Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 09:33:29 AM

Title: Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 09:33:29 AM
I was lucky enough to play a round there recently on a peerless Sunday afternoon. I had walked around during the Open and played there a decade ago, but had quite forgotten what a wonderful course (and place) it is. To have that course to yourself on a fine day is really to be privileged.

I was most struck by the extent of the undulations in some of the fairways and greens, the overall scale of the place - and the sense of calm. Truly golf at its best.

Here are a few pictures - a bit front-end loaded as light deteriorated a bit in the afternoon.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00859.jpg)

The approach to the first - I love the way the bunkers look at you like cat's eyes, with the distinctive flag just evident right centre, and partially blind.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00862.jpg)

The approach to second - the dog-leg left, two shotter, slightly uphill.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00864.jpg)

This shot gives you a sense of the feel and scale of the course
I think it is the eight green.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00865.jpg)

The long par three third, about 215 yards to two tier green that narrows at the back. Depending on the wind, of course, the 11th is even longer. You can see the famous dunes on the fourth in the background.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00866.jpg)

Another "feel of the course" shot - i think this is back of the third green.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00868.jpg)

The approach to the fourth - a great example of the undulation you encounter.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00870.jpg)

The fourth green with the severe slope on the left....


(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00871.jpg)

Tee shot on five takes you towards the sea, with the green sheltered out of sight behind the dunes in the distance.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00873.jpg)

Semi-blind approach to fifth after a good drive

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00875.jpg)

The short sixth...

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00876.jpg)

The drive on seven is blind - when you cross the brow you find the hole sweeps away to your left.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00877.jpg)

 A view of the green on eight - one of the best holes on the course, and also blind off the tee, but difficult to photo into the sun!

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00878.jpg)

Tee shot on nine - a short two-shotter that turns to the right. Safe play is short and left of the traps.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00880.jpg)

Approach to nine from left of the fairway.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00881.jpg)

View from the side of the 9th green which shows that it is not so simple to hit this target once you have cleared the front bunkers.

Second nine photos to follow....
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: JLahrman on October 22, 2007, 09:48:17 AM
For all the bad-mouthing this course seemed to take in 2003 for being fluky (whatever that means) it sure looks like it would be a ton of fun to play from these pictures.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 10:28:14 AM
Fluky means that pro's who like all the course in front of their eyes - and who lack the nous to adapt to conditions - did not like it. To others that ought almost to be a recommendation. I have not had a lot of golfing experiences I would place above this.

Here are some more pics.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00882.jpg)

The famous 10th with its skyline green.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00883.jpg)

 A look at the 10th from the right - not the main highway to the hole!

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00885.jpg)

The long "short" eleventh - played about 230 yards.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00886.jpg)

Tee shot on the excellent 12th where the spine running across the fairway helps dictate strategy. You can see the flag to the right of the right hand bunker as the hole moves sharply right.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00888.jpg)

A view of the approach to 12

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00890.jpg)

12th green

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00891.jpg)

View from the left of the 13th fairway. I think that is the old Princes clubhouse in the background where the two properties meet.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00895.jpg)

The 15th green. Light was poor so no photo of 14 with the Suez canal - a much prettier piece of water than some of the famous Scottish burns!

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00897.jpg)

Tee shot to the short 16th - the very prominent bunkering feels a  little out of character compared to what has gone before.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00899.jpg)

The bunker where Thomas Bjorn is buried! You can see very clearly the shelf he tried and failed to carry, twice.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00900.jpg)

The approach on 17 - another muscular uphill par four.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00901.jpg)

A view across to the clubhouse and starting area.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/pgawith/royal%20st%20georges/DSC00902.jpg)

Cross bunkers on the 18th - which are driveable if you hit a good tee ball. Not one of the most inspiring holes on the course, but quite tricky when you get up close to the green and played hard in the Open because the set up meant few were hitting the fairway.

Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Ed Tilley on October 22, 2007, 10:58:30 AM
Philip,

Great photos of a wonderful course.

The 14th from last November:

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/royal%20st%20georges/P1010356.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/royal%20st%20georges/P1010357.jpg)

Drive and approach on no.8

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/royal%20st%20georges/P1010338.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/royal%20st%20georges/P1010340.jpg)

Ed
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Trey Kemp on October 22, 2007, 11:08:43 AM
Great Pictures, thanks!
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 11:37:25 AM
Thanks for filling in the gaps Ed. You were also blessed with the weather! Both those holes are real landmarks on the course.

