Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_Tully on July 24, 2007, 01:34:33 AM
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Post a pic of the craziest bunker that you have ever seen in person or in a photo.
Here's mine.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/1fescue/img148.jpg)
Lots of questions regarding this one...
Who built it?
Why?
Where did it fit in relation to the hole?
How did they maintain it?
Was this only on one hole or was it a feature found throughout the course?
Can anyone identify the course?
For a time frame this was published in 1894-5!
I will have to track down the magazine.
Tully
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The famous clubhouse is in its infancy in this photograph, it grows significantly longer and more impressive over time.
This 5th hole was built as a 151-yard long and named “Bastion” due to the fortress-like embankment five feet high obstructing the approach to the green (to the left). I'm not sure if it was designed and built by Willie Davis or Willie Dunne, but given the date of the photograph, it might be Davis as Dunne was revising and adding 6 holes to the 12 hole course in 1895.
The iteration today is my favorite course and bears no resemblance at all to this early iteration. A famous curmudgeon completed a major redesign of the course in 1916. A mere 15 years later, nothing was left of that design. Except for lengthening, the course has remained remarkably true to its 1931 iteration.
Sean,
Would you please IM me if you find this article? I would love to see the entire piece. Thanks for posting the photograph.
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The clubhouse is by a famous architect- Stanford White.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/Shin9.jpg)
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Attached is a photo of a recent "bunker" that I saw in person; Stone Eagle #8. Well positioned, a natural face, incredibly deep, somewhat hidden off the tee, but very much in the mind. In the designer's words, "the most severe hazard we've ever built on a golf course". Top notch.
Tee shot - a glimpse of the face on the RH side - very bold but ideal line for tee shot
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o65/soylent10/stoneeagle/CIMG1016.jpg)
Walking by - ~10' depth to base of pit
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o65/soylent10/stoneeagle/CIMG1017.jpg)
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Other photos from the same course Sean posted earlier and all from 1894 (I think I remember the source):
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1215/885969781_798e1760a6_o.jpg)
Another photo of the Bastion Bunkers
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1003/885969759_d537e92381_o.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1204/885969709_b9b72f5dfa_o.jpg)
Huntingdon Valley CC's 4th in 1899
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/885969805_3bdd207018.jpg)
Huntingdon Valley CC's 14th in 1909 with a raised bunker within the green (inspiration for George Thomas?)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1058/885969793_1a792b90c6_o.jpg)
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A few I've seen in person:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Sand%20Hills/figurine.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Seaview%20-%20Bay/sb12bunker.jpg)
Not Oakmont:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Blue%20Heron%20Pines%20-%20East/b04cp.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Tot%20Hill%20Farm/tothillfarm18.jpg)
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Jon,
That bunker at SE is very deep, maybe 15-18 feet. My ball during my one play there was suspended in the light green bush above the bunker at 9 o'clock in the photo. I ended up getting up and down for a smooth 6. Nice.
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(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/1fescue/img148.jpg)
Sean,
I think it's a neat looking feature.
I'd like to understand its function better.
Does anyone have an aerial of this golf course, even one taken subsequent to the removal of the bunker feature ?[/color]
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Pat,
This hole ran SW with the green just N of the RR tracks 100 yards E of Tuckahoe Rd. The sand faced the tee with the green on the opposite side of the mounding. I haven't seen an aerial that shows remnants of the hole as it was replaced with Macdonald's holes.
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i will let the phila guys guess the course on this one
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/paxonpro/scan0001-1.jpg)
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Muirfield has a few very good bunkers, only one I'd call extreme. If anyone has a photo of the cross bunkers at #17, please post it. That is the narrowest, deepest, nastiest stacked sod bunker anywhere. Not that I was ever in it! :o
There's nothing too extreme about the right side greenside bunker on #18, but the island feature is pretty cool:
(http://www.scotlandforgolf.co.uk/images/courses/muirfield.jpg)
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Racetrack,
Oooh! Oooh! I know. That's what results when you let a woman do a man's job. Just kidding!
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Racetrack -
Interesting picture. Are those cop bunkers on the left side of the picture? And what is that stuff top right? Alpinization?
So, Wayno, where was this stuff? Philly Cricket?
Bob
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(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/paxonpro/scan0001-1.jpg)
Racetrack,
I don't know the golf course, but, I like a green surrounded by bunkers, especially daunting bunkers.
IM me the name of the golf course as I'd like to Google Earth it.
Thanks
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Wow, Racetrack...that was PH?
I know that course routing changed quite a bit over time. Is that greensite still around?
Interestingly, the original was designed by J. Franklyn Meehan (who did other greens surrounded by bunkers at Ashbourne, for instance), and Frances Warner.
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not PH
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i thought wayne would know
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LuLu?
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NOT LU LU
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the green sites in that pic are still in the same place today. i suspect some of them have been rebuilt.
