Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Kyle Harris on February 20, 2006, 09:16:53 PM
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I am looking for a copy of this book written by John Adams in 1991 to continue my research on Willie Park, Jr. and his architecture.
My internet searches (including www.alibris.com) have all turned up for naught.
Anybody know where I can get a copy or perhaps borrow one?
How good is the actual book? I am following a citation made in David Goddard's "The Maidstone Links" regarding Willie Park's involvement at the PSU White Course which stated it was one of 9 courses he was fully involved in at the time, along with Maidstone. I'd like something more concrete to prove that Park was at PSU though - like a primary source. ;)
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Too bad, one was for sale on ebay maybe 3 weeks ago. I know, not much help. :(
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Andy,
It is. Just need to watch around on there too. Any idea of the final bid price?
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No, I don't remember the price but I do remember it was pricey, over $100. Pricey to me anyway ;)
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Pricey to me as well. It is considered rare and out of print though, so that doesn't help matters.
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$107.
My bold bid of $10 or so didn't seem to scare anyone.
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http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/338-Adams-John-The-Parks-ofMusselburgh_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28221QQitemZ6596050287QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/338-Adams-John-The-Parks-ofMusselburgh_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28221QQitemZ6596050287QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)
Not sure how up to date this is , but there is one listed at 85 pounds :
http://www.irishgolfbooks.com/classic_golf_books.htm
Best Regards
Brian
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Kyle
It's good book. There is no mention of the course specifically in the book, but there is an old advertisement for Willie in which he lists his courses and State College is listed (he lists it as a course he designed and supervised). I'm sure that is what Goddard is referring to.
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Thanks Tom... can you give me a page number?
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Its on page 130...when I get a chance I'll make a copy and send it to you.
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Thanks again Tom. The citations I am referring to are on Page 106 as per Maidstone Links.
I have no idea which edition that would be, though, or if there are even more than one edition of the book.
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Kyle,
Have you gone to the PSU archives? It is a state university, they probably have the records for the work done. You may find the contract, correspondence, and who knows? Maybe plans and construction instructions are somewhere in the Joe Pa library or wherever the archives are kept. I'd start digging there and see what you can find. Maybe the recreation department keeps those records. Start sniffing. And keep your eye out for William Flynn or Joe Valentine lecture transcripts. Now go west young man and don't come back till you've found something.
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Wayne,
I've had modest success there (biggest find so far was the first picture in the My Home Course). The Penn State Courses have what I would think is the Park presentation plan displayed in the clubhouse. I am heading up next Monday and Tuesday to do a more exhaustive search and have set up an appointment with the archives librarian to look for anything White Course, Flynn and Valentine related (I didn't forget you, after all).
I am probably going to try and get in touch with Jim Nagle or Ron Forse today and follow up on a conversation I had with Jim last year.
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Kyle:
As I said to you last night I have some sense that Park jr just may be one of the last of the really great old architects in golf architecture's early evolution about which the usual information is fairly lacking.
I haven't seen Adam's book on Park jr but it seems like Park jr may've been on such a whirlwind pace over here after WW1 that the usual information is lacking.
It's interesting that Maidstone, for instance, never had more information on what exactly Willie Park jr did there. Goddard's book is really comprehensive in various ways but even he couldn't seem to determine what Willie did there in some specific cases and what may've been done there by Willie's brother (who was the pro there) and attributed to Willie.
But I'll tell you I sure would like to know where any text by Willie to do with any course or particularly architectural drawings by Willie Park jr are if he even did any. It doesn't seem like he kept any and it doesn't seem like much was left with any of the clubs he worked on.
There're some architectural archive initiatives brewing and Willie Park jr seems to be the most mysterious one as to raw documentation. I hope more real Park jr material is out there somewhere hiding in some cracks and crevices. It wouldn't surprise me as Willie Park jr doesn't get the renewed respect yet others of his era have gotten and that he deserves, in my opinion.
Who's the author Adams? Has anyone tried to contact him?
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Tom,
Mike Malone, Doug and I were alluding the that point on the Restoration thread I started last week. We drew something on an analogy with William Flynn's recent rise in stature (at least in these circles) as compared to Donald Ross or AW Tillinghast. The Castine Golf Club history linked here: http://www.castinegolfclub.com/history-castine-gc.htm (http://www.castinegolfclub.com/history-castine-gc.htm) has this diagram up on their website. http://www.castinegolfclub.com/hist-park-plan.htm (http://www.castinegolfclub.com/hist-park-plan.htm)
While I can't verify the voracity of that diagram it is my hope that some snooping at PSU may yeild something similar. Like I mentioned, they do have the large routing diagram at the PSU Golf Courses. However, this does not seem detailed enough to be a construction diagram, and I wonder if anything pertaining to the construction still exists.
(http://static.flickr.com/6/5814311_0dc710aeeb_b.jpg)
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Kyle -
Anything that you can turn up on Woodway C.C. in Darien, CT (Circa 1916) would be greatly appreciated by our members...
Thanks,
JWK
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Kyle
I don't think John Adams is still living, but based on the book he didn't appear to have much info on State College anyway. I agree with Wayne by far your best resource would be right there at Penn St., most likely in the University Archives. That is assuming the Athletic Dept archives are part of the university archives, if not, go to the Athletic Dept. I'd also try to find out who the Athlectic Director was at the time, and look for his papers.
My guess is Park did produce indiviual hole plans for the White course like Castine. I've seen similar plans at Ashland and Battle Creek - they look a lot like Ross.
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Kyle
If your course were built 80-100 years ago, perhaps Joe Paterno had a hand in it?
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There is a new biography of Park entitled "Willie Park Junior" published in England by someone named Stephens. I think someone posted a review of the book a while ago. I ordered it a few weeks ago and it hasn't shown up yet.
As to his drawings or other materials, I have not uncovered much at all in my research at Olympia Fields. One drawing of the North Course that may or may not have been done by him, and only a very few construction photographs or early photos of the course. Almost nothing that shows original greens aside from video from the 1928 U.S. Open that shows 2 greens that look similar to what I see out there today (holes 9 and 16). A great picture of one bunker on 16, which also looks similar to the bunkering done before the 2003 Open. Also, there is an article from a newsletter in 1924 or 25 showing the greens construction, with a drawing of the various layers. All in all, very small beer.
Jeff Goldman