I should have commented on the routing - another feature of the course which points at just about every angle on the compass, and seldom heads in the same direction for long.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: John Mayhugh on October 22, 2007, 12:30:54 PM
Some great pictures.   I love that fairway spine on 12.

This one is moving higher up my "must play soon" list.  Were you the only person out there?
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Steve Kline on October 22, 2007, 12:39:51 PM
The 4th tee shot at Bandon Trails looks to be almost a carbon copy of the 12th tee shot here.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 01:13:59 PM
We were just about the only ones out there John. I think I saw one other couple playing. I think there are few visitors at the best of times and members don't really play then (I don't think it has too many local members) so the combination means it is quiet then (and the day we were there was the Autumn meeting! I think most golfers play early so they can settle down to a decent lunch).
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Dan Smoot on October 22, 2007, 01:27:02 PM
I just love the pictures .  No smooth contours.  I have become addicted to courses that stand alone from the norm and have movement in the ground and the game can be played along the ground.  It is why I love places like Bandon, Wildhorse(NE), Rawls Course(fabricated but natural), Black Mesa, Rustic Canyon and others.  A dream trip for me would be GB&I.  
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 22, 2007, 01:38:42 PM
It is a great piece of land Dan - time you got over here since there is much else besides, though not so much in the class of St George's! There are also some nice surprises on the continent - keep your eyes open for some pictures on Dutch courses like Hague, Kennemer and Noordwijk.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: tlavin on October 22, 2007, 03:15:47 PM
What a beautiful looking course!  Even the presence of the power plant and the housing doesn't detract from the dynamic landforms and the plethora of angles and hillocks.  It's on my list to play.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Brent Hutto on October 22, 2007, 03:25:48 PM
It is indeed a beautiful looking course. I'll tell you what else is beautiful about Royal St. George's. When there's a fair breeze blowing the sound of the wind through the tall grass is a beautiful sound. It sounds like golf, the memory of that sound is very evocative for me personally.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Jason Topp on October 22, 2007, 03:38:35 PM
Phillip:

I really enjoy and look forward to your pitcures.  

Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: George Pazin on October 22, 2007, 04:59:44 PM
Phenomenal photos, thanks for sharing them.

* addendum - I was puzzled recently when Matthew Hunt posted the thread about slam dunk courses and Sandwich didn't really get much support (I think only Sean mentioned it). After these photos I'm even more confused!
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Sean_A on October 22, 2007, 05:06:04 PM
Philip

You are a proper chap - thanks for posting.  Sandwich is hands down my favourite Open course.  

Ciao
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Mark Bourgeois on October 22, 2007, 08:32:11 PM
Well done, Philip.

Who can tell us of MacKenzie's work there? Does it show in any of the pictures?

Many thanks,
Mark
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 23, 2007, 03:18:31 AM
Thanks for kind words gents. The good news is that there is more to come! About another six courses in fact, judiciously spread out, of course!

Thanks to Brent for bringing some poetry to GCA! I think I know what you mean. If it was the "noise" that struck you, it was the peace and the scale that struck me - but all part of the same phenomenon of feeling very good on a fine golf course on a fine day!

To Mark - I did not know that MacKenzie had a hand there. I was in the company of GMBF discussing the course with a distinguished member of the club and I do not remember his name coming up - but I have a very fallible memory.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Dan Moore on October 23, 2007, 10:07:44 AM
Where do I send my deposit for the Sandwich/Deal 2009 Buda Cup?   ;D

Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Mark Bourgeois on October 23, 2007, 10:18:26 AM
Philip,

What were you doing out there, playing golf? One change MacKenzie made was to the 6th, the Maiden Hole.  He moved the green to the right. The old green involved a blind tee shot over an imposing bunker.

That's one I've managed to dig up. If you've the time to gallivant across the Continent surely you can tell us what else!

Mark
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 23, 2007, 11:23:29 AM
Mark, one gets confused with all these blind holes being moved! That same morning I was hearing about some similar manouevre at Deal - maybe the 5th hole? - where the hole was moved inter alia because too many people were getting holes in one as caddies put the ball in the hole.

I did know that various changes had taken place at RSG to reduce the number of blind shots - mostly these were done I believe in the run-up to the course getting the Open back after a long hiatus (1949-81). But I did not know Mr Mac was involved!

More to follow re other courses!
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Andrew Mitchell on October 23, 2007, 11:39:49 AM
Philip

Great photographs as ever!  Your pictures always seem to capture the movement in the land and objects such as land contours and bunkers are always clearly defined.  You seem to convey the atmosphere of the course whereas my pictures seem to be holiday snaps in comparison.