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George,
Wow, those are sure some funky dolomites.
Has the course in question hosted a US Open?
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Call me crazy, but I like it. It flies in the face of those who insist that the best golf courses are those who appear "to have been there all along" (to paraphrase). Unabashed artificiality can be fun, and I think it adds a bit of "nouveau" artistry.
Call it a bit of Piet Mondrian in a world that mostly prefers the work of Winslow Homer.
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(http://www.golfgroupltd.com/images/projects/large_imgs/coldwater-15b.jpg)
This bunker is nearly round, and about 60 feet across. The sleepers are quite laid back (their lazy I suppose) and form the greenside. A active railroad flanks the back of the green.
It does not win out over Bastion — I do not suppose any of us will be able (or desire) to match Bastion!
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Racetrack George's photograph is of The Springhaven Club. Although Ida Dixon laid out the first course (perhaps the first female golf course architect in America) the geometric bunkers with rounded corners and mounding was the 1910 work of Herbert H Barker, professional at Garden City. The line of play on the par 3 with the bunkers surrounding the green is from the bottom of the photograph.
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Wayne,
Are you sure that is Barker's work on the bunkers?
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Wayne -
Am I right in seeing cops, Mid-Surrey mounding and other geometric stuff?
Is this the same Barker that did the Capital City course at Brookhaven in Atlanta?
BTW, Capital City voted several months ago to completely redo the Brookhaven course. There will be almost nothing left of the old course that dates to about 1912. Bob Cupp is doing the work.
Bob
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Bob,
Herbert Barker did do Capital City in 1911.
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Thanks Mark.
Based on the Springhaven pictures, I would love to see what Barker's original Capital City course looked like.
I was in touch with several of the board members (I am not a member) at CCC during the decsion making process and the idea of restoring anything was never seriously considered.
Bob
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Scott,
Thanks for posting this picture of the small greenside bunker right of Tot Hill Farm's 18th green.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Tot%20Hill%20Farm/tothillfarm18.jpg)
Hopefully you have a photo looking down on it from the green. It's a real beaut.
I love the Springhaven photograph and the squared steeplechase/hurdle bunkers. In today's world, two passes with the Sandpro and you're on to the next one.
Mike
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A few I've seen in person:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Sand%20Hills/figurine.jpg)
That would be a pure monster to rake.
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That would be a pure monster to rake.
Matthew, you are not the first to fall for this ruse that is perpetrated as a ritual at Sand Hills. As Dr. Greco will confirm, the golfer you see is actually a small figurine placed in the bunker to make it look much larger than it actually is. This photo is even more creative in that the perpetrator has photo-shopped in a small stand-bag on the right!
Otherwise, the club would need to retain the services of a retired Japanese rock gardener and build him a nearby pagoda to dwell in.
Mike
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That would be a pure monster to rake.
Matthew, you are not the first to fall for this ruse that is perpetrated as a ritual at Sand Hills. As Dr. Greco will confirm, the golfer you see is actually a small figurine placed in the bunker to make it look much larger than it actually is. This photo is even more creative in that the perpetrator has photo-shopped in a small stand-bag on the right!
Otherwise, the club would need to retain the services of a retired Japanese rock gardener and build him a nearby pagoda to dwell in.
Mike
Is it say, bigger than the driving bunker left of RCD#12
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Double Post.
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Mark,
It wasn't Ida Dixon (who was helped by Horace Rawlins in laying out the original course) and I don't think it was the work of Andy Campbell (Springhaven professional) who did some work in the early 1920s just prior to Flynn's arrival. Bob Labbance thinks it is the work of HH Barker and I don't know differently. Who do you think did it?
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Wayne,
I don't know, but from what I've studied of Barker for our MP work at Arcola (1909 Barker design), I would be surprised if that is his bunker work at Springhaven. There is not much left of Barker at Arcola and we didn't spend too much time researching him as Arcola had already been almost completely redesigned by RTJones in the 1950's. The old photos we have of Arcola dating back to the teen's and 20's look nothing like that photo of Springhaven. I don't profess to be an expert on Barker, but it would also surprise me given Barker's time at Garden City. What do you think?
Mark
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I think I'll go along with Bob Labbance's research. He spent a lot of time studying Springhaven Club and wrote their club history. Given that I am not going to research the club nor Barker, I think I'll give Bob the nod.
Bob cites a contemporary article that discusses the improvements to the course mentioning Barker's involvement and the addition of 50 pits, many guarding the approaches to greens.
Nothing surprises me and I've learned not to make up my mind without digging deep. In this case, I am not applying myself to the study of the course and highly regard Bob Labbance's skill as a researcher. Given my level of interest and his abilities, that's good enough for me.
Bob Crosby,
Pretty cool stuff, huh? Nothing remains, unfortunately. Hope all is well and that we get together sometime later this year.
