Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Kevin Pallier on February 27, 2010, 11:16:30 PM
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Cypress Point (CP) is “hallowed” turf in every sense of the word. I can only think of a few golf courses that I have experienced where I suggest it’s almost a religious experience in just being there. Just as Michelangelo is lauded for his masterpiece in the Sistine Chapel surely Mackenzie can get similar dues for his masterpiece at CP ?
Like TOC – Cypress Point has “a soul” and if your senses and emotions aren’t stirred standing on the first tee – you are a hard person to please. Some say the “experience” is as important as the golf itself and I could think of fewer places in the golfing world where I’d rather be right now than back at CP taking in the sights and sounds of the Monterey Peninsula jewel.
If you get an opportunity to visit CP - I suggest you prepare yourself for an education and what better teacher is there in Dr Alister Mackenzie ? The routing is superb: the way the course transitions from parkland, to woodland to duneland to ocean coastline golf is brilliant in itself. Some have suggested that the only blight on the course is the finishing hole but they forget that you have to get back to where you started and what a better place to finish than to overlook this….
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/CPCSunrise.jpg)
I will forever be indebted to the gentlemen who helped me to fulfil a lifelong dream and I think it’s only fair to present an 18 hole exploration of my thoughts on my one and surely only visit to such a Mecca.
Holes:
1st = (P4: 420yds) A drive over a small hedge downhill to a wide fairway with bunkers left that then narrows uphill to a green that similar to the first at NGLA in that it’s design is a study in itself. Is there a better walk than this ?
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/1c.jpg)
2nd = (P5: 548yds) is a pretty tough hole across a ridge and the #1 Index. The right hand side is flanked by an OOB fence line and the left protected by a deep gully and bunker. The hole again narrows to a green site that is quite long and has some small internal movement in it.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/2a.jpg)
3rd = (P3: 162yds) is a slight downhill P3 to a well protected green. I enjoyed the other P3’s more so than this hole.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/3a.jpg)
4th = (P4: 384yds) is the hole that transitions you into the woodland area of the property and requires an accurate drive and approach shot. Mackenzie is famous for his army camouflage roots and one couldn’t help but notice as you look from the hole back down the property that the bunkers appear to disappear.
The bunkering is extensive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/4c.jpg)
Then the bunkers appear to then disappear:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/4f.jpg)
5th = (P5: 493yds) is an uphill dogleg left P5 that requires an accurate drive through a chute of trees with a large bunker protecting the inside of the dogleg. The hole then progressively climbs uphill to a green that is protected by bunkers left and right as well as a central cross bunker.
The bunkers on the approach
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/5b.jpg)
Are large but again..
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/5c.jpg)
Are well camouflaged
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/5e.jpg)
6th = (P5: 518yds) is the second of the famous B2B P’5’s and is downhill with a significant right to left cant in the fairway. The approach shot looks simple enough but hitting off a side/downhill lie is not. The large dune in the background is a sign of the transition to come
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/6b.jpg)
7th = (P3: 168yds) is uphill to a small offset green. A large wasteland area of a dune protects the left hand side and three bunkers punish anything short.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/7b.jpg)
8th = (P4: 363yds) is a semi-blind drive across a dune to a fairway that moves sharply uphill and to the right. The green has multiple tiers in it and leaves a quick putt from above the hole.
The drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/8a.jpg)
The hole from behind the green:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/8d.jpg)
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9th = (P4: 292yds) is downhill and tempts you to take driver. The waste bunkers off to the right will add a significant degree of difficulty for the second shot from there whilst there is a similar area left as well. The green is quite at an oblique angle similar to the 10th at another of Mackenzie’s short P4 creations: 10RMW and slopes significantly back to front
The vista from the 9th is wonderful
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/9a.jpg)
The drive (note the sand):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/9b.jpg)
The narrow green:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/9f.jpg)
10th = (P5: 480yds) an elevated drive down to a fairway that doglegs to the right aside the 6th hole. The fairway then climbs uphill to a deceptive green that is surrounded by bunkers.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/10a.jpg)
11th = (P4: 437yds) doglegs ever so slightly to the right and is a tight drive with a green set back towards the main central dune.
The drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/11a.jpg)
There is less room right than it appears from the tee:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/11b.jpg)
12th = (P4: 404yds) doglegs significantly to the right and has an ever present series of bunkers protecting the elevated green.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/12a.jpg)
13th = (P4: 365yds) is the last of the dune holes with a well protected green and takes one back to the Pacific Ocean
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/13.jpg)
14th = (P4: 388yds) is a sharp dogleg right amongst the cypresses to a narrow skyline green
The drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/14a.jpg)
The approach:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/14b.jpg)
15th = (P3: 143yds) the first of the famous P3’s in golf and offers a teasing glimpse of the following “all-world” 16th.
The panorama at the 15th tee
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/15a.jpg)
The 15th up close:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/15e.jpg)
16th = (P3: 231yds) words cannot describe the breathtaking beauty of this hole.
Drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/16b.jpg)
Lay-up:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/16d.jpg)
Green (note the ball :P )
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/16j.jpg)
17th = (P4: 393yds) is a dogleg right along the ocean coastline. A long and tall series of Cypresses split the fairway and they are to be avoided at all costs. The green is tucked back on an outcrop at the corner of the property.
Drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/17a.jpg)
Approach:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/17b.jpg)
18th = (P4: 346yds) a myriad of Cypresses protect the drive then one is faced with an uphill approach to a deceptively narrow and very quick green to finish off one’s journey.
Drive:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/18a.jpg)
Approach:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/18b.jpg)
Mackenzie is quoted as saying in 1932:
“I do not expect anyone will ever have the opportunity of constructing another course like Cypress Point as I do not suppose anywhere in the world is there such a glorious combination of rocky coast, sand dunes pine woods and cypress trees.”
How profound - nearly 80 years on we are still waiting……
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.....and the wait will never end.
Spectacular.
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Thanks Kevin....
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(Drooling)
So awesome, new desktop background. :D
One question, why the heck don't they cut down that centerline tree on 18? Only qualm I have, otherwise it looks like what I imagine heaven looks like.
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Some day, hopefully.
Great pictures Kevin, how on earth were you able to get on all these courses ???
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Kevin,
Thank you for sharing these photos with us. Is there a more breathtaking place to play golf than Cypress Point?
What did you enjoy most about the course? MacKenzie's greens and bunkers? The par-3's?
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Wow - breathtaking photos and congratulations on getting to the Holy Grail!
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Wow...
I had almost forgotten exactly how good all that is.
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The feeling of playing at CPC is like no other. As Kevin stated, it is somewhat akin to a religious experience. Never have I cared so little about playing so badly. The sense of peace I had afterwards was incredible. Great pics, Kevin, and thanks for sharing. It was a nice reminder of how lucky I was to exprerience such a place.
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Kevin,
Brilliant photo tour. Reminded me of my round there a few years ago. It was my most enjoyable round of golf. Brilliant day, great company and the caddies enhanced the experience.
Thanks for sharing.
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Kevin
Wonderful photos! Nothing quite like the place.
Shameless plug for a photo slideshow added for those that want to see a few additional photos per hole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auRtefNMzU0
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Kevin
Wonderful photos! Nothing quite like the place.
Shameless plug for a photo slideshow added for those that want to see a few additional photos per hole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auRtefNMzU0
Thanks for sharing Tim. Not only a flawless course but it seems you get perfect weather when playing it. :)
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Great pictures Kevin, how on earth were you able to get on all these courses ???
Emil
With a great deal of patience, planning and of course generosity by a large number of people.
Kevin,
Thank you for sharing these photos with us. Is there a more breathtaking place to play golf than Cypress Point?
What did you enjoy most about the course? MacKenzie's greens and bunkers? The par-3's?
More breathtaking ? I certainly haven't seen one.
I enjoyed the transitions into the different terrains. Mackenzie does it superbly.
I also liked the greens - the caddies are a must have when trying to read them - so true and so quick !!
Kevin,
Brilliant photo tour. Reminded me of my round there a few years ago. It was my most enjoyable round of golf. Brilliant day, great company and the caddies enhanced the experience.
Ash
The company do indeed add to the experience. Bob / Mike / Sean and Steve made it ever so special. I have never seen wider grins on a collective group of grown men throughout the day ;D
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Outstanding. Great photos.
Anything surprise you about the course? Favorite holes (outside of 16)?
Thoughts about the 18th?
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Thanks for sharing the photos and your thoughts, Kevin.
I really like your first pic. That view of the 16th from behind the clubhouse really gets the goosebumps started.
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Nice tour Kevin.
I will always remember my round at CPC playing in a two ball in the first group off. Definitely like a religious experience. Only better.
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Thank you Kevin.
What was your favorite hole?
What shocked you most about the course?
How did the inland holes compare to what you thought they would be prior to your round?
What was your favorite par-5?
Did you go for 9?
Kevin, thanks for sharing. Its fun to hear about people's rounds out there. For such a revered course, I found the atmosphere very warm and friendly. The pro shop staff, and head pro Mr. Reamer are all great guys and really friendly. Everything there is perfect. I'm glad to hear you loved it, then again I might be worrying about you if you hadn't! Thanks again for sharing!!
Cheers,
Jordan
ps did you get a chance to try the oatmeal raisin cookies in the shack left of 11?
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You forgot to mention that it was windy that day ...
(http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp6/TheOrange2002/Cypress%20Point%20Oct%202009/IMG_1807.jpg)
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Anything surprise you about the course? Favorite holes (outside of 16)?
Thoughts about the 18th?
Rob
Surprises ?
Books dont prepare you for the views. As I said words cant do the 16th any justice at all. Like the Grand Canyon - it needs to be experienced to be believed.
Favourite holes ? 15 &16 are standouts as are 8 & 9. I liked the P5's and the variety therein.
18th ?
It was hard for me to get a visual line on 18. I happened to hit a pretty decent drive (you can see mine and Mike's at the bottom left of the pic) - it left me with a wedge in - that had to go over the tall Cypress on the left which felt a little "overcrowded" IMO. I hit it to about 5 feet - so despite what others think it's a darn good hole :P Seriously - it's not a long hole and I think it's detractors should take that into consideration before damning it.
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Thanks for sharing the photos and your thoughts, Kevin.
I really like your first pic. That view of the 16th from behind the clubhouse really gets the goosebumps started.
John
Funny you should say that - it did give me a chill down the spine. I reckon I could spend all day sitting on the CPC balcony overlooking that view....