Was the pin position on 16 when you played the same as when Bjorn left it in the bunker?  Certainly there doesn't seem to be much room to play with from the top of the ridge.

I've never seen RSG in such detail before.  Based on this I can't wait for the 2009 Buda Cup if Mark Chaplin is able to organise Deal and RSG!
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Brent Hutto on October 23, 2007, 11:52:43 AM
I was puzzled recently when Matthew Hunt posted the thread about slam dunk courses and Sandwich didn't really get much support (I think only Sean mentioned it). After these photos I'm even more confused!

George,

I don't always read the list threads so I didn't see Matthew's but if I would have added to Sean's plaudits for Royal St. George's. As best I can figure, the thing keeping it in some people's doghouse is the tendency of the humpity, bumpity fairways to deflect "good drives" into what can be enormously punishing rough when the course is set up for an Open or Amateur. Make no mistake, balls will be lost at Sandwich...some of them even balls which landed in the middle of the fairway. It is not a particularly fair course.

That said I have now played Royal Birkdale, often held up as exemplary in its "fairness" among Open venues. I haven't actually played Sandwich but have walked it several times watching elite amateur golfers contend with it under Championship conditions in a decent breeze. I have no particular quibble with Birkdale which is a fine course and a pleasure to play. But Royal St. George's is in a whole other league.

At least from the visitor's tees there are numerous shots one faces at Birkdale where a conservative shot can be aimed at a generous flattish spot of fairway and even if off line by 15 yards still have a very straightforward approach. Now that is not to say one will be able to get the approach into a good position for a birdie putt but there seemed little chance of a lost ball or hack-out shot unless you hit a crooked shot or try to cut an angle too closely to the brutal rough (or lateral hazards as I found out a couple of times). The bunkers at Birkdale will gobble up balls and produce tough recovery shots but for elite players I doubt that's a very big deal (my own game to the contrary of course). The day I played there was a prevailing wind of about 15mph that increased to some larger gusts during a rain squall on the back nine.

Under moderate wind conditions during the Amateur I saw some very fine players producing all kinds of excellent golf shots yet hole after hole the marshals (inadequate in number unfortunately) were tramping through the tall grass searching for golf balls. At Birkdale a shot with the right distance and right line may suffice as long as the shot choice is not too aggressive. At Sandwich almost every tee shot needs the right distance, line and shot shape to counter the wind and work into the slope of the fairway. The resulting approach shots will seldom present both stance and lie that are level and while not all of the green complexes are as interesting as those at Birkdale, neither are they are likely to be tilted slightly toward the player. I saw far more beautifully struck irons shots go through the green during the Amateur at Sandwich than I did indifferent shots by a couple of weaker players during my round at Birkdale.

Not having seen as many fine links courses as Sean I can't really say for sure where Royal St. George's fits in the pantheon of great ones. I'm inclined to put it at the very top of the list but it's somewhere in the elite range with absolutely no doubt. It's hard to imagine a more beautiful and relaxing spot to take a drubbing from a difficult course than the links at Sandwich. If you enjoy driving the ball or watching good drivers play demanding tee shots then Sandwich is the place to be. I think the second shots could be a bit less thrilling if it weren't for the tricky fairway contours to make otherwise simple shots into surprisingly tricky ones (as always, amplified expoentially by a significant breeze). The course is well bunkered but the shot difficulty for extracting ones bunkered ball is not that high as long as you don't try something foolish like reaching a green from a fairway bunker with a low-lofted club. And even chipping and putting around the greens sure seemed to be somewhat more difficult than it might appear to a casual observer.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Brent Hutto on October 23, 2007, 11:59:44 AM
Was the pin position on 16 when you played the same as when Bjorn left it in the bunker?  Certainly there doesn't seem to be much room to play with from the top of the ridge.

During practice rounds for the Amateur (where I was a spectator) naturally everyone had to play that Bjorn bunker shot on sixteen. My observation was that getting it out of the bunker and onto the green was bog simple. I saw a dozen or more people play that shot (only one under competitive pressure) and it just did not offer them any difficulty at all.

However, with a Sunday pin placement trying to squeeze the ball to within 3-4 feet of the hole makes for a simple shot that must be played absolutely perfectly with no margin for error. A player of Bjorn's caliber could hit the ball 6-8 feet from the hole the vast majority of the time (assuming a good lie which IIRC he had on the first try) so in my opinion his error was in trying to avoid the pressure of having to make a missable par putt. Some other Open courses have more penal greenside bunkers on average than Royal St. George's and that one on sixteen is far from the toughest on the course. Unless of course you're trying to win your first major championship!
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Ed Tilley on October 23, 2007, 12:44:38 PM
As Brent says, the bunker shot was straightforward. When I played the hole I couldn't believe the series of catastrophic mental mistakes Bjorn made.