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Wayne,
Bob could very well be right and if we were doing restoration of Barker at Arcola I'd be inclined to delve into this much deeper. One thought to consider - Barker designed Columbia CC in Maryland in 1910 which was later redesigned in part by Flynn in I believe 1923. Do you have any early photos of that golf course? Might be interesting to compare to Springhaven.
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I have a few old photos, some as early as 1914.
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Do any of them look similar to Springhaven?
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Mark Fine,
You asked for this in a different thread, but here it is from a friend at Hollywood.
Not sure of the date.
(http://www.watervilleresearch.com/images/hw4)
From Ran's 2001 review:
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/000000721.jpg)
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(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/1fescue/img148.jpg)
There's a bunker just like this still going strong at Bigbury GC in Devon. I think it was a Harry Vardon quick stake out job but I guess he added a few cop bunkers or whatever was in vogue at the time.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/058460/bigburybastionbunker.closejpg.jpg?t=1187256433)
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Bump...
This bunker at the green at 14 at Dismal is off the charts extreme.
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/DismalRiver15.jpg)
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Hole 3 at Prairie Club:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/032ndshotfromright.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/03rightfairwaybunker.jpg)
Hole 12 at Prairie Club - this one took cahones to build:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/12teeblack.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/12centerlinecloseup.jpg)
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/jaygolfusa/DSCN0851.jpg)
"Chambers Basement" or the new bunker on the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.
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That last picture kind of reminds me of a couple of the fairway bunkers Eric Iverson built at Common Ground [although Eric's fit into the ground a bit better]. Is it 320 yards off the tee and left of center?
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Tom it reminds me of the fairway bunkers on 4 at Portrush
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Tom, I played Common Ground this past summer and I don't remember a bunker like the "Basement" at Chambers Bay. Which hole is that one on?
The one pictured is about 100 yards or so short of the 18th green at Chambers Bay. The 18th is a Par 5 that stretches to around 600 yards from the back tee. If you're in this bunker, you have NO shot at the green. The play is out to the left and then run the next shot onto the green.
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Tom, I played Common Ground this past summer and I don't remember a bunker like the "Basement" at Chambers Bay. Which hole is that one on?
The one pictured is about 100 yards or so short of the 18th green at Chambers Bay. The 18th is a Par 5 that stretches to around 600 yards from the back tee. If you're in this bunker, you have NO shot at the green. The play is out to the left and then run the next shot onto the green.
Joe:
Both the 13th and 15th holes at Common Ground have a deep fairway bunker out around 310-320 yards off the tee, left of center, built into a dip in the fairway. Each of them is about eight feet deep; you can hit the green from the bunker on 13 with a great shot, but I doubt many people can do it from the one on 15.
I didn't remember that the hole at Chambers Bay was so long ... I thought from the photo the bunker looked about the right distance from the green to have a similar purpose. So, it's really about 500 yards from the tee on a 600 yard hole? Is there a great advantage to be gained by getting past it? Otherwise I would think most people would just lay up.
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(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/paxonpro/scan0001-1.jpg)
Racetrack,
I don't know the golf course, but, I like a green surrounded by bunkers, especially daunting bunkers.
IM me the name of the golf course as I'd like to Google Earth it.
Thanks
I believe these are the current 8th and 9th holes.
Mark
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Tom:
I remember those bunkers now. Thankfully, I didn't find them. I liked Common Ground a lot, by the way.
The Basement at Chambers Bay was added this year in anticipation of the 2015 US Open. You're right, most responsible players will lay up short of the Basement on their 2nd shot, unless they're going for the green in two after a long tee shot. Their is another bunker, however, that is about 30 to 50 yards short and right of the Basement, which juts way out into the fairway. It means the player has to choose carefully on the layup. It has diminished the room for error.
I played the 18th in a match last week and played my "layup" past the Basement. I find that I have a lot more luck getting to a pin in the back (where there is a backboard) by running a 60-yard 5-iron pitch shot along the ground. But that's me.
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How does one mow the grass leading into that basement bunker??
Mark
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How does one mow the grass leading into that basement bunker??
Mark
I would think with a Flymo and some kind of extension (or do the upper half from the top and the lower half from the bottom). They're neat to watch in use....they remind me of the Land Speeders from Star Wars....they hover.
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/jaygolfusa/DSCN0851.jpg)
"Chambers Basement" or the new bunker on the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.
I would aim for that thing. Has to be recent.
Anthony
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Some others that made an impression on me...
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/TOC14Hell.jpg)
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/TobaccoRoad11.jpg)
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/HarbourTown13II.jpg)
This is one I'm pumped to see come around...
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/dr2.png)
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I stilll think "The Brazilian" is a better name for that hideous new bunker at Chambers Bay.
Bogey
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Royal New Kent has some very extreme bunkers. Green side bunkers with bunker flloors 15 or so feet below the green surface.