You forgot to mention that it was windy that day ...
Mike
Indeed it was windy - so much so that many of the flags were wrapped in rubber bands (eg: 13 and 16) given how exposed they were.
Playing at a seaside course for most of my life - I'm used to the wind though - surely you could tell from my ball flight ;)
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Thank you Kevin.
What was your favorite hole?
What shocked you most about the course?
How did the inland holes compare to what you thought they would be prior to your round?
What was your favorite par-5?
Did you go for 9?
Kevin, thanks for sharing. Its fun to hear about people's rounds out there. For such a revered course, I found the atmosphere very warm and friendly. The pro shop staff, and head pro Mr. Reamer are all great guys and really friendly. Everything there is perfect. I'm glad to hear you loved it, then again I might be worrying about you if you hadn't! Thanks again for sharing!!
Cheers,
Jordan
ps did you get a chance to try the oatmeal raisin cookies in the shack left of 11?
Jordan
Favourite hole ?
I find it hard to go past # 16 - particulalry after knocking driver onto the back right corner of the green ;D
Shocked me ?
How the fact that 17mile drive literally goes past the front door.
How did the inland holes compare to what you thought they would be prior to your round?
It's hard to comprehend that only 3 holes play along the ocean front. It's amazing when compared to PB when there's 4 through 10 + 18 - that's nearly half it's holes !! Whilst I somewhat like PB - I wonder what Mackenzie could have done to that course.....
Anyway - the inland holes have wonderful topography changes - yes the Ocean holes provides an amazing backdrop but the way Mackenzie has used the white dunes and bunkering I hope my photos show their great visual appeal as well. 6 through 9 is an amazing run of inland holes. He is so good at subtelty it's scary.
Favorite P5 ?
#6 - the drive calls for the draw and the way with which you think it's easy to get home in two but the "hanging lie" makes things exponentially more difficult.
Did you go for 9?
It reminds me so much of #10 RMW to which I never use driver. I use driver most places (and have even done so at #9 at Kingston Heath :P) and had a crack. I play with a draw so pretty much was able to take the right hand side out of play. It's quite narrow and in hindsight I'd probably use an iron instead. The green is so narrow and so quick it's best to some in from the right side.
The staff ?
Agree - are great they make you feel like a member for the day. The pro shop staff were very accommodating.
ps did you get a chance to try the oatmeal raisin cookies in the shack left of 11?
Of course - it's not like me to pass up an opportunity re: food (as Kevin Reilly will attest to). I grabebd some for the group but for some reason my playing partners didn't want any. I dutifuly obliged in finishing them off for them ;D
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Kevin,
Thanks for sharing.
I agree the bunkering and its camo effect are brilliant, as is Mackenzie's ability to produce subtlety. I don't know if you got a chance to see, but the sixth and eleventh greens are his best uses of subtlety on the course, in my opinion.
Glad to hear about the cookies. There should never be any leftovers of those guys ;D
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What was the condition of the greens? Did you see any effect of the nemitode?
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Kevin,
Thanks for the photo tour as well as your other recent tours. However....this tour, by far, takes the cake as the sexiest!! ;D The photo that you took on #9 tee is my favorite of the bunch.
What line did you take off #17 tee and what was your result?
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Kevin,
Thanks a lot for posting these. Besides the 16th/17th, you really do not get too many public views of the golf course. As a student of design, I really appreciate being able to see and start to understand the rest of the course. Great quality shots, btw. My favorite is the 9th for its bunker scheme and the way it transitions into the dune--brilliant.
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Kevin,
I got a thrill just looking at the pics. It must have been one of the days of your life. How would you describe the feeling leaving the property at the end of the day?
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Hey Scott,
The "Freemasonary of Golf" thingy is copyrighted. Strong letter demanding huge damages to follow. :)
Bob
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Kevin:
Thanks for posting. I do not remember seeing a hole by hole of the course before so I really enjoyed yours.
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I agree the bunkering and its camo effect are brilliant, as is Mackenzie's ability to produce subtlety. I don't know if you got a chance to see, but the sixth and eleventh greens are his best uses of subtlety on the course, in my opinion.
Jordan
A few questions back at you - if I may:
What is your favourite hole ?
What is your favourite sequence of holes ?
What is your favourite P5?
How many balls did you see in your time there end up in the back bunker on # 16 ?
What was the condition of the greens? Did you see any effect of the nemitode?
Joel
It was late Oct and the greens were superb. They were every bit as good at those at Shinnecock / Fishers Island - probably the truest I putted on all trip
Kevin,
What line did you take off #17 tee and what was your result?
Jonathan
The photo is looking down on #13 and #14
I took driver and aimed at the trees - will my draw I wasn't worried about hitting one dead straight. ;) I think we were playing downwind that day and if one is too far back - you have a very difficult shot over the Cypress'.
My playing partners may correct me but I dont recall anyone taking the significant riskier right side ?
Kevin,
Thanks a lot for posting these. Besides the 16th/17th, you really do not get too many public views of the golf course. As a student of design, I really appreciate being able to see and start to understand the rest of the course. Great quality shots, btw. My favorite is the 9th for its bunker scheme and the way it transitions into the dune--brilliant.
Brett
You get a nice view of #13 green / a bit of #14 and most certainly the 1st besides a sneak of the others you mentioned.
