found my self in such a position, I violated the 14 club rule and resorted to the hand wedge. But, then I was playing for fun, and not keeping score.
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Great point Garland.
The soft sand at Chambers Bay is extremely penal. When I end up in a footprint, it usually takes me 3 or 4 shots before I can get out. I have used a hand wedge as well.
But I would think a lot of that is going to be softened up by the time US Open comes around as much of that wasted area will be covered with tall fescue which will firm up the ground a bit.
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I haven't had a chance to try it, but I wonder if the best escape from some of the areas would be to hit it down slope away from the fairway, and then play the next one back onto the fairway.
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Is this a slap in the face to the people at Erin Hills?
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I wouldn't think it is an intentional slap in the face at all. I doubt that the USGA goes around slapping good people in golf's egos around. Mr. Lang surely wouldn't deserve a slap, more like a pat on the back for his firm convictions and labor of love and investment for the love of the game. But, at the end of the day, I would imagine the USGA made a deliberative decision, and picked CB for all the reasons, including possibly better architecture and design of a course more conducive to the kind of golf competition and in the area that they want to present.
Let's just wait and see how EH performs for the Women's Pub Links this summer, and some other tournaments that will be conducted there over the next few years. I'd love to see the college guys have a serious tournament there next to challenge some of the longer yardage options.
I firmly believe that what is known up to this time of the two newly opened courses, CB is the better choice. Heck in 8 years, there may be a hue and outcry to alter some holes, particularly at EH IMHO. 8 years can do a lot of things to a golf course, not all good things.
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In one of the few answers the USGA chose to give me, they wrote me that they were very interested in holding an open in the PNW. I suppose Erin Hills suffers the disadvantage of being in a region of the country that has had multiple majors. The USGA was not slapping anyone in the face, they were simply taking advantage of an opportunity that finally presented itself.
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You know how at most open sites if you miss the fairway, you are in deep rough, but if you miss far enough, you are in trampled grass. I think I will enjoy seeing the pros miss far enough at Chambers Bay to be in trampled sand. If they thought the rough at Oakmont was penal, wait until they find their ball a the bottom of a foot print in the soft sand at Chambers Bay. When I found my self in such a position, I violated the 14 club rule and resorted to the hand wedge. But, then I was playing for fun, and not keeping score.
How far offline do the pro's have to miss to get in this trampled sand -- i.e. how often do you think this will come up in the Open?
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I wouldn't think it is an intentional slap in the face at all. I doubt that the USGA goes around slapping good people in golf's egos around. Mr. Lang surely wouldn't deserve a slap, more like a pat on the back for his firm convictions and labor of love and investment for the love of the game. But, at the end of the day, I would imagine the USGA made a deliberative decision, and picked CB for all the reasons, including possibly better architecture and design of a course more conducive to the kind of golf competition and in the area that they want to present.
Let's just wait and see how EH performs for the Women's Pub Links this summer, and some other tournaments that will be conducted there over the next few years. I'd love to see the college guys have a serious tournament there next to challenge some of the longer yardage options.
I firmly believe that what is known up to this time of the two newly opened courses, CB is the better choice. Heck in 8 years, there may be a hue and outcry to alter some holes, particularly at EH IMHO. 8 years can do a lot of things to a golf course, not all good things.
Fair enough. I didn't mean to imply that said slap was intentional. It had just been my understanding that Erin Hills was to be the future US Open venue before Chambers Bay was in the mix. Of course, that may just be because I wasn't aware of Chambers Bay until later on in the process of its construction.
I find it interesting that when 2015 rolls around, Chambers Bay will be the youngest US Open site by a few decades, will it not? That kind of skips over 20 or 30 years of architecture, which is unusual.
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You know how at most open sites if you miss the fairway, you are in deep rough, but if you miss far enough, you are in trampled grass. I think I will enjoy seeing the pros miss far enough at Chambers Bay to be in trampled sand. If they thought the rough at Oakmont was penal, wait until they find their ball a the bottom of a foot print in the soft sand at Chambers Bay. When I found my self in such a position, I violated the 14 club rule and resorted to the hand wedge. But, then I was playing for fun, and not keeping score.
How far offline do the pro's have to miss to get in this trampled sand -- i.e. how often do you think this will come up in the Open?
Not that far, The whole course is built on that grey quicksand. I think that most of the problems will occur with wind effected shots over corners. #4, 6, 7 maybe 13. The sand was used on PNW courses for years, including my home course, and fried eggs were the norm rather than the exception.
I am playing Chambers for my 6th time tomorrow, last time out the course had already firmed and improved over how it played last summer. The ground game, even in December, was much more in play. Greens had also improved.