If you look at the picture of the hole, it is quite wide and the green is reasonably flat albeit with a big drop right. It is not long - no more than a 7 iron for a pro. It should be a straightforward par. Hit in the left half, 2 putts, walk off with a 2 shot lead.

Bjorn's first mistake was to be aggressive and miss in the one place where everyone knew he shouldn't. He then compounded this error by trying to play the perfect shot. He could have easily left himself a flattish 10 foot putt with no risk. The bunker is flat and in no way menacing - he just had to get it over the ridge.

Of course, it's easy in hindsight when you don't have millions watching on TV and your life's dream within your grasp.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Philip Gawith on October 23, 2007, 01:18:53 PM
Andrew - I am not sure, but I would suspect the pin may ve been closer still than it appears in the picture when the Open was played.

There is nothing to add to what Ed has said in terms of what Bjorn should have done, and the two errors he made - too greedy off the tee, and too ambitious out of the bunker (twice).

To Brent's points re the rough and funny bounces - doubtless everyone remembers that Tiger lost his opening tee shot on the first hole in 2003. Personally I am not sure that is much of a badge of honour!

When we played it the course was still very green following a very wet summer, so some of the fire you would get in a warmer summer was absent. That said, my sense is that the club know that too many pros missed the fairway on 1,17 and 18 during the Open. Next time round I suspect these fairways will be easier to find.

I wonder if he took his lessons from RSG to Hoylake in 2006. Hoylake does not have same undulation that RSG has, but maybe that style of play is what is needed round RSG too if you want to avoid some of the vagaries of the bounce.

All that said - I think focusing on "vagaries of the bounce" is to miss the point. It is a wonderful golf course that does not deserve to be remembered that way - except possibly when the course set up is extreme.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Brent Hutto on October 23, 2007, 01:40:59 PM
Let me add this to my earlier comments. For every "well struck drive" that I saw bounce into the fescue during Amateur week, there were four or five drives that looked good in the air but due to slightly misjudged distance, line and/or wind landed a couple yards into the tall stuff. Having watched a tournament in person I now remember Royal St. George's as a brilliant test of driving your ball whereas after having seen it played only on television my mental image had more to do with bad bounces and so forth.

I think it is hard to tell on television the difference between any old tough, narrow course off the tee versus a comprehensive driving examination such as RsG.
Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Eric Smith on December 03, 2008, 03:30:11 PM

Bump for those interested in traveling to play in BUDA 2009.  Enjoy Philip's photo tour of RSG.


This one is moving higher up my "must play soon" list.

John,

Now on your "will play September" list - congrats.


Title: Re: Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Phil McDade on December 03, 2008, 03:49:26 PM
Nicklaus was fond of saying Open rota courses got better the farther north you traveled, which many took as a slam against Sandwich, the most southerly course in the rota. I can see why Nicklaus -- who liked courses with obvious features and logical outcomes of shots good and bad -- wouldn't care for RSG. Wonderful pics; is the place as "stuffy" as its reputation?

Title: Re: Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Anthony Gray on December 03, 2008, 03:56:30 PM


  I'm not scared.

Title: Re: Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Kevin Pallier on December 03, 2008, 06:18:44 PM
is the place as "stuffy" as its reputation?

Phil

What reputation ? the staff and members seemed nice enough at lunch when I was there with them.

One gentlemen was politely reminded that he needed to put a tie on the the bar afterwards but I dont see any problem with that as after all he was a guest of the club. The staffer then provided the visitor with one from the spares he had for the area.

The history in that room is awesome.
Title: Re: Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Phil McDade on December 03, 2008, 08:50:38 PM
Based on my (admittedly somewhat limited) readings of the Open rota courses, Sandwich has a reputation of being, for lack of a better term, stuffy. It's said to have one of the more distinguished memberships in all of GB.

That's not to suggest I don't enjoy the course from afar. It has a great history, and I'd rather watch an Open at Sandwich than almost any other rota course.

Title: Re:Royal St Georges (pics)
Post by: Andrew Mitchell on December 04, 2008, 04:59:40 AM

Bump for those interested in traveling to play in BUDA 2009.  Enjoy Philip's photo tour of RSG.


This one is moving higher up my "must play soon" list.

John,

Now on your "will play September" list - congrats.




Eric

Thanks for the bump.  I'd forgotten Philip's excellent photo tour which certainly whets the appetite for next September.