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Hey Scott,
The "Freemasonary of Golf" thingy is copyrighted. Strong letter demanding huge damages to follow. :)
Bob
;D Payable in kummel, I hope?
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Bob - I'll expell Scott from Royal Cinque Ports for 24 hours and he can buy me a large kummel as a re admission fee.
Would you believe playing against Cambridge University on Saturday my friend purchased a round of kummels in the halfway hut and one of the uni boys "allegedly" asked for half a kummel. What is the world coming to?
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Kevin,
I got a thrill just looking at the pics. It must have been one of the days of your life. How would you describe the feeling leaving the property at the end of the day?
Scott
It was a golfing highlight not just of the trip but of a lifetime.
Lucky the photos and video I took will keep the memory fresh. I reviewed the later again on the weekend and it picked up a hell of a lot of the wind and crashing of waves. That's the thing about CPC the multitude of elements one experiences: the ambience to start....the cracking of golf balls in the woodland area.....and then the strong crashing of the ocean to finish. It's hard to describe.....
You walk off the 18th green and have that feeling in the pit of your stomach that you just dont want it to end. So - you walk around to the pro shop - have a bit of a spending spree ;D....mingle in the car park as you just dont want to leave !!! As I said - I found it such a moving experience I can only think of my visits to TOC as being on a similar plane.
Solace was taken with lunch with the group at "the hut"...then after bidding my American pals farewell - I decided to quickly head up to Pasatiempo where I was fortunate to slip in a double Mackenzie shot in the PM
Things could have been worse. 8)
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I agree the bunkering and its camo effect are brilliant, as is Mackenzie's ability to produce subtlety. I don't know if you got a chance to see, but the sixth and eleventh greens are his best uses of subtlety on the course, in my opinion.
Jordan
A few questions back at you - if I may:
What is your favourite hole ?
I loved four. It is such a good hole yet so under the radar. I remember thinking it must be a long carry over the left bunker, when in fact you can hit driver easily over them and into those on the right. Its a great hole because if you want the flip wedge in you have to put it through the dry creek bed on the left and bunkers on the right. The green is so good - I've said it before here, but the left side of that green actually breaks toward the back of the green. Crazy!
Loved nine, love the first, and obviously thirteen and the three ocean holes. And twelve as well.
What is your favourite sequence of holes ?
4-5-6 and 12-13-14-15-16-17. 12-13-14 is awesome as a three hole stretch, but does it get better than 15-16-17? Only 6-7-8 at Pebble come close, in my opinion, from the courses I've been fortunate enough to see. 4-5-6 is underrated, as mentioned before with regards to the fourth.
What is your favourite P5?
5. What a great golf hole. I love challenging the bunker on the left and pulling it off, hitting the downslope and having 195ish into the green. The bunkering is fantastic there, and the green is diabolical.
6 is really good as well, but I am long enough where I don't bother going over the bunker on the right. Another great green, though. 10 has an underrated green.
How many balls did you see in your time there end up in the back bunker on # 16 ?
Zilch, nada, zero.
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How many balls did you see in your time there end up in the back bunker on # 16 ?
Zilch, nada, zero.
I've got a photo to prove that it does happen and will post it later.
Short Story (if I can recall correctly):
I've teed off first and hit a career driver over the ocean with my draw and onto the back of the green. I dont carry a 3W so driver was the only option for me and we had a pretty strong cross breeze blowing.
Mike B steps up next - he's been hitting them pretty good all day and is tossing and turning as to what to hit.
He asks his caddy "Will I go over the back with a 3W ?"
Caddy "I've been caddying here for over 20 years and I have never had to rake the back bunkers. Never."
Mike B then selects said 3W and hits a pure shot dead straight at the flag. We all see it land on the green and bounce through to the back left bunker.
Silence.......
Mike B hands his club over - a short look is all he gives......
Sean and Steve then go for it as well but dont quite pull it off.
We troop off - Mikes caddie is sauntering well behind.
We get to the green Mike flops his bunker shot onto the green and picks up the rake and rakes the bunker himself muttering under his breath:
"And you still haven't had to rake them - cause I've done it for you......"
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Thanks for sharing. These bring back great memories from my one time there.
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Kevin,
As a former caddie myself, that story just makes me cringe in pain. I personally cannot stand making a wrong decision with my golfer--it wrenches me emotionally. But then to make tactical errors right after (slowfoot and not raking), I might as well have just stepped off into the Pacific. Maybe that caddie just didn't care, but that is no way to represent your club or earn your tip. Yeesh
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Lucky the photos .... I took will keep the memory fresh. ......... That's the thing about CPC the multitude of elements one experiences: the ambience to start....the cracking of golf balls in the woodland area.....and then the strong crashing of the ocean to finish. It's hard to describe.....
You walk off the 18th green and have that feeling in the pit of your stomach that you just dont want it to end. So - you walk around to the pro shop - have a bit of a spending spree ;D....mingle in the car park as you just dont want to leave !!! As I said - I found it such a moving experience I can only think of my visits to TOC as being on a similar plane.