Superintendents might want to comment on methods that could be used to firm the sand up. The Chambers crew removed huge amounts of invasive plant growth that would have created some stability. The removal created some soft spots. Crews have also been lining green side bunkers as the soft sand was allowing for gravel and rock to rise through it. The screening of these materials during construction was a very expensive part of the project.
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This is a shocking move to me. I can think of 15 courses that would be better.
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Pat - please share which 15 that would be better, and why.
I don't know whether it's a good thing or not - but it's a stunning site and I'm interested in how the USGA will set it up and how it will play for the best players in the world. It's unique, and it's beauty and unpredictability will make for an interesting tournament.
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Obviously they wanted a course in the PNW and it is the only one possible.
Any word on what the second course will be for the AM in 2010? No offense to Cos, but I hope it is not the Home Course. Gold Mountain would be better assuming they want to keep it public, and it really isn't that far..
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I think the USGA would think that Gold Mountian is too far away. I actually think that Gold Mountain or Home Course is a toss up. Hell Sean, lets do it at Oakbrook or Fircrest. They are both closer. And both provide a strong test of golf, Fircrest as a PGA stop years ago and Oakbrook having withstood the Pacific Am and the Washington Open.
Gold Mountain is probably more inconsistent with weak holes at 4,14,17,and 18. And very good par threes and a strong 7 and 9.
Home course is more consistent with fewer weak holes and not as many really strong holes. It does posess prodigious length at 7400 possible yards.
After all of the commentary, I think you would find the competition is between the Home Course because of it being owned by the association and Tacoma Country and Golf as a reward for having held so many previous USGA events.
Sean I don't care where the second venue is, I'm still trying to get over the shock of having Chambers get the Am and the Open. That may take until 2015 to actually believe. We'll have to have some of that conversation over a round of golf and a beverage.
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The discussion of worth PNW courses to host a US Am or US Open is interesting. Given the proportions of those events, the possible options have become very limited indeed.
I recall discussions/propaganda in the early-mid 80's when it was new that Bear Creek in Woodinville was created to be a course worthy of consderation to host a major tournament.
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I think the USGA would think that Gold Mountian is too far away. I actually think that Gold Mountain or Home Course is a toss up. Hell Sean, lets do it at Oakbrook or Fircrest. They are both closer. And both provide a strong test of golf, Fircrest as a PGA stop years ago and Oakbrook having withstood the Pacific Am and the Washington Open.
Gold Mountain is probably more inconsistent with weak holes at 4,14,17,and 18. And very good par threes and a strong 7 and 9.
Home course is more consistent with fewer weak holes and not as many really strong holes. It does posess prodigious length at 7400 possible yards.
After all of the commentary, I think you would find the competition is between the Home Course because of it being owned by the association and Tacoma Country and Golf as a reward for having held so many previous USGA events.
Sean I don't care where the second venue is, I'm still trying to get over the shock of having Chambers get the Am and the Open. That may take until 2015 to actually believe. We'll have to have some of that conversation over a round of golf and a beverage.
Cos,
Maybe 2 beverages. Need more than that to determine who is more shocked, you or me.
Funny story. Two weeks ago, I was having dinner with some buddies at Daniels in Bellevue and the topic of golf comes up with the waiter. He says he doesn't know much about golf, but heard that Chambers Bay was getting the US Open in 2015 (This was a full week before the announcement). I didn't disagree with him out loud, but after he left, I said to my friends that there was no way it was true, and there was no way that that course would get an Open. No way, no how.
Would being the second course be that prestigious of a reward for Tacoma CC?
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Cos and Sean,
I think you two need to be more progressive thinkers. ;)
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No need to stay on the resort to play The Ocean Course. Rates now $242. March 14-May 29 and September 12-November 27 is $350. May 30-September 11 is $265 ($245 after 2pm). November 28 to March 12, 2009 is $254 Rates are generally between $25-$50 less if you stay with the resort.
Also, there are no "caddie fees." We just ask that you remember that gratuities are accepted by caddies...
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Sean, did that waiter give out any stock advice? :)
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Maybe the USGA guys out there scouting have the same taste as you guys in where to eat... ;) ;D ::)
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Maybe the USGA guys out there scouting have the same taste as you guys in where to eat... ;) ;D ::)
Dick,
Good point. It is definitely a USGA sort of place. :)
It seemed to be a pretty guarded secret, so I wonder where he heard it.
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Isn't it pretty obvious?
Either USGA folks were visiting CB to confirm the offer and CB folks took USGA folks out to dinner at Daniel's to celebrate and the waiter overheard the conversation.
OR
CB hear the offer a week ago and went out for a celebration where the waiter overheard the conversation.