+1
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So, who's in charge of setting up the next King's Putter at Cypress? ::)
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Kevin,
As a former caddie myself, that story just makes me cringe in pain. I personally cannot stand making a wrong decision with my golfer--it wrenches me emotionally. But then to make tactical errors right after (slowfoot and not raking), I might as well have just stepped off into the Pacific. Maybe that caddie just didn't care, but that is no way to represent your club or earn your tip. Yeesh
Brett
I'm sure Mike saw the funny side of things and purposely raked the bunker ;D
I cant recall the name of the caddie I had but he was brilliant. His reading of the greens was superb and was telling me to hit it to breaks and areas to which visually in my mind at least - weren't there.
I had issues with photobucket last night and couldn't download the pic. but to add another story of the day.
As we were walking off the 16th green to the 17th tee the group behind us teed of and a ball went left down into the rocky beach inlet just to the left of the 16th. Divine intervention insued and it took a "miracle" bounce up out of the chasm and onto the left of the green.
I tell you that place has religious undertones.
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Kevin,
As a former caddie myself, that story just makes me cringe in pain. I personally cannot stand making a wrong decision with my golfer--it wrenches me emotionally. But then to make tactical errors right after (slowfoot and not raking), I might as well have just stepped off into the Pacific. Maybe that caddie just didn't care, but that is no way to represent your club or earn your tip. Yeesh
I had an irritating experience with my caddy too, but my fault for being a hack!
This was my first time on the course and the wind was blowing hard straight in off the ocean. My most prevalent shape with the driver is a bit of a fade. On the 16th tee the caddy hands me the driver and, although I didn't notice, took off around the inlet toward the green. I hit two fairly solid drivers but neither carried the drink. I look around to ask for a four iron and another ball so i can lay up and at least finish the hole - and he's gone!
So I just stroll on around and calm down.
After we finish he switches my clubs back into my own bag - the caddies there like to switch into their single strap bags and lighten up too - and he loses my putter.
Other than those situations he was fine. :( But he was one hell of a green reader, gave me a read on #4 that I still don't believe but made from 20 feet, a rainbow!
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Bill
How did you go with the fade on 17 ?
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Words fail me.....breathtaking.
Thanks for sharing...and...one day...
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Bill
How did you go with the fade on 17 ?
I have never played anywhere but way left on #17,. so it was almost down wind and worked out fine.
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Kevin,
I came back to the site this morning for a second look at your photos. Yep, the course still looks magnificent. Thanks for sharing your experience.
And you played Pasatiempo in the afternoon? Suh-weet.
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Here's the photo to prove the back bunkers are in play off the tee :D
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/CPC/CPCBackbunker.jpg)
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Hmmm, not bad. ;D What an amazing golf course.
Kevin, what was your favorite hole of each section of the course? Dunes, Forest, Ocean..
Pup
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Michael
9th = dunes
4th = woodland
16th (of course) = ocean
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Pebble Beach (PB) is Monterey’s famed public access course and as it’s only a short distance from Cypress Point on 17-mile drive its hard not to draw comparisons. Whilst CP stirred my emotions like few others - PB did not. Maybe it’s a bit like comparing apples and oranges ? I don’t know - I just don’t get the “love affair” with PB as after all someone once told me: “looks aren’t everything”.
Numerous times I was asked throughout my trip whether I was seeing PB - and numerous times I said I was - but only to see if my initial thoughts on it some ten years ago were going to be altered. They weren’t.
I just don’t understand what all the adoration is for ? Yes – it has some great iconic visuals and the stretch of holes along its coastline are certainly “world famous”. But after say # 6 through # 10 and # 18 which in my mind are easily the best collection of holes on the property: particularly in light of the diverse array of shots one is asked to play - are the other holes really “that great” ? As I said recently on another thread I started: especially when it is considered by many including Golf Magazine as among the Ten best courses in the World ?
I certainly don’t think it deserves to belong in such exalted company particularly given the quality of modern courses having been built over the years: Sand Hills / Pacific Dunes to name but two and also those great courses outside the US that are IMO underappreciated eg: Royal Melbourne (Composite) and Royal Dornoch - most significantly.
Don’t get me wrong there is nothing outlandishly “bad” there – it’s just that the “highs” are certainly offset by some “lows” eg: 1 / 5 / 11 / 15 to name but a few.
Its extravagant price tag of US$500 to play it is unbelievable when considering others that I paid on my trip or have paid in my lifetime. Each is to their own as far as “value” goes but if one is asked to part with $220 to play Pacific Dunes v $500 to play Pebble Beach – I know which one I’d plum for.
Holes I noted:
6th = (P5: 500yds) is a hole whose topography change needs to be seen to be believed. After a pretty innocuous drive with the best option to drive as close as possible to the bunkers on the left the fairway then rises sharply and narrows significantly. The 2nd shot landing zone is blind with the lone tree in the distance on the walk giving an indication of where the green is situated. One has to be particularly conscious of a long narrowing fairway bunker left and the ever-present ocean right.
Walk down fairway:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/6a.jpg)
Looking back:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/6c.jpg)
Approach to the green:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/6d.jpg)
7th = (P3: 106yds) is a fantastic little short hole on a promontory. The wind factor is the biggest element here - that and taking into account the distance control required on such a dramatic downhill drop-off hole.
Modern:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/7a.jpg)
Historic: (located inside the clubhouse – not sure when ? Egan’s ?)
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/7j.jpg)
8th = (P4: 416 yds) is a blind drive with a rock marking the centre of the fairway. This hole is all about the 2nd shot with a sharp drop off over a cliff to a small target with the green set at a very oblique angle and well protected by bunkers.
This may be the best three hole stretch I’ve ever seen particularly when combining the setting with the variety in the design.
Approach:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/8c.jpg)
Looking back:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/8m.jpg)
9th = (P4: 462yds) whilst not as dramatic as its predecessor this hole has its strength in the angle of the shot into the green with a large bunker protecting the direct line to a small target.
Significant fairway cant:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/9a.jpg)
Greensite:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/9e.jpg)
10th = (P4: 430yds) the run of cliff top holes concludes with a somewhat similar length hole to # 9. This hole has a significant slope that one can take advantage off the tee by driving it close to the bunkers and kicking it down the hill. The green is set at the far corner of the property flanked by bunkers and Carmel beach.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/10a.jpg)
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/10e.jpg)
17th = (P3: 208 yds) this hole has been lauded by some as one of the best long P3’s going around. I think it doesn’t deserve such praise. The green is way too narrow at its centre for such a long shot IMO. Surely the green could be extended to the bunkers and make the target much more accessible. I would gladly play: 16 RMW / 16 Cypress Point over it for starters. The drive is bland to say the least and for mine it’s more of a connector hole to get to the 18th tee.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/17a.jpg)
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/17d.jpg)
18th = (P5: 543 yds) PB certainly finishes off in style with a long P5 that bends around the cove. The trees in the fairway and next to the green make for some interesting ever-present obstacles.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/18b.jpg)
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/PB/18g.jpg)
For mine PB, has some great “highs” but the juxtaposition of that is that is has some real “lows” as well most notably the first few holes where you could think you are anywhere but at the Monterey Peninsula.
That said – others may find the overall feeling of PB well outweighs the sum of the individual parts and that’s one’s prerogative. I said on another thread – if given a choice I would gladly plum for CP over it and I fail to understand how some think it deserves a spot among the Top half dozen in the USA let alone the Top Ten in the world !!
Case in point – in the recent GM World Top100 the following courses from the US were listed behind it:
- Merion (East)
- Sand Hills
- National Golf Links of America
- Pacific Dunes
- Fishers Island
If someone can tell me why PB is better than any of the above I would be keen to hear why ?
PB is a very good course – and it’s obviously iconic but does it belong among the “very best” ? Certainly I am one who thinks not.
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Hey, California guys, this critic thinks he can come back here, what say you? :D
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Bob
Is PB a "sacred cow" ? :-X
I've got Monterey Peninsula Country Club next :P
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That said – others may find the overall feeling of PB well outweighs the sum of the individual parts and that’s one’s prerogative. I said on another thread – if given a choice I would gladly plum for CP over it and I fail to understand how some think it deserves a spot among the Top half dozen in the USA let alone the Top Ten in the world !!
Case in point – in the recent GM World Top100 the following courses from the US were listed behind it:
- Merion (East)
- Sand Hills
- National Golf Links of America
- Pacific Dunes
- Fishers Island
If someone can tell me why PB is better than any of the above I would be keen to hear why ?
PB is a very good course – and it’s obviously iconic but does it belong among the “very best” ? Certainly I am one who thinks not.
When I hear a guy like Jack Niklaus say that if if he had only one play left that it would be at Pebble that goes a long way for me. He aint just sayin it because he's won there as he's won everywhere...
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Bob
Is PB a "sacred cow" ? :-X
I've got Monterey Peninsula Country Club next :P
Oops, I had better be quiet for a while.
Bob
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Kevin - There are plenty of folks on here that can tell you why Pebble is superior to Pacific Dunes and Sand Hills and lots of other modern courses... but you don't have to believe them and neither do I.
The funny thing is that those people always somehow end up calling this "Pebble bashing" even though that couldn't be farther from the truth. I like the course a lot. I've just seen several courses in the states I like better.
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Tim
Eloquently put. PB as you say is a very good course - just not as "great" as some others I saw in the USA and the rest of my travels.
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When I hear a guy like Jack Niklaus say that if if he had only one play left that it would be at Pebble that goes a long way for me. He aint just sayin it because he's won there as he's won everywhere...
The funny thing about that is that Jack basically never plays golf anymore. Only when required at course openings, as I understand it. He just doesn't like it much without the competition.
So I believe we need to consider Jack's statements about golf courses through that prism: he was/is a competitive golfer.
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The contrast between current #7 and the picture of old #7 is quite interesting. I wonder if they've ever contemplated bringing the more "dunesy" look back -- or if they even could.
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Great pics Kevin.
When I was a kid I caddied for somene who has become a very good friend. I have visited the Penninsula 3 times and never played PB. Dont get me wrong I would love to but he just wont let me and I wont..ok, cant pay the $500!
He has taken my onto Spy which i thought was good and probably one of the harder courses I have played. In relation to the others kind of like the Jubilee in its status in St. A.
He also managed to get me on CPC which I will be forever grateful for. You know who you are big guy! Legend.
My point being if someone who lived there and worked in golf recommends a couple of courses in the same area over PB can it be 'all that?' From what I have seen I would have to still say yes - who cant be sold by all that cobalt ocean and contrasting bunkering and fairways?
Do you think some of the detractors have an axe to grind due to the price? I'm on the fence so thats a completely open question.
Oh, and I agree on 17. It doesnt do it for me either.
My only genuine gripe- links is not green!! I would love to see them turn the sprinklers off 2 weeks before the US Open and see the ball react like it should on fairways like 9. 12 under...I think not.
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Call Pebble Beach not as great as any Kevin mentioned, and that's no huge statement... those are among the very cream of the crop of courses in our country.
Say it doesn't belong in top 50, 100, whatever (as some have) and that is Pebble-bashing.
So it's all a matter of degree.
I personally do put it quite near the top - certainly higher than Kevin or Tim Bert would - but heck, it's all personal preference. I can live with it being on a par with or below the ones he mentioned. To each his own.
TH
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Tom
I think we agree here even though we personally would place Pebble in a different spot. To say Pebble isn't top 100 US or world is pretty crazy. The stretch of 4 to 10 alone is so off the charts good that even if you buy into the notion that the inland holes aren't good you have to put it up there.
To say that it isn't top 10 or even 25 to me is more of a matter of personal preference and not bashing.
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Tom
I think we agree here even though we personally would place Pebble in a different spot. To say Pebble isn't top 100 US or world is pretty crazy. The stretch of 4 to 10 alone is so off the charts good that even if you buy into the notion that the inland holes aren't good you have to put it up there.
To say that it isn't top 10 or even 25 to me is more of a matter of personal preference and not bashing.
Exactly. However get it down toward 25 and one start's to question the standards. ;D
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Jack Nicklaus reiterated his feelings(and mine) again this weekend when he said "If I have one round left to play it would be on Pebble Beach." I have't played Cypress Pt yet but given that same question I would still say Pebble even if it meant never playing Cypress.
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Monterey Peninsula Country Club (MPCC) is a club whose two courses I must admit that I had not seen nor heard much about prior to being given the offer to see by a kind host whilst in the Monterey region.
Most of the talk of the Monterey golf courses abroad - from my experience at least - centre primarily around Cypress Point, Pebble Beach and then to a lesser extent: Spyglass Hill. I was in for a pleasant surprise with regard to MPCC - it is every bit as good (if not better ?) than Spyglass Hill IMO - particularly for its “playability” aspect.
If I have my history right – MP Dunes course was laid out originally by Raynor and completed by Hunter. Rees Jones then did alterations in the late 1990’s. The MP Shore course was laid out originally by Baldock in the 1960’s and redeveloped by Mike Strantz in 2003. The layouts are somewhat similar in that they start and end in the high woodland areas of the property but the Shore has more holes along the exposed ocean area of land.
The topography changes at the start and end of each course are amazing contrasts and its interesting how one traverses from atop the hillside down to the dunes only to then climb back to the clubhouse to finish - one could keep very fit playing around the layouts at MPCC.
The AT&T PB Pro-Am was played at “The Shore” recently - replacing Poppy Hills on the rota and by all reports from what I have read was well received. No wonder – it’s a good course and well worth playing if one gets an opportunity to do so.
Holes I noted (Shore course):
6th = (P5: 548yds) is a double dogleg that swings significantly to the right and whose green is set nearby the 11th hole. The player has to avoid the fairway traps that are set on the insides of each of the doglegs. The green itself is by no means a push-over with at least three tiers in it and is quick to putt on.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/6b.jpg)
9th = (P3: 224yds) is a very good and testing long P3. The green has a large entrance and also a wicked step in it. Any putt from the upper shelf to the lower one needs more than a prayer in an attempt to slow it down.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/9a.jpg)
10th = (P5: 541yds) is another twisting and turning P5 that swings around to the left only to move slightly to the right at its very end. The green is situated in a bowl in the dunes and has a significant back to front slope in it and is fronted by a lone bunker.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/10c.jpg)
11th = (P3: 181yds) is a very picturesque P3 that provides a wonderful vista of the layout and Monterey Peninsula coastline. Set atop a rocky outcrop one hits down to a kidney shaped green that is well protected by bunkers and has a significant middle ridge running through it.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/11a.jpg)
12th = (P5: 599yds) finishes off a great 3-5-3-5 sequence of holes and has this time has only a small amount of directional movement in the fairway. With a creek traversing the fairway off the tee one has to be careful with their club choice. The hole narrows as one gets closer to the green and again it is quite tricky to putt on.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/12a.jpg)
13th = (P4: 434yds) was one of my favourite holes on the course. I love how the hole narrows and the bunkering by Strantz is superb. The green also has a significant back to front slope and with CPC in the background what a wonderful frame it provides.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/13a.jpg)
15th = (P4: 415yds) is another simple yet beautiful hole. This hole has a severe dogleg to the left off the tee and if one is brave and long enough they may try and take the trees and bunkers on. The penalty for coming up short or going left is severe. One can take the easier route out to the right but then has a longer and more difficult shot in as the green is well protected by bunkers from that angle.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/MPCC/15b.jpg)
The Shore course was a delight to play and I am surprised that its overall quality hasn’t been publicised moreso. Being a private club has something to do with it I am sure - but mechanisms like the AT&T hopefully are able to bring it more acclaim to which it richly deserves.
The stretch of holes from the 5th to the 16th were a blast and whilst I found the holes closer to the clubhouse less appealing they each had their own unique qualities and weren’t any less enjoyable to play.
After CPC and PB I think MPCC deserves to tussle Spyglass as the next best course to play if on the Monterey Peninsula. Certainly, Spyglass Hill is harder than MPCC though I’m not one that prescribes to the notion of “difficulty” being directly proportional to quality. Strantz’s design was an absolute joy to play and I think the members at MPCC are very lucky indeed to have two quality courses to choose from.
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Kevin,
I think this is a superb golf course, with the strength overall being in the par 3's and fives. That is not to say anything negative about the par fours.
Overall a terrific course. Spyglass is the bigger challenge but if you incorporate the setting then they are very close and it gets down to personal preferance.
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Thanks Kevin, it brought a little sunshine into this winter.
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Kevin,
I think this is a superb golf course, with the strength overall being in the par 3's and fives. That is not to say anything negative about the par fours.
Ash
The P5's in particular were the real standout for mine - such an array of variety within them.
I had a look around the Dunes course while there (it was closed for coring) and think I may have preferred the Shore over it. I wonder what others think about the two ?
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Kevin,
I think this is a superb golf course, with the strength overall being in the par 3's and fives. That is not to say anything negative about the par fours.
Ash
The P5's in particular were the real standout for mine - such an array of variety within them.
I had a look around the Dunes course while there (it was closed for coring) and think I may have preferred the Shore over it. I wonder what others think about the two ?
Both are very great golf courses, so it's really nitpicking. But such is the coin of the realm in here.
Most do favor Shore, particularly those who have played each course but once (or not at all), or are Strantz devotees in general.
Those who have played each course many times seem to favor Dunes. Ask Mr. Huntley his opinion. For a long time it just seemed to be he and very few of us others favoring Dunes... but a groundswell has also occurred in recent times... more are seeing the light.
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Tom,
I would love to have a look at the Dunes course. Perhaps on my next trip to California ;D.
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Is the Monterey Peninsular the strongest area on the planet for concentration of world class golf courses? If not where equals or betters it?
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Mark
Long Island (NGLA / Shinnecock / Sebonack and potentially Southampton ?) + the Heathbelt (Swinley / Berkshire / Sunningdale) + Sandbelt (RM + KH + Vic etc) perhaps are in the discussion as well ?
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... into the back left bunker.
Silence.......
Mike B hands his club over - a short look is all he gives......
"And you still haven't had to rake them - cause I've done it for you......"
Look at it this way, I brought joy to an old man ... I put a smile on his face ... and gave him a story that he can tell countless times at the caddie shack ...
He should have tipped me ...
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Kevin,
I hope you have photos of MPCC Dunes as well. I loved the course (probably prefer it to the Shore), but my camera settings were off and all my photos are way too small.
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John
I have a few - I'll post them when I get the chance
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Kevin,
Also if you have any photos of the 3rd at PB, I'd like it if you could post them up.
Pup
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I'm late to comment on CPC, but WOW! Great pics - I think you really captured the feel/environment (but I'm guessing on that because I haven't played it). Also great shots of MPCC. Thanks for posting them.
I wonder if you have back or hip pain though? It seems your right leg is quite a bit shorter than your left...either that, or you need to pay more attention to the horizon when taking your pics! :) Sorry for the poor attempt at humor, you got some great shots of all the courses.
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VERY late but had to share a quick story of my first trip to CP. I was fortunate enough to play it twice during the summer I worked as an assistant at Carmel Valley Ranch in 2005. The first 10 minutes on the property I spent eating a delicious piece of fresh lemon meringue pie at the "employee dining table" (with 6 chairs looking straight out at #16 green!). Then, probably also unique to the world of golf, I hit a perfect tee shot on #1 just over the right clump of cypress trees. I asked my host if that was OK. He said, "as long as it is not a Strata." I didn't understand until I realized crossing over 17-mile drive that there were a hundred or so brand new Stratas in the first fairway (with the tiny practice range just to the right)! Luckily, I found my Titleist within a few minutes and went on to have the greatest golfing experience of my life! Being an ex-Catholic, I would describe a round at CP as spiritual rather than religious. Deeply spiritual!
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John
Since the thread has been resurrected - backtracking a little bit ;) here's a couple I took
13
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/GCA/D13a.jpg)
15
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/GCA/D15.jpg)
16
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/kpallier23/GCA/D16.jpg)
though Mike Benham did a great thread on MPCC Dunes
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43910.0.html
Pup
To see more of the 3rd via a quick search on GCA
Will Peterson (4th photo through 8th)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48461.0.html
Adam Claymans (3rd hole Bunker Discussion)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44679.0.html
Will
Ex-Catholic ? Either way CPC is a special place..
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Kevin,
It was fun to look through your pictures again. You took some exceptional pix, particularly at Pebble with that morning light and the mist.
I hope your winter is allowing for a little golf now and again.
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Ed,
Another glorious, sunny 16C (62F) day in the death of winter here... Life's tough.
(of course KP is 40mins south of me, but I'm guessing there's no localised poor weather in Wollongong).
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Hi Ed
Great to hear from you and it was nice to have a stroll down memory lane - I presume you are enjoying some golf during the summer ?
I am playing a little bit less as I watch my son play football most weekends through winter but still get out for the odd game. Scott alludes to the fairly decent weather we are having though that said it's blowing a gale today and reminds me of the strong winds I experienced during my time in the USA.